View Full Version : Ok problem: Condoms dont work scare

10-09-2002, 01:29 PM
My g/f just phoned me saying we can never have sex because condoms dont work and the pill gives women breast cancer and the morning after pill is like 50 regular \"pills\" and can kill instantly. Bearing in mind she heard this in church (Catholic). No oral either.

WTF? Is there any trouth behind this? Can people post info and links that I can forward to her, \'cos we\'ve already done stuf and I want to put her mind at rest.

My theory is that her church is scaring the girls into doing nothing before marriage or whatever.


10-09-2002, 01:39 PM
1. NO ORAL???? WTF!!!!! STRIKE ONE!!!

2. Condoms aren\'t perfect but they are like 80% effect.

3. There is a alternative to the pill. It is a shot. One shot last a month, and no worrying if she took the damn thing.

Imagine having a car. You are making payments on this car, paying for the insurance, and paying for the upkeep on this car. But you simply cannot drive it. WHY WOULD YOU KEEP THIS CAR? If the chruch thing is true remind her of the child raping fcking priests that they protected.

10-09-2002, 01:41 PM
Ok here is their web site:

www.theparentsnet.co.uk (\"http://www.theparentsnet.co.uk\")

10-09-2002, 01:42 PM
I think somewhere you can email Dr. Drew (from \"Loveline\"), so that might be a good idea. I the best thing to do is do a net search and get info that way. I think if a man does not participate sexually, his risk of prostate cancer INCREASES. Also try condom websites, the major brands should have info as well.

10-09-2002, 01:46 PM
I heard it was something like 97%.

There agument is that HIV viruses are small enough to fit through condoms

10-09-2002, 02:16 PM
<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

I heard it was something like 97%.

There agument is that HIV viruses are small enough to fit through condoms

<hr></blockquote>Both figures are correct. The overall rate of success is in the mid 70%\'s. The rate of success if you actually use the thing properly is almost as high as the pill. Use a foam with it. I was married for 18 years to a woman who couldn\'t use the pill for medical reasons. Condom and foam. But you have to use it absolutely every time without fail.

The argument that HIV (HIV virus is redundant - the V in HIV is for Virus) is small enough to fit through latex is a canard (look it up). Both of you get tested. Both of you be faithful to each other. Presto. No HIV problems with or without a condom.

<a target=\"_blank\" href=http://www.sexuality.org>www.sexuality.org</a> is the place to go find accurate info about sex.

All that said, if she\'s Catholic and actually believes their dogma, it\'s going to be an uphill fight.

10-09-2002, 02:25 PM
What about the pill and morning after stuff?

10-09-2002, 02:46 PM
The pill increases the level of estrogen in the body. Higher levels of estrogen are linked to increased incidences of breast cancer. When yer gf goes to see the doc for the pill, s/he will take a family history. Breast cancer is _very_ genetic. If she has a strong family history of breast cancer, the pill may be contraindicated. Then again, there are low-estrogen pills that may be just fine. But it\'s a conversation your gf should have with her doc, not her priest.

Morning after pill - go look it up for the concentration. 50 sounds high. But it\'s not an efficient means of birth control - it is indeed hard on the body. It\'s really for emergency use - the condom broke while she\'s ovulating - you got drunk and did it without a condom. Rarely if ever needed in a couple that is communicating, I would hope.

It sounds to me like you and your gf need to have a real conversation about sex. What are the benefits - what are the risks. I can tell you that in my experience, a female who has been scared off sex is not going to get unscared because somebody says the words \"I now pronounce you...\" Regardless of your decisions, get talking, find a counselor if that\'s what it takes. Go look at some real sex sites on the web - there is an enormous amount of real information hiding behind the wall of porno. The more the two of you know, the better off you will be.

One more thing - I was raised Catholic. I rebelled early. I have _still_ spent most of my adult life attempting to clear the notion that sex was somehow dirty, corrupt, non-spiritual that my upbringing implanted in me. Sex is an incredible sharing between lovers - as spiritual and genuine a form of expressing the divine as any prayer, as any Mass/Eucharist. Don\'t let them tell you otherwise. Your gf is going to have to process a lot of baggage to make that true for her.

10-09-2002, 03:20 PM
Damn! It seams we\'r still in 1950 in some place of the world...

Anyway, the question now is do you love this girl enough to go through all the *trouble* of trying to have a *normal* sex life with her ?

Good luck to both of you.

10-09-2002, 06:13 PM
Cpt ...no oral?? Why? Because you can get diseases that way, too, I bet. And that\'s true.
First thing to do is what Bassman said and both of you get tested. That should ease some of the pressure. Once she can be sure she\'s not going to catch anything from you, and if you can convince her that you won\'t stray, that should ease a significant bit more.

