Help: DD#1 - SOE & NPA

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK fellas. My roommate and I have had DD#1 for 3 or 4 weeks now, and have worn it about 5 times per week. we have never worn it at the same place at the same time together... we don\'t want any mix-up as to where the scent is originating. i\'ve gotten hits, but i normally get hits when i go out. my roommate tells me that it doesn\'t work. but i\'ve been on this board reading threads for 2 months now, and i am 100% convinced that this stuff works. But, i haven\'t seen any differences in the # of hits i get, nor do i attract better looking women than normal.

I\'m a sexual psychologist (grad school) at UT, and i know that pheros work. that\'s why i keep convincing my roommate that they work. i know about the Essence of Genevieve study (where drops of Genevieve\'s sweat were placed under the pillows of different women, and all the women slowly matched her menstrual cycle - thus explaining why when women live together, their menstrual cycles begin to match - for sexual competition), as well as many other studies regarding human sexuality and pheromones.

Anyway, i unfortuantely have not been getting evidence that the pheros are working for me. Seeing as everyone here loves them and shouts their praises for them like they are God\'s gift, I wondered what is your take on this? Am i doing something wrong? Maybe DD#1 isn\'t the right mix for either myself (23) or my roommate (21)?

I have full confidence in the stuff, but am not really even getting a placebo effect. As a sexual psychologist, i know why and how pheros work regarding evolution and sexual selection. I work with Dr. Buss at UT. He has tons of great books on Human Mating, etc. Why women don\'t project ovulation, while all other mammals do... etc.

i would love to go into discussion with anyone the Psychology of Human Mating, evolution, and sexual selection.

back to the point... any ideas fellas?

hook

[**DONOTDELETE**]

by the way:
i use 6-8 inches, spread out as evenly as i can in the typical places:
neck, wrists, chest, behind the ears
and always on the skin

i don\'t use any other cologne: SoE has a scent that i actually like very much. Another funny thing, is that my roommate says it smells like cat pee, but i can\'t smell that at all (i\'ve read that this happens).

i shower 2-4 hours before putting it on, then wait at least 15-30 minutes before heading out. i wear it out, to class, and to work.
i wear deoderant, but make sure that it doesn\'t touch or even come near the DD#1.

lemme know if i left anything out....
thanks guys (and FTRH)

Hook

[Shoe]

6-8 inches from the SOE bottle, that would be something like 10 drops. Giving you 3+ drops of NPA per application, which is usually an overdose for us young guys. I was using full strength DD#1 for a while, typically 2-4 drops and had no luck whatsoever. Now I use a modified version with 95% SOE / 5% NPA, apply ten drops spread all around (for about 1/2 drop NPA).... and it is my favorite mix, much better than SOE alone.

BTW I can\'t smell NPA either. But my mom can, and she would always comment when I was using full strength DD#1. But at 95% / 5% no problem.

[MadMaxx]

I would love to help you, but wtih me being 10 years older than you, my experiences are not necessarily relevant for you. However, you did mention that you usually get hits without pheros. There have been other people like you on the forum. It seems that if you have the right personality, aura, or whatever, and you do well without pheros, they don\'t do anything for you, because nothing needs to be done. What SOE can do, maybe you don\'t need done. Some have also suggested for example, that the better looking people were, the less likely the pheros were to do anything. I makes sense to me. If someone is a 9 or of 10, you already have peole drooling over you and acting in a certain way. You can\'t expect to heighten that any more. On the other hand if you are a 6 or 7, the affect of pheros can be very noticeable. And, it\'s been said that the overall aura you project with your personality, demeanor, or whatever, is a big factor. I can have good days and lame days with pheros, often depending on my own mood.
By the way, have you read \"The Red Queen\". That is one of the latest books I\'ve read. Absolutely fascinating! I\'m quite interested in the whole area that you referred to.

[Watcher]

Use more heaps more OD territory say 30 inches all over youre neck, then use less. Make sure you hit a big area just to check results, get up to heaps of females (go window shopping if need be, just browse through the local retail store with a massive OD to check responses. Its called the OD mall run.

If not try products individually more and less experiment as much as possible.

Try leaving out the deordorant or dont shower beforehand well at least the night before only then apply the following morning. Get out and about amoung the women. But remember this combo may not work for you. RM didnt do anything for me so go figure.

