TOTAL self-improvement

[xxxPantero]

Okay, so here\'s what we all know so far... (at least I know)

Improve this: By doing/using this

Smell: Pheromones, Celery (take celery seeds)
Skin: Vitamin B (helps with skin, and to clean out your kidneys) your skin is your other kidney. Drink water before you sleep and when you wake up. So clean your inside, and it will show on the outside. Wash, tone, moisturize. Wash to get the dirt off, tone to clean out the pores. After you tone, your pores will be open, so it\'s very important that you fill those pores with moisturizers and beneficial creams, or else your pores will pick up dirt and lead to pimples. And don\'t pop the pimples you already have, they will go away (only pop it if it will do you serious mental damage not to /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif )
Hair: ???
Muscles: Workout, take ZMA (zinc magnesium aspartate, helps out all of testosterone\'s functions, without giving you a hormone imbalance)
Speech: Ross Jeffries NLP
Money: Online business of mine /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif, FastTrain.com

Alright, so I have no problems with the body. I\'m seriously lacking in the mind department. I\'m more dionysian than apollo, and although i\'d like to be more in control of my emotions, i don\'t want to be dry.

So far, the books that have been pretty good are:

The inner game of tennis (not about tennis at all, about discovering oneself)
The Celestine prophecy.

Remember, some people are on a budget, so if anyone knows any low-price things, let us know!

And I\'m not sure if Tony Robbins is as good as the hype (and price).
Anyone know any other tips for TOTAL self-improvement?

[druid]

hey fasttrain is a certification thing in south florida? I live in south florida. xxxPantero -- do you think it is better to get your degree in computer science (with the econmy the way it is now) because I get a BS in comp science this december from FIU.

[xxxPantero]

Well, i\'m not doing fasttrain myself, i go to MDCC Kendall and study Business Administration.

As far as the job market, you should check out: www.bls.gov/oco (\"http://www.bls.gov/oco\")

It\'s the OCCUPATIONAL HANDBOOK

you can check out the projected Job Market, schooling requiremnet, etc for any occupation.

but fast train says it helps with job placement, so that might overcome that obstacle.
but yeah, keep looking for a job!
if you are really in need of a high-paying job
Nuclear Med-Tech pays $45 dollars an hour to start, and you need about 15 months of school and training, and it\'s always in high demand, since it\'s a medical job. i was going to do that, but i can finish getting my MBA in the next 18 months, so it\'s not that big of a difference

so check the website, see if it helps.

[Watcher]

He he self improvement lol.

www.pshollow.freeservers.com/custom.html (\"http://www.pshollow.freeservers.com/custom.html\")

[xxxPantero]

Anything for Height increases?

I\'d like to grow a healthy 3-4 inches.

[xvs]

Sure. You could try this method:

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=103354&command=displayConte nt&sourceNode=103331&contentPK=2504190 (\"http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=103354&command=displayConte nt&sourceNode=103331&contentPK=2504190\")

Or if you\'re young enough to still be growing, get growth hormone injections...

[xxxPantero]

c\'mon guys, anyone know any other places for even more self-improvement, or self-betterment, or giving yourself an edge, (or whatever you want to call it)?

anything that will help someone get laid.
anything that will help someone get stonger
anything

c\'mon. share your secrets! it\'s just us! as long as we don\'t leak it to people outside of the board, then we won\'t have a whole lot of competition!

[Watcher]

Really google is my best friend all sorts of things.

Accelerated learning. Speed reading, mega memory and mind mapping thats it.

[Whitehall]

How about reading
\"The Great Books of Western Civilization\"
\"The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire\"
or even \"Starship Troopers\" (the book)?

Have you tried the US Army/Navy/Marine/Air Force boot camp? What about volunteering some of your time and energy to helping the poor and less fortunate of the world, even just your neighbor?

The absolutely BEST thing a man or a woman can do to improve themselves is build their character and wisdom. You can be pretty, you can be smooth, you can be muscular, you can smell good, but if your soul still deserves to be on one of the lower levels of Hell, then you are not much in my view. Living up to a sense of duty to make some payback to the world for whatever advantages and opportunities you\'ve been given is the path to self-improvement. Do you have a plan to leave the world a better place? Are you working that plan?

I say all this knowing that I\'m still a work in progress although experience in life has taught me that what\'s inside is what really counts. Serenity is knowing deep down that it is just not all about \"Me.\"

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bravo, bravo! Very well said, Whitehall...I could not agree more. Now if only more people thought that way (instead of just thinking about themselves), the world would be a _much_ better place...

\"All alone or in twos, the ones who really love you walk up and down outside the wall.\"

[proteus]

since some books are being recommended I\'d add:

Tao Te Ching (taoist thought/philosophy)
Book of Five Rings (eastern classic on strategy)
Atlas Shrugged (objectivism)

I measure a book\'s value not by whether I agree with everything in it, but whether I learnt something new that facilitated new growth/expansion of the mind.

[CptKipling]

xvs

Would not recomend that surgury.

There was a program on the telly about it a while ago, a bad experience all around.

xxxPantero: What is the best ZMA.

[xxxPantero]

i don\'t know the best one...

i usually trust GNC

as they have a mid-range of the dosage (90mg) instead of a high dosage (150mg)

i\'m not a huge guy, so i just take the low dosage ones.
you should read up some more on it to determine which one is better for your body.

as far as getting taller through surgery... no
i did find one \"grow taller\" guide and supposedly if i take the right amount of vitamins (zinc and calcium, largely) and i do enough of the specified stretching exercises (about 30 min each day) that stimulate growth to my spine, i will gain a maximum of 4 inches.
the theory sounds rational, and i\'ve seen in yoga ads that say the stretching exercises elongates the spine, and since that is not what the yoga is selling, it is probably a fact that stretching and bending enough elongates the spine (if you stretch to stimulate the back muscles).

i\'ve just started, will take 4-6 months for results (gain of 3 inches), plus working out and swimming might help a bit, too. Wish me luck!

