Sex or love?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi! I\'m 19 and I never make it. I do some experience sometimes on girls, with or without pheromones, and I discovered something : All mens I know say to me to [censored] whatever who or what to develop some ability to sex. Everyone of them say they are not faithfull to their lover. But all womens I know say that I should wait love and that they are all faithful to their lover. I think there is something that do not stuck, right? Are all girls of the world stupid or are they trying to keep me innocent? Is everyone [censored] everyone projecting a totally different image of the world or my borders are this way is just the biggest coincidence ever? Please I want a lot of people answering this thank you.

[aaron]

Okiam2:

Where are you from? The way you describe the situation it appears to be behaviour based on cultural attitudes.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

okiam2, you have just quoted the most common point of view, respectively from men and women, when it comes to give advice about sex. Don\'t be surprised, they are *really* so different. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Watcher]

Ignore what women say they are always polite and leave to you to sort this out youreself you are required by default to make the move. Period dont think otherwise. Women say one thing and do another (a recent statistic is that 50% of married men and women have had sex with another partner withn the relationship most sex therapists say that to maintain a higher chance of youre partner being faithfuly that you must be jealous and use non-verbal behaviour and to be attentive at all times and not just during her periods go beyond youre instincts to keep her occupied and stop thinking of sex with another guy.

WOMEN WANT EXCITMENT AT ALL TIMES AND THE BIGGEST MISTAKES GUYS MAKE IS TO GET COMFORTABLE ONCE WITH A GIRL IN A RELATIONSHIP AND THIS IS THE MAIN REASON THEY CHEAT

followed 2ndly by the need to seek alpha male sperm. This is not bullshit ignore all women because they do stab men in the back all the time law of the jungle folks ignore the nice nice and feminists types.

[marv14yag]

Women say one thing, and mean another.

They do this, because, it fiends off the weak.

It\'s your biological JOB to be the DOMINANT male, and the women to be SUBMISSIVE, the reason it doesn\'t work is becuase, you are a geek, when was the last time you saw a geek slap a girl on the ass, and she likes it? Bull, you got to be alpha male, not just, I\'m a geek, and so, I\'ll try it once, and see if it works.

And, instead of buying those 40inch wheels for you truck, go get better clothes JACK A***.

Bart

[marv14yag]

Oh, and by the way, I think watcher knows the girls the BEST on this forum, minus me, anyway.

A true jerk, he KNOWS what he\'s talking about.

I used to be the \"NICE GUY\", and you know why? Becuase, and Watcher, back me up on this, it is SOOOO much easier to sit there, and watch the girl than it is to go take control. If the latter was easier, than girls would be taking control all the time, and they don\'t, and you think they aren\'t horny, but they are 2 times more than guys...Ever see them Girls Gone Wild tapes? Yeah, that\'s what the girls are. On the surface, you know, but deep down, they are Wild and Crazy...

Bart

[franki]

OK, enough of this Bart...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

what about me, I\'m a geek who looks like an alpha? (thats why i\'m using mones)

[Watcher]

Ill back up marv on this, they want you to take control. Nothing else is acceptable - if you dont make the move and keep doing things you will lost folks attitude changes need to be implemented to be successful and ill say this again being well built muscular gets you more attention henceforth more opportunites.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

what y\'all saying is pretty much true...for banging i don\'t mind a girl like that but for a real relationship, i want a girl that doesn\'t play these dumbass games

[CptKipling]

Watcher: I agree with what you said about the main reason why women cheat, but it is also because the man can tend to over-pamper and give the impression that SHE can do better, because this great guy( great \'cos she decided to be with him in the first place) is treating her like a princess so must be VERY concerned about keeping her; sooo... she makes the mental jump that she can get a better (NOTE: criteria very unspecific) guy.

[Watcher]

Well by giving the impression she can get better some guys are weak in nature - where they should be keeping her but also keeping up a low level pressure by with certain women making it seem like at least some competition exist but not actually with any specific target in mind. More a general thing to keep all concerned on their feet to avoid getting to comfortable. Women make the mental jump in unusuall ways that can never be specifically known. They are very unspecific in the way that they cheat but some common rules exist.