If he says it smells like cat pee then he may be sensitive to the rone or the none in the mix. That would prove that an effect is at least under way. Mention the subject to dr bass also.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well smelling like cat pee may be quite an over drive... I think too much may be like not enough.

[CptKipling]

6-8\" = 10 drops? Really? I don\'t think so, its sort of an extended dab, so maybe 5 drops max. Correct me if I\'m wrong of course.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

6-8\" = 10 drops? Really? I don\'t think so, its sort of an extended dab, so maybe 5 drops max. Correct me if I\'m wrong of course.

<hr></blockquote>I\'ve bought quite a few of these roller top bottles lately. Their dispense rate is dependent on all sorts of things, mainly the viscosity of the solution and the tightness of the ball in the socket. The \"wetting power\" (surface tension?) of the stuff in the bottle makes a difference, too.

I think Shoe\'s estimates are coming from earlier work he did, which determined that his particular bottle of SOE delivered ~ 1 ml / 28 inches. And his particular dropper delivered ~ 38 drops / ml of SOE.

I would question whether these numbers are valid for DD#1, as the added EtOH from the NPA should seriously change both the viscosity and the surface tension of the solution, both of which affect drop size and roller ball delivery. But I have no idea of how much.

[Watcher]

Oh yeah the EtOH tends to make it come out a bit more, that is a faster rate so you probably get more out of DD #1 than SOE just straight.

[Shoe]

That\'s right Bassman... I rolled one ml. of pure SOE for many weeks and arrived at 1.35 drops / inch, always rolling on clean skin and using enough pressure to keep the ball going. But yes this is very ballpark when you figure in the NPA.

Really do try a small amount... I got zero results with NPA dosage above 1/2 drop.

[MadMaxx]

I use NPA in a JB1 mix. I can get results at .6 or .9 of a drop, but it may be that results are better at a rate of .6 rather than .9 of a drop. Of course, having said that, I think my drops might be bigger than the drops of others. The hole on the end of my dropper is about 2 ml.

[CptKipling]

Ok sorry shoe, just sounded surprising.

Try this: Roll on 1\", rub it in. Apply 1 drop (or as close to 1.35 as you can get), rub it in.

Which one spreads further, if at all?

If your right, there shouldn\'t be much difference.

[Shoe]

Then inch spreads quite a bit further for me. BTW this is all using a typical glass dropper - the dropper caps on the bottles probably yield bigger drops and are hard to control -- I never use them.

Oops I think I just OD\'ed.... Shoe\'s going out on the town!
(gosh what a dorky name)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

BTW, where\'d Hook go? anybody seen him?

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

BTW, where\'d Hook go? anybody seen him?

<hr></blockquote>With _all_ due respect to hookem146, whenever I see that name, I can\'t help thinking \"he should have chosen -hookemyoung-\"

/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

just curious, but what does youth have to do with intelligence regarding this board. Watcher is younger than me, and he is highly respected around here. if that\'s not what you meant by -hookemyoung-, sorry, but please elaborate for me....


anyway, about the dd#1:

I\'m a solid 9. I\'m trying to attract girls who are 9\'s and 10\'s. I can understand the theory of, if you are already attractive, pheromones won\'t help. I get hits from the 7 thru 9 girls all the time. I\'ve been aiming the pheros at girls who were 9 to 9.5.

A girl who i could usually get showed minimal interest in me. She\'s a 9, and i would have expected the pheros to make the difference, putting me over the edge. I\'m very confident and have never had problems talking with girls, or getting girls interested in me. Maybe i\'m just greedy going for the 9+ girls.

My roommate is a 6. So under the previous theory, he should have seen a good effect form the pheros. He is less outgoing than myself, though by no means shy. I went out with him twice where he wore the pheros and I did not. He got nothing. I\'ve always done my best to convince him that pheromones work, and I can tell that he does get some confidence in that. But, I genuinely saw no change in his attractings.

Also, I believe that Watcher is a 9. He reports good numbers from DD#1. I\'m tempted to try another combination, seeing that maybe DD#1 works neither for myself nor my roommate. Any recommendations?

