-RONE Alone?

[HB_88]

Does RONE have any effects all by itself, especially in the overdose range? I realize that it\'s a bit like asking a chef if parsley has any effect all by itself, but hey -- inquiring minds want to know. Has anyone been brave enough to wear only pure chem-kit grade RONE without any other pheromones? What were the effects? Although I know it\'s unlikely, maybe the stuff has a really unusual response curve, and might actually have some heretofore-unseen effect in huge quantities. Sure, it\'d smell bad, but consider how many strange combos that forum members have successfully covered using cologne.

Worth a try.

HB_88

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Interesting experiment... the only thing I know regarding -RONE is that it seems to work synergistically with the other two pheromones (-NONE & -NOL). Thus in turn supposedly increasing there effectiveness. Although, I would assume that it must have some type of reaction all on it\'s own. Maybe it needs to be applied in a large dose comparable to the amount we presently use with the other two mones before we can see any form of a typical phero response?

[xvs]

My experience is that any amount of -rone I add to any mix makes it stop working and elicits negative reactions from women

So I haven\'t dared to try it alone (stopped using it entirely!).

[BassMan]

When I first got the chem set items, I made up a 10% rone solution in EtOH and tried it solo at application levels typical of _none_ - 0.015 to 0.030 mg. I saw no effect at all. I never continued the experiment at higher levels.

[MaxiMog]

Then what does the -RONE in SOE actually do? Wouldn\'t it be better to go with pure -NOL instead of SOE?

[Whitehall]

There is apparently some research that a touch of \'rone increases the effectiveness of a mix with \'nol and/or \'none. Stone Labs mentions this too. However, what I\'ve read about the research protocol doesn\'t make it convincing.

[Watcher]

Well im still convinced it does something but probably at ranges of 1mg as james kohl has says and it works best with nol and none as a booster i did read a while back that 1 or 2 people had good results using rone only but nothing more came of it. It does have some effect but unsure of what. I say try it and let us know what happens if you already have the chem set rone. Couplins being used by guys is the next big thing im about to do (in small amounts the idea being that women will want to get close to us like they would another chick in a friend type of way added to the NPA/SOE mix or none alone it could be quite useful for getting them in close and then having the other stuff work as well.

[a.k.a.]

I’ve tried the Kit rone at 10% and at 25%, once each. At 10% I got a lot of respect and a few girls that seemed to take a passing interest in me. At 25% it seemed like everybody was keeping an eye on me to make sure I didn’t do anything funny. Cashiers and clerks were TOO friendly and helpful (like “maybe if I do what he wants he’ll hurry up and get out of here\".) Not quite as bad as a None overdose, but disconcerting just the same.

I use the Phero Kit a lot, and I have to agree that the right touch of Rone enhances the effectiveness of any mix. On the other hand, I hate the smell and don’t care for the buzz. So I’ve come up with several perfectly good mixes that don’t require the stuff.

[Nutt]

humm, sounds like that could be amplifying exsisting pheros, although its very difficult to tell with something that is claimed to be a simple amplifier

[rjm]

Although I don\'t have -rone alone, if it\'s an amplifier, I would think it\'s to maximize the effect of the others at a cost savings. -none is supposed to be the most expensive, so, yeah, I can see where it would be useful.

[FerroMone]

Well they say that Androsterone is the \"sex appeal\" pheromone aside from the amplifier thing. They say that it increases your sex appeal, however this is very hard to verify. The only way to verify this is to wear -RONE for a week in a room full of 100 women then give them survey forms that asks them to rate your sex appeal :-)

[DrSmellThis]

To me -rone is a cedar note.

From my experience with other pheromones in perfuming I am speculating that that in addition to enhancing the other pheromones -rone might be useful for men to attract men.

[FerroMone]

Yikes, i don\'t like to attract men. I want WOMEN.

[HB_88]

I agree -- redheaded women, preferably. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

HB_88

[MaxiMog]

People here have some kind of redheads obsession.
It\'s all over the forum?

[jvkohl]

Some details on -rone and rationale for using it will be available in about 1 month; sorry for the delay. For now, you should know that I experimented with it exclusively from 1993 until early this year. The responses I got during many different settings (not wearing it, but actually asking people--both men and women to smell it) were quite predictable. For example, the negative response from pregnant women, which is exactly what I would expect. Also, men typically rated it as negative, reporting a urinous rather than pleasantly clean musky odor. To men, androsterone should convey a territorial/dominance type signal.

[DrSmellThis]

With all due respect to your time and projects, Mr. Kohl, how about a quick opine on what it does to women who aren\'t preggers? Folks here respect your vast knowledge of pheromones, and would appreciate your opinion very much.

Incidentally, I like the smell. I hope that doesn\'t mean I\'m not a real man /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif .

[xvs]

So basically, you get a similar response (in terms of positive and negative reactions) from -rone as you do from -none?

If so, this is my experience, and since a good percentage of men don\'t benefit from -none, a similar percentage won\'t benefit from -rone.

Comments?