A) women always trade upwards unless drunk.
B) It usually involves getting a better \"quality\" father for her offspring whilst maintaining a provider also. 10% of all children arent the actual fathers on the birth certificate.
C) Resources or percieved something better.
D) IF SHE can do better and the male shows an interest sometimes it will break the existing relationship.
E) even when in a relationship women still look around for variation. Ie 50% of both men in women in a marriage have cheated on thier spouse at least once. Mostly not known about by the partner but those are the stats.

Once she has made the mental jump its very hard to eleminate that thought but mostly events take care of themselves she might be thinking of sleeping with 10 men but mostly those guys wont be to involved in her day to day life so she forgets it eventually.

[CptKipling]

Theseus, how does that work?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, I\'m 6\'1\", 190lbs, wide, muscular frame (and getting stronger, ive been working out) I have very dark brown (almost black) hair, wide, thick eyebrows, and I think i\'m well above average in looks (classic alpha). Although I\'m built, I\'m by no means a jock, I\'m in almost every academic club/team that my school has because I enjoy those activities (the problem is that there are very few girls in any of those). Its just that i have lowsy skills when it comes to women. I get nervous and cant keep a conversation going. Thats why i\'ve been reading up on NLP and have started using pheros.

BTW if you have any flirting tips or ways to make chicks laugh, please tell me.

[Watcher]

Thesus its all about not caring about one particular woman but trying to go for a wide spread and to help with the nervouseness the one thing you need to do is get the mindset going (and this must penetrate all youre day to day activities) is to concentrate on youre self development first. Flirting tips well learn to read body language and practice being rejected by as many women as possible with the mental aim of learning and observing how you can do it better and get further next time.

You might also want to increase youre general intelligence learn speed reading Mind mapping and mega memory and incorparate them into youre learning to increase youre adaptivness when dealing with people. Also ;with most women you can probably push things a little further without upsetting them to much but talk in generalisations if talking about sex. Like a friend of mine doesnt get very far with women his good looking but just doesnt get any. Phrase a question like that to women and ask them what he could do as far as his appraoch in general to women to get more sex.
Listen to what she says and then incorparate that into youre mental mind map - you can use the answers later on in a real mind map to remember it and to learn what to look for in the practical application of that knowledge in the future. If all else fails check here.

www.askmen.com (\"http://www.askmen.com\")
www.fastseduction.com (\"http://www.fastseduction.com\")
www.speedseduction.com (\"http://www.speedseduction.com\")

Also start taking horny goatweed and tribulus and zinc or DHEA all available from youre local health food store - it will do some interesting things with youre natural phero levels and enhance the effect that external pheros may have.

Thats also why i think that pheros work for some and not others it could be how their natural sig interacts with their external synthetic product type. (at least one aspect anyway)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks for the tips Watcher, I\'ve seen all those NLP websites, but it would really help if you gave me some links to the speed reading, mind mapping and mega memory sites.

[CptKipling]

A bit like me in some ways then, except I dont take part in any academic clubs, i\'m lazy and dissinterested when it comes to that sort of thing.

Always a must when flirting: plenty of eye contact (not too much though!). If you\'re not comfortable with it, try to make eye contact with attractive strangers on the street, they almost always smile back. One thing that i seem to be unbeatable at is finding the inuendo in things, and then creating hysterics. e.g:

Target: (Spills water on herself) Oh i\'m absolutly drenched(or soaked or wet, you get the picture)!
Cpt: I\'m sorry to hear that, but shouldn\'t you be more worried that you spilt your drink?

These kinds of things can quickly turn a casual conversation into a very flirty one, but be careful not to make it a complete surprise. Look for interest signals first, even if you think there is just a hint, go for it.

Always tease them, not like really taking the piss, but some smart coments with a cheaky grin work wonders. Dont spend too long on doing this though, move on quickly to more interesting things...!

[Watcher]

Yeah find things with double meanings and then create hysterics with it - ill join cptkipling on this once you have the knack youll be unbeatable. Use an NLP exercise to imagine youreself doing this very easily then implement it. NLP is also good for mental visual training of self before doing something.

