Women's Behavior

[MadMaxx]

Okay, this is a question for the women(or anyone else who thinks they know). It\'s kind of a body language thing, but a little bit different. More and more recently I am noticing something, and I want to know if it means what I think it means. I spend a lot of time in coffee shops, usually Starbuck\'s, due to my work schedule. A classic example of what will happen is that I am sitting down and a women comes and sits next to me. She begins to get out her laptop, her books, or whatever it is she needs to do whatever she is going to do. Now, maybe some people are just really obnoxious, but I feel that she is making as big a production out of things as she can. Like, dropping things, and grunting and humming and hawing, and taking to herself a bit. Also, even if I don\'t witness the above, because she was seated before I got there, she will start doing the same kind of things. Like groaning and talking to herself a bit.

Now, my reading on this is that she is putting on some kind of show to get my attention, in the hopes that I am going to initiate conversation with her by asking her what the hell her problem is or what the hell she doing or whatever. Opinions???

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yup, that\'s what she\'s doing. It\'s possible she really does need to do work, but ... there are places more conducive to concentration than Starbuck\'s. I\'m thinking the laptop, books, etc. are props so she\'s not just sitting there staring off into space. She\'s there because she wants someone to strike up a conversation with her.

Part of it is self-consciousness, too.

But mostly it\'s to draw attention.

[MadMaxx]

FTR, thanks for your 2 cents. This forum is one of my most valuable sources for getting women\'s perspective on women. My female friends/acquaintances are useless in this department. I don\'t think they have any experience with guys hitting on them, and not enough ingenuity to send out signals to men. I actually feel sorry for them.

While I am at it, here is another question. Let\'s see whether I have the right idea on this one. I have been given to understand that it is important for a guy to ask a women for her number/e-mail if he is interested in her. I believe this to be true, but some guys try to advise me to go about handing out my business card to women. They are convinced(I don\'t know why) that this is the way to go. I try to tell them that they are nuts, and 99% of women would never call you if you did that. Agree?

One of the reasons that I believe it is that when I meet a women, when I am getting her e-mail I offer my e-mail/number also, and sometimes it is like she doesn\'t even want it, even though I believe she must be interested. This doesn\'t discourage me, although it might have in the past. I take it as meaning that she knows that she isn\'t going to contact me anyway, because it isn\'t her job, so she doesn\'t need it, even if she is interested. She is actually giving me a message that if I am interested I had better be contacting her. What do you think?

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

She is actually giving me a message that if I am interested I had better be contacting her. What do you think?

<hr></blockquote>At least around these parts (Central Florida, USA), this seems _highly_ dependant upon the age of the female. Young ones (under mid-twenties) are more likely to take an assertive position and want to be the one to call - or at least feel equal responsibility for continuing the contact. Above that age they are more conservative and almost always wait for you to call.

[jose]

A woman doesn\'t feel comfortable calling a guy even if she\'s interested in him.
A man\'s passive behavior will turn her off. As liberated as women are today, they still expect the man to risk rejection. It makes them uncomfortable when a man expects them to be the risk takers. If you represent yourself in this way she probably doesn\'t want to be in a relationship with you. Translation- Don\'t give out your number because she sees your not the \"take charge\" kind of guy and willing to take a risk.

[Elana]

I totally agree with jose

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ditto, ditto, and double ditto Jose and Elana. Asking a woman to pursue you is like asking you to wear a pink tutu. It\'s very uncomfortable for most of us, completely goes against our grain. How many of the guys who gave you this bad advice are getting any action from their method? I bet not many. Women want to be pursued. Although it\'s true a younger woman will call you before a mature woman will. That\'s only because the younger woman has yet to see that it\'s a total waste of time. A guy you have to chase is not worth the having once you\'ve caught him. That knowledge only comes with experience.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"A guy you have to chase is not worth the having once you\'ve caught him.\"
Now that, i find is something that most men think also about girls. Plus if thats the attitude of most girls i\'ll keep using them for sex. i hand my email out all the time and have alot of success with girls (25-30).
Why isn\'t a man worth chasing?
Sh it us guys are doing it all the time.
Its time for you girls to wake up, theres plenty more fish in the sea, and with that attitude you\'ll probably miss out on Mr Right.
I feel quite offended, men want to be persued also

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sorry. No offense meant. But for the sake of guys sitting around wondering why the women won\'t make the first move, there\'s my two cents. ...