[jvkohl]

What any human pheromone does to any other person will be influenced by their past associations with the active ingredient, and even ingredients that have similar odor properties. I think that\'s why we see some good responses from -none, -nol, and -rone. Still, since the -none odor has many negative associations in the research reports, it made more sense to me to go with -nol and -rone. Men are almost as likely to enjoy the scent that carries the -nol and -none, but -none is also likely to be ever so slightly aversive to some men--just as with pregnant women, or those who are on their period. I think it\'s impossible to develop a pheromone enhanced fragrance that will appeal to everyone all the time--and this is exactly what the research indicates; it can\'t be done. As I indicated previously, more details will follow in a month or so, about the -rone and why I chose it (as first did Phil Stone) for use in a product. Simply put, there are several reasons why -rone should work better than other additives. One reason is because -rone is most likely to have the most positive effect on levels of luteinizing hormone in women. In this regard, one would have to read and understand most of my psychoneuroendocrine (i.e.,. heavy neuroscience) papers. Hate to keep everyone in suspense, but don\'t want to let the mass media cat out of the bag too soon. Also, I want to wait until at least one recent publication is available on line, so the heavyweight scientific types can add their comments to any discussion. Thanks for your patience!

Did an interview for an Australian radio show earlier this evening and will post info on a URL where you can go to listen to the program when it becomes available.

[FerroMone]

Is there supposed to be a Methol/Camphor smell for the ANDROSTERONE ?

I am asking this coz i have two bottles of dissolved pheros
one is -NOL and the other is -RONE just like the chem set. The only problem is that there is a labeling problem and i do not know which one is which. The only thing i know is that one bottle smells like Camphor/Menthol while the other one has no smell. W/c one do you think is the ANDROSTERONE?

[DrSmellThis]

Several points in response to JK\'s informative post:

We don\'t need a pheromone that works with everyone all the time.

We rather need one that works with the one\'s that are \"for real.\" The ability to weed out teases, attention ho\'s, nuns, and \"psycho\'s with baggage\", for example, would be a real benefit of any pheromone mix.

My friend Jason has a killer principle: \"Know what you can have, and have it!\" I have adopted it with success. It\'s a powerful idea. An ideal pheromone mix would make it easy to have the ones you can have, and remove the distractions of those you can not.

Also, arousal is often a combination of positive and negative reactions or emotions, psychologically speaking. I won\'t expand further here, as I have in other posts. To feel only positive emotions is too vanilla/ mayonnaise/wonder bread/boring for most women. Occasional emotional conflict is sexier than constant smooth sailing.

And the anecdotal data in this forum consistently suggests, whether with rookies or veterans of pheromoning, that SOE is a wonderful and important product, though it has a downside of fewer overtly sexual hits, poor \"closing,\" or leading the horse to water without making it drink (Wiiiilburrrr!) The -none products tend to help folk cross the finish line. Now obviously, this is only anecdotal data. But it\'s darn important anecdotal data.

Nonetheless, the kind of research needed is double blind, quasi experimental research, wherein folks are randomly assigned to various phero combination and concentration groups with placebo control groups as well; and the dependent variable is, say (time spent boinking) x (number of people boinked).

Who ultimately cares if a pheromone causes someone\'s nose to wrinkle, if they end up in the hay with you, or married to you?!

In French perfumery theory, you always want to include an anaphrodisiac in every aphrodisiac blend. This makes the whole thing work better. Paradox is everywhere you look in human sexuality.

I do so far think -none adds these types of \"negative attraction\" to good effect, though not only negative reactions.

Lastly, you have to risk something to get something in the pheromone world. My experience is that the one who likes you and who really wants to \"do you\" will gladly snort the smelly -none from your pits. I certainly am into the equivalent, with women I\'m really into.

Part of being a challenge is to give the woman the opportunity to discover that your stink isn\'t so bad after, all, in fact -- she can\'t seem to help being touched by this discovery to the extent that she jumps you. -none in the right quantities with the right attitude smells wonderful. She has to earn the priviledge of enjoying your manly musk, by opening herself to you. Then all of a sudden it smells great.

[a.k.a.]

Feromone,
Yes. There\'s a sort of mothballish smell to RONE. NOL seems to have a light, body musk sort of smell that\'s more pronounced once you put it on your skin. (RONE takes on some heavy woodsy notes after applied to the skin.)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"What any human pheromone does to any other person will be influenced by their past associations with the active ingredient, and even ingredients that have similar odor properties. I think that\'s why we see some good responses from -none, -nol, and -rone. Still, since the -none odor has many negative associations in the research reports, it made more sense to me to go with -nol and -rone. Men are almost as likely to enjoy the scent that carries the -nol and -none, but -none is also likely to be ever so slightly aversive to some men--just as with pregnant women, or those who are on their period. I think it\'s impossible to develop a pheromone enhanced fragrance that will appeal to everyone all the time--and this is exactly what the research indicates; it can\'t be done. As I indicated previously, more details will follow in a month or so, about the -rone and why I chose it (as first did Phil Stone) for use in a product. Simply put, there are several reasons why -rone should work better than other additives. One reason is because -rone is most likely to have the most positive effect on levels of luteinizing hormone in women. In this regard, one would have to read and understand most of my psychoneuroendocrine (i.e.,. heavy neuroscience) papers. Hate to keep everyone in suspense, but don\'t want to let the mass media cat out of the bag too soon. Also, ...\"

HM... interesting. Just a quick question: If you could, could you explain why exactly -nol or -rone has a \"positive effect\" on the luteinizing hormone in women? Is it due to association? (a yes/no response may be sufficient.)

thanks,
\"patchy\"

[upsidedown]

I\'ll ask an even more basic question....but what is a \"luteinizing hormone\" and of what significance is it in the overall scheme of things?