And if you do move on to more interesting things or just go back to being boring but pipe up occasionally with a double meaning thing because it peaks a females interest as to what youre up to \"reeel them in and do em good\" double meaning there talk about fishing trust us it will however impact on the womens brain like us guys they are always thinking of sex at some level and it will impact a little.

Good work cptkipling. and another rule FLIRT FLIRT FLIRT

[**DONOTDELETE**]

in addition...this is almost a cliche...think about how women always say they want a nice guy and are tired of jerks...look again...who does she end up with? HMMMM?

[Watcher]

Women are cliches chick logic (verbal) vs chick action (what they do) and who do they end up with thats right the jerks. You ask a jerk does he get much sex he says yes. Ask the nice guy he says no. SO i judge women by the way they act not by what they say. Guys stop being confused by women get a reality check and make them accountable.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Women...accountable? Can those two words be used in the same sentance? Sorry gals...I\'ve had some bad experiences of late.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree, everytime I read something about chicks saying that they want nice guys in a magazine like Maxim, or in the newspaper, I nearly laugh my @$$ off after reading the pickup-guide. Its a shame that they have this self-destructive tendency, because I\'m sure that most of us here would rather be a nice guy if it didnt keep us from getting chicks.

[Track0714]

Did any wany watch \"Meet my Folks\" on NBC last night. Three guys get a chance to meet a beautiful girl and her parents. The parents pick the guy she will date. Two of the guys are fairly nice, the third is a jerk. He has a tatoo that says \"Trust No Woman\" in Chinese letters and he video taped himself and his ex-girlfriends having sex without the ex-girlfriends knowledge. Typical bad boy

You guessed it, she falls for the bad boy.

Last nights show was perfect example of chick logic

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Was the bad boy better looking than the nice guys? and who did the parents choose?

BTW I hardly ever watch prime time TV anymore, its nothing but garbage and smut ( no offense to anyone who likes it)

[Track0714]

the bad boy look ok. all 3 looked fine. The parents thought one of the nice guys was gay. When he was hooked up to a lie detector, the parents asked if he was gay, he said no and passed, so the parents pick that nice guy once they were sure he wasnt gay.

The daughter was a little disappointed that the parents didnt pick the bad boy. The parents said she has dated enough \"bad boys\", its time for her to try a nice guy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ummm...as a woman, I have to tell you - generally the reason we cheat is because we\'re no longer getting the quality of attention we got during the first phases of the relationship. It\'s RARELY because we\'re being over-pampered - unless, by over-pampered you mean a guy\'s flat-out kissing ass all the time because he\'s so insecure he\'s terrified we\'ll leave him. No woman likes a man who\'s too clingy. It\'s not true that we don\'t like nice guys. We DO. Just not obsequious ones ... also - sometimes we cheat because we\'re bored, just like you do - so it\'s a good idea to shake things up from time to time, try new things.
Don\'t be so bitter :-) We\'re not all bitches. I swear it.
NOW - for god\'s sake, am I the only woman in this forum??
Are there any women who can testify to the effect of any of the pheromone products sold on this site?
Feedback would be most appreciated.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

For the under-pampered woman there are many many ladies on this here forum. They have their own threads - i think men have this over rated idea that once they get a woman then she must stay faithful (me thinks its a ego problem and that men once they have a woman just dont have the drive to find another in a hurry) something about needing to flat out kiss ass all over again to find another. Also its related to testorstrone problems and the need to maintain stability to raise children etc because unfaithfulness means that that stability is no longer there and unless its an arranged marriage where two people have an agreement to have children but are able to cheat outside the marriage or relationship the conflict of interest RARLEY resolves itself.

[CptKipling]

I\'m not bitter, I\'m just annoyed at the apparant lack of morality and logical/rational thinking shown by women. I\'m sorry if my comments appear sexist, but I am only commenting based on my analysis of the way women act.

I was impressed that you didn\'t fly off on one at me for that, and argued reasonably.

I dont doubt that some times it is because you are bored, but have you ever questionaed why you are bored? Is it because you no longer have to worry whether your man likes you? And is this in turn not a result of him showing his love for you too frequently (what I meant by over pampering)?

To your first point: \"I have to tell you - generally the reason we cheat is because we\'re no longer getting the quality of attention we got during the first phases of the relationship\"

Can you or any other lady describe the attention that you are refering to? I\'m not asking rhetorically, I\'m asking because I know of nothing that I don\'t continue to do in a relationship that *I* would value.

