OT: Fastseduction.com vs doubleyourdating.com

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m a little perplexed by this, so I thought I\'d ask the experts here.

Fastseduction.com is basically about using NLP to arouse intense feelings in women to get them attracted to you. The key word here is feelings. Included in this is reading poetry, being romantic, having that \"connection\" with someone etc.

Now, on the other end of the spectrum, doubleyourdating.com is about being cocky, funny, slighty arrogant, playing hard to get, etc. This is the exact opposite of talking about feelings and having a deep connection with someone.

What I\'m wondering about is, how can these two opposite approaches attract the same kind of women?? Doubleyourdating.com epitomizes the \"alpha male\". How can you talk about feelings and be able to read poetry and still keep your \"alpha maleness\"? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[xxxPantero]

um, maybe it\'s being confident enough to read poetry in front of people (as long as it\'s not too early on) that shows how \"alpha male\" you are - you\'re not afraid of what you look like to other people

[xxxPantero]

um, maybe it\'s being confident enough to read poetry in front of people (as long as it\'s not too early on) that shows how \"alpha male\" you are - you\'re not afraid of what you look like to other people

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m just a learner, but I may have some input:

I\'d call these two things just two sides of the same sword. The ends are the same, but the means are slightly different. Imagine carrying a sword with one edge being a normal, smooth, sharp blade, and the other being serrated. One can obviously use either edge to kill their opponent... Fast seduction is like the smooth side, whereas cocky + funny is akin to the serrated aspect.

Point is, both sides play upon qualities women find attractive.

Anyway, what I think doubleyourdating tries to teach, is sucess through countermeasures. For some reason, I lack the ability right now, to articulate what I want to say... so I will try to illustrate with an example:

Conversation between you and her:
Her: I don\'t like long hair on men
You: Your just jealous because my long hair looks so much better than yours.

Or while eating:

Her: Stop taking my fries!
You: (take a few more fries next time and maybe double-dip the ketchup)

As you can see, the words and the actions convey parts of the \"successful\" personality types in his book. By telling the girl she\'d be jealous of your hair, you imply cockiness and arrogance. With the fries thing, you\'re just being indifferent but also dominant - because she said not to take her food, you defied and took more.

What kind of snapped me like a rubberband, was my realization of this. I have a friend who fits into the badboy category. Well I\'ll be damned that I didn\'t take notes before, but as one who\'s seen him go thru his share of women, he\'s ALWAYS done things like the fry stealing example. I remember his ex, on countless occasions, going \"You [censored]! Don\'t do that!\" Sure enough, he goes and does it one more time. She might threaten - but albeit not even serious enough to make me wince - \"well, you\'re not getting any\" and he\'d retort \"you know you want this dick in 15 minutes!\". To top it off, he also has a knack for teasing - so of course he\'s equipped with three important tools, of which, by comparison, I really had none.

Both of the examples, I think, are also countermeasures, because you\'re turning the tables and sending back an unexpected message. The first is kinda like a neg hit, whereas the second is unpredictable. In my shoes, had I gotten that nagging tone \"Stop taking my fries!\" I probably would have stopped. That\'s obviously predictable. (make mental note - do not do that!)

From a recent personal experience, I believe that had I not taken any lip from my date, then she\'d probably still be trying to call me. We were in the city, and I had a pretty good date lined up, but I did not want to spend the date debating things - and I shrugged off some things I should have taken some offense to. In fact, she even had the nerve to point this out, by accusing me of being on paxil or some easygoing meds, because I had \"no opinion\" on certain things.

After reading the DyD materials, I\'m convinced that had I taken some offense to some of the things said (i.e. calling her out) that things would have been different. By playing down the confrontation/debate thing, I must have reeked of WUSS. Had I instead made a point to say, \"just because of your crappy family values..\" or \"I can\'t believe you just said what you did about 9-11\" it would have went over differently.

I find the NLP thing harder, because of the stuff I need to remember (patterns) and that I would need to talk more eloquently (I don\'t do that 1/10 as well as I write). On the other hand, DyD wants you to utilize what really should be common, natural behavior, IMO. (Personally, I\'ll let my hands inspire the feelings and whatnot through touch and massage) Since I\'ve grown up, I\'m not that bratty, annoying, indifferent little PITA like I once was. The thing is, for a long period of time before I \"grew\" out of that phase, I continually shrugged it off when family and relatives kept telling me to change my ways, stop acting like a brat, etc.

Dare I say that the ideas in DyD might seem sorta childish, but perhaps I should consider taking a page out of my own childhood! When I got bratty and bitched about wanting gifts/toys, well, I got something. Just goes to show ya... /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif

To try and answer one of the questions - the alpha maleness in, and of itself, would give the woman that feeling of security, maybe the feeling of adventure (by being unpredictable) or maybe a feeling of satisfaction that they\'re with someone who is under control.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FS also talks about confidence, alpha maleness, but with DYD, it seems to go to an extreme. Telling a girl you like her is seen as \"wussy\", lol. Maybe the two approaches actually attract different women.

