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ironration
05-08-2002, 05:12 AM
I doubt most of the hit stories on this forum. I think the real explanation comes from the following:

1: Some people are good looking or have good people skills. They may have started with bad confidence but by using Pheromones they un-lock their natural skills of seduction. They would get the same effect from meteorite stones if they just believed it would work.

2: Some people interpret what is normal behaviour as something to do with pheromones. Women tend to flip their hear all the time, they do it because they are bored, nervous, relaxed or because they have nothing better to do. They will do it even if no male is present. A small sub-set of the hair flipping may be classified as flirteous(sp) behaviour, but hair flipping in itself is nothing special.

3: Some people are probably making up hit stories because they want attention, because they think it is fun etc. Nothing strange about that, making thing up is just normal human behaviour. No, I do not think people like Jambat or Marz do this, I think they belong in category 1.

4: Some of the members of this forum may work for the companies that produce pheromones. If you manufacture say PI, how hard would it be to register a name and write some good hit stories. A few hours of work, and you have just increased your sales by 10%. It would be bad business sense not to do it.

[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: ironration ]

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 05:25 AM
iron: you have some good points, but unless you have actually tried any of these products, i dont know if you would be able judge a difference in how people respond to you ( you never said one way or the other in your email )....if you think i am making up all this, then that is your option, fortunately, for my sake, im not...i love this forum because it enables us to share our good experiences with like minded people...i am of average looks, rather short, and havent had the greatest of luck with women since i turned 30, and i can honestly say that the products bruce offers here have changed my life....PI works, but its not the only product that does, there are others such as jb#1, AE, andro1 the list goes on, ( i can assure you i dont work for any of these companies, ha, wish i had a job that exciting, plus i could use the employee discounts )....to sum it up, honest skeptiscm is normal, but there must be somthing that attracts you here or you wouldnt be reading them?? try the products, you may find yourself just as excited adn enthusiastic about them as i am...!!!

jamesdeanmartin
05-08-2002, 05:30 AM
I have gotten and continue to get hits in \"real life\" which is all I really need. I read other people\'s hit stories for maybe some background or ideas of things to try, but ultimately one way or the other it doesn\'t matter to me.

ironration
05-08-2002, 05:40 AM
I dont mean to insult anyone. I am just a natural skeptic. I have tried PI and SOE, with different doses and in combination. I have done everything from just one dab of SOE to 4 drops of PI (overdose).

No reactions from women, men, children or animals images/icons/smile.gif No reaction from people on the train, bus or at work. Has anyone tried PI and SOE without any effect, and then had positive reactions from any other product of combo?

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 06:15 AM
IRON: thats strange that you havent gotten any results...there was a time when i wasnt getting any, but i was oding big time and couldnt smell the stuff....maybe thats your problem?? plus, maybe your expectations are too high.... member mones work on an unconcious level..unless you approach women, the most you will get will be the eye contact, stares, what have you...but you still have to do the work..it just gives ya a big big advantage..hehe...but im sure if you keep trying somethign will click for you....

jose
05-08-2002, 06:31 AM
SOE and Andro 4.2 never gave me any good results, like I always say some products won\'t work for some people. I always had confidence before Pheromones, but I could never close the deal on some of these women I\'ve dated. PI and AE got me laid a couple of times, even a woman I met on a first date(I was wearing AE) that\'s no lie. You do have to have social skills and at least look decent(clothes and good hygiene), have a nice personality(funny and cocky). That all factors in to the end result, you have to put yourself out there and get noticed. images/icons/tongue.gif I usually don\'t have any good solid stories because I don\'t wear my products every day(only on weekends and social events)but when I do I post it here.