i am 5\'8\'\' or 5\'9\" currently
i hope to be 5\'11\"-6\'0\" by April, we\'ll see how that goes.


and as far as doing stuff for other people and joining the army...

i\'m too much of a clusterf.u.c.k sometimes to be in the army
but......................................
i do give to the homeless charity every single day
i saw a homeless person sleeping near a hotel, so i put some money under a rock, and started a chain reaction with the people who saw me do it (hpoefully he ended up with a lot)
i usually stop to help people with car trouble or at least let them make a call on my cell, especially when it\'s raining
i lend all my friends books (for free) on self-improvement that i had to PAY for, ie girl getting, sex tips, strategy, self-help
i try to not treat the disabled or handicapped like they are lower than me, or are in constant need of my help - most of them can fend for themselves perfectly fine

i\'m not a nice person all around, but maybe giving just a little bit will save my soul

p.s. speaking about the army, what does AWOL stand for? i\'m constantly hearing it used, and i don\'t know what it means! i know FUBAR means \"f-ed up beyond all recognition\", but what are some other interesting abbreviations?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i\'d like to write a book filled with depressing stories of human life, named \"Jalapeno Pepper Soup for the Soul\"

[SwingerMD]

Absent
With-
Out
Leave

[Buddydust]

Hi xxxPantero,I was wondering where you bought your \"grow taller\" guide from? Also,you mentioned that celery seeds help improve your pheromone smell ? Where did you abtain yours from? And last,but not least,are there any eye improvement courses out there? Sorry about all the questions.

[Buddydust]

While I\'m still here....Any improvement sites for inexpensive,trendy clothes and/or dancing sites(hip-hop,swing,etc.)?

To Watcher:Where did you find your Accelerated learning,Speed reading, mega memory and mind mapping programs from?

I know,so many questions,so little time.

[marv14yag]

I think it has to do MORE with your attitude towards it...\"I\'m only good if I gain more muscle, if I get better clothes...\" Look, that\'s JUST why the sorry guy is getting laid...Because, he does have the synIACAL attitude, listen, just go over there, and ask the girl you know, get your attitude up, everything else will follow, you\'ll WANT to look good, instaed of \"I\'m just doing this so people will like more, or so so and so girl will want me...\" Listen, people can see RIGHT through you.

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

For real improvement and positive changes, I\'d highly recommend the Tony Robbins course , Personal Power II.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Doesn\'t drinking water before you go to bed make you have to pee in the middle of the night?

[Watcher]

Well yeah of course it makes you pee in the middle of the night.

http://www.theentertainmentcompany.nl/divas/ (\"http://www.theentertainmentcompany.nl/divas/\")

[CptKipling]

Good basic principal for improving your attitude:

If you reallise you owe nothing to the world, the world will have far greater respect for you. Whatever you do should be for yourself, people you care about, and for the greater good.

[marv14yag]

I aggree.

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Post deleted by patchy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well yeah of course it makes you pee in the middle of the night.

I wouldn\'t recommend it then. Or if you do make sure you make it to the bathroom.

[Whitehall]

Cpt. Kipling,

I\'d say just the other way around,

\"Realize that the world OWES you nothing.\"

And that your very existence is due to the sacrifice and efforts of those who came before. Now, its your turn.

[xxxPantero]

Okay, I have a couple of replies:

marv14yag: Most of what you said makes perfect sense, and some of it does apply to me. But, not all. I\'m already getting laid. My attitude IS up, these are the things that follow. I want to learn how to do everything! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif P.S. stop capitaLIZING the enD of almOST eveRY word YOU WRitE!

Jim: Does it really work, and where can I find that (legal or ripped, doesn\'t matter)?

others: if you drink only one glass of water before you go to sleep, you won\'t have to pee in the night. you\'ll just have very stiff morning wood (the purpose of morning wood is to hold back pee) your body takes care of itself.

I have a tendency to overcompensate for my shortcomings. Someone once told me I sucked at playing the drums, and I practiced like a maniac until I became the best drummer in my old high school, and everyone in the band agreed. If it sounds like bragging, oh well, it\'s just the truth.
I do the same thing with sports. My opponent will never beat me twice, if they give me enough time between the first time and the second time.

I am an extremist!

---------------------------------------------------------------
Favorite song for today: Trina feat. Ludacris - Be Alright/ICU

[DrSmellThis]

Though I respect it very much, I personally never related to the \"I owe the world\" thing, \'cause I\'m in enough debt as it is! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Has a negative, religious feel to me. I just like to think it\'s fun to give and share, especially when you are able to use your gifts and passions in the world. Having a place is very fulfilling. \"Duties\" just weigh me down.

[DrSmellThis]

Has anybody tried celery seed?!

[xxxPantero]

yes i have

[CptKipling]

Whitehall,

Yes, you\'re right, that should be in there aswell. I still stand by my original post. The first post was assuming that your point had already been accepted.

[DrSmellThis]

So tell us your celery seed experiences -- and why seed and not celery? Is that where the mones are?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Pantero ;

It\'s a great program. But ... you have to listen and do it. Just because you buy the program and listen to it doesn\'t mean you\'ll make the changes. But the program is so good the way it\'s laid out you will look forward to every day and the doing next step.

Without a doubt the best thing of it\'s kind I ever invested in. Made big changes for me. And what\'s so cool is if you find yourself slipping in this area or that ... you listen to the tape concerning that and you\'re back on track. If you can get the CD\'s instead of the tapes , it makes tha that search alot easier when your looking for something specific.

I also have \'The Edge\' but actually I feel if you have PP2 , you don\'t need The Edge. I bought that last year because I became such a believer in the guys stuff that I just bought it, but I see it as PP2 re-hashed. I\'ve also been to one of his live seminars which is really something else ... very intense !

But yeah, the program really works if you do it - and believe me after the first day or two , you won\'t miss a day.

Good Luck .... I\'ll check in to hear all sorts of good things from you as you do it !