[MadMaxx]

I\'m glad most of you agree. I thought you would. As for Dazza, well, I agree that we guys would LIKE to be pursued, but that has little bearing on the question of \"how do women think or look at the situation\". We can WANT or LIKE all we want, but what is important is that we understand the female psyche, because we aren\'t going to change it anytime soon. If you have lots of girls actively persuing you, I envy you, because I don\'t think it is going to happen for most of us anytime soon.

[xxxPantero]

.... which is why in school, we all played around by stealing a girl\'s notebook.... we liked that chase, even if it was playful and non-sexual! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

plus, girls-chase-boys was always the best. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

i was horny since i was in kindergarten.... weird, i knew i wanted to do SOMETHING that felt good to those girls!!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Alright everyone.. I’m new here but I would like to jump in and give my two cents worth.

Point 1.

Never offer your phone number or e-mail address to a woman! If they ask for it then that’s a different story. The thing here is instead of overanalyzing women’s behavior, just bottom-line everything! The bottom line is that if she wanted your number bad enough, then she would ask you for it. Its all dependent on her interest level in you. If she is interested enough in pursuing you, she will.

Now.. This leads me to point number 2.

What I am about to say is the total truth. Women do not respond emotionally to men that are not a challenge to them. Women say they like to be pursued, and they do, but the key is to do it in a manner that raises her interest level in you. So, for starters, I always ask a woman for the HOME phone number.
That is her personal space. If she gives me her HOME phone number (not cell) (not an E-mail address) but a HOME phone number, I know that she is at least halfway interested in me. You see, women are pursued all the time by men, and if there is something about you that they sense that makes them uncomfortable, instead of them realizing that they are just not that interested and refusing to give you anything, they will put you off buy giving out e-mail addresses, cell phone numbers, etc. Women rationalize giving out their cell phone numbers or e-mail addresses instead of home phone numbers as being protective. They will say to themselves, well I had better give him my cell phone number,, He might be a psycho or a stalker.
What this line of thinking means is that she is really not that interested in you. If she is already chalking you up to being something undesirable, you don’t stand a chance. On the other hand, if she has a true and genuine interest in you, she will give you the home number. The lesson to be learned here is, if you ask for the HOME number and she gives you anything other than that, DON’T CALL HER. She is not worth your time pursuing because she is not that interested. Bottom line it guys!

Point #3
If the lady does give you her home phone number, wait at least 5 to 9 days before you call her. Why? Because most guys call in two, or three days.. Women are use to this behavior from men. If you want to find out if she really was interested in you to begin with, then wait 5-9 days before you phone her. During the 5-9 days, if she is truly interested in you, by not calling her it will force her to think about you and she will be asking herself all sorts of questions, like, Why hasn’t he called? Maybe he didn’t like me… Maybe he wasn’t interested in me.. Or… If they are not really interested in you, maybe a little or they are possibly the type of woman I like to refer to as a self centered inflexible taker, they will relegate you down to something below them inside of their minds. Thinking that you are jerk or whatever and they relegate you down to this when they don’t even know you. Its all self- justification in their head because they are upset t because you haven’t phoned.

