Unapproachable

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi,

I am a total newbie to the world of pheros. I have done a fair amount of reading on this site, but I would still like to get some feedback to a couple of specific questions.

1. I prefer women between the ages of 23 and 25. This works out well, because that is the group that I\'m the most successful with. I\'m not exactly sure why this is true (I\'m 40), but I don\'t really care. I have been told countless times by women I\'ve dated that I am totally unapproachable. They tell me how amazed they are that we got together. I take the opportunity to ask them why, how, etc., but haven\'t been able to get anything very useful. I get the feeling that this has to do with the variety of things that make me who I am. I can\'t help but wonder about the women that got away. Anyway, I started looking into pheros as a way to help breakdown that barrier. BTW I\'m not talking about the age barrier. I know how to deal with that. Does anyone else have this problem? If so, what products/mixes would the experts recommend?

2. I am totally game to doing some experimentation with various products. I am also comfortable with the idea of mixing things together. Assuming price was no object, what would be the killer product list?

Thanks in advance,
sigipa

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK Sigipa, I think the basic issue here is your word \"unapproachable\". The make up on that term could mean 1000 different things (none which we need to go into) but when women sense this emotion, it\'s like an animal smelling fear in it\'s prey. This wall has to be broken down first before the pheros really can take effect. They seem to work in environments where women feel a certain comfort zone with a man - and I might say they work well as I\'ve proven to myself many times recently with various solutions. My biggest thing that I found is making the initial introduction fun, smiley, have good clothes and non-threatening body language. I\'ve seen countless other articles on these issues posted here and other websites regarding men & women with and w/o pheros. It\'s good reading and to the point. But to answer your question about which phero to start with: SOE or maybe RM w/NPA... Those seems to soften all initial meetings with prospective ladies. Good luck dude...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Your right JustHuge. I suppose I should have been a bit more descriptive.

I think some people have a natural presence. This can be a good or bad thing depending on the context. I have always known that this was true in my case. I have tried various approaches, clothes, etc. to tone this down. I have even had a number of women try to help me with this. The main reaction that women have (of all ages) is that they will get shot down or that I can see their weeknesses. The women that I do ultimately go out with are very confident and secure. While being confident and secure with ones self are positive qualities, they can become rather boring. I\'d like to be able to interact with women of different personality types. I realize that pheros are not going to be the magic elixer, but there is little to lose in trying.

Thanks for your help.
sigipa

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I too have a penchant for that age range. I am 34. How do you break the age barrier? I\'ve had girls in that age range when I was younger (up to 2 years ago) but I seem to be \"too old\" now. Would like to know about your technique and attitude (plus, how do you meet them?)
Thanks
Golem

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Just wanting to know if I\'m understanding you: you\'re 40, with a big presence, you like women 23-25, you\'re tired of very self-confident women of that age and want something different.You are looking for a pheromone that will -- soften your image? so as to be more appealing to a more -- ? -- less self-confident? 23-25 year old ... are you looking for a young sub? or what exactly?While awaiting your response, the only thing that occurs to me is maybe your eye contact is too intense, could that be?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Golem, it\'s not hard to meet women of that age range. The department stores, malls, shopping plazas, grocery stores, etc. are full of them. The problem in meeting them (if that\'s what you want) is your initial openess, look, friendliness, sense of humor, and style that all equals \"fun guy\" not stuffy. All age ranges of women like this type of man. If you add confidence, charm, maturity and some common sense it only strengthens your overall look in her eyes. Helps if you smell good also.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

thanks. there\'s a big cultural difference here (I live in Italy). The best you can do in shopping places, malls etc is to chat with someone in line or with a counter girl. Anything else would be seen as too aggressive/scary, esp. if you are 10-12 years older than your \"target\". Here you just DON\'T stop people to talk to them. Anyway, I\'ll treasure your suggestion, thanks.(at the moment I am \"working on\" a cute 32-old who\'s reacting well, but she\'s married and I am a \"good guy\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Golem,

Well... I haven\'t really thought about it that much, but I\'ll give it a shot.

I should probably explain why I am attracted to these women. This should help you understand where I\'m coming from.

