The Question: Younger vs. Older

[jamesdeanmartin]

I\'m sort of at a point in my life where I probably need a change. I came off a 3 1/2 year positive relationship and seem to have fallen into a series of flings and just piss poor relationships for the past two years. I\'m a fairly mature individual, graduated with BAs in Politics, English and Philosophy with the massive amounts of honors in May and have been accepted into 12 of the top law schools in the country (I\'m not going however, I\'m taking a semester off and then starting on my Phd.)

Yet for some reason I am still playing with these \"amateur\" women. What I\'ve begun to notice lately is that I am attracting and am attracted to, older women. Particularly women in their 30s and 40s. They all flirt with me when I hang out in the coffee shop I live above, even when the young 20-something girls behind the bar won\'t give me a chance. Part of it has to be pheros, but there is more to it as well.

I\'m an attractive guy, at least in the past year I think I\'ve grown to look attractive, I never really thought I was good looking previously but I\'ve grown up, added muscle, facial hair, let the hair grow longer and basically improved myself overall. However I\'m no pure knock down stud (6\'5\" 275, ding, ding, ding). I can have an intelligent conversation with you, and know how to stimulate you in that area. But I\'m not some skinny brad pitt or brandon boyd wannabe.

I have a book deal with a major publishing company as I am turning my honors senior thesis into a book on the right to privacy in the age of global terrorism and basically come across as every mother\'s dream for their daughter. But the daughters don\'t like me, or jerk me around incessantly. I just heard it today, \"Why don\'t you ask my daughter out, you two would be perfect together\" and if I would have told the mom the truth about how her daughter prefers the taste of pounnanni now, the mother\'s jaw would have dropped. These young girls don\'t know what they are doing, are average in bed at best, and have no clue what they are going to do in life. And going to a local community college or becoming a park ranger aren\'t exactly high level career girls. I want a lawyer, a doctor, someone who is aiming high, like I do. I don\'t want anymore artschool drop outs. These girls don\'t know what they want, they say just want to have fun, but they have no conception of how this fun fits into the whole scheme of things. Drink some more beer girls, bang some more frat boys, hell sleep with women, have your fun, I\'ll see you in like 10 years when you can appreciate a guy like me.

I\'m tired of these twenty-something flousies. I\'m tired of losing girls to drugs, or to frat boys, or to lesbianism. I\'m tired of massaging the egos of these girls and delicately nurturing their fragile psyches.

I think I want a Sugar Mommy or something akin to that, an older mature professional women who I could be with and work through grad school with.

I am I out of my mind giving up the dirty, drunk, drug-addicted girls that I swoon over now for women with real jobs and real lives?

Hmm, perhaps I\'m finally waking up.

JDM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well I hope FTR doesn\'t read this...she will have the right answer.

[EXIT63]

WELCOME HOME

[Whitehall]

Reminds me why I\'m glad I\'m no longer shopping 20-somethings. Give me a well preserved 40 y/o any day - but then I\'m a bit beyond that myself.

My recommendation is not make any commitments until after grad school. Having followed your sad saga over the months, you do need to develop the self-control to walk away from problem women (of any age.)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ohhh, you knew I couldn\'t resist.

Here are the pro\'s and con\'s as I see them of dating a woman who is older (broad generalization):

1. We\'re much better in bed.
2. We\'re not clingy.
3. You can be yourself more easily because very little you do will come as a shock to us.
4. We\'ve got our own and don\'t need you to buy us things.
5. Basically, we don\'t care what you do.
6. Generally, we want a few hours company and then you can go on about your business - I don\'t even let anyone spend the night.


Cons:

1. Maybe not as physically beautiful as a younger woman
2. If you get mutually attached, there could be marriage, but there won\'t be children

I\'m sure there\'s someone out here who has more list items.

With your schedule as full as it is and your mindset what it is, I would recommend an older woman - she\'ll give you less trouble and more pleasure.

It\'s best not to refer to her age, however. Women are vain about their ages. She\'s beautiful, period. Not an \"older woman,\" or a \"mature woman\" etc. Just a woman and you want her, don\'t verbally acknowledge the age difference and play it off if it comes up.