Jim


http://www.personalpower.com/images/products_header.gif (\"http://www.personalpower.com/images/products_header.gif\")

[xxxPantero]

i take the seeds instead of the celery stalks because celery tastes like s.hit

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You should check out Prevention magazine. Reading just one issue will give you lots of stuff you can do for yourself. It also seems to me very balanced and unbiased. Then there\'s also Men\'s Health and other such magazines, which should (IMNSHO) be taken with a grain of salt.

[Watcher]

Really though do they mention pheromones or is this stuff still ignored with a pinch of salt added for good measure, i will have to try and find prevention magazine and have a good read, so if its balanced and unbiased the nthat is good, thanks patchy.

http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/ (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/\") Visit this website new updates soon.

[sabSpeaks]

Hey xxxPantero:

Are you still having acne problems? You said you are on Vitamin B; do you mean Vitamin B5?

You\'re talking to a B5 veteran, I\'ve completely cleared my mild-moderate acne using it. If you need any help in the acne arena, feel free to ask me.

Greg

[xxxPantero]

actually i was taking B6, but i\'ll try the B5

won\'t that give me a bunch of acne at first to \"clear out my system\" first, though?

also...
i stopped taking protein shakes since they made me fart constantly....eeeeeeeeeew

anyway, you guys think a skinny guy will be able to get big without the protein? thx

[Watcher]

Look guys horny goatweed and tribulus will do the job in raising natural phero levels to a level where its effective. Dont know about acne, the protein shakes make you fart no end (does me) easily handled though with iron supplements for soem reason. Well you will need a certain amount of protein = amino acids (needed for normal functioning - eat plenty of red meat as a result it will do the job)

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

[DrSmellThis]

Watcher, chances are the farting is
1. food combinations (protein + simple carbs)
2. Lactose intolerance (milk is common ingredient)
-either problem is addressable.

[Watcher]

It would be the carb protein combo - i eat plenty of carbohytdrates (bread and cereal) plus the protein shakes with milk. I dont have a lactose intolerance (full cream all the way) therefore its the carbs. It doesnt worrying me to much iron seems to help as does zinc C and magnesium. Thanks for the advice on how to address it.

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

[xxxPantero]

Whitehall,

I\'ve really been pondering over your comments about doing more for other people. I do a little bit, but not much (except to the person who I help).

You really made me rethink my goals.

I\'ve come up with a program called the Second Chance Program, although it still needs a lot of planning, but the basics are there. All I need to do now is to finish school and start working enough so I can fund it. But before I do that, I\'m going to start volunteering at a homeless shelter after I\'m finished volunteering at a clinic.

Now, the reptilian part of my brain says it will look good on my future resumes.
But my emotional side can already picture the face of someone who is so grateful they cry.

I think that is the one thing that tops sex, and I have a theory of why. Sex feels good on a subconscious mental level because you\'re promoting your fellow species. Helping out another human probably evokes the same feelings, but without the addition of physical pleasure (except for the warmth you feel).

I\'ve added SOUL-Improvement to my goals, but my other ones aren\'t gone. I\'ll just have to improve whatever is in my reach at the moment.

On another note, does anyone here know anything about Lucid Dreaming?
There is a theoretical physicist who learned to control his dreams at will. I don\'t have the time to do more research on it, but I know tihs much:
It takes \"practice\" dreaming
You will be able to dream WHAT you want
In that dream you will have complete control
Your body will feel everything as real - you will be able to manipulate your brain\'s electrical impulses

Think of it as \"The Matrix\" and you are The One.

Anyway. Thanks Whitehall.

[Watcher]

I try to see where i can make a difference with pheros it just allows me to get a better hearing from people and therefore even the most pig-headed people are more willing to listen and follow through with youre ideas. At least i can implement things i want to happen. The most important is social advancement and helping those less fortunate and also technological development to better our standard of living and also environmental technology ie solar power and those sort of new technologies that enhance our environment.

[Whitehall]

Thanks, Mr. xxxPantero, for considering my suggestions. I\'m NOT saying that everyone has to run out and become a \"Do-Gooder.\" Some people ONLY find satisfaction in helping others and that may not be for you.

I always think of the old time sailors in their big sailing ships. They\'re up in the rigging, luffing their mainstays or whatever, in a big storm, the boat tossing and turning. They need to watch out for themselves and they need to get the ship in a condition to weather the storm. Their saying was \"One hand for the ship and one hand for yourself.\" That\'s been my guide to life - we all need to help make the world at least a little better place to live and then we\'ll all live better.

Some biologists suggest that there is an altruism gene in humans. We all have some degree of impulse to help others in the group. It certainly helps keep the group together and since humans have some \"pack\" behaviors, it helps with our survival. A single person in the wild or in modern society isn\'t very competitive against a group.

[Whitehall]

Let me re-emphasis reading.

Whenever I face a new challenge or undertake a new project, the first thing I do is find a good book on the subject and read it. There are very few problems that I will have to face that someone else, at some time in the past, hasn\'t already faced AND written a book about. They may have conquered or they may have failed, but you can learn from the mistakes of others.

That includes living one\'s life. People have been doing that and writing about their successes and their failures for thousands of years. Whether its moving out of your parents\' house, selecting a mate, writing your will, or taking up a life of crime - its been done.

Most of us are applying that practice to our use of pheromones by accessing this Forum. The bigger questions have also been tackled - you just need to spend some time learning and thinking. It can save you a life of grief.

That\'s why I say that you need to think of others and give back, at least a little, to the world. It\'s a principle that has been understood, tested, and accepted for thousands of years of human experience. Doing otherwise has proven, over and over again, to lead to regrets.

[CptKipling]

Very wise words Whitehall.

[Whitehall]

Thanks for the compliments but let\'s talk about something more fun....drunk, horny women!

[franki]

I know something better. Let´s talk about drunk, horny women under the influence of pheromones. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Guys, for pete\'s sake, get it right. DUMB, drunk, desperate. Just remember the three D\'s.

[franki]

dumb, drunk, desperate and delicious ....

[Whitehall]

Make that the 5 or maybe 6 Ds - don\'t forget the D-cups!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, now it\'s T-triple-D

Tittified, dumb, drunk, and desperate.

