jamesdeanmartin
06-26-2002, 03:09 PM
Hey guys,
Had a long talk about guys with three of my fairly close female friends today over lunch. I\'d thought I\'d share some of the things they told me, it was somewhat fascinating. None of these girls are targets (and they all have boyfriends) so i think they were being fairly honest.
Here\'s what I\'ve learned:
(1) Women label men (supporting my previous ideas about this). What is scary is that women label men at an alarmingly quick rate, within the first minute of meeting them.
Their labels are 99% based on your looks. It takes an overwhelming personality and charm to overcome an unkempt appearance. (So in general, you are already labeled long before you even have the opportunity to really talk to a girl, thus somewhat negating the whole \"I love his personality bs\")
Basically the labeling can be broken down into two categories:
attractive or not attractive. Each label then has different future consequences:
Attractive: Can lead to a number of different scenarios within a few meetings. If you are labeled attractive and she associates having a good time with you, then you will fit into one of two categories: (1) guy I\'d like to date (DATEABLE) (2) guy I\'d like to just do (DOABLE). If you are labeled as attractive but she does not associate positive times with you, she will quickly relegate you to the role of [censored], or conceited guy (if only to protect her own self-esteem). What becomes interesting I\'ve found is that the highest label you can achieve is \"dateable\" but all three women agreed that if they really liked a guy, they wouldn\'t sleep him right away, generally not for a month. Meanwhile the Doable Guy is getting some, but going nowhere longterm.
What some people miss is that friends can be labeled attractive and women may not make a move on them. Women often hold back their feelings, or are extremely sublte about their interest in guys. Just because you are friends with girls doesn\'t mean they think you are unattractive.
Not-attractive: This is the tricky one. Once you are labeled not-attractive you face an uphill battle. After numerous meetings you may become a (1) Friend or (2) Annoying guy who likes me and won\'t go away. (Sometimes these are hard to distinguish between).
It is incredibly hard to break out of this initial first impression. Some good ways to do this would be to go away for a while, go to college, go on a vacation and return so that women are judging you again for the \"first time.\" For guys, at least for me, I rarely noticed subtle changes among the girls I meet everyday. But when one comes back from three months away, I notice everything. That was another thing I learned, women notice EVERYTHING and then some. Be aware of this, our senses must be dulled or something.
What does this all mean for pheros? A lot actually. I\'ve had huge success when I\'m meeting beautiful women for the first time while wearing pheros. I think with pheros I ended up being ranked attractive right off the bat from a physiological response standpoint, before I even open my mouth. That is golden. But there are problems. If you do not make it into that category, or if the girl associates those pheromones with someone else, you be facing an uphill battle. I have close friends who I\'d love to date but don\'t seem interested in me, while much more attractive women I meet at parties and such cannot get enough of me. That\'s what made me look into this labeling behavior in the first place. I think women do it (and men to) in order to simply the cognitive processes. Instead of having to re-analyze everyone for sexual worthiness each time we see them, we form a label for them in our schema and keep it there until some evidence is presented to change that. It is much easier for the mind to say \"Todd is hot\" than to say \"Todd has blue eyes, he is tall thin, nice lips, et. al., so Todd must in fact be hot\" Unfortunately I think women in the end only remeber the labels they have on guys and not the requisite parts, but that\'s another discussion (most women can\'t say why a guy is hot, they just think he\'s hot, probably because they labeled him hot the first time they saw him, then haven\'t put forth a lot of cognitive processes in order to re-evaluate that label since then).
Ok I want to rap this up quick, but I have some little notes not related to labeling that could be of some service.
(1) If a woman is looking at your lips, she is almost invariably thinking about kissing you, this is a good thing :-)
(2) A woman is in control of her body at all times around a guy, everything she does is for a reason. Touch is critical. If she brushes her breast up against you, she did it for a reason. Let women make the first move on touch always, and let them set the pace.
(3) Women can be insanely jealous. This may be able to be used to your advantage, but it is risky and could turn into a nasty situation real quick.
(4) Women never tire of hearing sincere compliments. The key is to make them sincere however.
(5) Many women become Alpha-Females when hanging out in groups of guys. They want all the attention and protest fiercly when a new women enters the fray. Be aware of this. You may be able to use it to your advantage. Or you may have to deal with the catfights. Women love the attention of men, even guys they wouldn\'t label as dateable or doable. Once a girl learns that a guy likes her, she wants him to always like her (it\'s a cognitive process to protect your self-esteem). If Joey like you last week, but this week he likes Sarah, there must be something wrong with me. Even if the girl didn\'t like Joey, she may begin to flirt with Joey to retain her status as the girl he likes. This may sound evil, but its true.
(6) Allow women to talk. Ask them open-ended questions. Try your best not to talk about yourself. I know I have problems like this, whenever there is an ackward silence I just start rambling and then I figure out that I didn\'t learn too much about the girl. Women form bonds through communication. There is an internal construct of this, especially if a women is sharing deep secrets or personal experiences. Internally a women says, I must like this guy, because I\'m sharing so much with him.