[jamesdeanmartin]

FTR says: <I>It\'s best not to refer to her age, however. Women are vain about their ages. She\'s beautiful, period. Not an \"older woman,\" or a \"mature woman\" etc. Just a woman and you want her, don\'t verbally acknowledge the age difference and play it off if it comes up. </I><P>

True. In general I find myself most attracted to women like Julianne Moore. She\'s beautiful no matter what her age. That\'s just an example, I\'m not planning on going after Julianne Moore or anything. I won\'t bring up age as an issue.

JDM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The only analogy I can think of to make you feel how big an issue a woman\'s age is to her with regard to men is maybe penis size. That\'s the only thing I\'ve heard men be anxious about universally even when it\'s just absurd, do you know what I mean? So I\'m supposing it\'s a pretty general men\'s anxiety thing. I have a couple of women friends older than I am (if you can imagine such a thing) who date men literally young enough to be their sons, and the worry is constant that they\'re not attractive enough because of their ages. I sometimes get younger guys trying to move on me with \"I really LIKE older women.\" SHUT DOWN CLICK. How nice for you, dear, I hope you find yourself one remove myself from their area.

I know it\'s stupid but that\'s the inside scoop. And it\'s kinda like Does this dress make my ass look big? The answer is never yes. If it makes her ass look big indeed, tell her you don\'t think it\'s quite her color. Her ass is always perfect.

You dig? ;-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FTR, GO GIRL.!!!! .She is again with the earth woman\'s advise. I really like her. Neesa

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Neesa, I\'m giving away all the scoop... lol

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You are Giving what women need to say. I am not a writer. You are doing for me what I can not say. Thanks

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You\'re kind and generous to say that, thank you.

Hey - how \'bout Rene Russo in The Thomas Crown Affair? She\'s holdin\' up pretty nicely for an old broad, eh?

[EXIT63]

I know it\'s stupid but that\'s the inside scoop. And it\'s kinda like Does this dress make my ass look big? The answer is never yes. If it makes her ass look big indeed, tell her you don\'t think it\'s quite her color. Her ass is always perfect.

You dig? ;-)

You ladies are too hung up on the size of your asses.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I am still laughing, good one EXIT63...good one
Denise

[xvs]

I don\'t know about the \"there won\'t be children\" point.

In fact, that\'s one of my major issues with late 30s gals: if they DO want children or MIGHT want children, every moment they spend with me is time they could be out looking for someone who (unlike me) will want to marry them and have children with them.

I feel the clock ticking with these women and feel as if I\'m cheating them out of their possible future.

That\'s why I prefer younger women who still have some time to spare before their alarm goes off.

Of course if I did meet a late 30\'s gal who I was totally blown away by, I might go out with her, but then it would be because marriage would be a possibility. That possibility with anyone I go out with is, unfortunately, really rare, however.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I guess it depends on what you\'re calling an older woman. But anywhere after about 35 and her eggs are getting old. It\'s true you can do in vitro etc etc but it\'s cost prohibitive to say the least and stressful in the extreme. I just meant to say, if you want children, find a woman of childbearing age, which is NOT a woman 35 or older. Your chances of problems increase with every year she grows older. Which is exactly why older or younger than prime child bearing age is less of a problem. When I was in my thirties I evaluated every guy I considered spending any real time with in terms of what kind of father he might make. Now I\'m 45 and I really don\'t care anymore about several issues: how much money does he make, what kind of father would he be, does he have a house, is his credit good, would my parents like him/would he fit in with my extended family etc etc etc. All I have to care about now is does he make me happy in bed and does he treat me well.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have eggs for sale..teeehee,sorry.I never wanted kids.I just wanted to be happy. I now have found happy after a few hundred men, I found a 45 yr old who is wonderful. He has no kids either. Older depends on the mind. I am still some where between life goes on and LIFE. I am so happy. My line in life came from David Allen Coe,\"But it was all that I could do to keep from cryin\'....and I don\'t.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FTR wrote: Now I\'m 45 and I really don\'t care anymore about several issues: how much money does he make, what kind of father would he be, does he have a house, is his credit good, would my parents like him/would he fit in with my extended family etc etc etc. All I have to care about now is does he make me happy in bed and does he treat me well.

You could not have said this any better FTR. Now, if I could get more women (32-45) to sign up for your theory as stated, I would be a very happy man with a smile all the time!