Tittified being a technical term, you understand.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Make that the 5 or maybe 6 Ds - don\'t forget the D-cups!

<hr></blockquote>Seven.
Don\'t forget the pheros...

dumb, drunk, desperate, delicious, d-cup, d-cup, drooling...

[Gerund]

Hmmmm....

The only \"Ds\" I\'d prefer would be *delicious* (already mentioned)... and I\'d like to add **daring,** as in adventurous and imaginative~ Yeah, baby! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Whitehall]

Maybe we should get back to SELF-improvement. I think we got a little carried away. /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Maybe we should get back to SELF-improvement. I think we got a little carried away.

<hr></blockquote>Interesting train wreck.

[Gerund]

** \"Tittified\" **

Son-of-a-gun, I like that term... hehe

Is it okay if I use that, FTR? I mean, like, you don\'t have it copyrighted, do you?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, by all means, please do use it.

[Funlover]

Hey FTR...

If laughter is the best medicine, you\'ve sure given me plenty of it!!! Thank you!

Funlover

[DrSmellThis]

Screw self-improvement!

Lets get nekkid!
/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif

[sabSpeaks]

Yeah.

\"Self improvement is masturbation. Now self-destruction...\"
- Tyler Durden

[xxxPantero]

Okay then.

I officially rename this post \"TOTAL masturbation.\"

Anyone want to help?

[BassMan]

Sure /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif That better?

[franki]

LOL ...

[Watcher]

Lol

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Why, I\'m surprised you need help, xxxPantero, with all the practice you\'ve had ...

[Buddydust]

LoL,Like They Say,\"Practice Makes Perfect\".........

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

LoL,Like They Say,\"Practice Makes Perfect\".........

<hr></blockquote>Not to mention, Lucky Pants...

[sabSpeaks]

heh

The quote wasn\'t referring to masturbation literally; it\'s supposed to be a metaphor. Self-improvement feels good while you\'re doing it, has a climax, and leaves you right back where you started.

Greg

[proteus]

re: self-improvement masturbation &lt;----- Don\'t do it or moderate. It helps your game - motivates you to go out there and approach the women plus the buildup of sexual energy is something she\'ll pickup on and make you that much more attractive to fems.

[EXIT63]

Hey Proteus,
That\'s a GREAT idea but it\'s easier said than done.

[Buddydust]

Does anyone know if Growth Hormones are effective and safe? I was thinking about trying them out.

[xvs]

Growth hormones are effective, not that safe, very expensive, only available from doctors, and must be injected. Typical costs run to $2500 or more per month for treatments.

There are loads of fake \"growth hormone\" products on the market, and you can tell that they are fake because:

- real growth hormone must be kept refrigerated and is fresh only for a few weeks
- real growth hormone must be injected. If you were to take it orally, it would simply be digested.
- real growth hormone is very very expensive

There is an alternative to HGH (human growth hormone) injections, and that is secretagogues. These are substances which cause the body to increase its own HGH output, however the most effective of these are produced by pharmaceutical companies and are currently still under clinical trial.

There is some evidence that fairly large doses of the amino acid arginine cause increased HGH output, however there is also some evidence that increased HGH is associated with some cancers such as colon cancer.

Bottom line: Don\'t waste money on any product that claims to \"contain real human growth hormone!\". They are all fake and/or useless. If you really want to increase HGH you could take 2-4 gm of arginine per day, but it may not be totally safe to do so.

[DrSmellThis]

Homeopathic growth hormone works for many, and is totally safe. I tried it, and noticed my voice lowered and I started sleeping like a baby.

[MOBLEYC57]

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO WIN MR. OLYMPIC? ALL YOU NEED IS SOME GOOD PROTEIN, CREATINE, TRIBEX500, ZMA, A GOOD DIET, SLEEP, AND A WILL TO GROW!! STOP GAMBLING WITH YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU WANT AN OVERNIGHTER!! TIME AND TRAINING WILL GET YOU THERE. ON THE FOLLOWING PRODUCTS, AND KNOWING THE PROTEIN WINDOWS, I WILL BE MORE THAN GLAD TO SEND YOU A PIC OF WHAT I LOOKED LIKE BEFORE I QUIT SMOKING, AND TWO MONTHS AFTER I QUIT, JUST SEND ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS. I WAS AMAZED AND HAPPY, AND I COULDN\'T STOP EATING. THE PROTEIN WINDOW DID AMAZING THINGS TO ME. READ, EXPERIMENT, AND STOP LISTENING TO EVERYBODY\'S SUPPOSINGLY SECRETS. 1 HOUR AND 30 MINUTES IS THE MAX AMOUNT OF TIME ONE SHOULD TRAIN, BECAUSE YOUR TESTOSTERONE DROPS AFTER 90 MINUTES, AND UNLESS YOU\'RE DOING SOMETHING STUPID LIKE JUICING, YOU\'RE WASTING YOUR TIME. PEOPLE OFTEN FORGET TO TELL INQUIRING MINDS THAT THEY ARE TAKING STERIODS, WHICH IS WEAK IN MY BOOK. NEVER BE ASHAMED OF NOTHING YOU DO, IF YOU\'RE JUICING, SAY YOU\'RE JUICING!! DON\'T DO IT!!!

[xvs]

Probably a placebo effect.

Homeopathics of all kinds have been extensively tested and as far as I know, controlled tests have never found them to be more effective than a placebo. But those placebo effects can be quite strong and useful.

Read this review article and make your own decisions:

http://www.naturalinvestor.com/nutritionsciencenews/NSN_backs/Nov_00/vanitymeds.cfm (\"http://www.naturalinvestor.com/nutritionsciencenews/NSN_backs/Nov_00/vanitymeds.cfm\")

[DrSmellThis]

I respect and share an attitude of skepticism in general.

