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Watcher
06-03-2002, 08:05 PM
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????
This is what women want in men.

NoLimits
06-03-2002, 09:37 PM
Here are some of the things they want:

Nice body - biceps, broad shoulders, abs, clear eyes, good teeth/smile, thick hair, muscular, 6ft, good skin/tan, fresh breath, good cologne, deep voice, energetic, good posture

Resources - $, $, $, power, knowledge, status, ambition, industriousness, brains, success, be seen with important people and hbs, potential, hard working, security, nice watch/clothes/shoes/car/house

take care of things - clean car, clean house, get things done, solve problems, workout

commitment - gifts, love, time, romance, attention

reliable - dependable, stable, mature

make them happy/feel good - jokes, compliments, personality, fun, excitement, good sex, take them out, conversation, listen, dancing, massage ----> make them feel good and they will make you feel GOOD (if you know what I mean)!

alpha - confidence, dominance, persistence, pos attitute, get them to do things for you, unphased by negs/problems, make them feel protected/safe, low stress

misc - personalized things, things that make you diff, make good 1st impression, mirroring, be enthusiastic, be observant - use 5 senses well, set goals, visualize, pos thoughts

**DONOTDELETE**
06-03-2002, 10:13 PM
LOL! Looks like I\'ll be better off staying single!

**DONOTDELETE**
06-03-2002, 10:55 PM
lol! reminds me of radioheads song \"Fitter Happier\" the style and all.
Good list.

Bruce
06-03-2002, 11:25 PM
Yes, good list. Jokes aside, it looks rather overwhelming/discouraging at first read, but there are a LOT items there you can pull together with some effort. Even though looking at a list like that might make you just say \"forget it\", there are a lot of benefits tied in with those items beyond just \"getting laid.\" Furthermore, I think there is a dark voice in each of us telling us we don\'t have what it takes regardless of the effort we put out, but if you just take a look at a \"check list\" like this one and give it some thought, I think you will agree that most of them are very \"doable.\" If just depends how strong your desire to achieve your goal is. If you want it, you can have it, and there is your check list; or you can make your own list if you\'d rather, but it is doable.

Lastly, I am reminded of a conversation I had with one of my teachers at a music college in Boston where I was later to graduate with honors. I was expressing my dispair at ever achieving my goals, and my teacher said: \"Hey pal, look around. I don\'t see too many Mozarts around here, do you?\" Or as Woody Allen put it: \"85% of sucess is showing up.\" Or in this case \"85% of your competition already gave up,\" so all you have to do is just show up and you are more than likely to win by default.

I think there was a long discussion about the virtues of learning to swing dance a while back. When I lived in Boston I was quite the dancer myself, and a typical converstion I would have with my roommates as I walked in about noon the day after a big dance would be:
\"Bruce, how did it go at the dance last night?\"
\"Great! I went home with the second most beautiful woman there.\"
\"Wow! How did that happen?\"
\"Another guy showed up at that last minute.\"

Bruce

xvs
06-03-2002, 11:51 PM
Actually, what women want in a sex partner is:

Nice body - biceps, broad shoulders, abs, clear eyes, good teeth/smile, thick hair, muscular, 6ft, good skin/tan, fresh breath, good cologne, deep voice, energetic, good posture

make them happy/feel good - jokes, compliments, personality, fun, excitement, good sex, take them out, conversation, listen, dancing, massage ----> make them feel good and they will make you feel GOOD (if you know what I mean)!

alpha - confidence, dominance, persistence, pos attitute, get them to do things for you, unphased by negs/problems, make them feel protected/safe, low stress

What they want in a husband is:

Resources - $, $, $, power, knowledge, status, ambition, industriousness, brains, success, be seen with important people and hbs, potential, hard working, security, nice watch/clothes/shoes/car/house

take care of things - clean car, clean house, get things done, solve problems, workout

commitment - gifts, love, time, romance, attention

reliable - dependable, stable, mature

Unfortunately, women (according to surveys) often get a husband for the things they want the husband for, then go and get impregnated by the one they want the sex partner for.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-04-2002, 01:03 AM
I think the most important thing about those types of goals is that you improve your life for you and because it makes you happier without anyone. Then if those positives also happen to attract
someone else that is just a bonus!

Bruce
06-04-2002, 04:17 AM
OK, I\'ll go with that.

B

jose
06-04-2002, 06:02 AM
Women want a strong dominating male that won\'t take their mind games. Treats them like a lady in the livingroom and a slut in the bedroom. Also funny but cocky and won\'t agree with everything she says.

Bruce
06-04-2002, 02:16 PM
By the way!
Formal invitation to any and all women reading this:
Please help us out here..
What are you looking for?
Are we on the right track?

Bruce

**DONOTDELETE**
06-04-2002, 02:56 PM
I don\'t think most women could tell you what they want in a man. And if they can, I would bet that their actions as far as relationships go would contradict what they say. For example, they say they want certain things, and they have a guy with those qualities, then they dump him \"Just because\". I bet that happens often enough...oh well....

tounge
06-04-2002, 07:55 PM
Always pay attention to a women\'s actions and deeds. Many times they differ from her words. If you do this, you will be far more succesful with them.

sophie
06-05-2002, 04:04 AM
LOL, Jose, you\'re so right!!

Here\'s my list, in order of importance:

Self confidence without arrogance

sense of humor, make me laugh

Intelligence, or at least good common sense, is attractive, as is a work ethic

Physically fit but only to normal degree, extreme musculature is not that important , and please don\'t shave your chest!! Body hair is good (personal opinion)

Looks in general are secondary but yes we all do have our idea of an attractive man, but this is not all-important

some degree of vulnerablility, don\'t worry you can\'t fake this, you probably don\'t even know if you have it or not, but women can sense it.

a few other attributes that are attractive:

sincerity

affection without smothering

respect for self and others

money is not important to me, enough is as good as a feast, don\'t need to be rich to be happy (personal opinion)

and last but not least, Chemistry as we all know, some people just don\'t click, accept it and move on.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-05-2002, 08:34 AM
I think different people want different things. But mainly what a woman wants (or man) and what she will put Up with are two different things. It\'s when she finds a man that has enough of the things that she wants and are important to her that she will get drawn in then of course there will always be negatives and contridictions and it will vary how much of it she will put up with and still like them Despite these things!

So, I don\'t know if it is really that a woman LIKES to be dominated or not treated the best but that she might put up with it and like him in spite of those things. But inside she will wish that he was different and curse about those things to her friends and stuff!

No one comes with only positives!

But of course the positives are all good!

I think some of womans biggest complaints are things to do with respect, attention, empathy, understanding them, listening, being a true friend, being consistant, sharing equally with full trust and openess, not double talking, being more affectionate in the bedroom and all around, expressive of emotions and reasuring them how they feel about them, being considerate, valuing there opinion and effort,
thinking highly of them, never disregarding them, validating there feelings and not attacking them, dispising them or thinking they are crazy (as practical as men are), not being romantic or sentimental,
workaholic, not valuing personal life enough over practical work and material stuff, being guarded, defensive, assuming things, thinking they know what all your motives are and never looking at the bigger picture!

But of course woman want all these things along with someone who is confident and makes them feel secure and protected and womanly and is stable and a pillar of strength. With his own independance and opinions and proactive approach to life. Also someone who is very loyal and doesn\'t act interested in other woman at all.

They also want to feel like an equal partner and appretiated in the relationship and want to discuss everything and all decisions. Like
they would with there best girlfriend.

Sometimes though the very things we are attracted to become the things that bother us with there flip side of the coin. Like I liked that my fiance was independant, full of ideas, alternative, big thinking, entraprenuer and different then the norm. And on the flip side you have instability, over idealism, workaholism, inconsistancy, not knowing where they\'re going next, it comes more important then you,
the same confidence that you like when it\'s that they are better then
other people they work or are partners with and take charge gets turned on you that they are also better then you and what not! There are always neg. and positives to each trait! So, well such is life!

We\'d love to have our cake and eat it too but it ain\'t happening!

**DONOTDELETE**
06-06-2002, 02:23 PM
Why A Man Can\'t Win

If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race, you are a male chauvinist.
If you stay home and do the housework, you are a pansy

If you work too hard, there is never any time for her
If you don\'t work enough, you are a good for nothing bum.

If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, this is exploitation.
If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your ass and find something better.

If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism.
If she gets job ahead of you, it\'s equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks, it\'s sexual harassment.
If you keep quiet, it\'s male indifference.
If you cry, you are a wimp.
If you don\'t, you are an insensitive bastard.