I found this age range to be best for just having fun and enjoying being together. They aren\'t responding to an alarm from their biological clock, which is urging them to get married, have children etc.. They are typically not very experienced sexually, but have heard that sex is supposed to be more than they have experienced to date. They also don\'t have a ton of emotional baggage from previous failed relationships and have not declared all men the enemy. The game playing and manipulation is held to a minimum so you can relax a bit and just enjoy spending time with them. However, make no mistake that it will not last forever. They will ultimately find a guy their age. You are just an experience along the way.

I meet them in places where they are not typically with their friends (work, restaurants. gyms, etc.). One of the most important things to remember is NEVER approach them in front of their friends. They can\'t possibly do anything even if they are interested. Their friends will rip them to shreds. You have to be very relaxed and NEVER check out their body. You will be classified as a dirty old man immediately. Your main task is to help them realize that they could be with you discretely. It s does take some time, but if you take it slowly, things can work out.

DOs
1. Go very slowly
2. Help her visualize herself with you.
3. Never mention sex. If she does, just respond enough to let her know that the topic is okay.
4. Let her know that you think she\'s attractive, but that you don\'t want her that badly.
5. Let her know that your sensitive to the social taboo with her friends.

DON\'Ts
1. Never check out her body when trying to meet her.
2. Never use any language that highlights the age difference
3. Never point out how foolish and naive she is; even when you know she\'s dead wrong.
4. Never try to dress like that age group.
5. Never try to talk like they do.
6. Don\'t die your hair (for god\'s sake).
7. Don\'t try to be too smooth. Your more powerful, she knows it, and she\'ll run.
8. If you see her with her friends or anyone else, just acknowledge you saw her and smile. Let her approach.
9. Don\'t lie.
10. Don\'t try to interact with her on her level. Make her try to meet yours, but don\'t set the bar too high.


The main point here is that you are not them, you can\'t be them, and it is the fact that your different that will attract her anyway. Having said that, you can\'t be the typical 34 yr old either. Find some activity that you honestly enjoy that her age group also enjoys. There must be some common ground or you will never get together.


I hope this helps. I\'ve never tried to distill into words before. It\'s just more of a gut feel kind of thing. If you have specific questions I\'ll try to help. Oh yeah, be prepared for you own age group (men and women) to vigorously disapprove.

Later,
sigipa

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks a lot. It all makes sense. I have suffered \"peer pressure\" to use an euphemism , two years ago. I was interested in a girl of 19-20, way more mature and intelligent than the average -- and I\'ve blown it completely due to mutual \"friends\" who started to protect her from the big bad wolf. Sheeesh!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

There\'s always the guy who really showed you what the big deal was about, and he\'s usually somewhat older. It\'s a little insane how upset people get over age differences, isn\'t it? Someone has to be the teacher.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

2 days ago at a camping I and a friend (also 34) tried to chat/pick up two girls in the 21-23 range. Mine responded well (she kept brushing her thigh against mine for the whole 3 hours conversation, kept smiling, laughing at my jokes etc). The problem was my friend-- he initiated conversation, but he wasn\'t doing it seripously and had no intention to have more than a chat. I think \"his\" girl sensed this and disapproved her friend\'s openness with me. When we left the bar she signalled to her friend \"don\'t give them our phone number\", they promised to meet us the following day but never showed up.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

well I\'m in no position to teach. at 34 I have only 4 GFs under my belt (so to say) ;-)
Golem

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You\'re not all that much older than your target age, though. Stig\'s going for women young enough to be his daughter. But he\'s enjoying them and throwing them back into the pool. Good sportsmanship.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I used to hang out in a comic-store (the 19-old was a comic geek like me) but only a few girls are into comics :-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, now you\'re starting to scare me lol.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi FTR,

I must admit I was hoping for / interested in your response.

I just want more variety. A little nervousness/shyness/apprehension can be very attractive in limited quantity. I always seem to end up with the alpha female kind of women though. It would be a nice change to be with someone a little less confident/aggressive. I think being with the AF variety also does nothing to help my problem, because you have to project the same(even if it is subconsciously). It would be cool to be with someone a little more soft and sensitive. The bottom line is, that I think I could get this type of women of I could soften the edges a little.

Your not the first to mention the eye contact thing. I\'ve tried to be very sensitive/conscious of this, but to no avail.


BTW: I don\'t view the \"BIG PRESENCE\" thing as a necessarily positive thing. I just couldn\'t think of any other way to say it. The main issue is that I tend to attract aggressive women.