[MaxiMog]

In both sexes, LH (luteinizing hormones) stimulates secretion of sex steroids from the gonads. In the testes, LH binds to receptors on Leydig cells, stimulating synthesis and secretion of testosterone. Theca cells in the ovary respond to LH stimulation by secretion of estrogens.
In females, ovulation of mature follicles on the ovary is induced by a large burst of LH secretion known as the preovulatory LH surge. Residual cells within ovulated follicles proliferate to form corpora lutea, which secrete the steroid hormones progesterone and estradiol. Progesterone is necessary for maintenance of pregnancy, and, in most mammals, LH is required for continued development and function of corpora lutea. The name luteinizing hormone derives from this effect of inducing luteinization of ovarian follicles.
That\'s about it...

[jvkohl]

Hey Maxi, that\'s great! It\'s nice to see another Forum member who has a biology background, and who can attempt to bring this stuff down to earth. The LH response to pheromones from the opposite sex has been my
focus since my first scientific presentation in 1992. For those who really want the scientific details on this--
extremely technical; you\'ve been warned--see page 2 of my website (\"http://\")

I\'ve had a lot of difficulty making sense of the biology with the masses. Not because I\'m an intellectual snob, but because I\'ve studied this stuff for so many years that the jargon has crept in, and I tend to write and speak more for other biologists. If not for co-author Francoeur, the book: Scent of Eros, would not have been readable--at least for most people. But, during the past few years, I\'ve participated in some informal discussions, and have some ideas on how to better approach people who lack the biology/neuroscience background. Hopefully, I\'ll be able to get another book out in the next couple years; one that puts the neuroscience to practical use in everyday relationships. That\'s definitely the approach I\'ve taken in the Neuroendocrinology Letters article, and in the forthcoming re-release of my book (in paperback with an epilogue). Meanwhile, another article explaining male homosexuality via the pheromone-hormone connection appears in the Across Species Comparisons in Psychopathology bulletin (June 2002). This should be available on-line soon, and part II of the article will be published in October. It remains quite likely, nonetheless, that most Forum members will become very bored if I stray into my psychoneuroendocrinologist mode. So, those of you who have a good biology background--please do your best to help answer questions as they come up. Thanks!

[FerroMone]

so i would assume that the one with the camphort smell is the -RONE right ? I also observed that when i put it in my skin the Camphor smell gets stronger.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JVK: OK, but you better publish that stuff about -rone quicklike, like w/i the next month like you said you would. You aren\'t fooling me with your hi-fi scientific mumbo jumbo. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[MaxiMog]

LOL. Actually, James, this is part of what I\'ve learned in Biology Class last year. It\'s still pretty fresh in my memory. I AM, though, exrtremely interested in Biology. Next year, I\'ll be going to university, and I aim at becoming a Bio-engineer. (not sure about specialization at this time yet: either genetics, environment, or chemistry).
I will try to answer biology questions as they come up, if I know the answer. Of course, on this board, you\'re the master when it comes to biology, so be prepared to make some corrections to my writings.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

oops. sorry. I mean \"ok, well, I guess we will all be looking forward to the release of your \'findings\' within the month.\"
No offense, I hope. I Had a couple of drinks in me.

[FerroMone]

well, that\'s good.

[Whitehall]

Excellent discussion, Dr. SmellThis, you one smart guy!

I\'ve posted several times that you have to risk adverse reactions from people you\'re not interested in to achieve success with the ones are targeting (the 1-in-7 principle). As some marketing guru said \"I may not know the path to success but I know the road to failure is trying to please everyone.\"

[**DONOTDELETE**]

jkohl-
have you come public with your reasons for adding -rone to SoE as of yet? If so I have a couple questions. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[jvkohl]

Here\'s an exerpt from the epilogue in the newly released edition of The Scent of Eros.