[EXIT63]

We all would be.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This is such a fun place...I am so happy I found this site.
Keep up the pheromones and we could put everyone out of business, but only for the good....:)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The fertility thing is the issue. That window is real, a woman only has a few years. I was ambivalent about children, my heart\'s true feeling is that there are so many childen out there already without parents, how could I possibly bring one more into the world - let\'s take care of the ones already in need - but my mother in law sure felt differently and I got geared up to have a baby and found out at 38 it was not going to be possible. At $10,000.00 PER TRY, my eggs were too old at 38. I had no idea. I thought I my option was open into my 40\'s. So I think if you find a woman of whatever age who for whatever reason does not want children or marriage, the pressure is off on several dimensions and you can relate as who you really are more on a soul level or on a physical level since the externals aren\'t so important. It\'s just more likely you\'ll find that woman in the 38-50 age group. If you\'re truly tired of the bullshit, that\'s the age to target. It also happens that that\'s a woman\'s sexual peak. She doesn\'t need you for reproduction, that issue\'s over with. If she has sex with you it\'s because she really wants to enjoy herself with you in bed. Her motives become more pure. Whereas a younger girl is in the Girls Just Wanna Have Fun time of her life and that\'s nice, too, but she\'s nowhere near as primal as a woman in her 40\'s.Read Whitehall on this subject.

[jamesdeanmartin]

Whitehall - Trust me, I will be a man and make you proud some day :-)

JDM

[Irish]

jamesdeano-

You\'re obviously intelligent, and if you want intelligence in a partner you\'re gonna have to look lots harder than you might think. Just look at the IQ bell curve - truly intelligent people are rare and the numbers fall off rapidly the further out you go on the curve.

If maturity is what you\'re after, older women are a good place to look - experience tends to maturity. But there are exceptions - mature young women and silly older women with arrested development.

But these are obvious surface issues. You might enjoy Hendrix\'s Imago theory - a somewhat Freudian explanation of why we subconsciously fall for those who we are guaranteed to have frustration and conflict with. He tends to beat a dead horse a bit, but I have to admit that his theory explains a lot about my failed relationships - it\'s almost scary.

Good luck and good hunting.

[jamesdeanmartin]

I\'m glad you brought that up Irish. I\'ll look up some info on Hendrix\'s Imago theory, I think it may apply.

For Sopranos fans out there, I feel like I am somewhat of a Dr. Melfi. Dr. Melfi is the restrained therapist who is enamored with the glamorous and disgusting life of Tony Soprano. She is still working on coming to grips with her own vicarious life she lives through Tony. Everything in her tells her she shouldn\'t be treating a mob boss who is involved in serious illegal activity, but she couldn\'t stop. She sits there stoically trying to portray the aura of a professional therapist, but at times she regresses to a simpler girlish state of just being in awe of this supremely perverse lifestyle.

I feel the same way about some of the women in my life now.
I have always been the straight-laced intelligent guy who doesn\'t go crazy, I didn\'t drink, do drugs, smoke, sleep around do anything in high school, and in college I was still somewhat of a choir boy while dating a girl for a very long period of time. But now, I run into this girl who I know is not even near my level, there\'s little or no potential long term, she\'s 4 years younger than me, she does every drug imaginable and a lot, she sleeps around with men and women, and she continues to do dirt to me off and on for a long time now. She\'s in an arrested state of adolescent dalliances while I have been forced to \"grow up\" perhaps before my time (I overcame a life-threatening illness when I was 21 and have since been fairly \"grown-up\") Every bone in my body says I should stay away from her, but I keep going back. I want to hear the stories, and she tells me everything in graphic detail. I become this sort of voyeur into a life that I myself did not lead because I was too busy busting my ass in college. I\'m working on coming to grips with this. What scares me is that when she gives me bad news, such as she was secretly sleeping with one of her lesbian friends for two months and that\'s why she stopped hanging out with me everyday, part of me is angry and horribly pissed off, and the other part of me is somewhat turned on by the whole situation. My heart was beating like crazy when she told me about it. And first damn reaction was, \"So what\'s it like being with a girl?\" and \"Hey if you ever need a third, you have my number\" I regressed into that annoying jock 14-year old who tries to get two girls to kiss on his sofa while listening to Limp Bizkit and watching skate boarding videos.