Thanx,
sigipa

[**DONOTDELETE**]

LOL another cultural difference. Here in Italy (most Europe) comics are not kids\' stuff -- they are considered a serious art form. So I\'m not that scary :-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey - I just now saw your response to me. I don\'t know about the pheromone thing, I\'m new to it completely, only had one experience. Maybe I can help in other ways. Do you know anything about your astrological chart? Do you have Scorpio prominent in your chart somewhere? If you don\'t know your chart, can you tell me your complete birthdate, mo/day/year, time of birth, and city and state or city and country. There might be clues there.This is a long shot and it would take me time. Hope you find the guys helpful re pheromones -I think you will.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi. Sounds fun! 11/09/61 Pratt, KS. Sorry I don\'t know the time.

Thanx.

[Watcher]

Interesting.

http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/ (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/\") - please sign the petition need 10000 signatures. Please help

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dude, you have MAJOR Scorpio-itis. Your Sun, Mars and Neptune are in Scorpio in the 8th house, which rules Scorpio. Sag moon which would make you emotionally honest and forthright, friendly, but I would be willing to bet you also have Scorpio rising -- even without that, all that Scorpio makes you extremely intense and extremely sexual, with penetrating eyes. There\'s not much you can do about that. Try to keep your facial expressions soft, maybe. Scorpios often have quiet voices and I find that very appealing (my Venus is in Scorpio conj Neptune).I sympathize. I\'m a double Sag but the Venus in Scorpio is enough in my chart to make for a high profile presence whether I want it or not. This is pretty much a live-with-it thing. What you have going for you is intrigue, but you\'re going to reek charisma/sex no matter how you tone it down.

[Watcher]

Im a Leo what about me arent we headstrong and dominant. Alpha male type lol.

http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/ (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/\") - please sign the petition need 10000 signatures. Please help

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Leo the Lion, constellation contains the bright star, Regulus (sp?) The King, you don\'t have friends, you have subjects, and you expect loyalty and need lots of attention and praise. In return you are warm, Leo has such a big warm heart, and protective. Leo rules actors and the stage. Leos are dramatic and can be exhibitionistic.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Cool, cool cool... It was sweet of you to do that for me. Thanx

BTW: I\'ve read several of your other posts and I\'m thinking your kinda neat.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thank you ever so. I\'m quite sure I\'d like you, too. It\'s in the stars. I\'m five years your senior, though - you wouldn\'t give me a second glance.

Salute, Scorpio All Hail the Eagle Serpent

[sophie]

watcher, why am I not surprised you\'re a Leo!!! XXOO /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

I am Virgo with Aquarius rising and moon in Sagittarius,which is all I remember offhand but I think it\'s a weird combination, n\'est ce pas?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Already guessed that. Still think your neat. Looking forward to reading more from you.

Thanks Again!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, you\'ve got a lot going on. You seem to integrate it well.

Lots of Sag, Scorp and Virgo on the forum.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks, I find you very interesting as well, glad you\'re here.

[druid]

damn you guys are really into that astrology stuff aren\'t you? well I don\'t believe in it, but lets test it. Tell me something about me: 01/25/80 Louisville, KY. Don\'t know the time.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

ARG! Stig\'s was easy, it took one glance at the picture. They\'re not all easy to read, much less enter the data. Give me time, I\'ll get to you, how\'s that? He wrote with a problem so I did a rush.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Did you \"get\" right offhand that he was Leo? I didn\'t recognize it until he said so, then it came to me how he\'s always in a rage about unfaithfulness, disloyalty.

Yes my king. If you must have a Queen, find a girl who is faithful and thinks you\'re wonderful and make a lovely family who will be your pride. Nothing else will do.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, DRUID, your turn.