When attempting to find a true human pheromone, it is best to take into account the differences between men and women; and, in this case between boys and girls. Pheromone production in boys and girls begins with maturation of the adrenal glands, slightly before the onset of puberty. Adrenal gland maturation also is linked to the early stages of visible axillary and pubic hair, which help to distribute pheromones. Once the adrenal glands are mature, there also is a sex difference in the productions of the two primary metabolites of DHEA: androsterone (A) and etiocholanolone (E).
Without burdening the reader with the technical details of steroid hormone biochemistry, we need to note that A/E ratios are different in men and women. For this reason A may signal mascu-linity, and either lesser concentrations of A, or greater concentrations of E, may signal femininity.
Accordingly, the A/E ratio may reflect the degree of mascu-linity or femininity. More A probably means a higher A/E ratio and more masculine pheromone production. Less A probably means more feminine pheromone production. The A/E ratio also changes in response to fight or flight situations, because the stress hormone: cortisol, suppresses DHEA production. Stressful situations could lead to a more feminine A/E ratio in men due to DHEA suppression. Dominant males who control their environment are less likely to ex-perience stress than subordinate males who may even be stressed by the presence of other males. Dominant males are also more likely to have higher A/E ratios that could pheromonally signal their domi-nance.
Homosexual males are reported to have A/E ratios charac-teristic of females. In one experiment, a scientist who measured A/E ratios in urine samples was able to predict with 100 percent accuracy whether or not the man who submitted the specimen was homosex-ual. This research is particularly interesting because in 1992, just prior to Kohl\'s first scientific presentation on this topic, Dr. William G. Turner, an octogenarian psychiatrist, turned geneticist, contacted Kohl. Turner wrote that during the 1950\'s, several aging, gay, male patients responded to his request for information on how they found other gay males. He repeatedly was told: \"we smell each other.\" During the 1950\'s a man who made a mistake about another man\'s sexual orientation would probably have been lucky if he escaped with a beating. Perhaps the atypical A/E ratio, manifest in chemical cues, helped avoid such problems.
Is something like this happening in homosexual rams? Back in 1992, before Kohl\'s first presentation to the Society for the Scien-tific Study of Sexuality, Dr. Anne Perkins was listening to Kohl ex-plain his model to Dr. F. Robert Brush. However, she didn\'t listen for very long. She interrupted and said, quite simply: \"That\'s exactly what\'s happening in my sheep.\" Her homosexual rams would ap-proach and sniff the genitals of other males, and exhibit a hormone response characteristic of other rams when they sniffed the genitals of an estrus ewe.
Schizophrenics have unusual DHEA levels when compared to non-schizophrenics. They also produce an odor that has been said to be characteristic of schizophrenia. This odor could be related to their level of DHEA and subsequently their A/E ratio. DHEA levels also are linked to age-related sexual problems. Do the metabolites of DHEA become pheromonal signals? If so, it may take a few more years of research to prove. It will also take a few more years of re-search to prove that human pheromones are the primary driving force behind all of human sexual behavior. Meanwhile, Kohl has be-gun marketing of a product containing androsterone that seems to enhance masculine appeal.

[Watcher]

That would explain the results where when wearing rone around women they act submissive (the dominant male thing and the role of Arone in being the dominant male) well the results speak for themselves. One thing im interested in is the nol and rone link rone causes women to be submissive and nol causes women to get a feelgood feeling it matches well and then anone during the actual sexual act to get women to orgasam. Ok this is sounding about right anyone else want to expand this also whoever had the idea of layering rone as an external applicaiton - submissive nol as a mood lifter and foreplay then none to get the sex thing going.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My parents came to visit me once from another state, had never been to the apartment I was living in, and got the building number wrong. I lived 6 floors up, the buildings were walkups, so you opened the door to a staircase. My mother ran around the place and tried several buildings before turning to my dad after opening the door of one and saying, \"This is it! I know she\'s here! I can smell her!\" I swear to god I don\'t stink.
The guy I work for now, when he was new to our hall, used to come around the corner and my head would snap right up before I could see him, I knew he was coming, and I\'d watch him walk in front of me to my then-boss\'s office, they\'d talk a minute, he would walk back. Just his being around made me feel more comfortable. There was an office get together and I took advantage of the informality of the situation to go up and speak to him, and come to find out administration was moving him to another floor because he was sharing a secretary with a partner on an upper floor and it was thought he\'d get better support if he were nearer to her. I blurted out, \"Don\'t go! I like you here! I\'ll be your secretary.\" He skipped a beat and then said \"Really? Ok.\" and I moved on it that second, called admin, claimed him. I already had two attorneys and one of them had a fit and quit me over it because he felt like his work wouldn\'t get done. We had it out and I got reprimanded, but I got to keep my new attorney. Come to find out, his family came to Virginia in the 1700\'s as did mine, we have ancestors from the same places. I feel sure we\'re related, however distantly. He instantly felt like he was mine - not sexually - something in the blood, he felt like kin. I\'ve never had a more compatible working relationship in my life.
This is maybe slim evidence but I think you can tell your family from their smell.

[jvkohl]

Anecdotal evidence always is slim evidence. Your anecdotes, however, are supported by several different studies showing that we retain the ability to sniff out genetic differences at the locus of genes that is responsible for tissue type. From an evolutionary psych perspective, it is unlikely that we retained this ability but fail to use it. Makes me wonder how you tune in to pheromones involved in mate choice--a more personal approach. Haven\'t had time to read all your posts, but those that I\'ve read strongly suggest you could enter this field as a researcher and do quite well. Perhaps when you tire of the law....Wish I could afford to have someone like you as a research assistant.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'d do it for free. Tell me how I can assist, I\'d be glad to.It\'s a real relief for me to know it\'s not all in my head. I have always been able to tell within nearly seconds what the relationship will be with anyone I meet. I know when I meet a guy if he will be my lover or not. I\'ve chalked it up to intuition, which runs high in both sides of my family - I\'m a Myers-Briggs type INFJ, score high on every axis - it is said that if precognition/extra-sensory phenomena exist, the INFJ will be the one most likely to experience them. But of course we don\'t know what that \"sixth sense\" is. And it really occurs to me in some cases it could be smell. Another example. I once had a job as a dispatcher for security guards, so these were very macho type guys, all, big macho facades, but good decent guys actually, and I got along really well with all of them but one. He made my blood run cold from the first time I ever interacted with him, instinct said get away right now and I don\'t analyze when my gut speaks, I just do it. I went into the lounge one day to get a Coke, and a couple of the administrators were in there looking glum and I said what\'s wrong and they said they\'d had to fire So-and-So, there had been an incident, and I said well Thank God for that - I had my back to them, getting a Coke out of the machine - when I turned around, their faces looked shocked and one said why, what did he do to you? I said nothing, he just really creeps me out. Startled glances at each other. I thought, whatever, I have to get back to my desk, and didn\'t think too much about it. Turns out he raped Jenny, the only female guard on the staff, and hurt her pretty bad.