A normal, healthy and sane woman that has a true interest in you will not respond in the above manner and will be happy when you call her – If she is truly interested in you. Don’t wait any longer than nine days to call her. Minimum of 5, no more than nine, and NEVER call on a Friday or Saturday. I prefer Sundays or Mondays. This 5-9 day rule will flush out the ones that were not that interested in you to begin with. Some women will not directly say no to a man when it comes to dating rituals such as giving out numbers. Most women, when not interested in a man, will not tell you. Instead of just saying , No thank –you, they will give you their number. Ask yourself this guys, and ladies if you are honest, you will admit this true.. But, guys, How many times have you ever been given a number by a girl but when you call, she is never home. Doesn’t answer.. Well. Its probably because she either has too busy of a social life to go out on dates with you, or she see’s its you calling on caller ID and doesn’t want to talk with you because she is not interested, or she has found another guy and in that case, you are out of the game anyhow.

Now, after following the 5-9 day rule, when you do phone her, if she is not home, DONT LEAVE A VOICE MAIL. Call back ina couple of days. Also, if she does answer but she seems a little put-out or miffed as to why you haven’t phoned, just joke around with her a little bit. For instance, if she says something like.. Why haven’t you called? ?Just respond by saying something Like,,, Well.. I did call! She will then say When? Your response would be something like.. Just now!! Five seconds ago! And say it with a smile in your voice. By waiting the 5-9 it weeds out the ones you don’t want to waist time on.

Point #4

Never spend more than 10 to 15 minutes talking on the phone with a woman during the first 30 days of your dating her. Call her, make some small talk, be a gentleman but funny and sincere and get the date. The telephone, as far as men should be concerned when it comes to new relationships with women, is to get you to her front door! You can talk with her on the date! Put it this way, the less you say in the beginning, the more mysterious and intriguing you are, especially if you couple it with a great sense of humor, it will drive her interest level in you off the charts!

Point 5#

After following the above rules, wear your pheros on the date, be a complete gentleman, a good LISTENER and make her laugh a lot and I can guarantee this woman will probably really start to like you.

Ok.. I have yakked enough here. Being a rather short guy I have always had to work a little harder than the average guy in picking up the really good looking women, but over time I developed these strategies and they WORK! Especially on the REALLY hot ones that know that they can have any man they want. Those are the kinds of women I like to date! They never get a challenge out of a man because they are so good looking, but when one comes along that may not be ugly, but less than average, she will respond much more positively to the above described pointers I have given then she would to all the other guys. This psychological approach really works, I wrote a thesis on it in school. I have used these strategies and I have had some Very Wonderful Relationships with different woman in my life, all because I behaved a little differently than the normal male.

I hope this helps you guys that are questioning why women don’t want your number. If they did, they would ask for it. Bottom line it guys.

The above pointers put the HARD TO GET HOT HOT WOMEN that lots of guys would love to have, in a state of mind where they are actually pursuing you and they dont even realize that the tables have been turned. She thinks you are pursuing her, but in reality you have turned the table. 9 out of ten times, the woman in this situation will be much more flexiable and accomodating and will be fun to be around. Just treat her right and follow the about little rules and the hotties will love you.. Even without pheros.

Also.. No matter what, In the first 60 days, judge a woman by what she DOES, not what she SAYS. If what she does such as cancel dates, come up with excues as to reschedule or whatever, then dump her and move on. This also works well for women when they meet men, but most of the women have already figured that one out anyhow.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Alright everyone.. I’m new here but I would like to jump in and give my two cents worth.

<hr></blockquote>Pretty decent summary of Doc Love. (Probably the wrong forum for it, tho. This is the woman\'s issues forum...) You\'ll find others here who have taken the course /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Welcome.

[jose]

I agree with everything you said 007 except for the six to nine days call. I like to call between four to six days so that I\'m still fresh in her mind. Nice advice from Doc Love, every guy should follow.

[koolking1]

I\'d like to think that all that dating/phonecall mind game bullshit goes out the window when we hit our 40s. Ladies, am I right or ???

[proteus]

007 is spot on in almost all he said. Some may say this \"gaming\" should go out the window as we mature and grow older and I wish that were so. However, what I have found out is that invariably if you decide to play it straight, no games, be direct and honest in your interest in her, you get nowhere fast, she loses interest!!!.