Your chart is very beautiful, it looks like a mountain range. You have several very strong points. Sun in Aquarius brings brilliance, originality. The Moon was in Taurus when you were born, and Luna is exalted in Taurus. Your emotional nature is possessive and sensual, warm and deep. Venus is in Pisces in your chart and Aphrodite (Venus) rose from the waters (Pisces), this is also a planet in exaltation. Your love is compassionate and merciful, your sensitivity exquisite. Jupiter and Saturn are in Virgo bringing precision and perfectionism and a fine attention to detail. Aquarius and Virgo are most accentuated in your chart. You have talent to work with numbers, fields of energy, computers. Your nerves may be easily taxed. You are a humanitarian.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I can do a couple more if you want, give me information, i\'ll do a couple and come back as I can an do the rest.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

bump

[Icebreaker]

Hey FTR! I\'d appreciate it if you could do mine.
Born 8/23/67, 8:52 PM, Minneapolis, MN

Thanks!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

S, there is no immediately apparent reason why you should attract aggressive women; that of course does not mean there isn\'t one, it only means that I can\'t see it on the face of things. It would be important for a question like that to have your birth time. If there is no way to find that out, could you describe to me in more detail what you look like and if you have any chronic diseases or ailments, what your physical constitution is like. I can make guesses at time based on that and see if everything else falls into line. You may present a challenge. You should have very high charm factor and present as somewhat enigmatic/magnetic. Talk about DIHL. A young girl wouldn\'t have any idea what to think of you, just know that alarm bells are going off, I would think a 30\'s woman would want to test herself with you. You carry with you portents of transformation but it could be hard to tell whether this would be a good thing or a bad thing, the feeling is just subconsciously conveyed that she will be changed as a result of her contact with you and she may not think she wants that. Scorpio is the sign of regeneration, the 8th house is the house of death and rebirth, transformation.

Can you get a birth time?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

back in a minute

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Virgo, Pisces rising, Moon in Aries, Mercury in Leo, Venus in Virgo, Mars in SCORPIO IN THE 8th HOUSE, conjunct NEPTUNE IN THE 8th HOUSE, Chiron in Pisces. Virgo Pisces rising is in conflict with Moon in Aries. Your emotional nature is quick, ardent, forceful - you could be the pick \'em up and fling \'em down kinda guy, nobody\'s ever quite good enough, because Virgo is perfectionistic and critical, idealistic but materialistic, so that the urge is for the perfect to materialize and the ego urge is to manifest that or cause it to be manifest. Your Aries moon maybe just wants to um...play. Mercury in Leo I don\'t know, and my books are packed because I\'m moving to a new apartment in a couple of weeks. Venus in Virgo, so Venus is conjunct your sun. I would think that your charm lies in being unassuming. You\'re the quiet guy, and you know how dangerous those quiet guys can be. With Pisces rising, you\'re sensing or feeling everything in your environment and you may easily overtire or be easily hurt. Venus in Virgo is the virgin\'s virgin, in the sense of finding purity attractive, also you want to assist and be of service, it is important to you in a relationship to feel like you are making things better. You may have trouble with the madonna/whore complex on the down side; on the upside, you are a lover with/of refinement and precision. Chiron is in Pisces conjunct the ascendant so you may have healing skills/you may be easily wounded. Be extremely careful of drink or drugs; I wouldn\'t even advise you to experiment if you haven\'t already. I wouldn\'t f*ck with you on a bet, all respect, because I would imagine your vengence is most swift and ruthless. You have allure. Your empathy quotient is high.

[SwingerMD]

Very interesting. Can you please do mine FTR?
Born: 8/26/75, Seattle, WA not certain of time.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey FTR,

I found it. 8:05am.

Perfect health, 5\'-10\", 192 lbs.(muscle not fat), average looking at best, brown hair w/some gray, brown eyes.

Thanx.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

2/12/65, 10:30 AM, Rochester, NY

(I love this stuff!)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

fulltilt, your astrological insights are fascinating..i think you have a talent for it from reading some of the others you have done...couldyou please do mine? i know you are overwhelmed but it would make me very happy...you are fascinating to read and you write wonderfully....my dob is 7-14-67, Troy, Alabama, born round 6am...please? thnk you so much fulltiltredhead...:)

[franki]

Am I the only one who is not interested in astrology? /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

[EXIT63]

Pretty much.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sigipa, is your hair light or dark? Do you have much body hair and what color is it? How is your body proportioned and where do you carry weight if it is not evenly distributed - would you say you are long in the torso, or your legs are most of your height, or neither - describe the bone structure of your face - eyes deep set, prominent cranial ridge, or wider apart, height of forehead, proportion of nose to rest of face and its shape, what is the shape of your face, describe your jaw line, do you have facial hair, describe the shape of your hands and their proportions (fingers longer than palm or about the same, fingers tapered, same from first joint to tip, prominent knuckles, texture of palm is it fleshy or flat, also what color is your skin - if you\'re white, is it pale and ruddy, olive and you tan easily, or what.