[Watcher]

Instead of staying with me man if you are no longer satisfied
a) end the relationship and find another guy who will give you attention.
b) dont lead the guy along by remaining with him for comfort or support - if are using him for financial support dont because that is morally wrong. If you stay with him stay faithful to him or leave its that simple.

Of course ill be blasted by everyone on this because its pheromneally right according to the androgen/testostrone - couplin / ostrogen theroy which states that men must be faithful because we are the providers and women accept us because they are prepared to give the illusion that they will have our offspring but if she finds an alpha she will have his DNA donation and use the beta as support. But men must not cheat because that doesnt allow the females the committment support to give the illustion that he is the only one and his children are his (women up until recently needed men around for at least 15 years to help support offspring that the women may have) thats why men cant cheat.

At last i can use the knowledge of pheromones to explain the imbalance and this time no one can disagree because these are instinctual urges that apparentlty to the majority of people that cant be ignored ie you want sex you have sex right because it FEELS RIGHT EMOTIONALLY
Emotions in women = ostrogen over testostrone.

NOW SOMEONE ARGUE WITH THIS THESIS
IM SURE SOMEONE WILL THEY ALWAYS DO OH WAIT THERE IS NO COUNTER ARGUMENT TO PHEROMONE DRIVEN BEHAVIOUR HA HA HA.
Note sacrasim folks im bored. And am ready to cause conterversy.

[CptKipling]

Watcher: lol my sentiments exactly.

Really ladies c\'mon, lets make this into a productive argument. Take a look at my questions and give me an honest answer.

[Watcher]

Like i said we are to much on track for any women to respond that is how women in general get away with it they act all confused not understanding etc etc. It is just to logical to act rationally remember women are bred to on a genetic basis if a really good guy is around switch off completley and [censored] him if possible its genetically advantaged and their whole response doesnt seem to have encoding in their brains to explain it. If they get a chance to ride an alpha shaft then the alpha shaft is what they will ride. Women cant ignore emotion it is what they run on even sex is linked to emotion directed by pheromone prompts from the opposite sex. My argunment (A MALE BY THE WAY) wins once and for all its good to have the answer finally. Now im calm and can deal with life not wondering why a female has cheated on me i can explain to her why she did it and THEN [censored] HER OFF FOR CHEATING ON ME WITH NO COMEBACKS WHATSOEVER i feel so damn good. ha ha ha ha

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OUTSTANDING!!! Very well put Watcher.

[CptKipling]

Since no female responce is forthcoming, i\'l try to answer it myself, and I\'m not going to appologise for any sexism, because I think most women are sexist anyway. Just take corriebright\'s post:

i think men have this over rated idea that once they get a woman then she must stay faithful (me thinks its a ego problem and that men once they have a woman just dont have the drive to find another in a hurry) something about needing to flat out kiss ass all over again to find another. Also its related to testorstrone problems and the need to maintain stability to raise children etc because unfaithfulness means that that stability is no longer there and unless its an arranged marriage where two people have an agreement to have children but are able to cheat outside the marriage or relationship the conflict of interest RARLEY resolves itself.

So men dont cheat because they are lazy? Right, ok then. Or is it because they might not feel the need to cheat if they are in a relationship that they enjoy, and if they dont enjoy it, they are most likely to bail out? Nah, that just me talking rubbish.

I have said before, a lot, once a woman gets the impression she desearves you, it almost always leads to a break up. Because from that thought comes the specualtion that she might be able to do better, even if this does not involve conscious thought.

In responce to \"I have to tell you - generally the reason we cheat is because we\'re no longer getting the quality of attention we got during the first phases of the relationship\", I can only asume that you are refering to a relationship where a guy you liked a lot a the start treated you like a princess from the get-go, or perhaps the opposite.

As has been said befor, not all women are like this, I just havn\'t met one that I isn\'t (actually i have, but she isnt my type personality wise and is taken /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif ), when I do I\'ll do my best to keep her. Not right now of course, too young for that at the moment!