JDM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Why wouldn\'t it? That\'s everybody\'s wet dream. There\'s no shame in your reaction. It\'s just ... if you\'re gonna get into all that, you really have to have a player attitude, and you don\'t have a player attitude. This girl\'s very manipulative, she\'s playin\' a tune on you. Which means you could get scuffed up pretty bad. But maybe it\'s your time to get scuffed up, y\'know? Maybe youre being given opportunities to expand your experience and to develop a little tougher shell.

I\'ll sure kick ideas back and forth with you about it all you want, but I think the men on the site are better equipped to really be of help.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JD, have you ever seen this classic Ben Franklin piece? I offer it for your amusement and edification:

June 25, 1745
MY DEAR FRIEND:-
I know of no Medicine fit to diminish the violent natural inclination you mention; and if I did, I think I should not communicate it to you. Marriage is the proper Remedy. It is the most natural State of Man, and therefore the State in which you will find solid Happiness. Your Reason against entering into it at present appears to be not well founded. The Circumstantial Advantages you have in View by Postponing it, are not only uncertain, but they are small in comparison with the Thing itself, the being married and settled. It is the Man and Woman united that makes the complete Being. Separate she wants his force of Body and Strength of Reason; he her Softness, Sensibility and acute Discernment. Together they are most likely to succeed in the World. A single Man has not nearly the Value he would have in that State of Union. He is an incomplete Animal. He resembles the odd Half of a Pair of Scissors.

If you get a prudent, healthy wife, your Industry in your Profession, with her good Economy, will be a Fortune sufficient.

But if you will not take this Counsel, and persist in thinking that Commerce with the Sex is inevitable, then I repeat my former Advice that in your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones. This you call a Paradox, and demand my reasons. They are these:

1. Because they have more Knowledge of the world, and their Minds are better stored with Observations; their conversation is more improving, and more lastingly agreeable.

2. Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Man, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a thousand Services, small and great, and are the most tender and useful of Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an Old Woman who is not a good Woman.

3. Because there is no hazard of children, which irregularly produced may be attended with much inconvenience.

4. Because through more Experience they are more prudent and discreet in conducting an Intrigue to prevent Suspicion. The Commerce with them is therefore safer with regard to your reputation; and regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be inclined to excuse an old Woman, who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his manners by her good Councils, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.

5. Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part. The Face first grows lank and Wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower parts continuing to the last as plump as ever; so that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old one from a young one. And as in the Dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of Corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal and frequently superior; every Knack being by Practice capable by improvement.

6. Because the sin is less. The Debauching of a Virgin may be her Ruin, and make her Life unhappy.

7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend making an old Woman happy.

8. 8th & lastly. They are so grateful!!!

Thus much for my Paradox. But still I advise you to marry immediately; being sincerely


Your Affectionate Friend,
Benj. Franklin

[sophie]

\"Standing and cheering\" you go, Ben and FTR!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Since you liked that so well, here\'s another for you...

Older Women Andy Rooney says, \"As I grow in age, I value older women most of all. Here are just a few reasons why.\"

An older woman will never wake you in the middle of the night to ask, \"What are you thinking?\" She doesn\'t care what you think.

An older woman knows herself well enough to be assured in who she is, what she is, what she wants and from whom. Few women past the age of 50 give a damn what you might think about her.

An older single woman usually has had her fill of \"meaningful relationships\" and commitment.\" The last thing she needs in her life is another dopey, clingy, whiny, dependent lover!

Older women are dignified. They seldom have a screaming match with you at the opera or in an expensive restaurant. Of course, if you deserve it, they won\'t hesitate to shoot you if they think they can get away with it.

Most older women cook well. They care about cleanliness and are generous with praise, often undeserved.

An older woman has the self-assurance to introduce you to her women friends.

A younger woman with a man will often ignore even her best friend because she doesn\'t trust the guy with other women. Older women couldn\'t care less.

Women get psychic as they age. You never have to confess your sins to an older woman. They always know.

An older woman looks good wearing bright red lipstick. This is not true of younger women or drag queens.

Once you get past a wrinkle or two, an older woman is far sexier than her younger counterpart. Her libido\'s stronger, her fear of pregnancy gone.

Older women are forthright and honest. They\'ll tell you right off you are a jerk if you are acting like one.