The shot that was referred to for birth control -- don\'t. Depo Provera is the name of it and it has very serious side effects and takes a long time to get out of your system. Unlike the pill. She should be able to go on a low-dose pill.

The morning after pill should not be an issue. You should have a reliable birth control method in practice. If you do, you won\'t ever need the morning after pill.

I don\'t know why no one mentions the diaphragm anymore. It worked great for me for years, it\'s comfortable, you can put it in a good while before so it doesn\'t interrupt what you\'re doing, and it\'s quite effective ...

Good luck.

10-09-2002, 06:36 PM
hmm didn\'t know that about the shot Thanks FTR. I think her main concern though is birthcontrol as opposed to an STD.

10-09-2002, 06:43 PM
Some women do use it and have no problems, but the pill is the granddaddy of them all as far as chemical means of birth control, it\'s the most tested and the most free of side effects. My roommate used Depo and now has detached retinas - she had to have her retinas stapled, can you imagine? and she still has floaters in her vision and other vision problems directly related to Depo use. Now she can\'t run anymore, because high impact sports of course jog your eyes as well as everything else in your body --which is ironic, because she got on Depo as many athletic females do, because one side effect often is that it stops your periods.

Wasn\'t worth it.

10-09-2002, 08:26 PM
Here are the facts about condom usage and disease prevention:

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite.jsp?doc=2098.32ca (\"http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite.jsp?doc=2098.32ca\")

Highlight: Using a condom is more than 10,000 times safer than not using a condom during intercourse.

If you combine this with an anti-viral lube (the only commonly available one being Astrogel), I think you\'re doing pretty well.

10-10-2002, 07:01 AM
Thanks for everything guys.

She is just generally worried, BC, STD\'s, side effects of the pill/morning after. She once told me she could never take the morning after, because she thinks it is like abortion, and would not consider it in any case. Didn\'t really agree with her, but I\'m respecting that decision.

10-10-2002, 07:02 AM
Respect is a good thing Capt!!!

10-10-2002, 09:01 AM
In the mean time, maybe you can get her to at least spank your monkey? /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

10-10-2002, 09:11 AM
Gerund!!! You\'re such an animal!!! You\'re talking to the Capt right? Because FTR doesn\'t have a monkey!!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif At least I hope not!!!

10-10-2002, 09:13 AM
Of course!

10-10-2002, 09:14 AM
And if it ever turns out that FTR *does* have a monkey, I\'m going to need serious therapy... /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

10-10-2002, 09:16 AM
No, not therapy Gerund...a knife!!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

10-10-2002, 09:19 AM
Everybody\'s got something to hide
Except for me and my monkey...

10-10-2002, 10:29 AM
Her responce:

\"but ther will always b controversy, u just hav 2 decide 4 urself wich side is rite\"


This is soooo frustrating.

Like talking to a brick wall.

Then she started saying how if I took all this trouble finding this out, it must mean a lot to me blah blah:

Her: does it really mean that much 2 u?
Me: wot?
Her: does it matter that much if we dont sleep 2getha?
Me: well no, but i dont like the idea of it being ruled out completely
Me: all forms of sex
Her: then [censored] u
Me: rite
Me: u not hear anything i just said?
Me: u r saying that we cant do anything, and in the long term (yes long term, im not talking next month, or the month after etc) im not looking forward to that
Her: a relationship shud b more than just sex
Me: ours is
Her: but if u dnt c it that way, then ur not worth it
Me: well thats how i see it, from my point of view.
Her: i really thort u wer different 2 other ppl
Me: OMG!
Her: i was obviously wrong
Me: who ses i see our relationship as being just sex?? i said I SEE AT AS NOT SEX, ITS MORE THAN THAT
Her: but u just sed ur not loolking forward 2 the future wivout doing stuff
Me: im saying that hypothetically, cos wot if we r together for another year? u saying we cant do ANYTHING at all?
Her: wud it b that big a deal if i did?
Me: wot is it with u? y is it wrong for me to want to do stuff with you? im not just talkin actual sex, but the other stuff aswell. I understand if u dont want to do that, but u obviously think so badly of me that u dnt think i wud understand, so maybe UR not worth it
Her: its not wrong 4 u 2 want 2 do stuff, all boys do. but i just wanna no that we cud stil b 2getha if we ddnt do stuff.
Her: im not saying we cant do anything, but just nothing wiv a risk
Me: ok
Me: will u read that stuff?
Me: i understand ur worried, and thats justified mostly, but some of the things they told u wer just plain wrong
Her: but ther will always b controversy, u just hav 2 decide 4 urself wich side is rite
Her: i g2g eat, wil b back
Her: soon if ur stil on
Me: or u cud believe the poeple with proof
Me: ok
Me: mite b
Her: these ppl do hav proof
Her: k

I\'m beggining to wonder whether its even worth bothering.