If you make a decision without consulting her, you are a chauvinist.
If she makes a decision without consulting you, she\'s liberated woman.

If you ask her to do something she doesn\'t enjoy, that\'s domination.
If she asks you, it\'s a favor.

If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, you are a pervert.
If you don\'t, you are a fag.

If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, you are a sexist.
If you don\'t, you are unromantic.

If you keep yourself in shape, you are vain.
If you don\'t, you are a slob.

If you buy her flowers, you are after something.
If you don\'t, you are not thoughtful.

If you are proud of your achievements, you are up yourself.
If you don\'t, you are not ambitious.

If she has a headache, she is tired.
If you have a headache, you don\'t love her anymore.

If you want it too often, you are oversexed.
If you don\'t, there must be someone else.

-----------------------------------------

Found this awhile ago somewhere posed as a joke , but so much of it rings true .

CptKipling
06-07-2002, 07:22 AM
I think that by asking this question in the first place we have the wrong idea, \"what women want\" is far too generalised a statement to ever warrent an addequate answer. Like Sophie was saying, a lot goes down to personal preference and \"degrees\" to which a certain attribute is important.

For example, a certain girl may favour looks very heavily, and focus less on personality and intelligence, but this is most likely an indication that she is very hampered in both of those departments. Personaly, i wouldn\'t want to spend anything more than an evening with such a girl.

I think that it also depends a lot on the girls mood, and (not trying to be sexist, but oh well) i think most people will agree that there is a lot of inconsistancy with what a woman sees as important at any particular time.

Like xvs said, everybody looks for different things when it comes to long term partners and a one nighter. Its just important to asses what kind of woman your target is in the first few seconds and adjust to what you feel SHE needs. The lists in this thread are all usefull, but everyone is an individual, and will appreiciate it if you treat them as one.

proteus
06-07-2002, 09:23 AM
In the final analysis I think the folks at fastseduction.com have it right in saying that (and I\'m generalizing/summarizing here) the more pertinent question is what do you as a guy want and forget about trying to figure out what the ladies want as it is impossible to understand chick logic (an oxymoron if there ever was one when it comes to relationship stuff ) and just focus on being the alpha male, deciding what you want, not taking any bs from women who pull any crap or [censored]-test you and changing the attitude from \" what can I do to get her\" to \"is she good enough for me, and does she meet my standards\". Perfect attitude is the post by Jose on the first page of this thread as I\'ve found from experience that this is what works. Just my two cents!!

MOBLEYC57
06-07-2002, 10:09 AM
STOP TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT!!! WOMEN DON\'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY WANT!! IT MAY SOUND A BIT HARSH, BUT IT\'S TRUE. LOOK AROUND YOU...SEE ALL THE UNHAPPY FACES THAT HAVE SOMEHOW LOST THE KEY TO THE FIRE? SOME STICK IT OUT FOR FINANCES, OR AFRAID TO BE ALONE. SEE THE GUY WHO OPENS THE CAR DOOR FOR HIS LADY, BUT DOESN\'T SHUT IT? THINGS GET OLD/BORED, AND IF YOU CAN\'T FIX IT MENTALLY.....YOU GOT IT....PROBLEMS. SO DON\'T GET GRAY HAIR TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT....COMMUNICATION IS YOUR ONLY HOPE.

CptKipling
06-07-2002, 10:42 AM
True, but even though women may not know what they want, you can still guage what they will respond well to. It is imposible to get it \"right\", but you can impress with your ability to be sensitive to their feelings/views etc.

I have to say that all this alpha male stuff is pure bollocks(\'scuse language), yes it is definately important to apear confident and of high social standing, but because a confident person apeaers to have no bad things to hide, and so seems to be the safer option, and not to apear to be something that culture has made mostly redundant. However, emphasis on \"mostly\", because as with pheros, it does have some affect, but you don\'t want to give the impression that it is the only and best way, which it absolutely isn\'t. I couldn\'t help but laugh at some of the things on fastseduction.com.

This is just my opinion, may well be wrong.

proteus
06-07-2002, 11:06 AM
Well, the stuff at fastseduction works and that\'s what\'s important to me. The proof is in the results and so if you ain\'t tried it well....

Watcher
06-07-2002, 12:02 PM
I think the issue with chick logic is the constantly conflicting hormonal urges to
a) be with a steady stable partner
b) this constant 24 hour a day urge they have to mate with something else - another male.

That is the simple answer its all hormonal and female behaviour stems from this constant conflict.

On the flip side men are always looking for something else to root, even if they have a gf. Especially if they are unhappy or getting pissed with the devil (if she is that way inclined personality wise)

**DONOTDELETE**
06-07-2002, 09:02 PM
Here\'s the deal.

If a girl in her early 20s don\'t know what she wants you can start using the stuff in fastseduction.com (I\'ve tried their tactics in clubs with young girls and it works!) to get what you want.

If a woman knows what she wants you can start showing respect and be a gentleman, only mature women know how to appreciate nice people.

Different tactics to attract different chicks.

a.k.a.
06-09-2002, 09:50 AM
Lots of good observations here.

I think if more people understood their needs thereā€™d be more successful relationships.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-10-2002, 06:29 PM
Well...I don\'t have a list but I do have a concept. My husband has had women chase him because they (and me) think he has it all, including a great body. Here\'s what appeals to me:

Gorgeous smile with dimples that wink on and off
Sense of humor that makes me laugh until my stomach hurts, especially his one liners
Compassionate
Considerate
Sensitive
Great butt
Great body
Fidelity
Confidence
Smarts
No macho bullshit because he\'s a man\'s man and doesn\'t have to shout to make the world take note. He just is.
Not cocky - doesn\'t need to be
No head games, ever. Straight up.

But y\'know, even if he were missing teeth, had a gut and was bald as a billiard I would have still fallen for this guy. He shows that he cares on a daily basis, i.e., clips little artlcles I like to read, helps with the cooking and cleaning or buys something inexpensive because he knows I\'d get a kick out of it. I\'ve had this going for 10 years, and I\'ve found the best way to keep it going is to give back.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:20 AM
All the character stuff is great, the physical stuff wonderful but not essential, and I believe you can actually get by very nicely with the two C\'s: compliments, and cunnilingus.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:44 AM
oh my god....fulltilt...i think you are raising the testosterone levels of everyone on this forum...and all without the pcc...thanks!!!

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:46 AM
tee hee

TGIF everyone

BassMan
08-23-2002, 05:44 AM
<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

All the character stuff is great, the physical stuff wonderful but not essential, and I believe you can actually get by very nicely with the two C\'s: compliments, and cunnilingus.

<hr></blockquote>Very to the point, Red. On the other hand, the ladies can get by with the two B\'s - beauty and blow jobs.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 05:46 AM
Well said.And if the blow job is great but the beauty is lacking, you can always just close your eyes.

BassMan
08-23-2002, 05:49 AM
/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 10:38 AM
Hey FTR, speaking of the B&amp;B theory (the latter especially), why are few women good at it and most of the others aren\'t good at all? Now, I\'m not trying to bring up the whole experience issue, but some women don\'t even want to try to be good at it or satisfy their partner... Just curious...

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 01:31 PM
Giving head can be uncomfortable and scary. It makes your jaw, neck and shoulders ache, it can make you gag, sometimes the man tastes or smells bad, sometimes the way it\'s presented is degrading or makes the woman feel abused, often the way it\'s asked for is almost scary. It\'s really important to break a woman in correctly, and most women have had it jammed down their throats and/or their heads forced so many times they become completely adverse and see it as abuse because there is no positive feedback at all for them. So make sure you\'re clean. Avoid onions and garlic. I don\'t know much more about diet\'s effects on taste because it\'s not a concern for me, but there is literature out there on the subject if you want to research it. Point is, you\'re better off if your ejaculate is not nasty tasting.A position that she can be comfortable in is important too, so experiment. Some women find being on their knees a priori degrading. Some find it tiring. So try other ways and see what she likes best.I think women do not work on oral technique because they don\'t realize the incredible depth of need men have and how far they will go to get and keep it. And until they\'ve experienced the powerful beneficence available to them through giving good oral, it just doesn\'t resonate with the idea of having sex, having sex mostly being associated with pleasure, and giving head mostly being associated with no pleasure at all for her, and, worse, with distinct unpleasantness, physical and/or psychological. So some women will do it out of duty just because you want it or insist on it (to shut you up) and never get in the groove and learn to enjoy it.It\'s important to break a woman in gently with oral, give LOTS of praise, be patient over several sessions, while she\'s pleasing you talk to her, caress her hair, caress her face, rub her neck, rub her shoulders, give her specific instruction, guide but don\'t force, let her know that gag reflex has to do with breath control and that she can practice so as to help eliminate it ... you have to teach her specifically about your cock and what you like, and show your appreciation. Tell her she\'s beautiful when she\'s doing that, tell her it feels so good to you when she does that, etc. Agree beforehand whether she swallows or not and let her know when you\'re about to orgasm so she is not taken by surprise. There are many ways to teach her to anticipate and be ready for your orgasm as you go along. Don\'t insist upon oral to completion with anyone, but especially with an inexperienced woman.Men and women have fragile egos, sexually, so don\'t compare her to other women or make her feel inadequate in any way. This is an activity for nothing but praise combined with specific instruction.And you should reciprocate. :-)

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 01:42 PM
FTR, I\'m 40+ and until I read your truly honest explanation from the female point of view, it was alway hard for me to analyze why it seemed to be such a chore for some women. Thanks for a refined point of view with an open mind and a great answer with some heart and guts...

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 02:03 PM
OH thanks for that! I wish you and your partner much joy!

Gerund
08-23-2002, 02:06 PM
Good points being brought up: Some women don\'t understand its importance, and some women find it distasteful (no pun intended).

As for being inhibited from giving blowjobs because of possible aching jaw, neck, shoulder, etc. -- I don\'t think those things would ever be a determining factor in avoiding blowjobs. Both men and women are willing to submit their bodies to all kinds of lasting aches and pains in the pursuit of sexual pleasure: head-board and rug-burn torture, just to name a couple offhand (lol).

But the initial question was why some women aren\'t good at it or don\'t try. Well, if they don\'t like doing it, it is difficult to become good at it, if they don\'t enjoy it on some level. Half of my appreciation of a blowjob is determined by the female\'s degree of cheerful enthusiasm about rocking my world with her mouth (and hands, if she\'s smart). And I\'ll confess that I enjoy the longest-lasting and deepest satisfaction when the woman swallows. Speaking plainly, I feel more accepted and special, valued and appreciated if the girl swallows.

Hmmm.. seem to be losing my train of thought here~ lol Anyway, whether a female is good at giving head is a combination of talent and experience. Any woman can be taught move-by-move what to do, and when, and how... but she\'ll never be better than someone who is a \"natural.\" There\'s no other way to say it.

In my experience, being a naturally good lover takes more than knowledge and repeated experience. I think it\'s a talent, or ability just like any other: Like having good balance; or a good singing voice; or perfect-pitch hearing; or terrific olfactory ability. To a certain degree, it\'s instinctual -- everybody has it, but to varying degrees.

Some people sense automatically what their partner is feeling on an ongoing basis during lovemaking, through a dozens of non-verbal cues: muscle tension, breathing, heart rate, amount of movement, frequency of movement... etcetera, etcetera, etcetera... and interpret all that information correctly to maximize their partner\'s pleasure.

Others can\'t do it at all, or hardly at all, and seem completely clueless, even if they know \"what to do, and how to do it.\" Their knowledge doesn\'t translate into knowing when to speed up, apply more pressure or less pressure, change area being stimulated, etcetera.

Either they have some intuitive or inherent knack for an activity, or they don\'t. I compare it to an individual who has perfect pitch as opposed to someone who is tone deaf. The person with perfect pitch isn\'t even aware he or she is putting forth effort, because it comes naturally... the tone deaf person struggles much harder, gets poorer results, and has no incentive to continue the activity.

Wow, sorry this ran so long. I promise not to get on my soapbox like that very often~

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 02:47 PM
Gerund -- Do you suck dick? No? Then shut up. Head board headache and rug burn come from mutual pleasure and being so lost in the moment that you don\'t care or notice what else is going on. Oral is different until you\'ve learned to enjoy it. I know what I\'m talking about. Your attitude is bad. She\'s a natural or she\'s not a natural is not helpful, fair, nor necessarily true. Everyone has to be taught. Some might start with more talent, but it\'s not rocket science, and anyone can learn.

sophie
08-23-2002, 04:05 PM
You rock Redhead!! gerund, some of your points are valid but blowjobs are hard work, and not so satisfying for the woman unless she\'s pleasing a man she loves (major point here). And I believe anyone can learn too. I read a lot of sex books (Joy of Sex, Sensuous Woman etc, all those 70\'s manuals) when I was young and learned lots of technique, also with experience of course.

well, I blush easily (was told yesterday I blushed like a \"whore in church\" in a friendly way, cracked me up) so I\'m not going to say too much, but I have a question too. What about the men who don\'t get \"into\" cunnilingus? I\'m talking about the guys who will do it, but just don\'t seem to enjoy it very much. Before I was married I had a lover who just loved to eat pussy, he got off on it so much, what a guy!! His appreciation of the female body was an orgasm in itself. well, just wanted to bring up that topic, since it ties in with the topic this has turned into.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:08 PM
Sophie, High Five! I\'m the president of your fan club.

I would very much like to hear a response to Sophie\'s question as I have the very same question.

Thanks for the backup, Sophie.

Hugs,

R

EXIT63
08-23-2002, 04:13 PM
Sophie, Do you remember the Silken Swirl?

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:17 PM
The Sensuous Woman was HUGE - I don\'t know how the young girls have gotten along without it, wasn\'t it great? There don\'t seem to be many books like that around anymore, or if there are, I\'m not aware of them. It was just right for a beginner, not too hardcore, not so soft as to be vague, great attitude modeled.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:43 PM
I read it and wished more guys would so they could have more understanding of the female mind, heart and soul. I\'m really focused on the needs and desires of all of the females I date in various cultures. Love them all!!!

sophie
08-23-2002, 04:52 PM
I wish I still had a copy of the Sensuous Woman. Wasn\'t there a Sensuous Man book too?? silken swirl LOL!!! I remember that. I did get a book club book a few years ago called 99 Ways to Please a Man or something like that. I\'ll have to dig it out of storage.

Maybe one of us should write one of these books....

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:56 PM
I\'d read it...

Watcher
08-23-2002, 04:59 PM
99 ways to please a man that could come in very handy for some women (sorry the culture ive come up against in australia is that men do it women sit back and take it get all the pleasure but - dont have to give any back its a sick cultural thing men get attacked down here by the alpha females. Heck they want money. Nice girls ( i mean lesser nasty types) are very few and far between (something to do with more women staying single until they find mr perfect but never finding him then complaining. FTR the old prince charming and white knight chase. (its a mirage of course but hey the media love telling women that this is the way) Something about powerful media interests maintaining society views as they want them through the mass media.

Gotta keep power structures in place.

http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/ (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/\") - please sign the petition need 10000 signatures. Please help

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 04:59 PM
I\'d be happy to collaborate. FunLover invited me to write a book and suggested some chapter headings - we could use his ideas for a start. I think there was a Sensuous Man - \"J\" touched off an avalanche, but the original was the best, in my opinion. How old were you when you read it? I was 14. I still have it. I think it\'s still in print.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 05:05 PM
OH! I know what I wanted to tell you all on the subject of BJ\'s - last month\'s Elle magazine had an article on the phenomenon of young women getting extensive plastic surgery and how they generally do not pay for it themselves, but their rich lovers do. From that to how unabashedly golddiggerish these very beautiful young women are. Parenthetically in this article was an exchange overheard in an expensive boutique wherein one woman was saying to another that she\'d heard about these women-only parties where someone comes to your house with \"toys\" and teaches oral techniques and you all learn from each other. The young girl said, \"WHY? Pretty girls don\'t HAVE to.\"

It was so classic.

sophie
08-23-2002, 05:16 PM
LOL just went to Amazon to see if I could order it. Sensuous Woman available from 9 cents used!!! Many copies available from different sellers, obviously well read? Sensuous Man...now that was funny.... \"Comments: Like New - 1972 ed never been opened-I SHIP FAST-excellent condition\" ....never been opened!!!! Not very many copies available of the Men version.

sorry guys, I know most of you here are giving, generous lovers (I\'m assuming). I just had to laugh at \"never been opened\". Now back to my original question on page 4....any answers ???

FTR, in 1972 I was about 14 so probably it was around that time. I was way too wild between 14 and 16, then settled down after that til I was 18.

edit: just read your newest post \"pretty girls don\'t have to\"....oh, I\'m glad I\'m not so young anymore, don\'t really know what to say to that kind of young person.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 05:19 PM
There was also a book called \"The Inept Seducer\" which I wish I\'d kept; it was hilarious.

I guess I scared the guys off, Soph. Everybody\'s reading, nobody\'s writing, it\'s just us chickens.

cluck
cluck

EXIT63
08-23-2002, 05:19 PM
Now that\'s the best one I\'ve heard all day !