Yes, we praise older women for a multitude of reasons. Unfortunately, it\'s not reciprocal. For every stunning, smart, well-coifed babe of 50 there is a bald, paunchy relic in yellow pants making a fool of himself with some 22 year old waitress.

[sophie]

Andy says it great too. where do you get this stuff? It should be posted on billboards!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The Ben Franklin just because it\'s American Lit and I used to teach high school English so have read a fair amount of maybe obscure stuff. The Andy Rooney was sent to me by a former sweetie as a compliment. Great stuff, huh? Boosts your confidence a little when the mirror shows yet another experience line...

[franki]

To be honest, I don´t believe that when I am 45, I would prefer a 40-year-old woman over a 25 or 30-year old woman.

Another thing with women is that (most of them) like men who are older than them. I think they want a man (with experience) and not a son. So how are you ever going to get a woman that is significantly \"older\" than you, provided you would want one.

Now I am 20, although I certainly look older. When a 27 or 29-year old woman asks me how old I am and I say I am 20 they are suddenly not seeing me anymore as a potential boyfriend. So I think it´s a bit unfair to give the impression only men are obsessed by numbers and ages.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

No, of course, you\'re quite right and I must admit I fall into the \"guilty\" category on this one. I can\'t do too much younger, it just doesn\'t feel right. However. At my age, older men than I are having some equipment failure while I\'m ready to go at full tilt (!), so a guy a few years younger is not a bad thing.

JD says he has older women coming on to him, so he has a ready supply if he should decide to go for it. Compared to what he\'s currently got happening, it would seem to me the older women might be a nice change for him.

[Gerund]

I got a kick out of that letter the first time I saw it, way back when I was first in college...

On the flip side of the issue, I often face an interesting dilemma -- although I am 44 years old, I easily pass for 34. And if I\'m tanned & rested, even younger, maybe late 20s. The problem is that I just don\'t know how to act when a 22- year-old girl is expressing interest -- and I\'m absolutely positive she has no idea how old I am.

Part of me thinks that she\'d run screaming into the night to learn I\'m 44 years old. I almost feel that if I didn\'t make it a point to reveal my age before going any further with a young girl, she\'d accuse me of \"dating under false pretenses\" or something.

I know this sounds kind of dippy, but it is a real concern for me. Luckily, very few 22-25 year-old women appeal to me -- but there\'s always a few that are attractive, mature, and intelligent -- who I wouldn\'t mind being with at all.

Any thoughts out there from the estrogen crowd in our little forum?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Always always tell the truth, and let the chips fall where they may. Ultimately, it\'s just easier.

[Funlover]

Good Advice, FTR. Honesty is the best policy. The more I read your posts and learn about your past years & experiences, the better I like you. And I haven\'t even seen you yet!!! You just seem really beautiful on the inside. The world needs more women like you. You are definately a \"teacher\"!! I will be forever grateful for what I have learned.

Funlover

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thank you ever so.

[sophie]

You know, this thread is making me think back to my 20\'s....especially what franki said. I remember thinking, I don\'t want to get old, thinking in my then-young mind how I diidn\'t want to sleep with \"geezers\" (although I did once have a 37year old bf once when I was 23, and 37 seemed really old to me then), figuring I\'d rather go without. well, it\'s funny how life sneaks up on you and you find yourself over that hill, and liking it just fine. I know many attractive men in the age range 45-60, as well as some younger men (20\'s) who seem more mature than their years. Never let it be said that we women don\'t like to look, especially when these 40\'s hormones kick in.

What my point is, is that *if* I were free and single, I wouldn\'t rule anyone out based on age. Basic compatibility would be a big factor, an intelligent mind is a real turnon for me, someone who thinks about things besides money and appearances (these just happen to be turnoffs for me, thinking of a couple of people I know who base their lives on income and appearances of wealth,and judge others accordingly). I must admit though, my \"dear\" SO (sometimes more dear than at other times LOL, he\'s not without faults) has these qualities I like, so I\'m not looking, but I do think about who\'s out there. A girl\'s gotta have some fantasies.

[Whitehall]

Ms. Sophie,

It would seem only fair that I offer myself as a subject of your fantasies.

You have been a star in mine...

[sophie]

whitehall, you\'re already one of my fantasies, I\'ll never forget that PCC thread awhile back....mmmm...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh, my, what a post. I think it\'d be most appropriate to break out of my silence/hiatus, to say that I give jamesdeanmartin a standing ovation.