[Watcher]

lol as they say women only trade up both sexes are lazy different motivations present always. Its hard to maintain syncronistiy. Mind mapping can help to discuss differences of opinion but it requires work on both side.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, I\'ll take you on. :-) But bear in mind I\'m only speaking for myself and my own experience and you know what opinions are like ...

I (drum roll please) have personally never cheated - I completely agree that if you\'re not happy, you should break things off - a lot of people don\'t have that much grit, though - lots of people, men and women, will keep what they\'ve got while trying out the new, and move from one relationship straight to the next with no alone time in between, because they\'re afraid not to be in a relationship. Doesn\'t do to be too hard on them...

I have girlfriends who cheat constantly and I think it\'s because of the myth of Prince Charming. I think we women (easy now, my sisters, just my own opinion) are conditioned to think that Prince Charming is gonna come riding up and sweep us away into \"Happy Ever After\" and if we could only find that one right guy, everything would be fine, and when our partners keep turning out to be human and fallible and not at all able to read our minds, the reaction is DAMMIT, he\'s NOT Prince Charming, but maybe this other guy is, so let\'s try him out.... Part of it\'s immaturity and unrealistic expectations.

When I HAVE found myself in a relationship/marriage and fantasizing about someone else, it was because ...the guy was hot and my body responded in spite of me (it does happen to us too, it\'s just that the results are not as visible)...and things between me and my husband of 8 years had come down to that dance in the dark of \"you do this to me, i do that to you, we come, we go to sleep, yawn...\" after awhile it gets to be automatic and the spark is out. I mean - it works - it\'s just not exciting much anymore.

Ok, I put it out there so I guess I have to address it - the attention I\'m referring to, principally and succinctly, is FOREPLAY. That\'s the real skinny. When I start to crave a change is when there\'s no more foreplay. Think of the bag of tricks you employ the first few times you have sex with someone. Do you still try as hard to impress with your skill set? Are you still looking for new moves to use on her, new ways to engage her interest?

I\'m speaking primarily of physical foreplay - but you can extend that into the other realms of being, too -- emotional, intellectual, stimulation of your imagination -- when it really IS \"just sex.\" Like he never calls just to whisper something nasty in your ear and turn you on, give you something to anticipate when you get home or next see him -- or, worse, you try the sexy phone call on him and get no response... Or if you buy a pretty pair of panties and he doesn\'t notice or play with me in them. Or he doesn\'t kiss my neck anymore in that spot that makes me swoon, or if he does, never for as long as i really crave it... When things get perfunctory. When he starts to take me for granted. Then other guys start looking good to me and my attention wanders. And if I were a cheater, at that point I would cheat. (I\'m a walker - I walk, instead.)

I\'m rambling.

Back to you. Bring it on. :-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

P.S.
CptKipling,
Is it possible that the failings we\'re talking about (lack of morality, integrity, logic, rationality, accountability) are human being failings and not really the property of one sex over another?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yo, Watcher, if it makes you feel better to pretend you\'re intellectually superior, go for it, but ... women cheat on men, men cheat on women, and the world goes \'round...just the way it is. Re Alpha shafts - yeah, we\'ll ride \'em if we get the chance - just like you\'ll \"do\" a \"10\" if you have half a chance - is there any difference?

[Watcher]

Nope just trying to get some conversation going on the forum i quite often take up an extreme point of view actually i couldnt care less i get action - if she cheats shes gone. If im in a relationship and not happy ill walk. Same thing both sexes do it its that simple human nature. No offense meant of taken.

[CptKipling]

(Bulks out chest, acompanied with gutteral grunt) Ready for ya!

Ok i like this woman! lol

It\'s about time people were honest and gave the time to think about their oppinions.

Ok, I accept the forplay thing, but i have never personally experienced that, as in, I cant remember cooling down the forplay. But then I havn\'t really had a long enough relationship to experience that.

I very much respect the fact that you have never cheated. Personally, I would never attempt to break up a relationship. I was recently in a position where I had to listen to a girl crying because she was dumped by her boyfriend because she cheated on him with my best mate. I said,\"Tuff, its your own fault. You\'ve already cheated on him nine times(!! and he knew!??), he deserves someone better, someone who actually has a shread of loyalty.\" Maybe a bit harsh, but I was drunk and she had been pissing me off all night.

