MEN, help me/THIS is why

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Read Druid\'s post re \"Interesting Observation.\" No one said one thing about his comment that the girl at work who flirted with him was a \"bit of a slut.\"

Look. Make up your mind. Do you want a girl to show she\'s interested or not? I think NOT, when we get right down to it. Because if she shows too much that she likes you or finds you desirable, she morphs into a \"slut\" in your mind.

Which is exactly and precisely the reason women don\'t come right out and say they want you.

Do you get it?

P.S. When you are older you will better appreciate sluts. In some circles, that word\'s a compliment.

(Can I get a witness?)

[Watcher]

Ok personally she shouldnt be flirting if she is serious with a guy, but society wants the best of both words.

Females - want to have a provider but have sex on the side
Guys - want a steady root, but some excitement on the side.

Some\"alpha\" males have high sex drive and make society bend to their thinking by making it so hard on others that women are forced to sleep around to get anywhere.
Alpha females like to get sex from many quarters to a) go up the ladder - illusions of power b) get access to all the alpha males for the best reproductive opportunites.

Me personally if shes with someone and shes flirting with me and i know it - she will be ignored (knowing the information on this forum and the fact that married and committed women flirt with me as a ego boost and keep me occupied. I will flirt with single women who are available if i like them but i have forced myself to get grumpy with those married women who like some \"attention\" on the side because they feel the need to be constantly propped up by all men to keep themselves feeling good. This is how people work they arent strong enough to motivate themselves without having any attention coming their way.

Most males are different they want all women to pay them attention and get \"aggressive\" when their sexual needs arent being met (mostly attention only from women to make themselves feel good) hence my constant referal to sexual behaviour being the basis of most of human motivation. Not money greed or power - they all go back to sex drive.
Females are the same if they arent getting attention then the guy is either a) i moron and one to be giggled at or ignrored
b) someone who doesnt toe her line by peacocking over her and then someone to be have a false sexual harrassment complaint filed against them.
This is how society works.

www.ebetonline.com.au (\"http://www.ebetonline.com.au\")

[CptKipling]

DNA is the root of all evil, or rather, the survival of an individuals DNA. Think about it, from the beggining of time...

[CptKipling]

I think watchers post hits the nail quite firmly on the head.

Men are not attracted (for long term relationships) to women who appear to openly flirt with a lot of men, makes you think that they will do it while they are in the realtionship.

On the other hand, it can be very attractive for a quick fling.

Ironically, the most open and forward flirting-wise of my mates is VERY intimidated when HE gets approched by women, quite funny to watch /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Watcher]

It is quite funny to watch also lol. Alas they cant handle it, its a loss of control. Men love control as do women it means that events are at least on a short term basis \"under our control\" the only way to really control ones life is to be completley flexible when faced with day to day life and have many direction based plans to go forward. I love hitting nails on the head - it gives me a feelgood feeling inside to be right on things that i know i can be right on. Other things i admit im wrong and adapt my thinking so that i am right. The ultimate control - self control.

www.ebetonline.com.au (\"http://www.ebetonline.com.au\")

[CptKipling]

Always aproach things with an open mind. yada yada yada lol

[upsidedown]

FTR, I didn\'t read his \"slut\" remark the same way you did. I don\'t think he was saying the she was a \"slut\" because she was fliriting with him. I think what he was saying was that he already knows this woman is a \"slut\" based on things he\'s already known about her prior to this time. So, I took it that he\'s already known other things about her that causes him to know that she is a slut......and what he was saying is that he wasn\'t sure that her flirting with him was a good indication that the pheromones were working because her flirting isn\'t out of her normal nature. So, her flirting wasn\'t his reason for calling her a slut....just saying that the known nature of this particular woman caused him to not feel certain that his results were due to the pheromones.

That\'s how I took it anyway. But, I may have misread it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I personally like it when girls flirt. I don\'t think they are sluts. The only thing i don\'t like, is if i know she is seeing someone, yet she still flirts with me. That tells me she would do the same thing if i were her guy, with someone else. Then i classify her as a booty call.