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 05:30 PM
Sophie wrote: What about the men who don\'t get \"into\" cunnilingus?

I can\'t answer that - I\'m really into it. Like your ex, I don\'t ever want to stop. I like to please...

Watcher
08-23-2002, 05:33 PM
Well what about men not into cunnilingus well i guess they get less than those that are. Love it like it please please please more lol.

http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/ (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/\") - please sign the petition need 10000 signatures. Please help Sign into this forum as well.

sophie
08-23-2002, 05:41 PM
going back to the original post of this thread....I just LOVE men who LOVE women!!! and cunnilingus is a strong indication of a man who loves women. \'nuff said....

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 05:43 PM
Hurray! for JustHuge

So - how did you learn?

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 05:49 PM
This is what I\'ve been saying. Talent counts more than size or pounding ability (although neither exactly hurts my feelings). But we like oral as much as you do. So one reason some women don\'t reciprocate is because some men want it all the time and rarely give it, and if they do, won\'t stay long enough for the grand finale, or the grand finale takes too long because they want to show you how it\'s done rather than take any instruction.

Wonder if it\'s an extension of the \"refuse to stop for directions\" problem.

EXIT63
08-23-2002, 06:00 PM
Show me Show me Show me how you do that trick.
The one that makes me scream, she said.
The one that makes me laugh, she said
And threw her arms around my neck.
Show me how you do it. And I promise you, I promise that
I\'ll run away with you
I\'ll run away with you

Watcher
08-23-2002, 06:03 PM
Lol


http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/ (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/\") - please sign the petition need 10000 signatures. Please help

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 06:05 PM
EXIT,
thnx
:-)

sophie
08-23-2002, 06:05 PM
Exit, where is that from? I love your responses to our threads...

BassMan
08-23-2002, 06:09 PM
Post deleted by BassMan

EXIT63
08-23-2002, 06:13 PM
Just Like Heaven
The Cure
From the album \"KISS ME KISS ME KISS ME\"
1987

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 06:15 PM
A Master speaks ... those who have ears to hear, let them hear...

BassMan
08-23-2002, 06:20 PM
Post deleted by BassMan

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 06:24 PM
I try soo hard to be a good girl....sigh

**DONOTDELETE**
08-23-2002, 11:27 PM
I believe the main and most inportant thing is to BE YOURSELF.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 03:00 AM
My ex GF, who was (her words) \"somewhat experienced\", was good at it but was very shy in receiving. Very strangely, when I ate her she showed disconfort. This has always puzzled me because I thought I was at least \"decent\", if not great, at it (I had a former \"fling\" with an American woman where I could go on for what it seemed to be hours -- resting my tongue and lips now and then, of course :-) and she refused to give but was eager to accept.
a yucky note (dont read this if you\'ve just eaten): my first GF swallowed (it happened only once) and told to me it was like \"gulping down raw eggs\" (she had to visit the restroom to throw up 5 minutes later :-(

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 06:25 AM
Hey, Golem - that with your girlfriend who was shy about receiving is fairly typical - It\'s not as bad as it used to be but it is still bad, the commercial hype about vaginal odor, there are so many commercials for douches and \"Feminine deodorant sprays\" and depending on how you were raised, it\'s very easy to think that any smell at all from there will be received as disgusting, and of course you don\'t know what other women smell like or look like, for that matter, so you don\'t know if your nether region looks or smells attractive, and you\'re taught to keep your knees together anyway, so a woman has to overcome some heavy conditioning and self-consciousness. Compliments! go with cunnilingus :-) The first time someone did that to me I had no idea what he was about to do, when he first put his mouth there I thought my head would explode, but I kept trying to push him away for being shy, until he said \"You taste delicious.\" oh rilly? hmmmm...well....ok....if you insist... lol

first time swallowing can be traumatic for sure

camusflage
08-24-2002, 03:49 PM
What about men who just go through the motions? I know a gal who actually has never been eaten. Her ex considered it \"dirty\", but it was peachy keen for her to go down on him.

We have the whole cultural thing to blame for this attitude. Only one time have I ever had a lover whose taste was not to my liking. Of course, I come at this from the perspective of a guy who loves to do it. I was intimate with a good friend for the first time a few weeks ago, and I managed to get her into a zone, one that I\'ve only seen a few times, where the orgasms just kept rolling. She told me afterwards that it was completely amazing to her, and that it had never happened before. I told her I could have kept going down on her for hours. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Truth be told, personally, I prefer giving than receiving. It\'s exceedingly difficult for me to relax and not take an active part in sex.

As far as guys who do it, but unwillingly, or without feeling, it\'s exactly the same as women who don\'t get into blow jobs, but give them for any number of (usually poor) reasons. You don\'t take time to become proficient at things you don\'t truly enjoy.

sophie
08-24-2002, 04:05 PM
Exactly, camus, some men just don\'t want to give, but they\'ll \"take\" all day long. What a pity. Kudos to you, you sound like a great lover.

this is reminding me of an episode of Sex and the City a couple of weeks ago,where whatshername Miranda (?) went to Weight Watchers and met the \"overeater who overate her\". She thought it was gross that he didn\'t wipe his mouth after coming up for air and kissing her mouth. Any opinions on this? (I thought she was being overly critical myself). anyone see this episode? If you fellows don\'t watch Sex and the City you should (if you have HBO), it\'s quite entertaining.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 04:08 PM
I LOVE THAT SHOW. It\'s the only show I\'ve ever seen that was truthful about the way women talk to each other and what they talk about. Re not wiping his mouth - I\'m offended if he does wipe his mouth, and if he\'s willing to eat me, I\'m certainly willing to clean his mouth/face with my tongue for it. I like all the tastes mixed together, it\'s very intimate, makes me feel very close to him.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 04:12 PM
Hey - so while we\'re down to the nitty gritty here -I wish someone would answer me this: what is UP with the insistance on shaving pubic hair? I like a guy who trims, but shaving might be nice the first five minutes after, and then it\'s whisker burn time and who needs that?? Ditto for me to shave - I\'ve done it, but jesus. I trim close every two weeks and that\'s all I\'m willing to do - can\'t deal with the maintenance and the discomfort, and I am suspect about the squeamish factor re guys who can\'t stand it au natural. Anyone care to jump in? (I swear I won\'t go off and tell anyone to shut up - sorry about that, I was out of hand.)

EXIT63
08-24-2002, 04:14 PM
Clean shaven is ok but I prefer a landing strip.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 04:46 PM
Because of the beard burn factor? or you just like the look better.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 04:52 PM
I thought you said \"Clam shave\" LOL!
...then again, it means the same thing...
I\'m for the landing strip or any interesting patterns, like the letter V or and arrow ie. =&gt; etc. etc. Too furry and they get in your teeth, the landing strip doesn\'t burn the nose as much as a 2 day full shave does.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 04:54 PM
Flavored lubes are a good way to have fun with oral, with an inexperienced partner. Juicy ID makes lubes in vanilla, banana, chocolate raspberry, papaya, I can\'t remember how many others, in sample sizes. SO and I spent an entire afternoon putting different flavors on each other and licking them off. When I\'m tired but still enthusiastic about pleasing, a flavored lube sometimes helps me focus, for some reason. It might help with taste factor though, although ... if you love pussy and she tasted bad to you, I hope there\'s not a reason like trich or bacterial infection ... thank god for men like you.

I strongly suspect that women who don\'t like to receive have had bad or tepid experiences with it, just like women who don\'t like to give have just never had it click for them. It happens with guys who know women like it but can\'t find quite locate the little man in the boat, and it\'s hard for women to overcome shyness to point it out.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-24-2002, 04:59 PM
A guy with a beard or mustache if you are clean shaven will rub you absolutely raw. I swear I think porn movies started this, because clean shaven makes for more graphic close ups. In practical terms, it\'s a pain, literally and figuratively, to me.

Wizard. Patterns? lol :-)

Gerund
08-24-2002, 10:41 PM
Hi FTR and Sophie~

My remarks were not meant to provoke you.

And I readily concede that the headboard and rugburn analogy was not fitting. Those result from *shared* pleasure, as FTR correctly pointed out, and being \"lost in the moment.\"

It was not my intent to downplay or invalidate the physical discomfort you personally experience while performing oral sex on a man. And I\'m sure many women share your sentiments. But I have to point out that the lead sentence in that paragraph of my post said I didn\'t think that physical discomfort would be a \"SOLE DETERMINING FACTOR\" causing a woman to not engage in that activity.