[HB_88]

It can\'t be a complete coincidence that women are more intuitive than men and that women also pay more attention to smell than we do...

HB_88

[**DONOTDELETE**]

theres nothing worst than a long thread, as my computer monitor is really small, thus it hurts my eyes to read them!! oh well, just thought id moan /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[jvkohl]

FTRH,
I sent you a private message. For others, what I hope to do is gain perspective from a T-Shirt study. The variable must remain unknown to FTRH. If she agrees, I\'ll let everyone know the results.

[camusflage]

Hmmm.. I\'d say that an ENFP would be the most likely to experience the extra/sub sensory stuff. Someone who\'s an iNtuitive Feeler, along with being turned outward and living in the moment. Most ENFP\'s I know are very compassionate and empathic, something which pheromones almost certainly figure into.

It\'s not just you NF\'s that can listen to your intuition.. I\'m an INTJ (100/44/89/11), but have an almost uncanny knack for \"sniffing\" people out. Whether it\'s from watching subtle cues or from actually smelling them, I\'m not certain. Like you, my intuition runs fairly strong, but we differ in that I have a hard time reconciling it with my high T.

[CptKipling]

Whats an ENFP and a INTJ?

[Irish]

***If you could, could you explain why exactly -nol or -rone has a \"positive effect\" on the luteinizing hormone in women? Is it due to association? (a yes/no response may be sufficient.) ***

I\'m not qualified to answer this, but it\'s a good question. There\'s a recent Japanese study (I\'ll dig it up if you like) where they found -nol affected the timing of the pulsed release of sex hormones in women when they were exposed to it. The researchers went on to implicate -nol as one of the secretions involved in the menstrual synchronization phenomena.

Here\'s why I find that interesting: it makes -nol look like a legitimate phero of some sort, cause it actually influences the hormone activity in another human exposed to it. There\'s lots of chemicals in our sweat, saliva, urine, etc - I\'m not convinced they are a phero unless they have some kind of demonstrable effect on a person exposed to them. Effects on the the hormone systems are strong evidence for me, since hormonal levels have a big impact on sexual desire.

I\'d like to see similar evidence for -rone, or understand what I\'m missing here. I don\'t think it\'s predominant in sweat, so I\'d like to know how in nature -rone works as a phero (urine release??? Oh boy...). Or, short of that, just show me clearly that -rone has hormonal or other effects on exposed humans, and I\'ll accept it as a happenstance that it is active...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

ENFP = Extraverted iNtuitive Feeling Perceiving
INTJ = Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Judging

They are personality types. Check www.dadamo.com/personality/ei.htm (\"http://www.typelogic.com>www.typelogic.com</a>\") for more info.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Of course it\'s true that N\'s, since they have iNtuition as a primary process, tend to be um...more intuitive than other types, whether they\'re Introverts or Extroverts. But what I said about INFJ being the most likely of the types to have extra-sensory perception was straight from the literature, not a matter of opinion.

www.keirsey.com (\"http://www.keirsey.com\")
If you want to find out what you are, click down about three or four lines to where it says ... Sorter and take the test.

[CptKipling]

I dont think I\'m either of those.

[camusflage]

Maybe I\'m mistaken, but didn\'t Keirsey/Bates deal with only the temperaments, or NF, NT, SP, SJ? Where was this about the ESP/INFj?

FYI to others.. A decent (online) test is at http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm. (\"http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm.\") There\'s also a lot of useful information, along with an interesting inter-type relationship analysis, at http://www.socionics.com/. (\"http://www.socionics.com/.\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

From \"Please Understand Me,\" Keirsey-Bates: \"What is known as ESP is likely found in INFJ more than in any other types, although other types are capable of such phenomena....It is an INFJ who is more likely to have visions of human events, past, present, or future ... exceptionally strong empathic abilties ...INFJ\'s can intuit good and evil in others although they seldom can tell how they came to know. Subsequent events tend to bear them out, however. ... Just as an ENTJ cannot not lead, so must an INFJ intuit: this capability extends to people, things, and often events, taking the form of visions, episodes of foreknowledge, premonitions, auditory and visual images of things to come. INFJ\'s can have uncanny communications with individuals at a distance.\"

[marv14yag]