I was told by a natural practitioner familiar with that research that there\'s a big difference in \"homeopathic\" formulas -- in particular HgH formulas, most of which aren\'t rigorously constructed -- and that there is indeed a more recent study out using a well made tincture that suggested the authentic homeopathic mixture helped the effects of the shots continue after the shots were stopped, when compared with a placebo. That\'s the brand I used. (I could find out the brand. It was not a spray.). The effect felt strong to me and to a friend of mine, whom I respect intellectually.

On the other hand, if one believes there\'s nothing to the idea that energetic components of matter have effects, as do the authors of that article, then one is likely to dismiss homeopathy out of hand.

The article talks exclusively about \"molecules\", and how the molecules can\'t get into the blood. Any lurking Naturopaths can correct me if I misspeak here, but this kind of homeopathy (as opposed to the \"hair of the dog\" kind) is not about the molecules at all. It\'s about the physics. It\'s about the sort of imprint (imagine something like a magnetic field) left in an aqueous solution when the molecules of a substance are systematically and gradually removed from it, through a rigorous dilution and hand secussion process. As molecules get removed, the imprint gets more defined, and the homeopathic potential gets stronger.

The referenced article dismisses hand secussion and energy effects without further comment. Yet the \"psuedo-homeopathic\" tinctures used in the \"nay-saying\" study were mixed by industrial machines, which according to homeopathy typically ruins the delicate imprinting process (through electro-magnetic contamination).

There is a certain amount of prejudice against homeopathy in the academic and allopathic medical community. But even according to traditional scientific standards, research that doesn\'t give a condition the strongest chance to succeed on it\'s own terms lacks \"construct validity\", as research methodologists say, due to \"measurement\" or \"instrumentation\" problems, and also lacks \"statistical power\". I mention this because you are a bio-researcher.

[xvs]

The idea that there\'s some kind of \"imprint\" that gets stronger as you remove more and more molecules til all that\'s left is \"imprinted water\" has no basis in current physics, nor has it been borne out in tests.

Here is a good review article which discusses this:

http://www.phys.hawaii.edu/vjs/www/med/homeop.html (\"http://www.phys.hawaii.edu/vjs/www/med/homeop.html\")

[DrSmellThis]

Thanks. I read it. I found the article interesting, but inconclusive compared to the author\'s confident discussion. Meta analysis is problematic due to statistical problems (alpha level corrections are rarely done, and when done, almost always render results statistically insignificant and inconclusive. The authors ignore the issue.), methodological inconsistencies, and other reasons. So that article is really difficult to interpret. The authors seem to give uneven emphasis to the studies reviewed, and completely dismiss scads of studies due to methodological problems. Finally they seem to settle on a few studies they regard as important, which could well have turned out the way they did due to chance. (this is the alpha correction problem). I\'d have to look at it much more in depth to understand why all the positive results they cite should be ignored when most all the research either way is clearly flawed.

Here\'s a review that says the opposite of yours. I don\'t know what to make of it either without spending 3 months on it.

<a target=\"_blank\" href=http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_bio/research.htm>http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_bio/research.htm</a>

I tend to wonder whether researcher preconceptions aren\'t the major determinant of results. I\'m not confident either way. The degree of authoritarian scoffing by traditionalists or unbridled enthusiasm by homeopaths certainly can\'t be taken to mean much.

The fact that mainstram physics can\'t account for homeopathy seems to indicate to you that there\'s no physical basis for it. I don\'t know. Reality seems bigger than what corporate/government/academic egos and their fearful colleagues allow for. There\'s lots of research about structured water involving MRI technology, (from Japan, I think) although it\'s not accepted by the mainstream institutions. I do like to see clear evidence someone can well think outside the box, and even has a taste for it, before I would trust their terse, authoritative scoffing.

[a.k.a.]

The physics of homeopathy is discussed in “The Field” by Lynne McTaggart. Not being a physicist, I can only say that it doesn’t sound any more far-fetched than Stephen Hawkins “The Universe in a Nutshell”.
Of the homeopathic remedies that I’ve tried, I can only vouch for Oscillococcinum (manufactured by Boiron), which reduces flu symptoms better than any conventional remedy I\'ve tried.

As far as self-improvement...

The best thing I ever did for myself was to take up yoga as a teenager. At my age (almost 44), the benefits to flexibility alone are worth the time spent. But I’m convinced that it also improves mental clarity, emotional stability, and overall health at a more fundamental level than regular exercise.

About four years ago I took up aikido and have noticed many positive effects from that as well. I would say the self-defense applications are no more questionable than any other martial art.( Who can train you to dodge bullets? At least aikido teaches you how to take a fall without hurting yourself.) But the effects on overall attitude are superior to Tae Kwon Do — which I studied in my twenties. Practice consists of a few limbering up exercises and a lot of non-competitive, structured sparring. So you really get your aggressions out (without the extra baggage of winners vs. losers) and end up feeling calm, balanced and in control. Sometimes I walk out of the dojo feeling unconditional love for the whole human race. But, no, it doesn’t last long.

[MaxiMog]

Cool! Gonna consider taking up Aikido after my lessons at college! Always wanted to do Martial arts, but never knew which one to do. Aikido probably isn\'t as popular (at least here) as the other ones, and I kinda like that.

[Whitehall]

If the active ingredient is in a fluid at body temperature, how can one \"leave\" a structure without preventing Brownian motion?

As to feeling unconditional love for the whole human race, that\'s dangerous because the whole human race does not love you.

[DrSmellThis]

Unconditional love clarifies street smarts, rather than hinders, as long as it\'s applied to yourself. And most of us should be pretty good at that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Watcher]

Its easier to help those who help themselves and others and to ignore the rest of the world unless you can get something out of it as well. A very dangerous discussion point that one.

Screw the world me first seems to be best.

[BassMan]

In my rather limited understanding, unconditional love seems to be based more on understanding and compassion than on emotion - springing from the intuition, often carefully developed though long practice, that we are all in this boat together, and that ultimately what affects one of us, affects us all.

It does not depend upon anyone doing anything _back_. If it did, it wouldn\'t be unconditional.

[DrSmellThis]

Well to the point. Your understanding is none too limited.

[Whitehall]

Back to \"structure\".....