I\'ll be 24 in a matter of days. I would have to agree with your observations of younger women, and, like yourself, I am discovering a leaning toward the older women... though, albeit, for slightly different reasons.

You\'re tired of losing out to drugs, idiots & lesbians, whereas I\'m simply tired of just losing out. Oh, the irony! I actually feel sorta vindicated for something I\'m not very proud of. You see, it\'s a futile effort for an almost 24 y/o virgin to have a women +/- 2 years my age, actually help out. If they\'re \"average at best\" then I couldn\'t prove to be much worse!!!!

On the other hand, I bet a thirty-something, after having gotten to know me, would be fully sympathetic to my plight, and take care of my \"problem\" once and for all.

What sucks, though, is, much unlike jamesdeanmartin, I\'m a diminutive 5\'8\" at 150, and I STILL look like I am 17. This is obviously problematic, because w/respect to me, being w/ an older women would unfortunately look like an Oedipal complex, and I\'m sure SHE would not like to be fielding questions like, \"Is that your son??\"

But damn, I work with a lot of mid 30-something women. Too bad they\'re all married. The ones that I can confide in, tell me they\'d have taken care of me, had they not been spoken for. I must say, they\'ve influenced me positively!

What I do for a living, isn\'t well respected (at first glance) by young 20-something women. They\'d care less about my accomplishments. Bring in the older women, then I can listen to all the compliments about how smart I am for my age, how wonderful I am to be around, and they offer me lunch!!

Been there, done that, regarding the mother suggesting the daughter setup. Yeah, right, I\'ll just waste my time and money by chauffering and feeding your daughter, so she can tell me, \"Thanks, but no thanks\" ... assuming it\'d even get that far.

So, yeah, I\'m getting older, and I\'m getting more and more attracted to older women. It just sucks that I\'d probably have to physically age another 10 years to catch up with the mental aspect, before I could get successful at any of this. In other words, I can\'t attract them outright, in public, like you can.

In the meantime, I gotta just take what I can get. However, this summer, I just gave up the phero boards, as well as any others close to these topics, out of the sheer frustration of reading others\' successes, when I had none, and could not contribute. But I\'ll be damned, in my travels I met someone on a plane, and I\'ll be seeing her in a couple of weeks! Needless to say, I want every tool I have, at my disposal, and I got plenty of phero\'s stockpiled. Oh, and I did have a date with someone else, after that, but that sucked ass... Anyway, looks like I\'ll be around more, to study!

[EXIT63]

...However. At my age, older men than I are having some equipment failure while I\'m ready to go at full tilt (!),

Buy a bottle of horny goat weed or those GNC \"lead in your pencil pills\" and keep it handy. Politely suggest to your lover that he take 4 of these at dinner, (he is buying you dinner right), cause he\'s gonna have the ride of his life and he\'s gonna need them ! ! !

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Exit, it\'s funny - he\'s only ever seen me with clothes on twice in the little over two years we\'ve known each other. Once on the day we met, and once when we were in the middle of a conversation but he had to leave, and I threw some jeans and a t shirt on and rode down the elevator with him, walked him to his car. That\'s it. We don\'t go out. We talk about it but once he\'s in the door and we\'re alone together, we stay that way, as much or more my choice than his, but I can\'t imagine having to sit across from him in a restaurant. I don\'t care about dinner. And I don\'t feel comfortable trying to alter him in any way whatsoever, feels disrespectful to me, even if I thought it would be \"for his own good.\" So any modifications to what we have will have to come from me. But I must say, PCC was a magic bullet... :-) we\'ll see what happens with PI/w. Hope Sophie\'s experiences happen for me, too.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

See, I like stories like that with a happy ending FTR!!! Everyones happy...

[EXIT63]

See Baby, They really do work.
I LUV LOVE SCENT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Good Luck with the PI/w, you Super Sexy Love Machine you.