I did not know that you were interested in that topic...I am an INFJ, and I am empathic, telepathic, I have remote viewed, done telekinesis, and clairvoyance, most comes at random though, I can make psi balls, and readily levitate my hand whenever I want...I\'m not joking if you think I am...I just don\'t say much about it becuase, will 1. Many people don\'t care. And 2. Becuase, they think I\'m a FREAK... I did predict 9/11...But, I didn\'t understand it at the time...Becuase, I just kept seeing 9:11 on the clocks all the time, and I was like, huh, wonder what it means... And I have moved a bucket before, about...4 or 5 inches..I was in a rush, and it just happened, bent a spoon, uh...Telepathy, do that a lot with people, empathy, yeah, got that...No big deal...Go to psipog.com, which is psychic students in pursuit of guidance.
I think the reason why I get it is because also, I don\'t have any preconcievedness of time, I mean, sometiems, I can\'t tell how long it\'s been from one thing to another, go from one activity to another without finishing, all that stuff, like I\'m caught in the middle, and time doesn\'t really matter, and which, I have a 7 page lentation-time, theory, if you would like to read it, along with many other intresting theories (some of which I have already said along the lines of men and women\'s human nature, etc... Has proved itself along the lines of HISTORY FOREVER, nothing has changed....I believe they have created a new page somewhere else for that site on another server, and there\'s another one, might be ont he same opening page, which, has 55 pages I think it is...Of Russian and CIA documents of the topic of psi, which, by the russians is called bioplasma, and is generated from the electronic impules int he brain (the spatial side, WHICH explains why the certain personality type has the abilities) and is controlled through bioplasmic feedback, I would like to get into it more detailed, but I have a limitation of time....Got to get on TOMORROW...

Bart

[marv14yag]

...I did not know that you were interested in that topic...I am an INFJ, and I am empathic, telepathic, I have remote viewed, done telekinesis, and clairvoyance, most comes at random though, I can make psi balls, and readily levitate my hand whenever I want...I\'m not joking if you think I am...I just don\'t say much about it becuase, will 1. Many people don\'t care. And 2. Becuase, they think I\'m a FREAK... I did predict 9/11...But, I didn\'t understand it at the time...Becuase, I just kept seeing 9:11 on the clocks all the time, and I was like, huh, wonder what it means... And I have moved a bucket before, about...4 or 5 inches..I was in a rush, and it just happened, bent a spoon, uh...Telepathy, do that a lot with people, empathy, yeah, got that...No big deal...Go to psipog.com, which is psychic students in pursuit of guidance.
I think the reason why I get it is because also, I don\'t have any preconcievedness of time, I mean, sometiems, I can\'t tell how long it\'s been from one thing to another, go from one activity to another without finishing, all that stuff, like I\'m caught in the middle, and time doesn\'t really matter, and which, I have a 7 page lentation-time, theory, if you would like to read it, along with many other intresting theories (some of which I have already said along the lines of men and women\'s human nature, etc... Has proved itself along the lines of HISTORY FOREVER, nothing has changed....I believe they have created a new page somewhere else for that site on another server, and there\'s another one, might be ont he same opening page, which, has 55 pages I think it is...Of Russian and CIA documents of the topic of psi, which, by the russians is called bioplasma, and is generated from the electronic impules int he brain (the spatial side, WHICH explains why the certain personality type has the abilities) and is controlled through bioplasmic feedback, I would like to get into it more detailed, but I have a limitation of time....Got to get on TOMORROW...

Bart

[Watcher]

Dont get me started on my telepathic abilities and UFO encounters please ill blow youre mind lol. Seriously though i will create chaos when im pissed off. I wonder if there is an ESP pheromone that some of us with ESP create and allows us to ehnace our abilites. Ok if i could get an ESP pheromone i could boost my telekentic abilities five fold.

MMM very interesting i could make lots of money.

http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/ (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/\") - please sign the petition need 10000 signatures. Please help

[marv14yag]

I think you are just saying/believing that, to feel important, but, I don\'t believe you really care about the ability. First of all, there is a difference between esp and telepathy...And you more than likely have NO idea how it\'s done, 2nd, it has NOTHING to do with PHEROMONES...And 3rd, Aliens, ok, lol, I\'m an open minded person, but, the only UFO\'s you are seeing, is secret governement space craft that they governent would NOT like you to know about! It\'s not ALIENS! lol, If there were aliens, you know, it\'s really dumb, if there were aliens coming here, oh god...lol...And even, to BELIEVE that, I think you believe in God, I can TELL...Yes, lol...You know how religious and superstitious I am? What\'s that? No, I\'m 0% 0...I\'m spirtitual, but not religious..There\'s no GOD that watches over us, and there\'s no ALIENS that visit us...Could there be aliens? Of COURSE...1 in every million planets have the ability to support life as hour own. Now, they may not be fully devoloped humanoids yet, however, or, they could be even more developed than ourselves, however, if you look back to history, human nature is SO apparent, yet, without it, we would have no REASON to live...Which, I don\'t see the point in it really, I just...Go ahead for WHATEVER reason...

Have you practiced these abilities? NO? Have you seeked out information? What? NO? I\'m not saying you haven\'t done anything, what I AMMM saying, is that, you think you\'re special because of this? And, why///you have not...Learned about what they REALLY are, you\'re just like..Yeah, I do that...telepath...ESP thing...Whatever that is...Yep.. That PISSES me off...