[druid]

OK Lemme clear some things up--

1)I know from my post that it sounds like I implied that since she flirted with me therefore she is a slut. That was NOT my meaning. I thought that this girl was slut because I knew for a FACT that she was \"slobbing the knob\" of another guy at work, and I am pretty sure she was doin another guy at work all while she had a boyfriend who was paying her bills and bought her a new car, and who recently payed for the expenses to move to Las Vegas.
2)I wish the entire human race could just stop playing games and be honest with one and another so we would not need these mind games like NLP, confidence building tech., and all those stupid \"how to get a guy to fall\" crap articles that women read to recipcate our mind games.
3)I think sluts make the world a better place!!!(because I would NEVER allow myself to be the position of that stupid moron BF of hers -- I would be in jail, those 2 guys would be in the hosiptal and maybe her too!!) and I think if our socitey wasn\'t filled with double standards and men were held to that standard there would be a HELLA lot more male sluts then female. I for one would be one myself.

PS-Thanks for noticing my posts FTR. Cool that someone (esp. someone that got so popular so quick on here) noticed my post.

[proteus]

I do think the guy who posted did not mean she was a little bit of slut because she showed some interested but probably because of other stuff he\'s heard about her. But this aside, there\'s a huge difference between being a \"slut\" and showing a guy you\'re interested in him. I think in this day and age men are very receptive to a lady indicating interest overtly and speaking for myself that\'s a big plus to me when a woman shows me she is secure enough to approach me. My first girlfriend (gorgeous German blonde and definitely not a slut) approached me, not vice versa - maybe European women are more like this??? (I dunno). As far as a \"slut\" - if she has a rep for sleeping around with stacks of guys then this is where the term for me is applicable, and I know it\'s judgemental on my part as I\'ve been with a few women myself, but nevertheless, a female who seems to have slept with every other guy you know will get that rep no matter what.

[xxxPantero]

A girl sleeping around with every guy she knows is the same as a guy proposing to every girl he knows.

When they go into a relationship, the other partner won\'t feel special. The woman won\'t feel special when he does propose, because he\'s proposed to every other girl. The guy won\'t feel special because she\'s slept with every other guy. But men have come up with the term \'slut\' for this type of behavior. Women haven\'t.

It\'s men\'s (women\'s, too, actually) natural instinct to feel possessive and jealous. Everybody wants to be not just the best, but the ONLY. That goes for sex, marriage, etc. But men and women differ in what they consider special. That\'s the catch.

I don\'t think any of us ever truly grow out of those possessive and jealous urges. For that matter, why would you want to? The best type of ride IS a rollercoaster, isn\'t it?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So, Liquid. I guess that means if you\'re seeing one girl, you don\'t flirt with any other girls.I was born at night but not LAST night...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"So, Liquid. I guess that means if you\'re seeing one girl, you don\'t flirt with any other girls.I was born at night but not LAST night... \"
-FTR

Actually I think Liquid makes a valid point. Men for the most part aren\'t used to women coming on strong whereas many women get this from high school and many times even younger. When a women flirts with a guy that guy has a tendency to really think she\'s after him. Although I have to say if a woman\'s looking for a guy and a guy who\'s married or with someone else flirts with her she\'ll probably have a tendency to think the guy is a jerk when she find out he\'s taken. I think flirting is okay but I think everyone needs to learn when it\'s okay and when it\'s not. It\'s best if you\'re in a relationship not to do it. (That\'s how a lot of grade - B stalker chick films start off). /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

As for the whole \"slut\" thing if what Druid says is true about her (I don\'t know I wasn\'t there) then I have to say this is slut-like activity. But flirting is definitely not slutish activity.

-The Bat
Master of Men

[druid]

Everybody go watch chris rock\'s comedy special \"Bigger and Blacker\" he put it best.

\"..Men can stop chasing it -- but even that requries some rehab, but if it chase us we can\'t run that fast\"
\"It ain\'t sh-t for women to turn down sex, because every guy you have know since you were 13 has been trying to f--k you!\"

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Uh, what he said.

-The Bat

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Lame. Lame, tired, and pitiful.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Proteus:

I remember hearing or reading something quite some time ago that European females are more likely to approach men. Also, from my own experiences, Latin American females also approach men as well.