Dr. Meston, head of the Female Sexual Psychophysiology Lab that I work at at UT, had this to say: \"As far as attraction, humans use visual characteristics to distinguish between what is attractive and what is unattractive. (many) Animals use scent/pheromones as their sole way of communication, attracting a mate, and identifying those in their group. Some insects produce chemicals that they can alter according to the group of insects they are around. Thus, this type of insect can enter an ant hill as one of their own, though it may be 50 times the size of the ant, and have a field day eating ants, while no one seems to care.\"

that was as accurate as i can remember. she added that we do have pheromones, but doubts that they can be used for attraction. Yes, they can be used for sexual competition, thus the female menstrual cycle matching those of women they live with. This would theoretically verify the fact that some here have reported getting bad vibes / dirty looks from other males when they try to attract or move in on nearby females. She accounted for the positive responses that people give to placebo effect.

I have yet to ask Dr. Buss about this, nor Dr. Dev Singh. Dr.s Meston, Buss, and Singh are among the top scholars in the country regarding female sexual psychology, human mating, and sexual evolution, respectively.

I\'ll check back soon. I appreciate all the help, and hope I can answer some questions in return.

Thanks;
Hook

[**DONOTDELETE**]

ok, i get what BassMan meant now. sorry bout that.

I welcome any discussion regarding visual cues, particulary from JVK, from whom i\'ve read a little bit about in my searches.

also, i\'m knew here so i\'m doing my best to soak in as much information as possible. I hope i can contribute equally with info from my field of expertise.

and any recommendations from those who did not like DD#1, SOE, or NPA?

Hook


by the way, i\'m not at all this stiff of a person, after looking back over my posts, i sure seem that way. i just get excited when it comes to my field of research.

peace guys;
Hook

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

just curious, but what does youth have to do with intelligence regarding this board. Watcher is younger than me, and he is highly respected around here. if that\'s not what you meant by -hookemyoung-, sorry, but please elaborate for me....

<hr></blockquote>Boy, I was in a mood yesterday, wasn\'t I? Jes\' offensive to everybody...

I was riffin\' on what I thought would be a very funny name. I had no idea of your age. Still don\'t, for that matter.

You\'ve probably figured it out, but what I meant was - using pheromones to -hook \'em while they\'re young-

Sorry I wasn\'t more clear.

[oscar]

Hook,

The cards are really stacked against you, I\'m sorry to say.*

Firstly, the fact that you\'re a \"9\" on the looks scale means that you cannot expect to attain the percentage increase in \"perception of attractiveness\" from pheromones that your roomate, who\'s a \" 6\", is likely to realize (the lucky bastard!).

Secondly, as you no doubt know, you\'re producing scads of natural Androstenone at your age and are thus much more susceptible to the likelihood of ODing when applying phero products that contain high concentrations of A-None.

Thirdly, as you are evidently one of the @ 25% of males who cannot smell Androstenone, you are in danger of ODing whenever you use it, if all that you\'re using is your nose as a guide. This one I\'m NOT kidding about.

I think Shoe\'s advice earlier in this thread takes you in the right direction.
19:1 SOE/NPA might be a little drastic on the minimalist side, but it would allow you to apply a shitload of Androstenol without going overkill on the A-None.

I\'ve pussyfooted around and said things like, \"The 7:3 mixes aren\'t for everyone.\"
The fact is, I don\'t believe they\'re for ANYONE.

How do I account for the numerous success stories attributed to 7:3 mixes, especally JB #1? I\'ll go with the Blind Squirrel Theory. No matter how much you\'ve OD\'d, you always stand a chance of running into a female who is olfactorily or sub-olfactorily challenged.

There used to be an info sheet that came with NPA, and on it was stated that the manufacturer suggests mixing cologne with NPA at ratios of either 4:1, or 5:1.

Now I know that you\'re mathematically adept, so the following isn\'t aimed at you. Hopefully others are paying attention.
The ratio of 7:3 is just slightly more than 2:1 . At this ratio NPA accounts for 30% of the mix.
In a mix of 4:1, NPA amounts to 20% of the total.
In a mix of 5:1, NPA represents only 16.6% of the content.

Those employing the supposedly magical ratio of 7:3 are using NPA at nearly twice the strength of a 5:1 solution.

Add to this the fact that SOE, according to its creator Jim Kohl, contains as many as 80 synthetic musk fragrance components. These \"musks\", like their organic counterparts, are commonly used in the fragrance industry as fixatives to accentuate particular notes of a scent. NPA has a distinct musty cat piss-like odor that I have found is amplified by the musk components of SOE.