I\'m not saying that there is anything wrong with seeing someone and thinking \"Wow! He/she is soo fit!\", its when the line is crossed to the point of actually doing something, or even keeping him/her around as a friend (term used loosely). If you see something which is that much better, then ok, leave him/her, but of course you cant guarantee keeping this other person (ok now I\'m rambling).

Ok yes i admit, those failings are general human failings, and I do consider myself to be a very moral person, and it gets to me when I see imorality. I have to stand by the logic thing though, you said it yourself, the whole Prince Charming quest. Also the self defeating attitude of \"oh-he-is-nice-to-me-so-he-must-value-me-highly(pop - mental jump)-so-i-must-be-able-to-do-better\". I think we would all prefer to be nice, and to make our women smile at every oportunity, but hey that cost too much anyway /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

But you still didn\'t answer my all my questions, please respond to these:

1) I dont doubt that some times it is because you are bored, but have you ever questionaed why you are bored? Is it because you no longer have to worry whether your man likes you? And is this in turn not a result of him showing his love for you too frequently (what I meant by over pampering)?

2)I have said before, a lot, once a woman gets the impression she desearves you, it almost always leads to a break up. Because from that thought comes the specualtion that she might be able to do better, even if this does not involve conscious thought. - do you agree with this?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, 1. Bored because it\'s the same all the time, things have fallen into a routine -- NOT because he shows he likes me too much (can\'t get enough of that!) but because he takes me for granted and doesn\'t make an effort anymore2. I don\'t really know what to say to this. The idea that because she got you, she can get someone better does not quite make sense to me. Maybe I\'m just not understanding you. There IS the phenomena of \"The White Knight Just Fell Off His Horse Into The Mud\" aka \"the crash heard \'round the world\" aka \"Beloved Just Said/Did Something Stupid And I Broke My Neck Doing A Double-Take,\" when you have a terrible crush, idolize the person beyond all reason, and realize he bounces checks, drinks too much, hits when he\'s angry...well, yeah, then you realize you could do better.*grin* But I don\'t think that\'s what you mean. Sorry my response is not on target. What do you mean, for example, when you say she \"gets the impression she deserves you\"?

[CptKipling]

Ok, thanks for the responce.

Its not so much the idea that she got you(me, the man, whatever), and so she thinks she can do better. More that if she thinks that he is doting after her, then she gets the impression that she is very wanted by men, and might be able to go one step up the ladder.

What I mean by \"gets the impression she deserves you\", is that if the man were to show too much love, and seem to care too much about her needs/loosing her, then she will get the impression that (sorry, cant think of a better term) she is higher up on the dating ladder, so to speak.

One last question, are you still with the guy that shows you he likes you a LOT? Also, and you dont by any means have to answer this, on a scale of 1-10, would you say you were 1-6 or 7-10? Basically, would you say that you were attractive?

All of your responces are valued, as will be any others.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well. I think if you dote on someone you will eventually lose them, because you are putting distance between yourself and the person you are doting on. Putting the woman on a pedestal is not good because it\'s true for most women that we want a man to be dominant (NOT domineering, there\'s a difference). If you hang all over her and do things you don\'t really want to do to please her, and agree with everything she says, etc. etc., it\'s nauseating, and yeah, she\'ll think she can do \"better.\" That\'s true of men/women and women/men. You don\'t want a woman who hangs all over you, right? Humans appreciate what presents a challenge.I\'m a 6-7. I\'ve got gorgeous luxuriant hair, beautiful eyes, great tits, and a nice ass. Funny face but it\'s attractive in its own way. Good sense of humor. Smart. Easy going. My ace in the hole, so to speak, is that I\'m very responsive and have very very good sexual skills. So once I get into play, I stay there - guys who do decide to leave me for a 9 or a 10 always come back repentant. (No brag, it\'s the plain truth.)The guy I\'m with is a flat out 10. He\'s so gorgeous the first time I saw him his beauty hit me in the solar plexus like a sledge hammer. Talk about deer in the headlights. He knows I think he\'s good looking but I don\'t gush about it. He\'s not excessive about his feelings for me. He compliments me but the compliments are spontaneous expressions of how he feels, not premeditated phrases contrived to get a reaction from me (either that or he\'s got serious game, that\'s fine too). He doesn\'t lean on me, call me all the time, worry excessively about what I think, fret over my approval or lack thereof - he\'s just himself. He does as he pleases, he\'s very independent, and I like that, because I know when he\'s with me it\'s because that\'s the only thing he wants in the world at that moment. If I left him, he\'d be sorry I\'m sure, but it wouldn\'t be the end of the world. The thing about giving strokes (compliments, presents, phone calls, sex, etc.) is timing. He knows what makes my head spin and he gives that to me when I need it but not before and not easily, do you see what I mean? I know if I ask him for something he will try to give it to me - but I take care not to ask him for much because I respect him too much to impose. He\'s the same way with me, so that when he does ask me for something, I\'ll do anything I can to give it to him, because he never wears me out with demands. We kind of tread lightly because we want it to last.I think it\'s a matter of balance. You\'re likely to be termed an [censored] if you\'re too indifferent, and a wimp if you\'re too eager to please. And for women, the same, right? We\'re bitches if we\'re too hard to get, and desperate or hos or sluts (worthless) if we try too hard to please.Your turn. (this is fun)