[EXIT63]

3)I think sluts make the world a better place!!!(because I would NEVER allow myself to be the position of that stupid moron BF of hers -- I would be in jail, those 2 guys would be in the hosiptal and maybe her too!!) ...

Why would the 2 guys be in the hospital? Did they force her?

[CptKipling]

\"European\" females is a HUGE generalisation, think about all the different cultures and social groups. I think that (in the UK anyway) it is very hard to find many similarities in the way girls/women act at all (ok exageration, but you get the point).

Have to say, there is a LOT of the kind of activity where a group of girls goes out, and try to set each other up, i.e by asking for each other, its quite poncy really. This can lead to slutty behavour, trying to get as many men in one night as possible (not really that offensive, but...), when they already have boyfriends, or trying to get as many boyfriends as possible.

I have always thought that this is true:

Women who sleep around and get with loads of guys are called sluts

Men who do the same are, well, just men.

lol

[CptKipling]

EXIT, heres my take on this.

No they probably did not force her, but if they knew she had a boyfriend, then they are signing themselves away to the consequences of their actions

If they didn\'t know, I wouldn\'t do anything, apart from maybe tell them what was going on. I wouldn\'t be happy with them, but would have to control myself because it wasnt their fault.

But if they knew and actively pursued her....../ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif there would be trouble.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

P.S. When you are older you will better appreciate sluts. In some circles, that word\'s a compliment.

(Can I get a witness?)

<hr></blockquote>
You gotta witness.

I have always wanted a license plate that read:

BASSLUT

[**DONOTDELETE**]

lol

[druid]

EXIT: They would be in the hosiptal because I would beat the living f--king s--t out \'em!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"Lame. Lame, tired, and pitiful.\"
-FTR

Maybe but, true. Men and women are different species and work different ways. In our society we try to ignore this and that\'s why we have so many problems today. A lot of guys feel the way women think is lame because to many of us it\'s illogical, I personally just understand women work and think differently and if I want to be with one I have to understand that or join the gay circus. But I expect the same consideration. If a woman flirts with me and is married or whatever I don\'t get mad because I understand women and I understand people a little bit more than most but it is disappointing when they flirt, you get hooked on them and then find out they\'re married, but life goes on and it\'s no biggie.

-The Bat a.k.a Neo

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sometimes I say things just to be provocative and get discussion started.

[EXIT63]

You, provocative, I never would\'ve known !

[a.k.a.]

As far as STD’s go, a silly “nice girl” is more dangerous than a smart “slut”. Silly girls don’t plan to have sex, and then they do. Smart girls are always prepared. “Nice girls” don’t want to offend anybody. “Sluts” can always get it somewhere else.

As far as relationships go, “sluts” will [censored] your friends and piss you off for a while (until you [censored] her friends). “Nice girls” will find somebody else and break your heart for months. If you can’t get along with the “slut” you’re with, find another one. If you can’t get along with the “nice girl” you’re with, negotiate, go to therapy, read books, spend more quality time...

“Sluts” may compare you to other lovers. “Nice girls” will hold you to an ideal that no mortal man can ever achieve.

The main difference between “sluts” and “nice girls” is attitude and reputation. You don’t really know who’s the most promiscuous, loyal, or honest.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

AKA, you are so on point.
-The Bat

[**DONOTDELETE**]

a.k.a., insightful.

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

The main difference between “sluts” and “nice girls” is attitude and reputation. You don’t really know who’s the most promiscuous, loyal, or honest.

<hr></blockquote>
Weaaal,
Most of your post appears to define \"sluts\" as the sexually experienced and \"nice girls\" as the sexually naive. And your conclusions fit those definitions.

The last sentence changes paradigms completely. And its conclusion fits it, too. But it seems important to recognize the non sequitor between the two.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, it would seem important to define \"slut.\" The definition I\'m most familiar with is a woman who is sexually experienced - doesn\'t necessarily imply promiscuity. Sounds like you guys are saying a slut is a woman who\'s promiscuous. Um...how\'d she get experience without a lot of partners, yo? ...


Bassman.
Say huh, wut? lol

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

Bassman.
Say huh, wut? lol

<hr></blockquote>just havin fun...