[Gerund]

I\'d always tell the truth, FTR. If you lie about things, you have to keep track of what lies you\'ve told, and to whom. And that\'s way too much mental overhead for me to maintain, a la \"oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.\"

I\'m thinking you must have meant \'lies of omission.\" That applies... but what is a good time to bring up, \"oh, by the way, you\'re cognizant that I\'m 44, aren\'t you?\"

If I were to make a point of mentioning my age too early, I\'m afraid of sometimes being presumptious, if I had misread the girl\'s degree of interest. And if I wait longer, trying to gauge with more certainty what her feeling/intentions are, then it seems more awkward to bring up the subject of my age. Aw, screw it, I don\'t think I can explain it sufficiently... lol

Actually, what I often do is this: I don\'t follow up on interest expressed by girls in their early 20s, because it\'s easier to let them wonder (why I didn\'t follow up) than it is to risk the hit to my ego if they WOULD run screaming into the night to find out that I\'m 44-- So there\'s my confession... And so I don\'t try to follow up or follow through with pursuing things further...

Any woman who goes out with me is certainly entitled to know my age, beyond the shadow of a doubt. I just don\'t want to sustain the rejection that would sometimes follow revealing my age to 20-something girls that I really do like and maybe feel a chemistry with...

It doesn\'t escape me that I must have left a few younger women confused or disappointed because I didn\'t follow up on their interest in me -- especially when I clearly enjoyed talking with them. And it really isn\'t fair to them to just be left hanging simply because of my apparently fragile ego...

So where\'s a good shot of testosterone when a guy needs it?! lol Look for me on Oprah next week, as we get squared away to straighten out my psyche...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Aw, c\'mon now Gerund. There\'s always a way to work it into the conversation. And they don\'t run screaming, although some of them might react in disbelief...there was a guy half my age where I used to work five years ago, not a flaw on him, smart as a whip and funny oh my god...he complimented my laugh and I said Well, I\'ve had 40 years to perfect it, and he stood there aghast and kept saying \"You\'re 40 years old? You\'re FORTY YEARS OLD? MAN!\" whereupon I felt like Bart Simpson, Don\'t have a cow, man. We remained the best of friends. Had to, now that everyone in the file room and docketing knew my age. :-) Tease her, say, what\'s a cute young thing like you doing goin\' after a man old enough to be your daddy? I\'d like to take you out sometime but you\'re too young (she\'ll think: I\'ll show you who\'s young! I\'m not too young!)...say It\'s a shame you\'re such a little girl, we could have some big fun together (what do you mean?! little girl? I\'m 20 years old!) say oh, honey, I\'m 44, I\'m way too old for you (oh, but i like older men)

You can work it in. Ask her what music she likes and when she starts naming bands, start talking about Zeppelin and Floyd and say well, what do you expect from a 44 year old? You\'ll have to teach me about these new bands, I\'m not up to speed. Where\'s a good place to go hear music?

C\'mon Gerund. :-)

I dunno, I guess it\'s the difference between whether you want the Bandaid pulled off in one quick jerk or whether you want it eased off slow and agonizing, but if it\'s gonna hurt, it\'s gonna hurt, and I guess I\'m for the get it over with up front method. If she\'s going to reject you for age, it\'ll happen one way or another, and if she doesn\'t, and is under the impression you\'re significantly younger and goes out with you under false pretences, then you\'re going to look like a seducer when the truth comes out, and it will.

Hey, so when\'s your birthday? December? What year? oh my god, I can\'t believe that, really? I was a senior in high school the year you were born.

Refer to things that happened \"back in my day\" and wait for her to ask you what you\'re talking about, then say well, I was born in such and such year, you know...

If it\'s at work, find a way to refer to the fact you\'ve been at this business x number of years and did x and y before that, and watch her do the math in her head and then tell her Oh, I\'m 44, you didn\'t know that? Oh, yeah, um hm. and just let her deal with it.

etc etc

[xvs]

I date women that are in their 20s, I\'m in my 40s and I never tell them unless asked, and then try to sleep with them before I tell them.

After they\'ve already slept with me, they seem to be more willing to accept the age difference... it\'s a psychological fact that if you\'ve done something you tend to think of why it was a good idea!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think that\'s common.

But hey - your world, I just live in it...

[Gerund]

Yep, you\'re right, FTR. Good stuff.

And I really had to chuckle at your proposed remark about me telling a girl that I was a senior in high scool the year she was born, because that remark or something very similar to it has occurred to me probably 100 times~ lol

Well, we can\'t say life doesn\'t get interestinger and interestinger as we get older... /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif