Androstenol conversion to Androstenone

[FerroMone]

Since, i am a chemist we know for sure that secondary alcohols are converted to ketones. take for example Androstenol

Androstenol is a secondary alcohol since its formula is
16,5a-Androsten-3-ol 3-Ol means Alchohol
CH value is

Androstenone is a Ketone since its formula is
16,5a-Androsten-3-one 3-One means Ketone
CH Value is


In organic chemistry, a secondary alcohol like Androstenol
can be converted to Ketone like Androstenone. the chemical
reaction would be:

C19H30O ( androstenol) + ( oxygen) = C19H28O ( androstenol ) + H2O

as you can see from the chemical equation Androstenol w/c has 19 carbon, 30 hydrogen and 1 oxygen atom can be converted to Androstenone if the Androstenol molecule would lose 2 hydrogen atoms. The 2 hydrogen atoms of Androstenol would react to oxygen upon the presence of catalyst to form water, Since the Androstenol Lost 2 Hydrogen atoms, it is chemically now known as Androstenone.

So it is really true that Androstenol can be Converted to Androstenone. But you must have the catalyst or certain
chemicals w/c accelerates the combination of Androstenol
with oxygen.


The difference b/w Androstenol and Androstenone is just 2 Hydrogen Atoms, If you remove two hydrogen atoms to Androstenol then it becomes Androstenone.


FOR SOE users:
Did you notice that after several hours the SOE will exhibit Androstenone like properties ?

[sophie]

\"So it is really true that Androstenol can be Converted to Androstenone. But you must have the catalyst or certain
chemicals w/c accelerates the combination of Androstenol
with oxygen. \"

This sounds very interesting, but I am not a chemist. Does it mean my -nol based pheros can convert to -none, and how exactly? Mentioning ketones make me think of ketogenic diets, like lowcarb, protein based diets. Can this have an effect on pheros, or am I just really ignorant? /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

Bumping for some discussion, how will this apply in \"real life\" (sorry I am just not well versed on chemistry).

thanks, Ferro, for bringing up this subject.

[FerroMone]

Yup Androstenol can be converted to Androstenone. You just
need to expose Androstenol to Air then add a catalyst.

Ketogenic diets does not affect pheromone production. But
taking DHEA food supplements will increase your phero
production. Especially for the males, why here\'s why.
DHEA is DeHydroEpiAndrosterone it is converted by the
body to metabolites like Androsterone and Androsterol w/c
exhibits pheromonal properties.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So, what would this catalyst be?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bump!

& are you certain that there is absolutely no conversion taking place from -nol to -none even if a catalyst isn\'t present? I mean, on the skin the conversion takes place in the matter of hours. I also read something about approx 20 minutes in some back issue of the news letter. It seems reasonable to me that over the span of several months, some conversion is bound to take place.

[Whitehall]

Enzymes are, by definition, catalysts of the organic kind. So the conversion does take place on the skin. Not all portions of the skin will have the necessary enzymes and one would expect that they would be concentrated near the apocine glands. Likewise, bacteria can do this conversion (and others) using enzymes within the bacteria.

Therefore, where one applies exogenous pheromones could make a difference in what rate the conversion would happen. For example, SoE on the back of my hand results in a quick conversion to something that smells bad. Applying SoE to the underside of the wrists, the neck or the smooth side of the forearms does not cause this change in scent.

Other variables would include use of anti-bacterial soap, body and environmental temperatures. and perspiration.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Whitehall,
I agree with you on these things, but that\'s not what I wanted to get at. It wasn\'t clear of course, but I was thinking about slow conversion in a container. It\'s been discussed before, but as there was a knowledgeable person around I thought it might be discussed again.

\"So it is really true that Androstenol can be Converted to Androstenone. But you must have the catalyst or certain
chemicals w/c accelerates the combination of Androstenol
with oxygen. \"

Can this take place without the \"catalyst or certain chemicals\", or MUST they be there in order for ANYTHING to happen?

[Whitehall]

One could create a stuation where conversion would happen at a vanishingly slow rate - cyrogenic freezing without oxygen. In an abundance of oxygen, at a high temperature, and with a catalyst, the conversion would be faster.

So yes, it will happen in a bottle - faster if you open it often, expose it to sunlight, keep it at 100 deg F, and throw in your platinum jewelery. Leave it sealed and store it your freezer, and it will convert very, very slowly.

[Watcher]

Ok what if androsteRONE is the catalyst or at least an important factor in the breakdown on the skin of nol to none.
Just a puck shot idea probably wrong but worth discussing.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

isn\'t androsterone a hormone like testosterone, just not as strong

[Whitehall]

Check this link for more chemistry:

http://www.semiochemica.org.uk/articles/elepbut4.html (\"http://www.semiochemica.org.uk/articles/elepbut4.html\")

[Walter_Mitty]

OK, since I work for an enzyme guy I went and looked it up. The enzyme in humans (well there are actually two) is called, \"3-beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase,\" and then to conguate the keto group with the unsaturation the bod uses, \"Delta5,4 steroid isomerase\". This is a step in a lot of hormone synth. The enzymes are not all that particular to any one molecule. If you want to find the true name try searching for these enzymes common names at ExPaSy. The chemical aspect of it is most likely this

Nol + NAD(P)+ ---Enz--> None + NAD(P)H + H+

Bacteria are going to like to do this because they can feed the NADH in to their respiration cycles for easy energy. If you are curious about biosynthesis of these compounds, start with cholesterol, and follow how the body makes testerone (or estrogen for that matter) out of it. If you have experience in biochem type stuff, you can see the same patterns show up, and this is no exception. My personal favorite reference for this type of stuff is Harpers Biochem. Not to wordy, or science geeky, and nice illustrations.

But, the -rone is not going to catalyse this rxn. You need a repository for the two electrons that have to be removed. Metal ions could do this (probably do) but I would expect that the unsaturation at carbon 5 on the phero would be oxidized before none would be made. This is why antioxidants are used, with cholesterol (same ring structure and position of the unsaturation.)

[DrSmellThis]

I have verified to myself many times that taking DHEA supplements (I\'d recommend only 5 or 10mg, the smallest available doses unless over 50. Prostate problems show up even at 15mg per day over long periods in some, higher risk of prostate cancer.)gives me the sweet stank of pheromones.
The nice thing is you get countless miscellaneous pheromones that don\'t come in bottles. Androstenedione works too --I can smell it on myself clearly -- but boosts the more specifically testosterone-related pheromones. As an experiment for the brave, try smelling your ear wax (a storehouse of human pheromones) before and one hour after taking such supplements. The effect is dramatic, for those of us that get their drama from ear wax.

[FerroMone]

Well Androstenedione is cheaper than Androstenone. What is the effect of Androstenedione to women ?? I think i should try this phero too. Have you tried Androstadienol ?

[xvs]

Androstadienone is what\'s called A1 on here... lots of discussion if you do a little searching.

[FerroMone]

I was talking about AndrosteneDione not AndrostaDienone they are different chemicals

[DrSmellThis]

Havent tried it, Ferro, but heard it was good to combine those two for reasons that I forget, one of which I suspect is balance in pheromone production.

Incidentally, androstenedione is a legal steroid nutritional supplement, not a pheromone. It is a precursor to all the testosterone derived pheromones. I recommend very small doses with this one, too.

[Whitehall]

SMELL ONE\'S EARWAX?!?!?!?

That\'s one of the reasons I could never work in the medical or biological fields - yuck!

[DrSmellThis]

teeheehee /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[FerroMone]

I have tried smelling my earwax. Well to me it smells good and sort of addictive. I don\'t know for other persons if they have same experience.

[DrSmellThis]

I do, but then again I\'ll smell anything. Ear wax is like human musk. I freak women out when they ask me to make them a perfume I tell them I need to spend a few minutes smelling their armpits to get their pheromone signature. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[MaxiMog]

LOL

[FerroMone]

he he he