[Icemone]

Hi FullTilt, all,

I can only speak for myself.
I like flirtatious women and enjoy people who are fun and don\'t take themselves too seriously.

That being said, I DO NOT like flakes and teases and liers.

Flirting is fun. I don\'t consider sexually active women to be sluts. They know what they like and are HONEST. I admire that.

I only spend time with people who show mutual respect and courtesy
( bare mimimal requirements for anyone, friends, lovers, \"[censored] buddies\" )
and THEN hopefully discover that she is also passionate, willing to share Adventurous...
She is fun, intelligent, and stable enough to trust in her own decisions and feel good about those decisions----instead of the type whos opinions are so easily swayed by friends, family and society who, may or may not have her best interests at heart.

Glad you joined the Forum,
Icemone

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thank you sir.

[a.k.a.]

BassMan,
I admire anybody that can break opinions down into their logical elements. (Politics must drive you mad.) But, this time, I think you missed a few details.

The formal definition of “slut” ( as found in Webster’s) is quite broad (slovenly, lewd, saucy...). It includes prostitutes, flirts, and girls that just dress trashy.
I used the word in quotations to indicate that I was going by social convention rather than formal definitions. ( Maybe it would have been clearer if I’d have said “so-called sluts”.) As indicated in the section you quoted, I believe that social convention labels girls as “sluts” or “nice girls” on the basis of reputation and attitude (rather than sexuality or character).

For example, a recently divorced woman hits it off with a handsome, much younger co-worker during TGIF. She has too much to drink and takes him home. The next day he wants nothing to do with her and she’s heartbroken. Is she basically a slut that got burned, or a nice girl that got seduced?
Another divorced woman is new in town. She lets everybody know that she’s dying to go clubbing to “blow some steam off”. All the guys want to take her out, because it’s obvious that she wants to get laid. She goes out with three of them in the course of one month, has sex with each of them, and isn’t satisfied with any of them. Slut or nice girl?

The formal definition of “promiscuous” is someone that is indiscriminate in their sex partners. By social convention, we use the word “slut” AS IF to mean a promiscuous girl. But does that really apply, or is it just a derogatory term to stigmatize a certain type of sexually assertive woman that doesn’t care what other’s think of her?

The above examples are taken from life. Who would you guess was labeled as a “slut” ? Who would you logically conclude — based on formally accepted definitions — was more promiscuous? Who was more discriminating?

So you see, it was society’s non sequitor that you noticed, not mine.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'d be very curious to hear you answer your own questions, if you wouldn\'t mind, just for my own edification. Which of those are sluts and which are \"nice girls\"? BTW, what does marital status have to do with it? i.e. \"recently divorced\"

[a.k.a.]

FullTilt,
Take a guess. I\'ll probably post the answer later.

Obviously marital status has NOTHING to do with it. So why did you find it evocative?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Because I\'m a divorced slut. I have no idea how you would answer your own questions - I\'m not asking you to be fooling around, I\'m asking because I can\'t fathom the way ya\'ll think about this stuff. If marital status has no bearing, then why mention it?

[a.k.a.]

I mentioned it to be evocative. Because the stigma of “slut” is already attached to the status “divorced”.

If your definition of “slut” is “promiscuous female” then the lady that had too much at the TGIF was a slut. In real life, the lady that dated the three guys got stigmatized and everybody felt sorry for the first one.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The stigma of slut is already attached to the status of divorced.

that\'s just fascinating

i\'d love to hear more

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

I mentioned it to be evocative. Because the stigma of “slut” is already attached to the status “divorced”.

If your definition of “slut” is “promiscuous female” then the lady that had too much at the TGIF was a slut. In real life, the lady that dated the three guys got stigmatized and everybody felt sorry for the first one.

<hr></blockquote>Didn\'t see the rest of this post until you had already given the results. Which is too bad, because I would have guessed correctly.

I went hunting for definations and usage myself. What I was really playing off of was Red\'s comment that in some circles, the word is a compliment. And the point of my getting into the converation at all was the rather rude and unfair practice of stigmatizing our female play partners just because they happen to enjoy it.

The on-line thesaurus I found listed \"slut\" under the category \"libertine\" (among others). The main defination of the category libertine was \"sensualist\". Thus, there are most definately positive and non-stigmatizing uses of the word.