Not to mention, you think that\'s ADVANCED? lol...I have friends online that are able to move things as big as chairs at WILL...Levitated a knife once..Eh, kept dropping though...Do I think they are lying, no, because they don\'t do it to feel \"special\" or get \"attention\"...

And also, what would be the use for these abilities? They will NEVER be as good as using physical force, and, after you die..Uh, you\'re DEAD pal, lol...That is why they became dorment after about cave men..Used them instinctively...People fear the unknown, and so, there you go. But, really, HOW much could it POSSIBLY help you? Given the fact that, even the ones I talk of, need inTENSE concentration, and or/emotions (like myself)...It\'s called a gun...shoot you, bang, you\'s dead...lol...No...I\'m going to pick such and such up with my mind, and/or, try to see WHAT they are thinking...

I\'m SICK AND TIRED of all this DRAMATISISM...Countrys fighting, they don\'t even know what...The middle east, fighting over \"holy land\"...Once they get this land, what will it do? NOTHING, that\'s WHAT!...People, trying to get RICHER than they ALREADY are...People living off wealfare, people doing drive bys..Noone can just chill out, they want a PURPOSE to live... I know EXACTLY what you are going to say in response to every one of these, but, you know what, lol...I KNOW you\'re going to argue with me, and that is only because you can\'t kill your EGO! lol...No god? Yes there is! There has to be! lol...What, no aliens...! Dude, life ain\'t no da** roller coastuh...

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Marv14yag,

INFJ is the most vulnerable of the types to introjection and upheaval of its own archetypes, which means we don\'t have good psychic barriers, and too much conflict/negativity can make us physically ill. It\'s essential for an INFJ to shut completely down from time to time to rest and recharge, and I mean total silence. If you can find a place with isolation tanks, I highly recommend them for at least an hour a week. If not, put in earplugs, turn the phones off, turn all electrical transmittal appliances off, and zone until you find your center. You need to be careful in your choice of friends and make firm decisions about who gets to be in your world and who doesn\'t. Limit unessential input as much as you can. For example, I don\'t watch the news, I limit my tv viewing, and I hardly listen to radio. The noise and chatter drives me completely nuts and causes me to rant. I have friends who will tell me if something is going on in the world that needs my attention, like my mother called me from Cape Cod to tell me on 9/11 that I wasn\'t going to be able to go to work that day - the Pentagon is right down the street from me. My building shook when the plane hit but I thought it was an explosion in the parking lot. Anyway. You\'re all over the place. I see now why you\'re in such an uproar. There\'s a lot ugly going on in the world and it\'s extremely upsetting. Try to collect yourself and settle down so you can think clearly. If you have \"psychic powers,\" they are a high gift and you need to treat them with respect and use them only for good, but I think you know that. The thing is, you can\'t be a pure channel when there\'s so much static and interference. Learn to put it down and walk away. You have higher beings you can commune with if you\'ll come up out of this plane, and many things to learn.

Much love,

Renee

[DrSmellThis]

Yes FTRH,
I\'m a psychologist, and had some training at a psychic institute several years ago.

This is obviously spritual rather than scientific information, but in my experience people who channel, open their 7th chakras too much to psychic knowledge, or who get a feeling a power from psychic abilities can be in for trouble. They really, really have to be dedicated to learning techniques for controlling their energy. Or else they will be inviting all kinds of random energies in from everywhere, some of which is not meant for their bodies. One time I had a client who devoloped psychotic symptoms this way. It can also become a fetish, or even worse, an addiction.

Basically, our bodies and minds function best with their own energy running through them -- when we channel ourselves -- our higher selves, our lower selves, it does not matter. Channel the God within yourself.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, DocPeople generally think of psychic abilities as something that have to be searched out in one\'s self and brought forward. Some folks are born with it already flipped on and it\'s a matter of learning how to shut it down and filter appropriately. INFJ\'s are often in the latter category.

[DrSmellThis]

Where\'d you get that idea, my dear Full? If psychic abilities exist, they are a capability we\'re born with. That doesn\'t mean you can\'t mature and develop these skills.

There are dangers in this wild psychic world. We can learn to manage them. I have experienced this countless times.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

See up a couple of pages where Camusflage asked for a site re INFJ being the type most likely to exhibit esp abilities - I wrote out a good bit of the type description from Keirsey-Bates. INFJ\'s are weird by definition since we\'re only 2 percent of the population. We seem to be born with all the antennas at full function.

[camusflage]

INFjs may be weird, but INTjs take the cake for weirdness. We are wildly different from anyone else. It\'s quite difficult to even try to begin to relate to others how our minds work. We\'re also widely acknowledged as being the rarest group, with less than 1% of the population.

Of course, I have some fairly strong INTp leanings, with my J being my weakest axis. They\'re also fairly rare, at around 1%.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Camusflage: Ok, you win. You\'re weirder than I am. *grin*Doc - I defer to your greater training and experience and have no differences with what you said to our Bart. I just wanted to emphasize that it\'s likely that he was born with psychic awareness streaming in that he was aware of and could use to some extent without having to be taught to bring it out. I agree that it\'s inherent in us all, but many (most?) people have to really work to get to it. For some, it\'s THERE, a more salient quality in their life experience than almost anything else. What I put out is from my understanding of Please Understand Me - that\'s where I got it - did you read the type description? Happens I was extremely relieved to find Myers-Briggs and INFJ type description. It was very helpful to me to have my experience of the world verified, and that type description is the only one from any test that ever was of any comfort to me personally, so I like it even though it\'s become hackneyed from overuse and misapplication. I don\'t have a Ph.D. in psych, but I do have a B.S. in Secondary Education with way more psych credits than I needed, and I continue to read and study. I\'m not just making stuff up. Perhaps you\'re not a Jungian?