I was not trying to minimize any awkwardness or difficulty with the act experienced by you. I was saying only that discomfort *by itself* wouldn\'t dissuade a woman from performing fellatio... and that is exactly what my original reflects. Fair enough?

And although I appreciate very much the posts by women in the Forums, and value the input, I have to take issue with FTR\'s reply to my original post, in which she indicates that my observations were not **helpful, fair, or accurate**. I would like FTR\'s thoughts as to whether *her reply* was \"helpful, fair, or accurate.\"

Gerund
08-25-2002, 12:35 AM
I gotta agree with justhuge -- I really, really enjoy going down on a woman. The taste and smell are arousing to me and fill my senses. I like it so much that I can\'t comprehend how some guys aren\'t into it. Sex to me almost doesn\'t seem complete unless I\'ve tasted her for a while. In fact, if she\'s agreeable, I like the woman to cum once from my tongue before we even move on to penetration; it seems to make a 2nd orgasm during intercourse more likely.

And I swear this is true: the first few times I did oral on a girl when I became sexually active as a teenager, I experienced a tingling at the base of my spine. Honest -- I\'m not kidding. It\'s hard to describe, but the best adjective I can put on how it felt would be \"delightful.\" I only felt that tingling the first few times, and although it happened 30 years ago for only my first few encounters of cunnilingus, it gave me an absolutely indelible memory...

Gerund
08-25-2002, 01:41 AM
Hi again FTR and Sophie;

I *never said* that any woman can\'t learn how to perform fellatio. Never. I did not even come close to saying that. In fact, I said, \"any woman can be taught move-by-move what to do, when, and how...\"

What I DID say, and what I will stick by, is that some women are naturally better at it. That may not be helpful or fair, but it is true. I was responding in part to the post by justhuge that was just above FTRs post, where he asked, \"...why are few women good at it and most of the others aren\'t good at all?\"

FTR and Sophie, I agree with you completely that any woman can learn to perform oral sex on a man. It would be ludicrous to argue otherwise.

What I do assert and defend, however, is that some women, to varying degrees, have a *knack* or a *talent* or a *skill* or an \"intuitive ability* or \"instinct* that enables them to give their partner greater pleasure in that activity. And I think it would be equally ludicrous for you to try to argue otherwise.

No matter what the defined activity, there will always be individuals who are better at. And no amount of teaching, instruction, or repetitive experience will enable someone to become as proficient or accomplished as the person with natural ability. Doesn\'t matter whether it\'s golfing, typing, bowling, singing, skiing, swimming, dancing, giving backrubs or giving blowjobs. To claim, protest, or believe otherwise, you must either deny reality, or succumb to wishful thinking.

So I hope you can see, FTR, that I don\'t have a bad attitude at all. I was simply acknowledging reality. I\'m appreciative of any efforts a woman makes to please me that way, and I let her know it. I don\'t criticize, make remarks, or compare or anything like that.

As a long-time receiver of oral sex from women, I have to say that I *also* know what I\'m talking about. There are subtleties and intangibles to *any* activity that not everyone can master, no matter how much learning or practice takes place. That is all that I was trying to illustrate.

Yes, any woman can learn how to please a man through fellatio. But not every woman will be able to do it *superbly*. And if you re-read my post, you\'ll see that was what I\'ve been saying all along.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-25-2002, 07:12 AM
Gerund, you write so beautifully and you have so much to offer; I\'m so glad to hear from you. I\'m sorry I snapped. Obviously, I have issues on the subject. Here\'s why. It\'s part of my makeup to be intensely curious about sex; I always have been. I\'m also musical, intuitive, and very responsive. I first had sex at 13, and even at that age felt like I had waited unbearably long. Free love was an ideal to be realized and I did my very best to promote the cause, went at it with wild abandon, and enjoyed myself immensely, except for giving oral. My experiences with receiving were good. My experiences with giving were horrible. Without exception, what happened was that he would force my head, I\'d be unable to breathe, I would gag, and he would come in my mouth. Sometimes the come tasted vile, burned in my mouth, and the aftertaste lingered. I was unable to associate giving head with pleasure and I cringed at the thought of it -- but I never refused although I found it very unpleasant. I read books about it from age 14 on, and had techniques in my head ready to try. But you can\'t do silken swirl on a guy who, after maybe one swirl, bangs your mouth and then comes - do you see what I mean? It wasn\'t until my divorce at 40 that I decided once and for all to figure out what the problem was, and what I did was to consult experienced dominants and ask to be trained. I had to be completely reconditioned. It took about a year. Since then I\'ve experimented on some major players, guys who\'ve had lots of \"naturally talented\" and very experienced women give them head, and I\'ve knocked their socks off and been told I could teach any woman they\'d ever been with. My skills were really hard won, but the result was worth the effort. Now I give head because I want to, I love it and I could do it for hours, sometimes go to sleep with my SO\'s cock in my mouth, and he is incredulous that I ever disliked it, I\'m such a \"natural.\"Even a woman with inherent natural ability can be damaged to the point that she is unable to realize her potential. It takes two. Receiving is as much a talent as giving. I think, from reading your posts, that you are probably an exquisite lover and it would never occur to you to do what was done to me, so perhaps you can\'t imagine the damage it does on the receiving end, but ... if I didn\'t have the quirky and tenacious temperament that I have, I would have gone to my grave never falling into the groove and would have missed all that pleasure. I wrote what I did because that\'s been my experience. I don\'t think many women have the high motivation that I have to excel sexually, and without someone to help them, once damaged are never able to realize their potential.You\'re right - the physical discomfort does not dissuade a woman who loves to give oral. However, like many people, I have tmj, also a small mouth and jaw and a well-endowed partner, and have had to learn to relax to a point that I would previously not have thought possible in order to fully accommodate him. For about two days after we\'ve been together, my jaw is out of alignment (it eventually pops back into place, sometimes sounding like a gun went off POP!), the back of my throat is bruised, and my neck and shoulders ache. For me, that\'s a pleasant reminder of a beautiful intimacy, but I\'m having a really good time. For women who maybe aren\'t having such a good time, I posited that it could be a dissuading factor.Thanks so much for writing back.Renee

proteus
08-25-2002, 07:42 AM
wish more ladies were au natural as you put it and skipped the shaving of the pubic hair. I want to be with a \"woman\" and to me that includes a nice bush - this whole women shaving/pre-pubescent look has gotten so old

**DONOTDELETE**
08-25-2002, 08:23 AM
Never thought, as a democrat, I\'d be so happy to see a vote for bush. (groan bad pun)

Trim clippers work really well with the guard at 1/4 inch. That way there\'s not enough hair to be a nuisance and everything stays soft, no whiskers. Trimmed is my strong preference for me and for him.

camusflage
08-25-2002, 08:48 AM
I\'ll take a crack at it.. In my experience, things tend not to linger as long in a gal who shaves completely versus one who is wild and wooly. Trimming is a happy medium, but still more than shaving. On the negative side of shaving, there is the comfort level.. There\'s nothing down there to soak up/diffuse any of the sweat that can build up during the day.

Myself, I prefer shaved. I too shave, and when I\'m with a lover who shaves as well, the feeling is simply indescribable. Another benefit, for guys, is that you don\'t get any hairs caught in the condom. THIS is a good reason to shave in and of itself. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

camusflage
08-25-2002, 08:53 AM
I dated a girl back in school who, after allowing me to go down on her, would require that I immediately wash my face and brush my teeth. She eventually came around, but by that point, I\'d figured out she wasn\'t terribly bright. Intelligence, and usually somewhere &gt;= genius level, is one of my hard and fast requirements for anything beyond a brief fling. I know it\'s weird, but smart women definitely turn me on.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-25-2002, 09:16 AM
Before I took lessons, sometimes I would realize that it wasn\'t quite what it should be, and I\'d ask - and sometimes I got comments like, \"well, you\'re good, but I\'ve had better, yeah. I\'ve just had the privilege to be with some women who were real naturals. It\'s ok, you\'re so good at other things...\" It would frustrate me nearly to tears, so discouraging to think maybe there\'s some bj gene you were just born without, and no matter what, you\'ll never be good at it. I had to be taught step by step by someone with absolute control over his own orgasm who could tell me not only what to do but what to \"listen\" for, what to notice, who could say, ok, I\'m going to come and I\'m going to tell you exactly when, meanwhile, do you feel my balls tighten? now, you\'ll feel it start to rise, what are you noticing about taste? etc., ok, take your breath and be ready to swallow, don\'t stop your stroke, little more pressure, ok, now, nice and easy, start to swallow, you\'re doing so well, you\'re doing great. I was certainly mechanistic at first but the first time I was able to do it by myself without any coaching at all I was so proud of myself and he so proud of me, I took off with it and soon was able to make his eyes roll back in his head and make him groan. With practice and a partner who knew how to teach, I \"got\" it and now I pass for a gifted natural. Having been through a transformation, I know it\'s possible. That\'s why I say it\'s not fair or helpful to categorize. I have also been with men who just sat there and gave no feedback at all except to hiss \"Watch your teeth!\" I have helped a couple of men learn cunnilingus who were just miserable at it to begin with, and, having had no useful/positive feedback and their heads pushed away, just gave up trying, thinking there must be some mystery to it they\'d never be privy to. I know my head\'s hard but I maintain everyone can be sexually awakened and anyone can do anything sexually as well as anyone else can. It\'s harder to find the key to some locks, but I believe the keys exist. Your analogy re musical talent resonates - I thought of a friend who asked if I could teach her to sing harmony and I thought, no, I can\'t, what do you mean? - can\'t you hear it yourself? because no one ever had to teach me, I just did it - and you may be right that there are degrees of inherent sexual ability, but unlike music, all humans are made to make love. Aren\'t they?