So these may be \"games\" but unfortunately they seem to be \"rules\" that you must follow to be successful with women or almost invariably you end up being categorised as a \"no challenge/loser guy\" and you never hear from her again.

[Elana]

The one man that got me to marry him is the only man that did not play games with me. I guess I fell for the games when I was younger, but by 30 it got old. I knew exactly what the guy was attempting to do and it only made me feel like I had more power.

[proteus]

there was this article posted on fastseduction from the heartless-b*tches website that I think is interesting and somewhat illuminating. It\'s called \"The Man With No Spine - A parable for \"Nice Guys\":

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml (\"http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml\")

[Elana]

Here is another take on the subject...

http://personals.nerve.com/personals/emlo/10_10_02/index.asp (\"http://personals.nerve.com/personals/emlo/10_10_02/index.asp\")

[Pet]

I cannot speak for all women and I am well aware of the fact that in certain countries these dating games probably work just fine but I myself don\'t want to have anything to do with a guy who asks for my number and doesn\'t call the next day at the latest. I like it best when they call me that same night (and those calls can get really interesting /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif ) which in my book does not suggest despair but interest. If a man waits days to call me I have already lost interest in him. I want to know that I have made such an impression he cannot wait to see me again and I do not want to even think might be playing dating games with me because that tells me he has no mind of his own and plays by the rules invented by others. Which in turn suggests he hasn\'t got the imagination nor spontaneity to come up with an original approach of his own and that leads me to believe he also has no imagination &amp; spontaneity in bed. Not interested, NEXT!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Pet

[MOBLEYC57]

Cool Pet!!! But like everything else that involves males and females...it varies from each individual. Some can\'t start their day off without a cup of drama, I\'ll have coffee with lots of sugar please. It\'s like sex...for some the act itself is enough, but of others....there\'s a higher plane of sharing. It\'s like a lot of young one\'s not understanding that it\'s not the final destination, but the journey...when it comes to sex. Some learn, some want to learn, and some could care less. You choose one method, another may choose another. Dating is tuff...if you\'re serious about making it work!

P.S. Where\'s Slovenia?

[koolking1]

ah Pet!!! Glad to hear your views. My opinion is that if I\'d met a woman and was charmed by her and felt she was charmed by me, I\'d want to call her that evening just to tell her that I\'d enjoyed the short time spent together. Why should I make myself suffer when I could have someone enjoyable to speak with. And, it\'s unlikely I\'d want a woman who would suffer through my waiting to call. Laughing, if any of you guys out there want a professional martyr, I can give you my Mom\'s phone #.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

4 years ago, I met a pretty girl in a bar, went talking to her, small talk, little jokes, nothing really amazing really. We danced the last dance, I grabbed her ass, bite her in the neck. We kissed in the parking lot, she gave me her number, I called her two days later. When I was talking to her on the phone for the first time, I talked as if we where already going out together, I gave her no choice. She found it funny but the self confidence charmed her and we dated, at her place. Had sex 2-3 days later (she innitiated the first intercourse, I was very surprised!). We moved together a month later. I don\'t have any time to waste on funny games andI [censored] like a rabbit since then.

I recommend the respectful but no bullshit strategy. If it doesn\'t work, it\'s probably because she\'s not interested anyway. Gave them no choice, if they really push you away, back off, if not, you\'r in.

[druid]

I agree with the \"games\" posted above. Except waiting for 5-9 days. I think that is too long, I ususally wait 2 days. The reason is because women just seem to respond to these \"games\" better. I mean can u blame us ladies. When we\'re young and extremly horny you wanna talk and do other CRAP were not interested in. So we figure out these games to make you feel more interested in us so we can get some sex. Besides I don\'t believe women (well most -- I def. think FTR can!! ) can really articulate what they want in men. I mean look at how many women say they like \"nice\" guys and only seem to date/have sex with jerks?? Why do so many women stay with wife beaters?? Women say one thing and mean say something else....Are you consiciously aware of this?? I don\'t know.