Thanks.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Jamboot - Sun in Cancer, Cancer rising, Libra Moon. Gifts of love are likely to be food; you like to cook and home is your haven, you\'re sensitive, sometimes touchy, may be hard for you to take a joke if the joke\'s on you, you\'re helpful to your friends and you make friends easily and quickly, you have a forceful presence (1st House Sun)- it looks like you move around a lot, you need someone who understands and respects your routines and personal habits because they are deeply ingrained, you know how to please people and you pick their vibes up quick, your chart makes me think maybe Playah Play! I think you probably have a big daddy vibe and like a woman who can relate to you on that level.
Any of this hit? I\'ve actually never done this before. I\'ve gone around the room at parties and told people I\'ve never met their sun signs, but never done quick sketches like this.

[marv14yag]

Sigipa...I think you\'re just too short.

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi FTR,

Wow. This is very interesting. Here you go.

Hair: Dark brown
Body Hair: brown
Body: Long in torso
Face: Eyes deep set, prominent cranial ridge, long narrow jaw line, clean shaven
Fingers/Palm: About the same, not tapered, prominent knuckles, texture of palm is not really fleshy or flat.
Skin: White, tans easily
Nose: medium/large, narrow
Forehead: medium/high

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Heidi, Aquarius Sun, Taurus rising, Moon in Cancer. A presence with depth as well as sparkle. You project a warm sensuality and wear clothes well, with an emphasis on fabrics with tactile appeal and easy elegance. You do casual as beautifully as you do dressy. It is likely your neck and shoulders are particularly lovely and sensitive to stimulation. You are not one to be tied down and may be especially suited to polyamory. You have a wide-ranging intellect and need a partner who can connect with you on many many subjects and levels mentally as well as emotionally and physically. You are broad-minded and humanitarian. Be careful about getting involved with people you work with/for - you may have a particular attraction to powerful men in your career field, best not to go there if you can help it. In lovemaking you want to get down to it; it is also true that you are especially attentive to nuance, detail and creation of environment, so that you may tend toward specific scenarios, your inclinations may be somewhere outside of convention and centered around enjoyment of only certain kinds of activities. You need a lover with a very wide range who is not possessive.

[jamesdeanmartin]

FTR - I\'m similar to Jamboot 7/12/1978 2:22 AM. From what I\'ve read and looked up, I am the prototypical cancer, right down to the physical characteristics and everything.

JDM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Scorpio rising as I suspected; however, the time inputted moves everything around, so that constellation of planets that would have been in the 8th house is actually in the 12th house, but that\'s no help at all. My sun is in the 12th house, too. Everything about you is mysterious, magnetic, and enigmatic, you\'re like a one-way mirror. You can see them, they can\'t see you, except for fascination. Sag moon gives you a swashbuckling quality - we Sag\'s are known to be gangsters of luv, unscrupulous in our methods and loving the chase, loving nothing better than a bit of fun. Do you see that I can feel you from here, across the ethers? I got Scorpio, scorpio rising from you almost immediately, also guessed the Sag, which is what I was feeling when I said you were a good sportsman. Your attraction is for young, lithe, and lovely and you prefer to keep your independence. Do you play an instrument by any chance? I\'m asking for my own research - every man I\'ve ever had anything much to do with was at least a double scorpio and usually a guitar player - current crush is Cap double Scorpio guitar player.Dunno what to tell you. You attract self-assured women because self-assured women are all that can handle you.I\'ll reseach further. This needs time to steep, maybe after I leave it alone awhile, the penny will drop.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FTR,

I\'m really diggin\' this. I do play guitar in fact.

Thanks for an amazing and thought provoking experience.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My pleasure.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

jd, thanks - I need place of birth -city/state or country/city

[druid]

Hey FTR thanks. Pretty accurate, not 100%, but pretty close. I don\'t know about be nervous, but your right about the math and the computers. I have always been good with math and in december I will get my BS in computer science. i am thinking of goin for a MS. but you forgot about my uncanny wit, incredile charm, and handsome good looks /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif. (NOT TO MENTION MY IN ABILTY TO SPELL CORRECTLY)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I read the title on not being approachable and thought this might be right up my alley. But... the big age gap thing being involved as well would lead me to have no really constructive input.