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 06:48 AM
ironration :

Let me share my story with you, When I first used pheromones was in a super-skeptical state, and I didn´t had any hits, but I kept using anyway, and I have found the following:

- Never use pheros if not in a good mood, bad reactions.
- Pheros don´t work for most woman at one time, but do work on another time and when they work.....
- I´ve found later that some women apparently with no reaction, where \"dying\" to react, maybe shyness, maybe intimidation, maybe socio-cultural behavior....
- Pheros don´t work on my dog
- Pheros do work on me
- pure -none is too much for me, I\'m already on the \"Clint Estwood\" side.
- Pheros work much better in people not close to you.
- Pheros are not a magical potion but definitely give you a edge when used at the appropriate occasions.

This is my experience, results may be different for others, i´m a Engineer, 38 y, 6\'0.4\'\' whith no relation whatsoever with the pheromone industry.

Whitehall
05-08-2002, 07:46 AM
Yes, I too suspect an embellishment of some of the positive hit stories. It\'s like the cave men drawing a picture of a successful hunt.

I\'m of a skeptical nature too, always looking to see what the angle is. I\'m capable of dispassionate and analytical observation of the behavior of others.

That said, pheromones do have an effect on other peoples\' behavior and on one\'s own mood and attitude. I\'ve see it, I\'ve tested it, and I\'ve double tested it.

Oh yea, and I\'ve benefited from them. images/icons/wink.gif

If you\'re still doubtful, save your money.

[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: Whitehall ]

Lee
05-08-2002, 08:24 AM
This is a good thread, similar to my \"is it placebo\" thread but worded way better than what I posted.

I think pheromones work very subtle way. I mean, I don\'t doubt the power of the jambat mixes but head whipping and staring does not mean they are attracted to you so I don\'t count that as hits.

What I do count as a hit is if someone walks up and initiates a conversation with another and that person reacts in a very positive way. Then again, this could be because you are good looking with good people skills. But with pheros, it does give that marginal edge in determining whether your impression is good or bad.

My experience with pheros so far does show that when I do initiate communication with others, the reaction is very good and if it\'s someone you meet again after you met them once, they remember you big time. So maybe some people are getting laid and some aren\'t but I can say that when the pheros work, you can at least become very popular amongst people, as long as your willing to take some small risks in putting yourself out there.

This is a very materialistic society, the US at least. If you\'re not good looking, your chances are way slimmer even though you have a jambat mix, it\'s the reality of life. Think of the ugliest man or woman you know, or have seen walking around somewhere. Do you really think that even if they wore the strongest sex potion in the planet that you would even be slightly attracted to them? The only shot they have with you is if they approached and talked to you and you saw something in them that makes you think that talking to them is worth while...*cough*..pheros...

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 08:44 AM
i agree that looks probably play a definite part in success with mones...if youre really fat, ugly or disgusting...prolly wont work too well..mones are tools like any other self improvement thing people do for themselves...i also think some people are much much better at reading unconcious body language than others..however, a woman is going to size up a potiental mate by several factors, and the mones are probably a bigger part than we realize...for those of you out there who havent had success with them...dont give up..its a tool like anything else that can work to your advantage

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 09:15 AM
Ironration makes some very valid points. Often, I have thought about the very same things. The last point you state makes very clear sense.

Iron you seem like an intelegent guy, in my expirience intelegence and confidence dont always go hand in hand. Phero use, if it does or doesnt work means nothing if you dont have confidence.

The fact of the matter is, people dont need pheros to get laid, or find a partner. Pheros are just fun, if they percieve to work, well thats good for the wearer.

I think some claims of the manufacturers that say pheros will work, get you dates, blah blah....they feed on peoples insecurities and weakness.

You start from the base up and build your confidence and be happy with whom you are, pheros should come last in the equation as just fun experimentation. I see it as a hobby. Time waster.

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 11:14 AM
ironration,
I agree with your points.

I myself do not buy the \"pheros don\'t work for everyone\" statement because if pheros are natural in everyone to attract mates than why shouldn\'t pheros work for everyone??
I prefer to think that you need to try maybe 20 different doses and combos before you determine it doesn\'t work. There is no way that trying 20 or a 1000 more doses or combos will maximize YOUR own phero power.
If pheros were like the hair on your head, you would know exactly what length (amount) and hair style (product or combo) to have (put on) to attract the most positive attention.