[CptKipling]

Ok this really is getting productive. I\'d just like to point out that I would reciprocate in any way (well almost /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif ).

ALL MEN SHOULD READ THE ABOVE POST TWICE. I\'m not joking, FullTiltRedhead hits my main argument right on the head. She obviously is really into him, not only because he is a 10, but because he doesn\'t show TOO much affection. This the classic mistake amoung men, not being a challenge, and acting far too easy and attainable. He is also obviously very attracted to her, and she has lots to offer him (RE your \"Ace in the hole\" lol), but he doesnt salivate over her, he still has his own life. You have kind of agreed with my argument, the idea that you can not expect a relationship to last if you make it obvious that she means so much to you that you are eager to please no matter what.

Phew, the Cpt can now rest. He has reached that mythical state in an argument when you find yourself without anything to argue.........................ok now I\'m bored, next contentious issue please! lol

[Watcher]

No when she has a man who treats her with respects pampers her just enough. Shes comfortable maybe not getting the amount of excitement she got at the beginning of the relationship (still getting a fair bit) but the relationship is settling down into a more of a pattern.

Then wham a guy comes along who is better looking maybe has more money can sweep her off her feet gives her a real rush. The current man is working his ass off to provide for her (she may work less or thinking of getting pregnant) and she goes off and sleeps with mr exciting.

Although i have a theory also that states that the aggressive boneheaded dickheads of the world need to be satisfied also and they are so rude and abnoxious that they scare the living wits out of nice girls but are \"bad boy / tall dark and strange guy\" that she falls for the novelty excitement value or the \"forgettfulness\" brain thing kicks in overrides everything and off she goes riding mr bad boy shaft man. The paraoihs of society whos sex drive mean that these guys cant sit still in a relationship they move from woman to woman

OK NOW I HAVE A THEROY THE GUYS PROGRAM ALL WOMEN TO THINK IN A CERTAIN WAY IE TALK ABOUT SEX RELATE SEX BACK TO THEM SHE HAS SEX WITH HIM. BUT WOMEN DONT GENERATE THEIR OWN THOUGHTS THEY RELY ON EMOTINS (PHEROMONAL THING) WHEREBY MEN INITATE SEX BECAUSE WE ARE THE LOGICAL ONES AND CAN PROGRAM ANY WOMAN WE ARE AROUND FOR LONG ENOUGH TO SLEEP WITH US IF WE ARE SMART ENOUGH TO PULL IT OFF.

Men are the shepards guiding the sheep and women are the SHEEP in life.

And another bit of advice i offer guys is to have youre own interests dont relate everything to sex (most guys do this subconsciously without thinking about it) find motivate not from sexual gain but for personal advancement and self improvement to make youreself feel better distance those urges to do something from sex sepearte them slightly) Learn NLP for heavens sake and then concentrate on youre own lifestyle women are so ready just to develop themselves in todays almost balanced world i think its time men stop fawning all over women and make ourselves better.