xvs
08-25-2002, 09:16 AM
Brushing teeth immediately before or after oral sex is generally a bad idea because tiny cuts often result from brushing, and infectious bacteria or viruses which otherwise would be killed by the body\'s natural defenses can get into these cuts and cause infections.

CptKipling
08-25-2002, 03:59 PM
Brushing teeth may well be bad, but using pepper mint mouthwash is definately a good idea. Girls say it tingles and feels so good... /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

I personally love it, but one thing that I find slightly annoying is the quiet girl, makes no noise and says nothing. I know I\'m VERY talented with my hands, and I was with this girl, and I knew he was having *lots* of orgasms, but she was comopletely silent! Thrusting her hips and stuff some of the time, oppening her mouth, but then kissing me (using my hands at this point). I asked her later if she enjoyed her self, and she said \"Oh yes!\" then I smiled and said \"How many times?\" she said the she lost count, but guessed at 40.

40! Fuckin hell thats loads! And not a sound! No words of praise, nada.

Whitehall
08-26-2002, 07:27 AM
Supposedly, one way to make semen and the vagina taste and smell more pleasant is to eat lot\'s of celery.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 07:35 AM
I\'ve heard that cucumber also makes semen taste better. I\'ve also heard celery increases natural pheromone production. according to the article i read it gives you more androste*rone*, thought i\'m not whether that was a spelling mistake, could have meant -none.

CptKipling
08-26-2002, 07:58 AM
Imagine the scene:

You\'ve met this girl, you\'re at a party, but you\'ve escaped and found a quiet room...

You both get undressed, you\'re thinking, wow, nice body, lets see if she tastes as good as she looks.

You lower your head, lower, then a bit lower, OMG, its...its...DISGUSTING! Quick, make an excuse!

\"[Gag] I\'ve erm...[sneeze] just go to go. Be back in a seccond\"

You come back in two minutes later.

\"Phew, sorry, just got this sudden erge for celery.\" You take a bite.
\"Hmm...it tastes so good! I bet you want some.\"
\"Erm, no not really, I\'m quite full. Now where were we...!\"
\"No! No wait, you don\'t understand, you really do want some celery!\"

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 08:17 AM
lol

Gerund
08-26-2002, 08:53 AM
Hey there Full-Tilt-Redhead-

Indeed, all humans are made to make love...:) I think of sex as maybe the most life-affirming thing a couple can do together.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 10:01 AM
Gerund,

Peace

Whitehall
08-26-2002, 11:27 AM
Of course, the celery could take a week or more to have an effect, I would imagine. Personally, I don\'t like to get blow jobs. A little oral worship is fine as foreplay but coming in a woman\'s mouth is a waste of the ol\' precious bodily fluids.

One can even get celery extract which should do the same thing.

oscar
08-26-2002, 12:04 PM
Whitehall,

You don\'t like to get blow jobs. That\'s understandable.
Perhaps you\'ll want to take some celery seeds along when you return to your home planet.

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 12:07 PM
Thank you, Oscar. I wasn\'t gonna touch that one but I was so hoping someone else would...

Watcher
08-26-2002, 12:29 PM
Celery seeds may enhance the urge for a blow job lol i will have to give that one a go. It seems to certainly be the flavour of the month around here at the moment.

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

Whitehall
08-26-2002, 12:31 PM
Esteemed Colleagues,

I share a very personal, very honest sexual preference and what do I get? Ridicule!

So what\'s so funny about preferring orifices without canines, incisors and molars? It\'s not Freudian but a woman with THAT big a mouth would look pretty funny. Frankly, the best part of a woman is the part that is uniquely female.

As to celery, why else would celery be such an important ingredient in Bloody Marys?

Watcher
08-26-2002, 12:34 PM
Sorry whitehall not attacking anyones preference heck a woman can give me a blow job anytime, and i love bloody marys so the celery thing shows its importance. The best part of a female is that she is a female. Lol Peace

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 12:42 PM
Whitehall,

Sour grapes on my part. I was hoping to practice on you. Oh, well, if you\'re sure you don\'t want it. ......

oscar
08-26-2002, 12:47 PM
Whitehall,

Now I do understand. I should have guessed that it was a concern for your partners\' welfare that influenced your preferences.

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Whitehall
08-26-2002, 12:50 PM
Just kidding!

Look, I do enjoy a woman getting enthusiastic while giving me head, but I reserve my ejaculation for deep between her legs, where Nature intended. Otherwise, its just mutual masturbation, my decidely second choice.

oscar
08-26-2002, 02:00 PM
Whitehall,

Masturbation? Perhaps.
Mutual? Not in my opinion, unless you consider the uvula an erogenous zone.
It may well be, but I\'ll defer to the ladies on that.

I view a good BJ as being sexually serviced, and relish it as such. I also enjoy going to have my hair cut and being shampooed, or lying down and enjoying a good massage.

Granted, these are all selfish pleasures.

In the case of my lovers, they either already have or will receive their pleasuring before or after mine, so I see no problem there.

In the cases of my hair stylist and masseuse, perhaps I\'ll be able to reciprocate at some point in the future. I hope.

I don\'t see where it\'s any more of a waste of precious bodily fluids than is ejaculating into the vagina of a woman whom you have no intention of impregnating.


Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Whitehall
08-26-2002, 02:18 PM
Let\'s agree to disagree; there is no conflict of interest between us. You can take the passive role if you like being serviced.

I\'ll stick with the active position.

Did you read the latest \"science\" about how ejaculate in the vagina acts as an antidepressant for women? Haven\'t seen a corresponding benefit for women from BJs yet - swallowing just ain\'t the same - guess I\'m just more intuitively saintly than thou.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 02:32 PM
Could somebody please pass me a pair of hip boots? Sh*t\'s gettin\' deep in here...

oscar
08-26-2002, 02:49 PM
Whitehall,

\"Serviced\", yes. \"Passive\", no.
The engine should be running while the mechanic\'s under the hood.

Otherwise, I agree to disagree. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

I\'m quite curious why the oral administration of a dose of a proven antidepressant wouldn\'t be as effective as one administered vaginally.
If no such study exists, perhaps I\'ll take up the baton.

I am, as always, humbled by your piety. Et cum spiritu tuo.

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

marv14yag
08-26-2002, 03:02 PM
Eh, I BEG to differ, those soft, big lips, and that soft, wet tounge...Ah....Dude, you\'re weird, you REALLY are...Well, you\'re not like MOST guys...

Bart

Watcher
08-26-2002, 05:00 PM
Ill give you the corressponding benefits of BJs for women. Read it somewhere that BJs help womens immune system get used to youre DNA so that when you are ready for her to fall pregnant if shes used to youre seamen etc then her bodies antibodies in her vagina are less likley to attack youre sperm on their way up to mate with the egg. Because as we know womens antibodies go to work staright away after sex if shes at that time of the month, thats why us guys need to pump 100s of millions of sperm into women when we are doing them over. Its in the interests of both parties and this is why BJs happen. Thats where the intuitive part comes in.

Watcher does it again he he.

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 05:10 PM
Whitehall, actually I quite believe you and I would love to see that study.

All I would say about bj\'s v putting it where it oughta be is, it doesn\'t have to be an either/or proposition. You can make a night of it and do both. A couple of times. :-)

camusflage
08-26-2002, 05:46 PM
FTR:
Info about the study is available <a target=\"_blank\" href=http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2002/06/19/semen/>here</a>. Most interestingly, from a phero perspective, are the comments of Winnifred Cutler, who the article describes as having deiscovered pheromones in \'86. Funny, she can find problems with others\' methodology..