Women who are sweet and romantic and nice, yet still very feminine (like Meg Ryan for example) go for the SS type of approach. While the cliched sorority chick, who parties in Cancun, drinks, cusses occasionally, etc goes for the rougher, cockier DYD type of guy. Just a thought.

On FS, there are some good examples under the \"player guide\" of real seductions. Heavy into the feelings and connection. No stealing french fries type of behavior. You\'re not dominating her or staying constantly in control, yet it works!! I\'ve seen it in my own life. Hmmmmm.

The one thing I take away from these two sites, plus using none based phero\'s is the incredible attraction to \"alpha maleness\". This is a bigger asset than money, looks, etc.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Here\'s my take on things.

What DyD and FS do are ways of giving women what they desire. A GOOD SEXUAL/ROMANTIC FEELING. However, they use different methods to achieve that feeling. I my opinion DyD is superior to fastseduction because you can BE the person DyD proposes wheras NLP type things are just things you DO. DyD is not about using patterns to slip in through the back door, its about being confident about yourself, being funny and teasing. These are all things that are not only good for making women feel good around you, but also make you feel better about yourself. They are things you perhaps should do whether you want to get women or not. IT fosters a healthy and productive outlook on life rather than NLP that gives the feelings, though doesn\'t necessarily make you a better person or allow you to deliver what a woman wants in the long run. With DyD you don\'t need to hide anything, you can be honest about what you are doing, you could even get away with letting a woman read it and she would agree with it. However, with NLP, if a woman ever found out you were doing it to her she would despise you.

Also askmen.com is very good!

[proteus]

Interesting thread, however I think something should be clarified as far as fastseduction.com goes. I don\'t think it\'s not really a question of fastseduction vs doubleyourdating, for the simple reason that fastseduction is a comprehensive site which encompasses pretty much *every* style of seduction. As a matter of fact David DeAngelo (DeAngelo) was one of the folks who was an early contributor on ASF and made it what it has become today. So fastseduction is in a sense like a central warehouse for all the info from various PUAs like David DeAngelo (doubleyourdating), Mystery (Mystery Method) , Ross Jefferies (Speed Seduction) etc . and so you will find everything ranging from advice/discussions on alpha maleness, cocky/funny attitude, NLP, neg hits, group theory etc. so from this perspective it\'s the first place to go to and then once you decide on a particular approach which you are comfortable with then specialize, go and learn the Mystery Method or David DeAngelo\'s material or Ross Jefferies material. Each of these guys contributed to the development of fastseduction and then created their own websites based on their particular approach so this is why I say it\'s not a question of one versus the other - rather fastseduction is like the grandaddy of all these PUA styles. so the standard ASF advice for anyone looking into this stuff is read the ASF FAQs first as if anything, this is the manifesto of fastseduction, whereas things like NLP are just one aspect of it.

Now if the question is about which approach do I prefer: i.e. NLP, cocky/funny etc/ , that is which PUA would or do I model myself after I\'d have to say at this point the Mystery Method (and then I will alternate this with GM style sometmes - GM style is another more direct PU style) since this is very successful at getting 9s and 10s and for some reason works to my strengths. I use NLP to a degree but only in a very limited and controlled fashion to where it feels natural as a lot of the patterns I just don\'t feel comfortable doing. Anyways, as I said if you are a newbie, start with fastseduction - read all the stuff, then from their if you want to learn more about doubleyoudating, speed seduction, mystery method etc then visit each of the different PUAs webpages but you\'ll get a better sense of each approach if you first visit fastseduction and take a look at all of them for free.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What\'s fascinating and tends to keep you hooked is a guy who can mix it up. He\'s mildly annoying, teases a little on the edge of too much, makes you laugh in spite of yourself, but when you\'re alone together he gets all warm and fuzzy and intimate. That\'s the guy you can\'t get enough of. Anyway, it works for me.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Good point Proteus, i had gone slightly crazy in my last post and had confused Fastseduction.com with Ross Jeffries\' Speed Seduction! Yep Fastseduction is a great place to start.

View my earlier post as NLP Vs Cocky-Funny

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think that is what David DeAngelo is really aiming at. Treat women well and with respect, though don\'t get, as he says, \"wussy\". Tease them, be in control of yourself, then you will be happy and so will they.

[jose]

I always thought FS was a combination of styles from different sources. While DYD is a certain style that works for me, doing the \"cocky and funny attitude\" has got me dates. The trick is doing it in public but when your alone with your girlfriend you tone it down a bit but not too much. Another good source is Doc Love on www.askmen.com (\"http://www.askmen.com\") he focuses more on a woman\'s interest level in you. How to be a challenge and let the woman chase you.