And women have their little games they play....The Rules....Those stupid cosmo magizine articules.....Not returning phone calls...

[Mamapunisha]

Well first of all, as you notice it is a sign of wanting your attention, and doing things that they don\'t know can be nerve wrecking, but a little conversation wouldn\'t hurt, Im pretty sure thats the way there pick-up line goes, well not stating as just pick-up and go, but as wanting to know sort of way!!!!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What a load of horse shjt, if i followed those guidelines i would get no where. I\'ve asked many-a-female those questions, and found all of them had there own preferences/expectations about how a man should act towards them.You will never get it right, unless you can read peoples minds
Basically do what you feel you want to, if you like her/him do what you feel is right.
I travel around alot and have girlfriends throughout europe, i haven\'t got time to wait, i\'m in a country for at the most two weeks, i act quickly and the girls love it.

[Elana]

Dazza-I\'m already loving ya! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So, Dazza, you ever come to D.C.? I like the way you speak your mind.

[proteus]

it may be \"horseshit\" to you and you\'re entitled to your opinion, however there are some fundamental truths in what 007 said and even if one disagrees, one can do so respectfully..

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Since we\'re now more conscious about keeping to subject matter, may I suggest you gentlemen take your tips for picking up hot chicks somewhere other than the Women\'s Forum? Especially since there is no emoticon for \"sighing and rolling your eyes\" and if you\'re going to be offended by terms like \"horseshit.\"

[jose]

Sure Dazza do what you feel is right if you want to get sex from these women instead of a meaningful relationship. I guarantee those European girlfriends of yours are having sex behind your back with some other guys you don\'t know about. If you want to weed out the gold-diggers,low self-esteem, mentally crazy women, Doc love\'s \"The System\" is for you. It\'s easy to pick up a girl and have sex with her but the trick is to keep her \"Attraction\" towards you so that she doesn\'t dump you out of boredom or because she met some other guy.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I guess there is no escape, anywhere you go, in any forum...

ok, what else can you say bad about women, I\'m resigned to it and all ears. ... gold diggers, mentally crazy, having sex behind people\'s backs ... please, do go on. Tell us more. Please, more about the hotties and the gold diggers...nothing I love more than a good woman-bashing session. Let\'s have a little name calling -- actually, no, let\'s have a LOT of name calling of women. Don\'t we like that, ladies? That\'s what we love to read...

[jose]

Red if you\'re offended by those comments live with it. We men have been sticking our necks out for you ladies for a longtime and getting it chopped off. I never said all women are like that, but you\'re not going to know a person the first time you look at them what their personality or agenda is. Men are also guilty of the same thing, if that\'s what you want to hear.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, Pet -- great post, I enjoyed reading that.

[Whitehall]

We men can certainly come up with a long list of complaints about women - but it does cut both ways.

But when all is said and done, a good woman is almost always necessary for a happy life for a man. A good woman stands behind her man, believes in him, backs him up, comforts him, makes a warm home for him. Most stunning to me is that fact that a woman will commit to carrying a man\'s child, a lifetime commitment of toil for her. Women have to think hard and long before choosing a man to make such offerings.

I think what many of our male commenters are saying is that they have yet to win the love and devotion of a good woman. I suspect that when that day comes, they will, like generations of men before them, sing a different tune.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks, Whitehall. I needed my feathers smoothed.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Whitehall\'s definitely right - but it\'s better he said it. I could have said the same, maybe less eloquently, but not having experienced that \"change of tune\" that he mentioned - my words would\'ve been illegitimate.

I\'ve witnessed too many people changing their tunes. Such trauma is not for the young to bear.