Put me in the same column as Whitehall. While I have no problem at all accepting a little mouth music, I find it too passice to bring me to orgasm quickly, if at all. I need to have a much more active role in sex to be able to hit nirvana.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 05:53 PM
I have been saying this for years and no one would listen. Depression kicks in after about 6 weeks with no sex including sperm inside. It just gets steadily worse the longer it goes.I can\'t believe some lab coat finally listened to a woman. Never mind the shrinks. \"Why don\'t you just masturbate?\" Because it doesn\'t have the same effect, I need to be with a man.\" \"Why do you think you are so dependent on men?\" \"I\'m not! I just get really depressed if I\'m not getting laid regularly.\" \"Why don\'t you buy a dildo if you\'re missing penetration?\"ARG Here\'s a quarter, why don\'t you buy a f*king clue...I can\'t believe this.Women of the World! Get off the Prozac and on the Peniscillin!Use of antidepressants has increased alarmingly, I believe, in both sexes but especially in women.Amazes me - you know the saying, can\'t see the forest for the trees? Some of these scientists seem to me like they can\'t even see the leaves on the trees for studying the veins on the leaves. Also the intimacy thing. It\'s the intimacy. She just needs to cuddle. Women just like to cuddle, that\'s enough for them.OH HELP ME RHONDA. Can we ever get off the \"nice girls don\'t like it\" trip?!Sorry for the rant, but this blows my mind. FINALLY.Thanks for the link. I know a smug bastard I need to send it to.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 06:02 PM
Bj\'s are for a treat. The football game half time bj. The it\'s your birthday see how I wake you up bj. The you just got promoted bj. The you just got fired but I love you anyway bj. Definitely no substitute for the real thing bareback but fun and pleasurable anyway, and I\'ve always got the real deal somewhere in the process, so ... no loss.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 06:07 PM
FURR RULES ! I love the animalishness of it. (Get ready folks...) When I went to Europe as a high school senior, I immediately noticed how few women shaved their armpit or leg hair. Instead of suffering from culture shock, I felt a neat sort of kinship with these \"au naturel\" women. They seemed more real, more snuggly, more relaxed - actually- ultrafeminine. Ladies... JOIN THE NEW WAVE, DON\'T SHAVE! VIVA LA FUZZ!

Gerund
08-26-2002, 06:51 PM
Yep, I can sense the imminent release of Prozac in suppository form... /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 06:58 PM
Medicate me, doctor. Medicate me heavily...

Gerund
08-26-2002, 07:12 PM
Doctor make everything feel allllllll betterrrr~ /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif I have also been known to kiss owies.

Man, I just can\'t wait until I have 25 posts so I\'m no longer classified \"stranger.\" Stranger than what? Stranger than who? I think it just leaves too much open to interpretation...

\"Stranger\" Gerund, signing off--

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 07:15 PM
Camusflage, could just be you haven\'t had enough friction and enough action that her head/neck/shoulders ache the next day... :-)

Gerund
08-26-2002, 07:40 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
unless you consider the uvula an erogenous zone.
It may well be, but I\'ll defer to the ladies on that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasn\'t that somewhat the premise for the original \"Deep Throat\" movie? That Linda Lovelace\'s clitoris was a bit below her soft palate? Hey! Maybe that explains the similiarity between \"vulva\" and \"uvula!\" More closely connected than we think??? /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...

**DONOTDELETE**
08-26-2002, 07:58 PM
Hey, Sophie --this comes late in the conversation but I just saw your edit re \"pretty girls don\'t have to\" -- doesn\'t your hand just itch to go upside her head one good time?On the other hand, I have to laugh. I\'ve said to some of the guys on the site, gear down a notch from pitching to 9\'s and 10\'s to pitching to 6,7,8\'s. I promise you\'ll have a better time. The \"pretty girls don\'t have to\" mentality I think is a lot of the reason they\'re bitching so much about women being arbitrary, gold-diggerish, non-responsive, unfaithful, etc. etc. May as well buy a blow up doll with a laugh track, some of the 10\'s are SO shallow they can\'t get off the pedestal \'cause they\'re not used to moving around that much. And the guys aren\'t with them because they enjoy their company, but because they\'re accessories that boost their status. So it\'s not about good sex or fun or relating, it\'s about posing.Oh, btw, the article was in last month\'s Allure, not Elle. There was a really good article in last month\'s Elle about open marriage, tho.

camusflage
08-26-2002, 08:32 PM
Oh no, I assure you, I\'ve been the lucky recipient of many *wonderful* blowjobs. That being said, only two were able to take it all, but that\'s not all that goes into a good blowjob. More than anything else, it\'s when the gal enjoys it, that\'s what makes it a wonderful experience.

EXIT63
08-27-2002, 02:49 AM
One day those vapid 10s are gonna hit the wall. And when they do, It\'s all gonna come crashing down around them. What happened to the constant stream of guys that were always kissing my ass. Gone. How come guys aren\'t hanging on my every word anymore. Because you\'re stupid and boring. When you were hot, that was very easy to overlook. But now, we\'d just tell you to shut up already. I guess we could stuff a dick in your mouth to shut you up, but you never learned what to do with it cause \"pretty girls don\'t have to\". How come the guys that have sex with me never call? Because you\'re a boring lay. You always were a boring lay because you never had to try. I guess it\'s not to late to start trying. You see that bowling team over there celebrating their victory. Go to it babe.

Hot girls schmot girls. I\'ll take a girl with a great personality anyday. Give me a redhead that\'s short, plump, and curvy. One who\'s smart and has a great sense of humor. One who could suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch. And I will worship her eternally.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-27-2002, 04:22 AM
Ok, maybe a little bitter. But never mind, it\'s all good.

Thanks Exit.

Track0714
08-27-2002, 08:01 AM
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992457 (\"http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992457\")

Semen acts as an anti-depressant


there are other sites that theorize that women are happier when exposed to semen, either vaginally, orally or anally.

There are enzymes in semen that are produced by the prostrate gland and are only found in male semen. it could be these enzymes that the woman needs/craves

**DONOTDELETE**
08-27-2002, 08:16 AM
Scientific proof that horny babes DO crave your cum! Scientific proof that maybe a woman in a constant bad mood really does just need a good f*ck.

I\'ve been saying it for years, I\'m telling you, against some pretty stiff opposition (no pun intended) maintaining it was all in m head.

Track0714
08-27-2002, 10:16 AM
whats this world coming too... following some of the links on the google seach i did for semen, i came across this site.

http://www.getcheckmate.com/ (\"http://www.getcheckmate.com/\")

you can get this kit to test for semen in your partner/SO/spouse\'s underwear.

Note to self, keep a few spare pairs of underwear in the car and at work

Watcher
08-27-2002, 06:53 PM
Yes science does it again, some chicks need a good lay but i keep that one to myself because to say it is blastmospus. The opposition is everywhere, so i say f**k her good and f**k her well so shell never forget the f**k you gave her.

www.anitadoth.com (\"http://www.anitadoth.com\")

**DONOTDELETE**
08-27-2002, 06:57 PM
I think that\'s the business that will send women out to where ever your husband works or drinks, hangs out, and do everything they can to tempt him to see if he\'ll cheat.

Then of course if he does, pictures are taken that prove it.

That\'s some mean stuff, isn\'t it?

xxxPantero
08-27-2002, 09:22 PM
I don\'t care what a woman wants. Why should we, after all? They don\'t care what we want. Find em, F*ck em, and Forget em.

I used to try so hard to please my girlfriend, for what? To be unappreciated, and then later hear \"no more sex\"?

Well, that means \"no more sex\" for her. Not for me. I have decided to be selfish and do whatever I want.

I will use pheromones and NLP for the most self-serving uses. I want to rule the world. Or at least control people.

Why dream small?

**DONOTDELETE**
08-28-2002, 01:27 AM
xxxPantero, what you need is help. We are all here for you brother. Seems like all you are doing is burning yourself for someone who obviously doesnt deserve you. There is alwasys someone for everyone.

proteus
08-28-2002, 02:57 AM
Just my 2 cents but I think in seduction even if using the RJ, pickupguides etc. it\'s absolutely crucial in knowing/caring about what a woman wants - then by satisfying these deeps wants/needs of her\'s you get what you want. The trick is not to listen to the conventional wisdom about what women want found in those silly magazines all over the newstands - I learn what women want from guys who have success in getting lots of woman and what they say is very diff. from this bogus advice that we are fed everyday from the mainstream media

Elana
10-09-2002, 03:29 PM
This was such a great thread thanks to FTR and some other contributors. I just had to bump it for the newbies. Every man needs to read it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 03:37 PM
Yes, interesting, but not every man needs to read it, for it varies from woman to woman. As we all should know...you can\'t pinpoint what women want. The sooner men stop trying to figure that out, the quicker hair growth product companies will be out of business. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Elana
10-09-2002, 03:38 PM
FTR\'s post is the one that I think all men should read. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 03:46 PM
Which post...please, give me the time of the post...I\'d like to see what you\'re thinking is informative, or good for the male population.