[marv14yag]

See, I have tried mediation, but, it just DOESN\'T work, I will lay there for hours and hours and hours, and my mind won\'t SHUT THE F*CK UP! I don\'t think laying there MORE will help MORE. What I have found to work though, is, I get home, and I get a soda, go out on the backporch, and just sip my soda, and just chill out out for an hour or two, or, take a long bath, etc.

And, when you say practice. Many people believe GUESSING is practicing...No, it\'s not. And, still, until now even, I don\'t know HOW you practice FOR certain abilities. What I do, is just make psi balls, to strengthen the brain in that area, andt he abilities come on their OWN...But, as for, SPECIFICALLY training in that, I don\'t think you can.

If you would like me to show you how to do a psi ball, or anything like that, IM me at marv14yag@aol.com (\"marv14yag@aol.com\") and, I think the site is down but, psipog.com has some really good stuff on there.

Only thing is, I mean, what are the ABILITIES going to help you in, I mean, everything you can do psychically, you can do physically, and, if you know something is going to happen, what is the point in it happening in the first place? Like I was saying, I think you used to use it for self defense, ie; cave man gets a vision of a wild bear attacking the cave, so he gets out of the way before the bear comes one hour later. Or, cave man is fighting another human, and see\'s that he will hit them in such and such place, and so he knows to dodge an attack, or, caveman is about to fall off of the cliff, he levitates back to the ground, etc...It\'s nothing we need NOW, and that\'s why I believe that we can\'t use them really. And, it\'s been done ALL through the century, even during civilization\'s beginnings. I believe reading some guy that used to levitate out of his castle window, and back in, and, even, a nun who levitated for like 3 hours and could not stop it. And than even, I mean, it\'s nothing new. But, at the same time, it\'s nohing to help you. I was watching the scifi channel, and they made it to where, everyone was happy in society, and there were no problems, and everyone thought everyone looked good, no crime, I\'m glad there is, because, I would hate to live, and than dieing, without first living ATTALL.

(Yeah, I know, you try to talk to someone about something, and than you go back becuase you forgot something, skip ahead, time doesn\'t really have a meaning for you.)

(Which, I have a theory on time relativity that explains that also, if you don\'t beleive me, that time is nothing more than relative, I give some examples also, and it also deals with lentation.)

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bart, I absolutely agree with you that most of it has little application. I\'m glad you have found a way to chill. I just meant to say that it\'s good for you to chill. I know EXACTLY what you\'re talking about re time, and I know it because I\'ve had incidences of precognition, so I know that time is not linear. Not everyone can have this experience and many people don\'t even believe it\'s possible. When I was younger, the fact that I could, or that I knew who was on the phone when it rang, or that I knew the phone was going to ring before it did freaked people out and made me feel weird, therefore isolated. I have had experiences of communicating with people at a distance and in dreams, and I know they happened because I don\'t say anything, the other person will come to me and tell me they had this dream, blah de da. But this stuff can make you wonder if you\'re crazy and make you feel like you\'re odd. Feeling weird/isolated is the root of many problems. So I just meant to say you\'re not alone in the world and for you especially it\'s important to stay centered and to be careful when you play with your psychic energy, also that you may be picking up vibes you\'re not even aware of that provoke you to destructive acts, so to try to build your boundaries. I have a very hard time shutting my head down, too - information\'s flying in at many levels all the time, which probably is true for everyone, the problem is that I\'m AWARE of it and I have to process it all, and it\'s exhausting, and I\'ve had to learn to filter some of it out rather than encourage it to come to me, and maybe that\'s the case for you as well, since we\'re of the same type, and that type is the one most apt to be psychic. Sorry to be all up in your business. I mean well.R

[jvkohl]

So far there are no studies showing that -rone alters levels of luteinizing hormone (LH), as does -nol, in women. It may take several more years for assays to be performed since -dienone and an estrene are currently the hot numbers being tested--yet still not for a hormone response. The LH response has been my focus since 1992, and it was nice to finally see proof in humans that it occurs. Nevertheless, I think that -rone has even more potential for many reasons that I continue to procrastinate about with regard to posting them to this forum. The main reason is that I think that -rone (from the adrenal glands) is a substance that can be produced much more rapidly than -nol, or -none. But also, heterosexual men produce ratios of androsterone to etiocholanolone (A/E) that are higher than those in women. Homosexual males produce ratios that a more similar to those of women. I think this is telling us something important, but details and absolute proof don\'t arrive quickly. I\'ve posted several times on the -rone topic.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, JKohl. It\'s been a while but here I am again. OK questions: If you are aware that -rone is one of the \"metabolites\" of DHEA, do you know what -nol and -none are \"byproducts\" of? You can post a reply or pm me.

If you could allow me to send you a pm I have one more question for you.

\"patchy\"