[MOBLEYC57]

Key words...when the day comes! We would all like to be considered good men, and good women. But hell no!!! It\'s not that way!!! People sing a different tune even if they don\'t have the perfect woman/man. Give me a woman that doesn\'t lie or cheat, and I\'ll sing any tune that needs to be sung!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! \"Mobley I bet you\'ve given them a reason to cheat.\" Oh hell no!! Geez! the worst that I can think of is...I said no I don\'t want to go out, or shopping! Reason to cheat....Not!!! And yes, for a lot of us, it\'s easy to point a finger, not wanting to understand/see that the answer to the problem is...the reflection in the mirror. The perfect example is this forum...why are we here? To attract, to keep, to excite - that suppose to be all mental, except for the attract part, I think that has to do with something in the air /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif, but the rest is!!!...sounds like the goodness and hard work that people are supposingly doing, is not cutting the mustard if you ask me. What about you? What\'s your thoughts on why \"WE\" are here... Please...I\'d like to hear it. Anyone!? Anyone!? When you\'re in LOVE, LOVE keeps the passion stirred up...how can it not. For those that don\'t have physical problems, any doctor will tell you...for one to get the urge/get horny/want some...it\'s all in the brain!!! Granted...some of us have a little water in the brain...washing your ears too much /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif, and that could be the reason. Tater!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don\'t lie and I\'ve never once cheated in a relationship. So what\'s that got me? Absolutely nothin\'...

I\'m here because the conversation is better here than anyplace else I know.

[MOBLEYC57]

See what I mean? /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ain\'t nuttin but a thang, shrug, grin.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Cricky, its been some good reading since my last post.
sorry to offend anyone, but i got fired up.
I honestly cherish a good woman when in a proper relationship, but i\'ve spent 6 years in the last 7 in two relationships, at 25 its time for me to have fun.
I have no regrets.
Still, I\'m always looking for a good woman to settle down with, my clocks ticking to ladies.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

lol well in reply to 007 rainting and raiving, its a hell of alot simpler than than that. Girls like excitement, they want what they can\'t have or what other girls want. You have to have something speacial out of the ordinary. Really once you get good at understanding this you can Get any girl you want without having to worry about all those rules and [censored]. (IE: I live in Atlanta where could you find every hot girl, the kind all guys fantasize about? Snoop Doggy Doggs rap concert! ) Its all about standing out in a crowd being the center of attenion thats how you get a woman wanting to tear your pants off and suck your dick! You got to show the your balls so they want to lick them. Trust me its what works. I understand alot of the guys here that wont work for just because it takes some thug or alpha male in you to pull it off. Turn the womans life into a soap operea the key is to give her a wide emotional stimulis. If sex is all your looking for thats the quickest way to get it.

[MOBLEYC57]

Alright Nate!!!! The bottom line...everyone wants what they can\'t/think they can\'t have = CHALLENGE!! What amazes me is...everyone wants the challenge...isn\'t it more of a challenge to make the relationship that you\'re in that\'s not working work? Hello!! It easier to go out and cheat...the road most traveled. Tater!

[Funlover]

Hey FTR, I\'ve never lied or cheated in a relationship either, and I don\'t intend to start now. I just wanted to say that I am PROUD of you. I really appreciate you being on the forum.

Thanks, Funlover

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks, Funlover - I\'m glad you\'re here, too! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[aaron]

\"we guys would LIKE to be pursued\"

MadMaxxx have you ever heard the saying: \"A man chases a woman until SHE catches HIM\" /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[MadMaxx]

Aaron, I don\'t know whether I have heard that one or not. For my edification, why don\'t you explain it to me?

[CptKipling]

I\'ll give it a shot.

Women almost always know if you like them. They wait and see if you are worth it, and then play games with you to get your interest sky high. When that happens, she\'s \"caught\" you, and so lets you \"catch\" her.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It\'s another way to say you have to make the overt moves, because she won\'t, although she\'s making covert moves the whole time but letting you think the action is your own idea.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Women are mischevious /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif But sure love \'em anyway.