If, as you said, you like the fragrance of SOE, don\'t screw it up by polluting it with too much of NPA\'s nasty stink.
Don\'t get me wrong. I believe NPA is the best additive there is for sexual hits.
You\'ve just got to use it judiciously.
A 10% NPA mix might be a good starting point for you.

* (Would that I were dealt your hand.) /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Good Luck!,
Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks. That makes perfect sense.

I\'ve got the \'mones all stored up, so it should be no problem to mix at 5% or 10% NPA. Although, i\'m not sure which of those to use. maybe i\'ll start another thread if i can\'t find anything in searches.

Thanks guys,
Hookem146

[**DONOTDELETE**]

oscar: very interesting post, as usual. BTW the info sheet available with NPA can be read here:

http://www.love-scent.com/reference/instructions/npa.html (\"http://www.love-scent.com/reference/instructions/npa.html\")

[Watcher]

That could be why DD works for me so well (DD#1) that is because im constantly told i was attractive and cute and sexy but when it comes to sex (without pheros anyway) as far as impact on emotional state i have so much going on in life sex is sort of lower down. Anyway you may find that less NPA works great or you could add a similar amount of PCC (couplin concentrate) would negate the negative effects of none and still get you some response. It balances and enhances the mix. I get im cute sexy etc but when the actual move comes - women are hestitant want to be friends etc. This i believe has been my over production of -none. One thing i have noticed that boosts none production is aphrodisiacs (super honry goatweed and tribulus for 2 and plenty of zinc, magnesium and iron. Plenty of exercise (very hard workouts) lots of time in and the efforts have been well worth it, the sight of muscles sends women off anyway via olfactory conditioning to respond to androgens (another link in the theroy).

So all up use less NPA or increase the amount of PCC or EW that you are using or jump ship to SOE with instead of NPA use womens Alter ego instead.

DD#3 i guess 70% SOE and30% womens Alter ego.

[Watcher]

Ok here are the pheormone amounts of the 2 DD mixes.

DD#1
0.7 mg of rone
2.8 mg of nol
0.8 mg of none
VNO trigger \"secret\" compounds


DD#2
0.2 mg of -rone
1.2 mg of -nol
1.6 mg of -none
0.2 mg of couplins
VNO \"secret\" trigger compounds.

That may help some of those out there with figuring these mixes out of attempting replication with the chem sets. They actually surprised me when i pulled them together to get the low down on the compounds and amounts/ratios but seems to fit the responses fairly well that i get anyway.

[oscar]

Nimbus,

The info sheet I got when I first bought NPA probably pre-dated this one. This one suggests 4:1 and 5:2.
http://www.love-scent.com/reference/instructions/npa.html (\"http://www.love-scent.com/reference/instructions/npa.html\")

The one I had (and probably STILL have somewhere, since I never throw anything away) definitely suggested 4:1 or 5:1.

The 5:2 ratio is nearly as bad as 7:3 .
28.57% vs. 30% NPA content.

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You\'re right, I didn\'t read it throughly and didn\'t notice this strange 5:2 ratio... I\'m sure I received the very same NPA info sheet you have, since the ratios for the \"Cologne Spiking\" section in the Cookbook are taken from that paper, and they are 4:1 and 5:1...

Maybe the 5:2 is a typo? Anyway, the one which works best for me is 5:1.

[oscar]

Ditto /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Watcher]

Ditto im sure that you guys will find a way to tweak this formula to come up with a better outcome. I tried the 95% SOE to 5% NPA batch and am finding it works probably a little better than the original DD mix. So now for you guys to come up with a name for this mix. Any ideas other than DD Lite. ?

[krtel]

Watcher,

What is the mixing ratio for DD lite? 95% SoE, 5% NPA. Thanks.

- Krish

[Watcher]

In any 10ml mixture it would be as follows.

9.5 mls of SOE to 0.5 mls of NPA
In other words 19 parts SOE to 1 part NPA to make a total 20 parts all up.

Does that help anymore?

[krtel]

Yup, I got it. Thanks a lot! I can\'t wait till my SoE gets here on Friday! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

- Krish

[Watcher]

Good luck on friday.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Good luck on friday.

<hr></blockquote>Best of luck!