I would have guessed correctly because the second female was honest in her desire to have a good time. Society seems far more terrified of a female who sets out to have a good time than than it is of one who just gets sloppy. Females can \"have\" sex, they just can\'t appear intentional about finding it without getting castigated.

[Whitehall]

The way I think about the word \"slut\" is that it\'s reserved for a sexually active female who DOES NOT RESPECT herself. A woman who knows what she wants and gets it is fine with me but a woman who is using sex to help herself feel real and valued is going down the wrong path. She offers herself too cheaply.

If a woman is having sex because she is horny - great!

If a woman is having sex because she loves me - great!

If a woman is having sex bacause she feels that is the only way people will interact with her - pathetic.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s so good.

What about a man who uses sex to feel real and valued? What do we call him?

[EXIT63]

A STUD

[EXIT63]

Guys don\'t use sex to feel real and valued. They just want a good nights sleep.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think guys do use sex to feel real and valued. I think they use women to feel real and valued. I think some men feel real and valued only to the extent that they are able to \"score.\"

So I ask you again, what\'s the name for the guy who uses sex/the opposite sex this way?

[EXIT63]

Small

[proteus]

A \"player\" - it is a double standard but such is life....

[**DONOTDELETE**]

such doesn\'t have to be life

you open whosever eyes you can and i\'ll open whosever eyes i can and one day things might be different

[BassMan]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

The way I think about the word \"slut\" is that it\'s reserved for a sexually active female who DOES NOT RESPECT herself.

<hr></blockquote>That _might_ work if the person assigning the label were the woman herself. \'Cause there is no one else alive who has the right (or ability, for that matter) to decide whether or not the woman respects herself. Except perhaps her therapist.

I\'d have to think long and hard to remember the last time I heard a woman\'s therapist call her a slut.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

&lt;B&gt;So, Liquid. I guess that means if you\'re seeing one girl, you don\'t flirt with any other girls.I was born at night but not LAST night... &lt;/B&gt;&lt;P&gt;
Thats exactly what it means. If you\'re happy with what you have, why would you go in search of something else? I work with a lot of girls at my job. There are two girls that have boyfriends and flirt hardcore, not just with me but with one of my friends. However, their is another girl who has a boyfriend, she doesn\'t flirt with anyone, yet she is a good friend to me and others. To me she is definately girlfriend material because of the respect that she shows her boyfriend even when he is not around. That is not to say that flirting will lead to anything, but if you are seeing someone, its wrong as far as im concerned.

Sorry if that makes you feel guilty because you do it. Im just stating the way I feel. Everybody is not the same. Another example is my brother. He works for an accounting firm, is married and has three kids. He is constantly traveling doing audits and other crap. He has told me on many occasions how women have flirted with him and hinted on taking it further, yet the thought hasn\'t crossed his mind. Why? Because what he has right now is much greater than any 2 hour romp in the hay could be.

Right now i am not seeing anyone, so that gives me leeway to be a MANWHORE and flirt as much as i want, lol. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Watcher]

We call this guy the alpha male who has women all over him. That is my name for a guy that treats the opposite sex this way. Or a very horny guy who cant resists anything that moves. (Note ) they usually do sheep cows small children all the fam yard animals and anything else that moves.

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

[Whitehall]

\"What about a man who uses sex to feel real and valued? What do we call him?\"

An important part of being a man is the validation that he receives from a woman offering him sex. Some men swear off sex and forego this validation but most don\'t. Some have to defer this gratification.

This is a major source of the power that women have in the world - the power of validation for a man.

This can cause problems. for example, Hitler. This guy was supposedly celibrite and validated his \"manliness\" outside of a woman\'s arms - to the world\'s loss.

I would imagine that a fertile woman who NEVER got hit on would have similar issues.

[xxxPantero]

\"I think guys do use sex to feel real and valued. I think they use women to feel real and valued. I think some men feel real and valued only to the extent that they are able to \"score.\"
So I ask you again, what\'s the name for the guy who uses sex/the opposite sex this way? \"

His name is xxxPantero.

At least I\'m honest, if a little selfish.