Curious Dude

Whitehall
05-08-2002, 11:40 AM
In the US, we\'ve deliberately created a society where there are winners and losers - and winners get the rewards. We were a leader with the breakup of the welfare state and its rewarding losers for their existence. That has helped us become THE world power. I\'ve read one economist say we\'ve gone to a \"winner take all\" system.

That also means that losers get less of the pie. That is supposed to motivate us all to do better, work harder, etc. Women are very sensitive to the winner/loser differentials. They try harder too to land that \"great catch.\"

All in all, the US is much more Darwinian than it used to be. Maybe too much so and the pendulum will swing back. In the meantime. it\'s truly a jungle out there. There\'s not much spoils left for non-competitors.

That said, ugly guys get laid too! I know, I\'ve had five kids and they\'re all as ugly as me.

jamesdeanmartin
05-08-2002, 02:59 PM
Iron - I\'ve had no success at all with PI. I went through about 4 months of using it almost exclusively, and it really never did anything for me. I tried NPA last month and really didn\'t draw any hits from it. I\'ll probably try both again, eventually.

I\'ve gained mild success with Soe, it gets the girls chatty, but I generally use it for business deals more than looking for sexual partners.

The Edge and A1 have produced by far the best results for me. Also the SPMO musk oil seems to be working well.

All this being said, I think science currently only knows about 10-20% of what it needs to know about pheromones, and so often it is somewhat of a guessing game. Time will tell.

JDM

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 03:32 PM
Mr sceptic

Wonderfull - I don\'t think they work either. At least not in the way that it\'s \"punted\". When I first started \"playing\" with these substances, I considered, and still do consider that It could all be \"sympathetic magic\", to coin a phrase. I tried a few products - some snake oil, some with a fair scientific reputation for \"mood alteration\". Careful observation will, I consider, convince that some change in behaviour does occur in some people exposed to these chemicals. That said, whether it is actually worth the financial investment, to experience this, is another matter. This board proves that enough people are at least interested enough to find out for themselves. Also, if purchasing \"belief\" achieves the desired goal, then surely it\'s mission accomplished...

Boomshankah!

[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: ratspeaker ]

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 06:37 PM
Good points but I\'ve always looked the same and I\'ve always had confidence. But see the difference is this. When I used to try to ask women to dance or approach them they wanted nothing to do with me (like I was some kind of leaper) now I walk in a place women pull me into their little bachelorette parties and the last time I went out a woman started dancing with me before I could take my coat off.

I\'m a short guy and in these clubs the tall guys have it made, but now I\'m getting chicks that come to me for dances. And I know because I went to clubs with and without pheros and there is a big difference. Not to mention without pheros a woman will dance with me for maybe two songs at best, when I wear pheros they dance with me for four or five songs.

Some even give me their numbers. And dudes do try to bond with me. They come over and start talking to me about stuff I really don\'t even be caring about. It\'s a whole different world dude. And I don\'t do anything different. I walk in the club and get ready to dance.

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 07:11 PM
jambat: thank you for your imput!! i am the same as you in that regard, and the same stuff that happens to you happens with me...i mean, i used to walk into a club and nobody would give a rats ass if i was there or not, now, they do try to pull me into their bachelorette groups and do seem to notice me and give me the time of day...and hey, jambat #1 pulls in major hits!!

a.k.a.
05-08-2002, 08:27 PM
I think pheromones work exceptionally well for some, not at all for others, and reasonably well for most. The typical bell curve.

Being on the “works like magic” end of the curve, and reading posts from guys that get no results, makes me anxious at times. I wonder if one day the spell will be broken. So I try to think of logical explanations for why some guys have no luck.

