Friends to Lovers - anyone had that really happen?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m getting really curious about this. I have never had it happen that it starts as friends and ends as lovers. It has sometimes started as lovers and ended as friends, but never the other way around. And as much as I\'ll argue with some of the hype you guys get from the various \"git girls\" websites, one thing I do think is right on is don\'t waste your time, if your objective is a sexual relationship, on a woman who wants to be your friend. If she wants you, something will start to happen pretty soon into your association. If she doesn\'t pretty soon into your association, she\'s very unlikely to change her mind later. This is my personal opinion/observation/experience, could be very wrong. I\'m wondering what you all think.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well FTR, I started a friendship (no sex) a few years back with a woman and then started dating her sister about 5 months later. I dated the sister for about a year and then became friends with her after the breakup. The original friend called up and said \"sorry to hear about you and my sister, maybe we can have dinner sometime\". After that dinner 6 months later, my friend became my new lover!!! It was kind of odd at first and the sisters had some differences, but it all worked out and I had a two hitter going!!!

Does this story qualify for you FTR?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sure, yes! That story\'s remarkable in several ways.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m still really good friends with both of them. Neither has asked about the other in the sack which I found interesting. I thought sisters would be curious about that. One was definitely better than the other and they are only 2 years apart in age. A rather good true story during my dating career...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dog!! :-) Which was better?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FTR, take a guess. And say what you based your pick on...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, I\'ll try. I say the first one, the one you wanted to begin with.

[SwingerMD]

FTR,

Actually, my best friend/girlfriend, Amanda, from high school were friends for about 1.5 years before we started to go out. One day just outta the blue she came and asked me, \"SwingMD, are you gay?\"

(!?)\". . . Uh no. Why are you asking me this?\"

She smiled and walked away. About a week later she asked me out to a dance. Anyhow to keep a long story short, things eventually didn\'t work out and we broke off our relationship after my Senior Prom. But we have kept in touch over the years and we are still go friends, in fact she took me around LA on the first day of my Swing Camp trip. So I guess this qualifies as a friends to lovers to friends.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

How long were you lovers?

[EXIT63]

Nope,
I\'m just now clawing my way out of the LJBF zone.
Really don\'t like it there at all. Been there too many times. But I\'m getting a little bit smarter with the help of this forum. And with the help of the short, plump, and curvy one.

I miss you Baby. Please come home.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, if you mean the original friend before I dated the sister - you would be correct! Although neither was a sexual ace, the first (the older sister) was much better in the sack and was really into oral both ways. The one I dated for a year, I could never get to really enjoy sex at all. It was like she was holding out the sex for ransom, kind of like running a mile for a potato chip, what was the point? That\'s why we broke up although I tried everything to enhance her performance. Although they were both very beautiful, the younger one had nicer features but the older one was cute and seasoned. They are both still part of my fan club (if you know what I mean). I\'ll never score that again soon...

[SwingerMD]

A little over a year.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Love you Exit

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This is what I\'m saying. I have a strong hunch this crap people talk about get to know each other, take your time, be friends, something will grow out of it...where are they getting this? It looks good on paper but it never seems to work. I think lovers know who they are right off. That\'s why I guessed it was your first pick. You knew. She for some reason couldn\'t get the signal, wasn\'t receptive to it, and it took her a little while to come around, but it\'s not like you sat around being platonic in the meantime. You moved on, to her sister, as it happens. But the thing that was meant to be was between you and the girl you wanted to begin with.

I think, Swinger, tell me if this could be true, that what you had was friends who checked each other out and are still friends.

[EXIT63]

Love you Exit
The Little Engine That Could ..

Now I can sleep.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Nice work, truly, JustHuge. I\'d imagine there\'d be all kinds of land mines to step on in that situation but you managed to keep everyone happy. Impressive.

[SwingerMD]

Yes, that sounds about right.

[Watcher]

Its interesting as to how to get out of the LJBF zone. My advice is to cut strings with those that dotn work out. Take the help of this forum - the short plump and curvy one has been a very big help. I say play smarter not harder and youll go far lol.

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, Watcher, nice to see you. Is this LJBF a Ross Jeffries thing, by the way? just curious and I thought you would know

[Watcher]

Well its Lets just be friends - and im not to into ross jeffiries some of his stuff is bullsh*t. But some of the basic terms and ideas can be applied fairly sensibily to the everyday things. Watcher is still around. Its where you ask a girl out and she thinks you arent good enough and says lets just be friends. (even when shes single) just basic termonology for guys to use.

[jamesdeanmartin]

I was best friends with a girl for about four years before we started dating. I had always had an interest in her, but she was never interested in me. We were best friends throughout high school. Finally on graduation night, we hooked up and ended up spending the next 3 1/2 years together in a very amazing and beautiful relationship. We are no longer together and it sucks, because I lost a best friend and a lover. It took me a long time to recover.