What I might add though (going WAAY back to the first page of this thing) is that most girls I am friends with seem to be a bit scared of any guy close to 40 who still likes a 25 year old. I am around mostly very successful and wealthy people, so the first thing you think when you put 40 and 25 together is token wife or prize of somesort. If you\'re clear on the fact that you just wanted to tag a few little hotties then I understand why you are having luck with them.

Why the 25 year old? Is it the body? The attitude? Lifestyle? Just Curious as I have my own reasons to dislike 22 year olds but adore any woman over 25 that\'s got all the bits and pieces I\'m looking for.

I should add that most of my friends are in the 23-28 age group so I\'m privy to the mindset of the women we\'re talking about here.

As for the Astrology... FTR I\'ll pm you my info if you\'d mind taking a stab at it. I\'m curious though as I\'m not exactly like my sign would indicate.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hm. So, if you don\'t mind my asking, since you are privy to their thoughts, what do they think when a guy in his 40\'s hits on them? just curious

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FTR, bluntly...... not much usually.

It happens alot and I can\'t blame a single 40 year old for trying with a 25 year old as there\'s a look about a woman that age.

It really depends on what the guy is trying to do. A few years ago when most of my friends were early twenties we\'d see 35-40 year olds try to talk with them at gas stations or coffee shops etc. and usually it would freak them out completely. You can see the difference between someone who is being genuine and just talking vs someone who is thinking about a more naughty situation.

Simply put, they (and I) find that a guy like that obviously can\'t get along with his own age group. (half your age plus 7 as a minumum etc.) or he\'s just out for sex, in which case you may find a girl who likes an older guy.... but there\'s a catch. (so one friend says) Either that or the guys having a midlife crisis and he\'s going to be bringing a lot of baggage and his nervousness might impede his ability to \"perform\"

I only know one girl who has dated an older guy and he was really a cool guy as I met him. (she likes older guys for sex, but not relationships) But it didn\'t last as things at those ages are too different. THe problem with him was his lack of sexual abilities she said. You see you\'re supposed to get better with age but apparently this guy was thinking she was pretty inexperienced so her description was of an inconsiderate lover. That\'s not a friendly moniker that one would forget quickly.

Girls that age are either very mature and confident and hence they are using you, not the other way around, or they are just their age and feel a much older guy is intrusive and scary. One funny thing is that two of my friends entertain guys who are older for a while (ie talk with them over a few drinks) just to play with them knowing they can. A young woman who realizes her sexuality can do the same things a 50 year old gazillionaire can. That is, influence people and make them believe things that aren\'t real. (dealmaker mentality) It\'s the laughing behind the guys back when he walks away thinking he was a hit part that the girls get a kick out of.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Youch. It\'s interesting to me because there are quite young, handsome, affluent attorneys at my firm and while I might enjoy their beauty, they don\'t move me at all -- I recognize their appeal but they just don\'t turn me on. It\'s hard for me to put myself in a guy\'s place re women that much younger -- I understand the girls are pretty, but ... toward guys that age I feel more like a big sister or at best a friend.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

There\'s a different mind set in a way though. Some truly don\'t care about age, but the fact is most do. Once past about 27 I think that 10-20 years different doesn\'t matter, but at 22-23 I think most haven\'t fully morphed into the person they will be for the majority of their adult life. So if the guys are in a law firm and young and affluent, I\'d guess they are at least 27-28 though.... in the range where things change. (thinking that an attorney has already done undergrad, law school and articling etc..... he\'s at least 26 when he starts to practise)

I think it also depends on the age of the guy, my brother had lots of girls who came on to me in a very strong way. I\'m 8 years older than him. But at the time his friends were 18-20 I was around 26-27 and looked about 23 but had a nice house, nice car etc. etc. so it goes back to the why do they like you bit.