10-10-2002, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Her: but ther will always b controversy, u just hav 2 decide 4 urself wich side is rite

<hr></blockquote>I don\'t get what she means by controversy. Whether sex outside of marriage is ok? That\'s not a controversy, it\'s a religious dogma. You pretty much either believe it is or you don\'t.

The rest of what we said about birth control, AIDS, HIV, getting tested, is not particularly controversial, unless you\'re distorting the answers to support your religious dogma. Go find books. Go find a counselor. There are factual answers to the questions you are asking.

I do mean this in the kindest possible way, and it\'s only one opinion: my read is that this girl is not ready to be in an adult sexual relationship.

The reason I say that is that the response to her argument is: a relationship should indeed be much more than sex; but it\'s sex that fuels the intimacy of a romantic relationship between two adults. Without it you have a friendship... I don\'t think she\'s anywhere near ready to be able to hear that.

10-10-2002, 11:15 AM
Thanks BassMan.

She take is that there will always be two sides of this argument (safe sex and BC), she doesnt seem to be able to make the distinction between fact, opinion, a biased argument, and a load of nonsense (some of those are not mutually exclusive by the way).

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

I do mean this in the kindest possible way, and it\'s only one opinion: my read is that this girl is not ready to be in an adult sexual relationship.


I\'m thinking the same thing sadly. I\'m not sure if she is ready for any kind of adult relationship, with or without the sex.

10-10-2002, 11:25 AM
If sex, or at least the prospect of sex, is not the fundamental topic, then it\'s not dating, it\'s socializing.

Of course, two people can date without \"actual\" sex if they are considering the other as a prospective marriage partner. But once they\'e married, then sex is the tie between them since marriage only exists to provide a framework for sex and its consequences.

And if the relationship is just socializing, then no way should you let yourself be \"monogamous\" or monoplized by it.

It does not sound like this female is ready for any of that and doesn\'t really know what it all means yet. It is a big deal to de-flower a virgin so don\'t try to rush her - just respectfully give her the LJBF.

10-10-2002, 11:26 AM
Oh, such good advice.

10-10-2002, 11:36 AM
Yeah well we already do some stuff, and we kind of did take it further once when drunk (with a condom), but we both stopped it, we were in someones bathroom at a party.

Problem is, half the time she is suggesting we have sex, or flirting with the idea. She suggested it that one time, and has others but I\'ve said no.

But I guess you are right Whitehall, it is just sociallising without some kind of sex. Of course if (or indeed when) I tell her she will go on again about me only wanting her for sex...

10-10-2002, 11:43 AM
<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

But I guess you are right Whitehall, it is just sociallising without some kind of sex. Of course if (or indeed when) I tell her she will go on again about me only wanting her for sex...

<hr></blockquote>How old are you both?

10-10-2002, 12:48 PM
I was just gonna say -- it\'s ok to \"just socialize\" right now -- that\'s what you\'re supposed to be doing.

Cpt., I wouldn\'t have sex with her if I were you, and I\'d ask for consent at every step. She\'s scared and she\'s not ready. Of course she\'s going to suggest it and flirt with the idea, she\'s curious and has some urges too. But she\'s nowhere near emotionally mature enough and add to that the dogma she\'s absorbed from the church to make her feel tortured with guilt afterwards, I don\'t think it would be good to have sex with her. Or do too much playing, either. She\'s too conflicted.

10-10-2002, 12:55 PM
Listen to this Lady....

10-10-2002, 01:23 PM
Cpt. needs sleep to sort out his head.

I wasnt really advokating sleeping with her, but she was basically banning all forms of sex. Been with her a while, if you ignor the breakup.

She just txt me saying she would do anything to make it work this time, and that she hates arguing. I hope it doesnt mean she would have sex just to stay with me.

10-10-2002, 01:25 PM
It would not be at all unusual. That\'s young girl thinking. All this flip-flopping back and forth is showing you the level of her ambivalence.

10-10-2002, 01:27 PM
Usually when a woman thinks she being compelled to have sex, whether she wants to or not, she\'ll find a way to make you NOT want it too.

10-11-2002, 09:53 PM
No sex? No relationship. Byebye.