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 04:09 PM
Hey - so while we\'re down to the nitty gritty here -I wish someone would answer me this: what is UP with the insistance on shaving pubic hair? NOTHING LIKE SEEING WHAT YOU\'RE EATTING /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif I like a guy who trims, but shaving might be nice the first five minutes after, and then it\'s whisker burn time and who needs that?? Ditto for me to shave - I\'ve done it, but jesus. I trim close every two weeks and that\'s all I\'m willing to do - can\'t deal with the maintenance and the discomfort USE THE MUSTACHE TRIMMER, AND SHAVE WITH THE GRAIN /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif, and I am suspect about the squeamish factor re guys who can\'t stand it au natural. HAIR BETWEEN MY TEETH PISSES ME OFF BECAUSE IT\'S ANNOYING, AND IT TAKES ME AWAY FROM FEASTING TIME TO GET IT OUT!!! EVERY SECOND COUNTS WHEN IT COMES TO FEASTING!!! Anyone care to jump in? (I swear I won\'t go off and tell anyone to shut up - sorry about that, I was out of hand.)
WHEEEEEEW! THAT\'S GOOD!

**DONOTDELETE**
10-09-2002, 04:19 PM
MOBLEY MUST YOU SCREAM YOU WORK MY NERVES WITH THE CAPS LOCK KEY. SO WE SEE YOUR OPINION ABOUT SHAVING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ELANA WAS TALKING ABOUT THE BJ POST ON 8/23/02 AT 5:31. SHE THINKS ALL THE GUYS SHOULD READ IT. YOU THINK THERE\'S NO WAY TO TELL WHAT WOMEN WANT? ONE WAY IS TO STOP SHOUTING AND LISTEN...WE TELL YOU ALL THE TIME...

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 04:35 PM
I DON\'T SCREAM, NOR DO I CURSE, AND I DEFINITELY DON\'T WANT TO WORK YOUR NERVES! And I probably listen better than you FTR, and that I don\'t have to be told. So I\'m a lazy typist that doesn\'t like to keep shifting keys....spank me! No spank Bass! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Figured that listening thing out in my early 20\'s dear. It\'s the only way to learn, not only about women, but men as well. Everyone tells on themselves if you listen well, but that\'s only the fakers. BUT I FEEL YOUR PAIN. My opion on shaving is good...as always...just trying to help out. Just in case you fall for someone that likes feasting on shaven goodies. That\'s the kind of guy I am. And yes, I\'ve read your post...still all boils down to unselfishness, and love. If I was a woman and was going to give a man head, but he smelled, he\'d get slapped in the head with a bar of soap and some clorox!!! Same goes for a woman...\"I smell something fishy baby, that ain\'t your breath!\" Oh hell no!!! Not into Kimpshi!! (spelling) Tater!!

**DONOTDELETE**
10-09-2002, 05:48 PM
The book \"The Evolution of Desire\" by David Buss is a very informative read. Generally all human mating works on the same wants/desires. Men want beauty and fertility in women, women want resources and status in men. The funny thing is that women who are of high resources/high status still marry \"up\"...they want men with even HIGHER resources/status.

**DONOTDELETE**
10-09-2002, 06:02 PM
Mobley, I don\'t shave and I don\'t stink and I\'ve been through the bull with the guys who insist on shaven. Not worth the discomfort, and I just prefer hair. Trimmed to 1/4 inch. Having hair doesn\'t mean you smell.

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 06:12 PM
Mobley, I don\'t shave COOL FTR and I don\'t stink THANK GOODNESS!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif and I\'ve been through the bull with the guys who insist on shaven INSIST!!? WHERE ARE YOU FINDING THESE GUYS LOVE? Not worth the discomfort, and I just prefer hair THERE\'S NO \"I\" IN TEAM. Trimmed to 1/4 inch. Having hair doesn\'t mean you smell. I AGREE WITH YOU THERE LOVE. STILL...WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP.

**DONOTDELETE**
10-09-2002, 06:22 PM
I\'m finding these guys in DC, where there is a man shortage, and the guys are DICKS. I ditched that particular one a long time ago, anyway.

Sorry to jump on you. Sometimes the smelly pussy stereotype gets tiresome, seems like we have to scrub it down, douche, shave, jesus -- I\'m thinking whoever doesn\'t like it that much to begin with maybe shouldn\'t get any. Don\'t dis the pussy. lol

(jokey joke, Mobes)

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 06:31 PM
I\'m finding these guys in DC, where there is a man shortage, and the guys are DICKS. I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!! I ditched that particular one a long time ago, anyway. COOL!!

Sorry to jump on you. YEAH, THAT WAS PRETTY SORRY /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif BUT I\'M GETTING USED TO YOU FTR Sometimes the smelly pussy stereotype gets tiresome NO LOVE, IT\'S NOT STEROTYPE...I\'VE RUN ACROSS A FEW, AND THEY GOT NO LOVE. I FIND IT AMAZING THAT WHEN PEOPLE (males and females) THINK, OR GET READY TO GET INTIMATE, THEIR MONES SEEMS TO KEEP THEM FROM THINKING ABOUT WATER AND SOAP. I FOR ONE, CAN TELL A NATURAL SMELL OF A WOMAN, THEN WHEN IT HASN\'T SEEN WATER IN A DAY OR TWO, seems like we have to scrub it down, douche, shave, jesus -- THAT\'S NOT A BAD THING...IT\'S LIKE ALPO...NO MEAT BY PRODUCTS, , NO SOYBEAN, AND NO ARTIFICIAL FLAVORS /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif I\'m thinking whoever doesn\'t like it that much to begin with maybe shouldn\'t get any. Don\'t dis the pussy. AWH HELL NO!! NOT ME!!! BUT IF I CAN SMELL IN BEFORE IT BECOMES VISIBLE...I CHOOSE FROSTED FLAKES /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

(jokey joke, Mobes) You\'re trying love, you\'re trying {{{smooch}}}

**DONOTDELETE**
10-09-2002, 06:34 PM
You\'re pretty trying, there, yourself, Mobes. :P

druid
10-09-2002, 06:34 PM
I shave around the captain mainly because I read in a magizine that it makes it look bigger . /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 06:37 PM
/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif Hummmmmm...I shaved when I was a dancer, and it didn\'t look bigger to me.

MOBLEYC57
10-09-2002, 09:16 PM
Whatever! I need a cup of something wonderful, a bowl of kisses, a tablespoon of nibbles, a barrel of hugs, a cup and a half of smiles, an ummmmm full of caresses, spooning at night, a couple of sniffs of the neck, and that\'s on a daily basis!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif That\'s what THIS man wants in a woman!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif And I don\'t share!!!

Watcher
10-09-2002, 10:46 PM
Visually yeah sure it makes it look bigger, because all the hair missing means that its more in the ladies faces, plenty of dancers do it just for that reason. Wells strippers have to of course.

CptKipling
10-10-2002, 06:53 AM
Yay everyones favourite thread is back. iirc this is where FTR cut her teeth, ah the memories...

Kari
07-07-2004, 08:48 AM
LOL, Jose, you\'re so

right!!

Here\'s my list, in order of importance:

Self confidence without arrogance

sense of

humor, make me laugh

Intelligence, or at least good common sense, is attractive, as is a work

ethic

Physically fit but only to normal degree, extreme musculature is not that important , and please

don\'t shave your chest!! Body hair is good (personal opinion)

Looks in general are secondary but yes we

all do have our idea of an attractive man, but this is not all-important

some degree of vulnerablility,

don\'t worry you can\'t fake this, you probably don\'t even know if you have it or not, but women can sense

it.

a few other attributes that are attractive:

sincerity

affection without

smothering

respect for self and others

money is not important to me, enough is as good as a feast,

don\'t need to be rich to be happy (personal opinion)

and last but not least, Chemistry as we all know,

some people just don\'t click, accept it and move on.

YES! What she said!

Most of all... a

lover should be a friend. A good level of comfort and companionship is EXTREMELY sexy! If I we can talk and have fun

together.......