[EXIT63]

I think it\'s a cultural thing. Isn\'t it true that in Eastern European countries it is quite common for the ladies to marry men 10, 15 or 20 years older?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have loved men in their twenties and it\'s been a case of, gee, if we were closer in age, but at the same time being able to be very close friends and enjoy each other\'s company. A 20 year divide and I feel a responsibility to protect, maternal instinct kicks in. I can\'t go much younger than 35, which is already a decade\'s difference.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Swinger, you have Virgo Sun, Aries Moon like Icebreaker. Can you get me a birth time? What I\'m getting when I look at your chart with a 12:00 noon birth time (usually what you run if you have no accurate time) doesn\'t jive with what I get from your posts, something\'s not falling into place.

[DrSmellThis]

People have always tried to comfort their fears and jealousies by clinging to popular taboos and stereotypes. Why waste our time judging others\' choices? Love takes it\'s own path regardless. Judgementalism is my biggest pet peeve, I have to admit.

The statements made about older men who like younger women having \"baggage\" and not being able to get along with their peers are baseless. Research indicates that couples with large age differences are just as happy and likely to last as same age couples.

By the way, my last serious relationship was a positive and healthy experience for 3 1/2 years, with a woman 10 years younger than I. I get along very well with people of all ages, and am emotionally healthy. My friend Jason is in a happy relationship with a woman 10 years his senior.

This reminds me of people who have the annoying habit of saying \"eeeeuuuuw...gross...!\" or \"disgusting!\" about others\' everyday life choices. I\'d better not get started. We\'d all be happier and less stessed by learning to celebrate the beauty of life.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Anyone else out there into astrology? inviting evaluation/comments if you have any

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I like it when you get started. You always have something positive to say. Thanks for the keeping it on the higher level.

[xxxPantero]

I would love it if you did a horoscope on me. What information do you need?

[jamesdeanmartin]

Hackettstown, NJ

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Date of birth (mo/day/year), time of birth, place of birth (city/state or country/city)Bear in mind it may not fit at all, especially with no birth time. But I\'m having fun trying, and it\'s fun to have a database of forum members and look at what they have in common.Thanks for playing!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Exit, I dunno. Things seem to be loosening up in our culture, too. I was married 8 years to a man 12 years younger and currently see someone 5 years younger - when I was in my teens and 20\'s, dated men a good decade older - the age thing sometimes really is just a number. Until you hit your 40\'s and then it\'s a reality! lol

[Icemone]

Hi FullTilt Readhead,

The Forum is DEFINATELY more exciting /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

As a Man who plays guitar and understands and
enjoys BOTH of the C\'s you mentioned...I\'d also
appreciate if you could do my Astrology chart.

12/8/68 Staten Island, New York little after 12 noon
( and it snowed out from what I\'ve been told LOL )

Your question and Sophies\' : Some Men LOVE being
cunning linguists and some can learn and or be taught
to like it.

I believe in even exchange...

Icemone

[xxxPantero]

8/29/83, Uknown Time, Trinidad/California (there is a place in Trinidad called California)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s right. It\'s not fair to your partner to just sit back and be dissatisfied - a little coaching and a little patience and WOO-HOO! I\'ve taught and been taught and been completely rewarded either way.

Thanks for your birth data. I\'ll come back to you.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Okay..

I\'ve been through this more times than I care to count, but for the sake of some basic enlightenment, I\'ll give it another go.

It\'s a simple fact that women mature faster than men. The age range we\'re talking about, as you said, is a time of change. Well.. with change comes curiosity and exploration. I have dated many women who have said that they are tired of the way their male peers treat them. They enjoy the attention and patience that an older man can give them. They also complain about how selfish men their age are when it comes to sex. They find that being with an older man frees them from the tedious social pressures that are inevitably part of their daily lives. They can relax and be themselves without the fear of being judged uncool or inadequate.

1. You will never be witness to a man who is successfully dating younger women hitting on them. If you have seen this, then you have seen a loser. The fact of the matter is, that I never \"hit\" on younger women. I get to know them. They either approach me, or it happens as the result of a mutual desire to do so.

2. You don\'t know about these women dating an older guy, because they would rather die than tell you. Let\'s say, for example, that one of these women you mentioned tell you they are dating a 40 yr old man. What would you tell them. I\'m going to take a wild guess and say that it wouldn\'t be their proudest moment.