Is one to abandon Brownian motion to support \"left structure in fluids\" and homeopathy? Or is there some way to reconcile the two contradictory theories?

Actually, Brownian motion is easily observed with one\'s own eyes in a microscope and so is probably more than a theory while the effectiveness of homeopathy is seldom supported in objective, statistically valid tests. Brownian motion in turn is a foundation of the atomic theory.

Is there physical evidence for \"left structure\"?

[a.k.a.]

Most people don’t realize the fear, anger, and insecurity that they live with every day. These emotional states insinuate themselves into the muscles of our body, eventually disfiguring our faces and wrecking our postures. Worse they disfigure our world views and wreck our capacity to connect with others. Drugs, philosophy and psychotherapy don’t adequately address this problem of psycho-somatic armoring. You have to work the kinks right out of your nervous system.

I don’t know what it is about aikido, but it works the kinks out (at least for me). At first the moves seem counter-intuitive. You enter the opponent\'s attack, rather than backing away or trying to stand your ground. Eventually the logic of this becomes clear. Whenever someone exerts force against you they are projecting their center of gravity. If your timing is right, you can step in and snatch it from them. This gives you the leverage to drop them, flip them, throw them, twist their bodies into submission... When I experience that kind of control, all the anxieties and frustrations of the day are fogotten.

Unconditional love is our natural state when we have nothing to fear. Of course it’s dangerous. But traditionally that’s what bushido’s all about: learning how to lay your life on the line. Anybody that says they teach self-defense is a fraud. In the final analysis, there is no defense. So we might as well learn to live courageously = lovingly.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thank you, that was so good.

[a.k.a.]

Whitehall,

From what I’ve read, it’s not about the molecules themselves but the frequency at which they vibrate. A “signature frequency” is supposed to remain in a properly deionized solution. Not trying to defend homeopathy. (Like I said, I’ve only found one homeopathic formula that works for me.) I just don’t understand what Brownian motion has to do with it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I regularly use a homeopathic remedy for computer eye strain. It\'s effective and has made my work life a lot more comfortable.

There are a lot of things in the world that just work, whether you can prove them with paper and pencil or not. Homeopathy, I think, is one of them. Don\'t knock it till you\'ve tried it. ...

[xxxPantero]

hey i noticed that whenever someone gets a compliment on a post, they are more likely to post again, myself included...

this observation is another \"tip of an iceberg\" don\'t you all think?

[Whitehall]

I was not denying that certain products do have an effect.

What I\'m trying to understand is \"why\" they might work, specifically the theory behind homeopathy. One theory put forward is this \"left structure\" idea that appears to be to be very difficult to integrate with other theories that have a long and illustrious track record of explaining a lot of things. If I have to chose between atomic theory and Brownian motion versus \"left structure\" or \"residual vibrations\", I\'ll stick with the former.

The explanations have never been cogent in the least to me but I\'m glad to hear one of my esteemed forum colleagues give it a shot.

I\'m listening.....

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'ll have to listen, too. This conversation\'s over my head. What\'s Brownian whatever, while we\'re waiting for one of your esteemed colleagues to give you an answer that\'s up to par.

And, Whitehall. What are we doing with Iraq? Do you think we\'re all going to die?

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Unconditional love is our natural state when we have nothing to fear. Of course it’s dangerous. But traditionally that’s what bushido’s all about: learning how to lay your life on the line. Anybody that says they teach self-defense is a fraud. In the final analysis, there is no defense. So we might as well learn to live courageously = lovingly.

<hr></blockquote>There is a form of massage called Chua Ka. It\'s been probably twenty-five years since I\'ve really studied it. It is a deep-tissue massage done partially with a rounded stick, partially with the fingers. The fingers are used on the face, the stick, which can penetrate much more deeply, elsewhere.

As you have said, it is only possible to express unconditional love in the absence of fear. As you have also said, it is only possible to fight with complete power in the absence of the experience of fear. It is only possible to end the experience of fear by clearing its storage in the body.

Legend has it that the ancient Sumarian warriors used Chua Ka to clear the fear from their bodies after each battle. I tend to take legends metaphorically.

Unconditional love is an act of will, only able to be performed when the soul has been sufficiently cleansed to act from the pure instincts.

a.k.a.:
I completely agree. Acting from the pure instincts, without fear, is our birthright.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Or if you\'re the tarot\'s Fool and you just don\'t have the good sense to care about the consequences of loving unconditionally.

[xxxPantero]

i don\'t think love is unconditional - it goes against our nature

i tried telling this to my mom, and she didn\'t believe me, so i demonstrated:

i said \"hold out your arms, open wide\"

and she did it.

i came closer to her like i was going to hug her

and then i hit her in the chest lightly, but enough to hurt

then i said \"open your arms again\"

and she wouldn\'t

so then i said to her \"that\'s love. don\'t tell me it\'s unconditional\"

then, to prove me wrong she, opened up her arms and said \"no, look, a second chance\"

i stepped towards her and her arms closed a little bit, but not all the way

and i said \"you may be trying to love unconditionally now, but your mind/heart has learned that \'this person will hurt you\' and so you don\'t hold your arms open as much\"

that\'s love.

[BassMan]

to challenge your mother in this way is the highest thing you can conceive of at this time.

[xxxPantero]

no, i don\'t lose

it\'s a different relationship with my mother than you had with yours

but hey, judge if you want, you will regardless of what i say

[Watcher]

Loving unconditionaly applies to those that also love unconditionally, for there are the users out there who will use the tarots fools to their advantage and still return nothing to the world. By our very presence and activity on this forum we are contributing to others improvements to self-confidence and sex life.

Confidence, sense of wellbeing and sexual happiness are very closley linked therefore an improvement in sex means that a large percentage of those people are happy.

No sex = some very aggressive and frustrated people in society - this is why prostitution is championed in some quarters as it gives some men a realise system. On the other hand mad men are also drawn to hookers meaning that they beat them up and treat them like meat.

Its a double edged sword.