Anyway, some crap I learned today, there\'s probably more that you are forgetting. If any of the ladies want to comment, please do so. I\'ve quite fascinated by the male-female dynamic (despite my own failings and shortcomings from time to time in that area :-)
JDM
Had a long talk about guys with three of my fairly close female friends today over lunch. I\'d thought I\'d share some of the things they told me, it was somewhat fascinating. None of these girls are targets (and they all have boyfriends) so i think they were being fairly honest.
Here\'s what I\'ve learned:
(1) Women label men (supporting my previous ideas about this). What is scary is that women label men at an alarmingly quick rate, within the first minute of meeting them.
Their labels are 99% based on your looks. It takes an overwhelming personality and charm to overcome an unkempt appearance. (So in general, you are already labeled long before you even have the opportunity to really talk to a girl, thus somewhat negating the whole \"I love his personality bs\")
Basically the labeling can be broken down into two categories:
attractive or not attractive. Each label then has different future consequences:
Attractive: Can lead to a number of different scenarios within a few meetings. If you are labeled attractive and she associates having a good time with you, then you will fit into one of two categories: (1) guy I\'d like to date (DATEABLE) (2) guy I\'d like to just do (DOABLE). If you are labeled as attractive but she does not associate positive times with you, she will quickly relegate you to the role of [censored], or conceited guy (if only to protect her own self-esteem). What becomes interesting I\'ve found is that the highest label you can achieve is \"dateable\" but all three women agreed that if they really liked a guy, they wouldn\'t sleep him right away, generally not for a month. Meanwhile the Doable Guy is getting some, but going nowhere longterm.
What some people miss is that friends can be labeled attractive and women may not make a move on them. Women often hold back their feelings, or are extremely sublte about their interest in guys. Just because you are friends with girls doesn\'t mean they think you are unattractive.
Not-attractive: This is the tricky one. Once you are labeled not-attractive you face an uphill battle. After numerous meetings you may become a (1) Friend or (2) Annoying guy who likes me and won\'t go away. (Sometimes these are hard to distinguish between).
It is incredibly hard to break out of this initial first impression. Some good ways to do this would be to go away for a while, go to college, go on a vacation and return so that women are judging you again for the \"first time.\" For guys, at least for me, I rarely noticed subtle changes among the girls I meet everyday. But when one comes back from three months away, I notice everything. That was another thing I learned, women notice EVERYTHING and then some. Be aware of this, our senses must be dulled or something.
What does this all mean for pheros? A lot actually. I\'ve had huge success when I\'m meeting beautiful women for the first time while wearing pheros. I think with pheros I ended up being ranked attractive right off the bat from a physiological response standpoint, before I even open my mouth. That is golden. But there are problems. If you do not make it into that category, or if the girl associates those pheromones with someone else, you be facing an uphill battle. I have close friends who I\'d love to date but don\'t seem interested in me, while much more attractive women I meet at parties and such cannot get enough of me. That\'s what made me look into this labeling behavior in the first place. I think women do it (and men to) in order to simply the cognitive processes. Instead of having to re-analyze everyone for sexual worthiness each time we see them, we form a label for them in our schema and keep it there until some evidence is presented to change that. It is much easier for the mind to say \"Todd is hot\" than to say \"Todd has blue eyes, he is tall thin, nice lips, et. al., so Todd must in fact be hot\" Unfortunately I think women in the end only remeber the labels they have on guys and not the requisite parts, but that\'s another discussion (most women can\'t say why a guy is hot, they just think he\'s hot, probably because they labeled him hot the first time they saw him, then haven\'t put forth a lot of cognitive processes in order to re-evaluate that label since then).
Ok I want to rap this up quick, but I have some little notes not related to labeling that could be of some service.
(1) If a woman is looking at your lips, she is almost invariably thinking about kissing you, this is a good thing :-)
(2) A woman is in control of her body at all times around a guy, everything she does is for a reason. Touch is critical. If she brushes her breast up against you, she did it for a reason. Let women make the first move on touch always, and let them set the pace.
(3) Women can be insanely jealous. This may be able to be used to your advantage, but it is risky and could turn into a nasty situation real quick.
(4) Women never tire of hearing sincere compliments. The key is to make them sincere however.
(5) Many women become Alpha-Females when hanging out in groups of guys. They want all the attention and protest fiercly when a new women enters the fray. Be aware of this. You may be able to use it to your advantage. Or you may have to deal with the catfights. Women love the attention of men, even guys they wouldn\'t label as dateable or doable. Once a girl learns that a guy likes her, she wants him to always like her (it\'s a cognitive process to protect your self-esteem). If Joey like you last week, but this week he likes Sarah, there must be something wrong with me. Even if the girl didn\'t like Joey, she may begin to flirt with Joey to retain her status as the girl he likes. This may sound evil, but its true.
(6) Allow women to talk. Ask them open-ended questions. Try your best not to talk about yourself. I know I have problems like this, whenever there is an ackward silence I just start rambling and then I figure out that I didn\'t learn too much about the girl. Women form bonds through communication. There is an internal construct of this, especially if a women is sharing deep secrets or personal experiences. Internally a women says, I must like this guy, because I\'m sharing so much with him.
Anyway, some crap I learned today, there\'s probably more that you are forgetting. If any of the ladies want to comment, please do so. I\'ve quite fascinated by the male-female dynamic (despite my own failings and shortcomings from time to time in that area :-)
JDM