I’ve come to the conclusion that, among the guys having consistently bad luck, there must be something COUNTERACTING the effect of the pheromones. I’ve placed PI on a paper towel and seen women react to that. Also I’ve been following truth’s posts and have noticed that he applies mostly to clothing — with minimal to no results. So my notion is that some guys natural phero signature is somehow jamming the airwaves and not letting the mones do their stuff.

To the extent that fear and stress pheromones are responsible, I think attitude and confidence plays a very big role. I wouldn’t be surprised if diet and exercise had something to do with it as well. But I guess it’s reasonable to assume that there might be something genetic involved as well.

I’ve been reading posts from Asian guys that report poor results. So maybe it would be helpful to get a brief biographical blurb from everybody.

I come from a Mediterranean gene pool. I’m 43, average looks (lately people have been saying that I look a lot like Stephen Spielberg), slim build, short, very sociable, exercise regularly, vegetarian diet, avoid processed foods,use natural soaps, dietary supplements = ginko, garlic, a whole food multivitamin-mineral complex called “Every Man II” (good stuff for an old man’s prostate), and echinacea during flu season.

Watcher
05-08-2002, 09:09 PM
Truths about humans.

1 We sweat and we do stink (bad BO causes people to become upset - all androgen substances breakdown to none as a last level.

2 Women do like to get close to men and \"sniff\" why this behaviour would have a purpose other than some sort of pheromonal origin ( i would like a idea on any other sources of this type of behaviour)

3 Work out and then sniff under youre armpits what do you smell - well its quite weird and can get one sort of high.

4 Why do women like to get hot and sweaty with guys when having sex (they must get a stronger production of androgens going.)

5 Most of the animal kingdon has some sort of scent based attraction going - if you look at the science we are direct descandents.

6 Pheros make play a lesser role than some of the stories here, a minute but still interesting role in human behaviour

7 Have you ever noticed two guys about to have a fight they size each other up and the breathing gets more intense. - Could it be that they are trying to gather information about the other persons physical state through a pheromonal \"natural signature\"

8 WHY THE HELL HAVE PEOPLE USED \"PERFUMES\' for centuries - heck it is a massive industry with all sorts of fragrences to make us smell good and colonges as well (could it be that up till now noone really knew why that was - we could have the magic bullet now)

9 We use deordorants to cover up our natural production so that this allows calmer social interactions in large groups or to avoid smelling bad \"WHY mr iron\"

10 As far as hit stories well if we do look good then women come to us because they have associated this with a pheromonal type that is good male material.

Any other points that I have left out are open ot further discussion as this thread develops and thanks we need a sceptic to get things going again its getting kind of lifeless around here.

But take note the perfume and drug industries are very very interested and are conducting and investing massive amounts of time and money into this field-why would this be if it was all Bullshit in the first place.

Youre response would be appreciated.

DD out.

camusflage
05-08-2002, 09:13 PM
Iron:
I started out with SoE and TE a few months ago. To date, I haven\'t had a \"come fuck me now\" response, but that hasn\'t been what I\'ve gone after. In fact, on only one occasion have I worn more -none than -nol, and while it was interesting, it\'s much more useful to me to have -nol\'s effects.

It\'s not a sure thing. I think everyone is different. Think about it like cologne on a whole new level. Fragrances wear differently on different people. Myself, I tend towards the lighter and sweeter than the darker and heavier. To this end, experimentation is called for in ratio, amount, application point, and carrier. All of these can enhance or diminish particular effects. After two months of experimentation, I\'ve narrowed down some mixes and amounts that produce desired results. Now, those results may work for me and me only. I\'ve tried a few that have been put up by others, and haven\'t had the same results. That doesn\'t mean it\'s a failure or that pheros are a crock--it just means it\'s not the right thing for me in that situation.

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 09:39 PM
If there are some phero marketers acting as testimonials on the forum, they are definitely in the minority. I sense a lot of sincerity on the forum. =). I\'d be surprised if most posters aren\'t real people sharing their experiences.