Now back to homeopathy well its great all the nutricinal ideas are very benefical - maybe one day pheromones will be incorparated into the sphere of alternative treatments/ideas/products.

Along with magnetic pillows and slimming machines. I only approach tarot with interest and fun anyone that takes it seriously is fooling themselves and has low life direction and motivation. Linked to low testostrone levels in men usually and women who havent been laid in a long time (FTR i think this was youre idea)

[a.k.a.]

Pantero,
If letting people hit you is what you call “love” then I have to agree that it goes against our nature at a very instinctive level. What I call “love” is the power to see that most acts of violence are rooted in deep seated feelings of inadequacy. Therefore, breaking your arms would be no solution because you’d find other, perhaps more dangerous, ways to lash out. So maybe that’s why your mom is supporting you. In the hope that you might make something of yourself and not feel so inadequate.

[Watcher]

Peoples inadequicies are related to a lack of percieved power in the world. This is linked deep down to them being ignored by the opposite sex, not getting enough sex, not getting laid enough, being ignored by women who want an alpha male and screw every other guy because he isnt a \"step up the ladder\" remember women never trade down and if you are at the bottom you got no chance - therefore they get aggressive with society and lash out. So is prostitution a such bad thing for such men who need a \"feeling\" of some success - even if it is just paying for sex when otherwise they would be left on the shelf by all women chasing \"prince charming and the white knight syndrome\"

20% of men get 80% of all sexual encounters.

[BassMan]

you are correct, of course. no judgment.

[xxxPantero]

hmmmmmmm.........

i didn\'t mean love is letting people hit you, i mean it works the same way - if someone hurts you, you love them less - that\'s why love is unconditional

love is the emotional though, not the physical part - she wouldn\'t have loved me if i had hurt her enough emotionally, would she? i doubt it

[xxxPantero]

bassman

you shouldn\'t have deleted your post

i respected your opinion, although i didn\'t feel it was correct or didn\'t agree with it

but oh well

thanks for the gesture though - i appreciate it

[Whitehall]

\"And, Whitehall. What are we doing with Iraq? Do you think we\'re all going to die?\"

In late 1941, Einstein sent a letter to the President of the United States telling him of a new discovery - the spliting of uranium atoms - that had the potential to make terrible weapons. The evidence for that discovery was little more than some squiggly lines on a chart - the purest science.

In FOUR years, the US had turned a very raw theory into an industrial machine for making nuclear weapons and had tested one in the New Mexico desert and dropped two in Japan killing maybe 160,000 people and ending the worst war in human history.

Iraq has been working on acquiring nuclear weapons since before the attack by the Israelis on the Orsik reactor in 1983. It has been FOUR years since the last inspectors visited Iraq. The technology for creating the raw materials and designing the weapons have been known for almost 60 years and is continually improving.

Frankly, Saddam Hussein has had a limited number of nuclear weapons since before the Gulf War (source: the highly enriched fuel for the reactor). That\'s why Bush 41 pulled back and let him stay in power - had the war gone nuclear, Bush would have been blamed and lost all political support.

If a small nuke had gone off at the World Trade Center, the deaths would have numbered in the tens or hundreds of thousands, not just thousands.

Bush 43 is perfectly correct in pressing for a regime change in Iraq.

May the Heavens protect our military people as they do their duty.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

you shouldn\'t have deleted your post

<hr></blockquote>Didn\'t delete it, attemped to edit it. Unfortuately, this forum doesn\'t always express process accurately.

For you to confront your mother in the way that you did simply expresses a lack of maturity at the time. To tell me that my relationship with my mother was different than yours without exploring who I am and was is just silly.

I am exploring these things with you because I did the exact same things with my own mother...

[xxxPantero]

oh okay

i didn\'t confront her, was illustrating a point to her - didn\'t mean to hurt her emotionally, and didn\'t hurt very badly physically, so i don\'t see how it is immature, exactly.

and you\'re right, i didn\'t know how your relationship was with your mother. but no two people\'s families are the same, no matter how similar.

but hey, explain what you did with your mother and how it was simriar, i\'m intrigued

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Watcher, tarot is a set of symbols, is all. It\'s just another way to talk about an idea. I didn\'t mean to promote card reading.

[EXIT63]

...What I call “love” is the power to see that most acts of violence are rooted in deep seated feelings of inadequacy...

Is that why missiles are shaped like Penises?

[CptKipling]

EXIT: Love Rockets.

This thread is deep. Unconditional love isnt an emotion, its a way of being. It relates to the purist ideals in humanity, priciply, that one must forgive, and forgive unconditionaly. It is true that when someone you love hurts you, it has a profound affect on you, as this is the gravest pain we can endure. Unconditional love is learning to love them again. It is these things that lead to the majority of the suffering in the world, as I said before, DNA is the root of all evil, somewhat tongue in cheek at the time, but still with the message that the need to reproduce and continue your genetic legacy causes huge conflicts. Think of the seven deadly sins, cant remember them all now, but I bet most of those could be traced back to love, and to our genes.

Unconditional love is inaffect the moral high ground, and the better way of living. All (the common ones anyway) the religions promote it. Of course it has risks, but what is life without risks.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

i respected your opinion, although i didn\'t feel it was correct or didn\'t agree with it

but oh well

thanks for the gesture though - i appreciate it

<hr></blockquote>Obviously, I didn\'t agree with my opinion either, once I thought about it.

Motherly love is not the same as unconditional love. Your mother may indeed love you regardless of what you do. But it\'s based on a different connection. Your mother physically birthed you. Her love is based on a physical connection that recognizes you as part of her own body. Her love has a strong hormonal component to it - mother nurtures offspring until offspring is able to take care of itself.

Unconditional love is a different kettle of fish.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Along with magnetic pillows and slimming machines. I only approach tarot with interest and fun anyone that takes it seriously is fooling themselves and has low life direction and motivation. Linked to low testostrone levels in men usually and women who havent been laid in a long time (FTR i think this was youre idea)

<hr></blockquote>Trolling again?