It can happen, I actually prefer for it to happen that way. I\'ve dated way too many girls who I have nothing in common with at all and it ends up going nowhere. I hate to waste the energy. Ultimately, friends with benefits is probably the very best thing to do IMHO, although I don\'t think I\'ve ever been able to pull that off.

JDM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh, yes, I quite agree, that\'s sheer perfection to me in relationship, best friends with benefits. I\'m sorry to hear about the loss of your friend/lover, however long ago it might have been. Graduation night you initiated the thing, huh? It\'s tremblingly romantic. It sounds like it must\'ve been very beautiful, your high school sweetheart. THIS is the girl who turned gay on you? F*ck me runnin\'. That must\'ve really hit you blindside.I have never had a relationship develop like that and can\'t imagine it. I had a friend who started off as a would-be lover, we had sex maybe twice, it just wasn\'t clicking, I called the whole thing off, he called and said \"But I LIKE you! Can\'t we at least be friends?\" and I thought that was so entirely reasonable I couldn\'t find grounds to argue so I went ahead at his suggestion, and we were best friends, I mean, tight as ticks, for 8 solid years. For me it\'s always sex first.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

James Dean, listen. It wasn\'t a 3 1/2 year relationship, it was a 7 1/2 year relationship during a pivotal time and it\'s marked you for a little while and it will. There are some things that will happen to you in your life that will change who you are and they never end. This is as serious a loss as a death and it\'s no wonder you\'re ping-ponging around and attracting to you similar wounded souls. That\'s where you are right now and it\'s no wonder, I don\'t think it\'s a flaw in your character, I think it\'s a time in your life. It may be a good time now for rest and reflection and that can also take years. It\'s good to be able to be by yourself entirely and to learn that you are your own home to go to. You were not only hurt in the heart but I\'m sure your sense of trust in yourself and in reality were also challenged pretty severely, how could this happen? and you have to keep it to yourself. It\'s a lot.

So rest if you can and take a lover if there\'s someone who wants to love you, and drift a little while. You should think about your schoolwork anyway.

Love,

FTR

[SwingerMD]

James,

I know what you mean. Of all the best relationships that I have had they started out as friends/aquaintences for years before we hooked up. When discussing this with my friends they agreed that a relationship that starts out with friendship can be the most rewarding . . . if it works out. When deep relationships like this go wrong, it can be very devestating.

FTR is right. You need to recover and heal. It will take a lot of time and searching. Me, it was about three years this New Year\'s since me and this one gal broke things off. We new each other as kids in swimteam and piano lessons I believe since we were 10. Things started to slowly pick up in her last two years of college and things really picked up when she went off to med school. So around that December I got hit with what I call a triple whammi. First a family member in Japan passed away. Second my date to New Year\'s (I asked 13 people) ended up in the hospital. And third . . . we completely severed all ties and we haven\'t contacted each other since. (Sigh) Anyhow I really haven\'t been in a serious relation since. Did go out on a two dates 3 months later, but it was way too soon. Took a year off and had my first date this past May. In the meantime I have been concentrating on my new love, Swing Dancing. Through my new hobby I have meet some wonderful people, some of who I am interested in. But I am willing to sit back and see how things unfold. Best of luck to you James and if you find a hobby that you love, hold onto it.

[MadMaxx]

Swinger,

I liked your story. It kind of reminds me of myself. You might remember a previous post when I mentioned that I am going to dance lessons. About a year and a half ago I got devastated by I woman that I thought I would marry. I almost feel like I wasted a year and a half of my life since then.
Anyway, I finally started getting it back together lately, but the fact that I wasn\'t able to find any decent ways to meet decent women wasn\'t helping things get back on track. So, I decided to take up dancing, both because I needed a new hobby, and because I thought it could improve other aspects of my life such as confidence, and I thought I might meet some interesting people, especially women.
I do about 7 hours a week of dance time, so I\'m pretty serious about it. Starting to meet a few nice people, but not the love of my life yet.

[Irish]

I have gone from friend to lover - it was the most perfectly romantic and exciting affair I could dream of. But it didn\'t just happen. I was always deeply attracted to her, but she had a serious boyfriend. I suffered like a lovesick schoolboy for a while as her friend - then decided \'screw it\' I\'m going to do something about it. I maintained our friendship and used it as an opportunity to know her better and play to her situation.

I began to subtly change my behavior to make her see me in a new light. I would withhold and restore elements of our friendship/interaction, make her aware of other women who were interested in me, etc. All the standard tricks. Since we were friends I had an excuse to interact with her all the time, so I could actually plan out what I would say to get her thinking.

Her boyfriend was actually a help, cause I knew her well by then and could begin to subtly supply whatever her boyfriend lacked. She finally made the move and broke with her boyfriend, after she convinced herself I was there to break her fall. I had been there all the time - I just had to change HER mindset before she could see me as more than just a friend.