3. I can\'t speak for other men, but I date younger women for reasons that most people don\'t consider. My favorite age is 23. This means that they have usually severed ties with everything high school and haven\'t built up much emotional baggage. They are way ahead of guys their age and are looking for something more. There\'s not a lot of game playing and the relationship is very relaxed and comfortable. I am still friends with the vast majority of the women I have dated in this age group. I can\'t say that for any other. The first time I dated a younger women it was completely by accident. I wasn\'t trying to date her, it just happened. Since then I\'m just relaxed and groovy to all women and let fate take it\'s course. I never target women of any particular age, race, religion, etc. It just so happens that most of my dates are in the 20-25 age group. I don\'t date them to impress myself or anyone else. I just date the women that I like and the women who like me. The concept of a man dating a younger women to feel young again is totally bogus. If anything, I would think that they make you feel your age. It seems like dating a younger women should be a painful experience for someone in the throws of mid-life crisis.

4. My original post was about wanting to create some variety in the personality types that I date. I know that there are women who would like to date me, but for what ever reason, just don\'t have the ability to follow through. At first, I thought this was due to the age factor. I now know it has more to do with me personally. I\'m simply looking for ways to empower these slightly hesitant/apprehensive women to do what they wanted to do in the first place. Basically, I think my problem really has nothing to do with age at all and I\'m very sorry that I mentioned it.

Thanx.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sigipa,

Noticed you were replying to me so I\'ll keep this simple.
I was replying to FTR\'s question about what younger women (23-25) think of much older guys hitting on them. (see your answer #1... that\'s the guy we were talking about)

I agree with much that you said, except perhaps #2. If a woman is happy with a man for the reason you mention about being free of social pressures etc. why wouldn\'t they talk about it?

Ok, back to your original question...pheromones etc. Girls I\'m around tend to get really friendly around SOE and a bit more touchy around NPA and P10. It gets back to what you said about getting around the hesitation bit, if your hard to approach the -nol seems to be the one, unless you want to read up on A1, although I have no experience with it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

very good, very very good...thank you very much!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi,

Sorry for the unsolicited response. I just wanted to provide some additional insight for guys like golem.

I appreciate your answer to my original question. I was waiting for a second opinion. I have managed to come up with a short list of products that I intend to try. I will post the results in a few weeks.

Thanks Again.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, speak your mind, say your piece. I\'m glad you\'re here.

R

[Funlover]

Hey FullTiltRedhead, you sound like you really know what you are doing here. If you have the time, I would appreciate your insight on mine... Born 1-26-61, 7:10am, Valentine NE

Thanks in advance!!

Funlover

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Major caveat: I don\'t. I have aspects that say I\'d make a good astrologer and I\'ve studied a lot, but these attempts on the forum are my first real attempts to read for anyone else, so I could be entirely wrong. I had a sharp intuition about Sigipa but it\'s because I know Scorpio vibe like the back of my hand. Other signs/energies are not so familiar to me and I\'m shooting in the dark. I\'ll put your info in my database and I\'ll get back to you when I can - thanks for the info and for letting me try. BTW - I did get your email, your chapter suggestions are good, and I\'m hoping maybe Sophie and I can collaborate. I don\'t know when or if. But I like the idea and have squirelled it away for future reference. The mood will eventually hit and I\'ll go for it. Thanks!

[CptKipling]

Can you guess what i am? Horoscope-wise anyway!

[Funlover]

Thanks, FullTilt, You are the BEST!!! I think everybody on the form loves you!

\"The mood will eventually hit, and I\'ll go for it\"

Yes, that\'s the way I am, and I think it\'s the way it works with artists in general, whether they write, draw, paint, or whatever. I\'m sure the book will be great, I wish you the best of luck, and remember, I get the 1st copy!! lol

Funlover

[Funlover]

Hi CptKipling!

Did you intend to write me? I think you may want the \"Horoscope Queen\", FullTilt Redhead herself!!! She says she is just getting a good start, but she sure sounds impressive! I am just learning all this stuff myself, but nice to hear from you anyway. Feel free to write anytime. I sure enjoy your posts. In fact I enjoy everyones posts. I am learning a lot!

Thanks,

Funlover

[CptKipling]

No I didn\'t, yours was the last post when I started writing, thats all.

Prais\'d be FTR!

[Funlover]

I second the praise to FTR. We need someone around here to teach all of us dogs some new tricks!!

Funlover