But if you want to be a wanker keep floating around going up and down emotionally with the users and allowing youreself to be used because you will be forever a \'beta male\' and be that wanker for all time.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

WOMEN DON\'T GENERATE THEIR OWN THOUGHTS?? Do you mind my asking - how old are you?

[Watcher]

What i mean is that they seem not to have original thoughts but quickly seem to repeat what men say to them. Its just some weird linguistic thing i have noticed if i say something like you look nice in that dress ill notice she refers to how nice she looks in her dress to her friends etc for the next week or so. Sorry having my NLP training that i have i notice a lot of things that go on. I dont mind you asking me how old i am 22 - having been on the forum for 3 years ive learnt a few things and will be a welcome challange for any girl or guy wanting to take me on he he.

Im sure all the NLP types on this board will agree with me it teaches motivation learning techniques, reading and modifying ones own body language to fit and gain the most out of any situations. Linguistics also both verbal and written. Its teaches one how to change ones own thoughts to achieve success in life through modeling human excellence (more by changing and controling what you think you change the \"what\" you think as the final outcome) It also teaches how to take up alternate views and how to figure out what people are thinking and why they are thinking that to get a better idea in dealing with people. It can also be extended to sales and \"controling\" others thoughts through trance words - association quite a nasty thing if used forms the basis of www.fastseduction.com (\"http://www.fastseduction.com\") and other pick up guides. Is useful for women to.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FullTilt
All I gotta say is it is GREAT to see honest female perspective laid out on the table here, which is an even bigger bonus when it becomes a volley of oppinions. By the way, this thread is getting very interesting...great points.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What I mean by \"gets the impression she deserves you\", is that if the man were to show too much love, and seem to care too much about her needs/loosing her, then she will get the impression that (sorry, cant think of a better term) she is higher up on the dating ladder, so to speak.
-CK

I think you have an excellent point here CK. I totally think this happened to me in my marraige (now disolved). I did everything humanly possible to please this woman. I read books, asked advise online...hell, I even saw a shrink. Nothing worked. She just kept treating me like I was the scum of the earth. After trying everything I could come up with to save my marraige, I threw in the towel and left her. The amazing thing is that after the third week of being gone...she started changing her tune. Too late in my mind...I was damaged beyond repair.

[EXIT63]

Man, She played you like a fiddle. I think the important thing is to learn from your experiences so you don\'t make the same mistakes.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

They say hind sight is 20/20 and foresight is f**king blind. Well, I\'m a classic example and I wish I knew then what I know now. Ce La Vie

[CptKipling]

Thanks CarnalCry.

I figured that out from an old relationship aswell, and from watching the behaviour of girls around me.

I think we do this because we end up placing far too much value on what she thinks of us, that what this one girl (ok slightly different in a marriage) thinks of you tells you how the rest of the women in the world will react to you.

The key is to give her attention yes, but be spontanious and mysterious, and dont pile it on too heavy. If you withdraw slightly, and look give the impression that you KNOW what she thinks of you isnt the be-all and end-all of your life, she WILL be more attracted to you because she thinks that she is (sorry, bad term again, oh well) privillaged(not so extreme as this) to have you.

[Watcher]

Hindsight is 20/20 blindness.

A wise man as they say learns froms the mistakes of others and can identify when it is happening to him. Classic advice worth using anytime. Is it sex or love - its both its temporary and good while it lasts then it ends and you have to refocus again. And say ce la vie to the past.

[Watcher]

Hindsight is 20/20 blindness.

A wise man as they say learns froms the mistakes of others and can identify when it is happening to him. Classic advice worth using anytime. Is it sex or love - its both its temporary and good while it lasts then it ends and you have to refocus again. And say ce la vie to the past.

www.ecorp.com.au (\"http://www.ecorp.com.au\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Why are you asking that here? Don\'t you know most of the guys on this board are or will be unfaithful to their \"lovers\"? This board is set up for people to discuss, among other things, how best to use human pheromones for their aphrodisiacical properties. I mean isn\'t it obvious what kind of response you will get from the guys on this board?

In response to your question, I wouldn\'t say that every guy will tell you to go out and try to make it with every girl that crosses your path, not at all. It depends the type of person that you talk to. You wouldn\'t get that type of response in the U.S. at least.