I never whined, never criticized her boyfriend (I let her do that - and listened!), never expressed my deeper feelings openly (until she finally began to have them too). In fact on the surface nothing much changed. Everything was subtle - but effective - changes in my behavior, tailored to change her thinking about me.

Point is I really really had to quietly work to make this happen. It was difficult and frustrating to maneuver like this until she began to see me differently - but that\'s what it took. She had to see me in a different light than \'friend\' before she could fall for me. She was worth the effort, and we\'ll always be close, even though we aren\'t together. She just thinks the whole thing \'happened\', which is perfect and the way I want to leave it.

If you\'re not getting anywhere, locked in a friendship that doesn\'t become more, it\'s up to you to shake up the equilibrium and start a change. Friendships really are valuable and many people seriously won\'t risk friendship for the sake of a dalliance. Subtly make the friend fall for you emotionally - then you can go from friend to lover.

[jamesdeanmartin]

FTR says: \"Graduation night you initiated the thing, huh? It\'s tremblingly romantic. It sounds like it must\'ve been very beautiful, your high school sweetheart.\"

JDM: \"Eh not really. I asked her to Prom the month before, and she actually shot me down. She said she didn\'t have enough money for a dress. I was pissed off at her for a month or so, we actually hated each other for a while but we sat next to each other in every class and I think the hate actually helped things along. Somehow on Memorial Day we ended up hanging out one-on-one and the just went at it with this animalistic passion (as much as two 18-year old kids can have).

I guess this all brings up a point. Can anger/hate actually help a relationship along at points? You always see the two people who fight all the time then fall in love (Moonlighting syndrome :-) ) Anger is so damn close to love and passion physiologically that maybe it pushes things along sometimes. To be really pissed, I mean really angry at someone, is to show that you really care about them, and that they did something to effect you deeply.


FTR says: \"THIS is the girl who turned gay on you? F*ck me runnin\'. \"

Actually no. Although I do have a similar tale of woe. 2 1/2 years ago we decided to go on a little hiatus, we were having problems. We get back together after a couple months, and I think everything is going fine. After a few more months of the relationship she announces to me that she has been sleeping with my best friend (since 4th grade, something like 12 years of friendship). I didn\'t handle this well. Got pissed, probably pushed them closer together and they have been together for the past two years. They were my two closest friends and I did everything with them, the guy was my college roomate and we were living together for three years at the time, and they kept it all from me. This was all very devastating, I literally lost everything, I didn\'t hang out with anyone else, I cut everyone off being the foolish kid that I was and only hung out with my girlfriend and best friend.

So I started from scratch. And one of my closest friends (I don\'t know if I can say best friend, we\'re not as close I used to be with the other two) for the past two/three years is the girl who just told me she was dating a girl behind my back for two months. She\'s not necessarily gay, she just told me she was tired of dealing with guys bullshit (and by guys, she means me).

So yeah. I have a lot of garbage to yap about. I do enjoy sharing my experiences with everyone. It\'s very theraputic to talk about things. My problems with women tend to be that I am very shy and never make the first move. Which is why I ended up dating some very aggressive women in the past year, all of whom end up making me miserable because we fight all the time. I should have made a move on the girl who turned gay on me a long time ago, she was obviously interested, but I always am afraid of losing the friendship. There\'s a point in and of itself about the whole friends to lovers thing, you really have to be sure or you could ruin things. My problem was I cared about her too much as a person and as a friend, I really needed her more as a friend then a [censored] buddy, so when she showed up at my apartment at 2:30 AM with two icecream sundaes a month or so ago, we just sat and ate the ice cream and she left. That probably was a sign or something.

Eh, I\'m a work in progress :-)

JDM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I am not a proponent of the \"Moonlighting\" style of relationship. As much as I love a spirited discussion, I really don\'t like to bicker and it doesn\'t take too many times of feeling like I really can\'t stand someone before I decide that I really can\'t stand someone. I know people who fight and then have great make up sex, but I personally can\'t. If there\'s a fight with hard feelings on both sides and issues, it completely ruins the sex for me until the thing is resolved. For me, I want my association with a man to be only comfort and pleasure and I work really hard to make sure that he only ever associates me with comfort and pleasure - but of course, that\'s easier to do when you keep your distance, because at some level you\'re on perpetual courting behavior. I like to keep the \"special\" in it.

Jamesdean, consider spending some time keeping your distance. Might be good for you. Seems like the people around you are confused about a lot of things - gender identity, loyalty, honesty... and not at all loathe to work it out on you...in that crowd I think I\'d just prefer to sit back and watch.

[SwingerMD]

MaddMaxx,

Wow 7 hours per week! BTW what dances are you learning?