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

i didn\'t confront her, was illustrating a point to her - didn\'t mean to hurt her emotionally, and didn\'t hurt very badly physically, so i don\'t see how it is immature, exactly.

<hr></blockquote>I called it immature because you took advantage of your mother\'s trust in you to add pain and fear to her experience. It may not have been much, but it was enough so that she wouldn\'t open her arms. As we grow in experience, we hopefully learn to value trust and openness more than that.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

While I think unconditional love is a most worthy goal, it\'s also important to realize that you can love someone from a distance. If somebody hurts you repeatedly, it\'s dumb to stay around them, and I\'m with Tina Turner, \"What\'s Love Got To Do With It\" in a case like that. Don\'t confuse unconditional love with martyrdom - stay away from an abuser. You can love them from a distance.

[CptKipling]

I was mostly refering to minor things which hurt people. Unconditional love can and should be applied to society, but the word \"love\" tends to through people off. Not sure what you meant about becoming a martyr, I never advocated dying or acting recklessly. It is knid of futile talking about this, after all, who can accurately describe what love is? And furthermore, the difference between love and unconditional love.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

never mind

[upsidedown]

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i didn\'t confront her, was illustrating a point to her - didn\'t mean to hurt her emotionally, and didn\'t hurt very badly physically, so i don\'t see how it is immature, exactly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someday when you have kids of your own, hopefully they\'ll turn out to act just like you. Maybe then you\'ll understand what people have been trying to say.

[xxxPantero]

ah, now i see

[xxxPantero]

i\'d like to have kids like me

i do understand what people are saying already - everyone is shocked that i hurt my mother - understandable
she didn\'t mind though, her and i show each other things however we have to
that\'s why i say it\'s a slightly different dynamic

[Buddydust]

MobleyC57:Hi MobleyC57,Don\'t worry,I\'m definitely not juicing.I just wanted to add a couple of inches to my height.Thanks for your concern though.

xvs:I definitely don\'t want those type of growth hormones.Too costly and not safe like you said.Thanks for the info.

\"Homeopathic growth hormone works for many, and is totally safe. I tried it, and noticed my voice lowered and I started sleeping like a baby. \"

Hi DrSmellThis,if you don\'t mind me asking,where did you abtain your Homeopathic growth hormone at?

[MOBLEYC57]

How old are you Sir? I see you\'re still inquiring about Homeopathic growth hormones, which means you\'re still insearch of. I can\'t comment on HGH, but I will say, research and read before you leap. Some things are just not meant to be. Be careful...good health is a terrible thing to waste.

[DrSmellThis]

A place called Health Naturals in Portland, OR. I\'m sure you could find on the web in 10 seconds.

Ya know, if y\'all decide beforehand you\'re going to accept only the ideas of traditional, conservative textbook biology, medicine and physics as truth criteria, you\'re just not going to \"get\" homeopathy, or anything else related to energy medicine. You might even have trouble believing saw palmetto helps your prostate, as obvious as it is.

If you are sitting in your conservative \"arm chairs\", Archie Bunker style, waiting for the \"Edith of alternativity\" to bring you the \"beer of compelling open-mindedness\", well, it just ain\'t gonna happen. But I bet your ol\' La Salle ran great!

You\'ve gotta make the effort to understand yourself. Only after can you be convinced. Y\'all\'s continual refusals to entertain reasonable suggestions of how to bridge the two worlds of understanding (refusals similar to the form, \"Yeah whatever, but I\'m still not convinced.\") has evinced as much.

Citing that there is not evidence for such-and-such within traditional textbook science, and then saying \"therefore I can\'t believe it\" is a self-preserving tautology.

Yet the existence and potency of various energetic effects is demonstrable and in accord with common sense. In everyday life terms, Newtonian physics is very primitive and limited, as is western, allopathic medicine. Despite all their practical accomplishments, which are numerous, these bodies of knowledge are impotent in the face of most everyday, in the moment concerns.

Meanwhile, there are alternate approaches that excel in such mundane matters. People who commit to using only newtonian ideas are committed to using utterly random, unscientific and juvenile ideas and preconceptions for \"the rest of life\", which is huge.

Practically speaking, we ought to take a look at how these might work, in terms of their own explanations, and their own truth criteria for a while. Later, we can see possibilities for modifying established paradigms slightly to create bridges between the two worlds.


Of course there is little University or government research in alternative science, since these sources have always rejected alternative proposals for political reasons. Just recently a relatively few studies, studies designed by people predisposed to reject alternative paradigms anyway, have trickled in.

Nothing personal to anyone, but until you can think well outside the box on your own, and have a taste for it, you are not sufficiently qualified to be convinced. You are the boss of your own beliefs.

[EXIT63]

Well, It\'s Saturday Night and Docs on the sauce again.

hiccupp

[DrSmellThis]

lol.

[oscar]

EXIT,

I thought that was kinda rude.

I laughed my ass off, not once but twice!

Sounded like a line from \"Gunfight at the OK Corral\". /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[DrSmellThis]

It wasn\'t really rude, as it was a reference to the \"drunken evil twin\" post. It was mostly funny. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

I was totally sober, and am comfortable with what I said, by the way. There needs to be a variety of strong voices as \"checks and balances\" in a forum as wide-reaching as this one, which touches on so many topics central to our living.

That doesn\'t mean I believe that the growth hormone formula, in particular, is for everyone, or that it could never do any harm. One should research all that stuff carefully before deciding, consult a knowledgeable professional, and use one\'s own experience and intuition as well.

[EXIT63]

All in fun I assure you,

[Watcher]

The checks and balances are very much real on this forum. Drunken evil twin post, ive done that a few times also. But to have so many strong voices around here is good. We are becoming around here very knowledgeable and professionals around here.

But research for pheromones here is one of the best sources with so few people around that know more than we do, except for phil stone and james v kohl. But they are good sources and then the rest of us generating some sort of information also.

[xxxPantero]

http://www.menshealth.com/food2/power01.shtml (\"http://www.menshealth.com/food2/power01.shtml\")

think you guys might like this article from Men\'s Health... it also mentions the celery/pheromone thing.