I am very perplexed by the convincing stories, as well as variability in results between people and products. However, I think there must be reasons for these differences (personality, looks, location, contact, etc.). In fact, I had suggested that those who don\'t care to remain anonymous to post pictures of themselves, so we can get a better idea of what might be going on. =). I think if we all knew each other personally, we\'d likely have a better understanding of what\'s going on. Unfortunately, we\'re a bunch of anonymous guys reporting hits, sharing ideas, but we don\'t have a good grasp of each others social interactions outside of the forum.

jvkohl
05-08-2002, 09:45 PM
Mammalian, including human, pheromones cause changes in the hormone levels of other people. Given the link between hormones and behavior, there can no longer be any doubt that human pheromones affect human behavior.

If anyone wanted to promote a particular product using an assumed name/identity, this could be done. However, in this Forum, I\'m relatively certain such a person would be \"found\" out. While I can be expected to promote SOE when possible, I\'ve seen no others who consistently focus their comments so that they always favor SOE. Quite the contrary, there is always mention of mixes, different products for different situations etc. Simply put, this is exactly what one would expect--diversity in use and in responses/responsiveness. Variations from a smile, to getting laid--attributed to pheromonal enhancement.

Some people need more enhancement than others. Donald ducks comments/list, along with many others are good. Skepticism is one thing, but ignoring scientific evidence and hit reporting that goes along with the scientific evidence seems too skeptical. Might be better to hang out here and learn more. For example, the hair flips are quite commonly measured as a means to evaluate a woman\'s level of interest. This follows studies by Timothy Perper and Monica Moore on body language.

Still, I understand a skeptical approach. Even I was skeptical, until only recently, of reported results from pheromones. But even after I\'ve had results, and seen so much reporting of results, I continue to focus efforts on body-building, and other appearance altering means. Have gone from lots of hair to a buzz cut, for example, and experimented with maintaining facial hair, as opposed to a clean-shaven approach. No tattoos, yet. You get the point; there\'s so much we can do to enhance our sex appeal; pheromones are a part of it--and probably a large part given our animalistic heritage. I say olfaction and pheromones are primary; and most researchers didn\'t agree until recently. They had been taught that visual input matters most. But in the absence of olfaction/pheromones visual input is meaningless.

Enough, if you get the chance, check out my Neuroendocrinology Letters (NEL) publication, it\'s available on-line, or take a look around my website: . Also, Karl Grammer et al, have an article in press for the next issue of NEL that\'s titled \"The Scent of Fear.\" I\'m pretty sure they will deal with the scent/dominance link in this article.

PHP 87
05-08-2002, 10:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ironration:
I dont mean to insult anyone. I am just a natural skeptic. I have tried PI and SOE, with different doses and in combination. I have done everything from just one dab of SOE to 4 drops of PI (overdose).

No reactions from women, men, children or animals images/icons/smile.gif No reaction from people on the train, bus or at work. Has anyone tried PI and SOE without any effect, and then had positive reactions from any other product of combo?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


How many women have you approached and under what circumstances?

Don\'t expect women to attack you like in those old \"Hai Karate\" commercials from the 70\'s - that\'s not how pheromones work.

I can\'t remember which forum member wrote the following quote, but it says it all: \"Pheromones help those who help themselves\"

Watcher
05-08-2002, 10:34 PM
Also if you have had relationships sex etc.

Explain if you like you are \"anoymous\" anyway, how this went about body langugae associated behaviours (youre need to be close to a woman) the testostrone aggressiveness rush associated with her cheating on you if it has happened.

PHEROMONES AFFECT OTHER PEOPLE HORMONE LEVELS AS THEY BREATHE IT IN IT CAUSES CHANGES IN THEIR HORMONAL LEVELS AND THIS DETERMINES MOST PEOPLES BEHAVIOUR AND WILL ALSO HAVE AN EFFECT ON YOURESELF AS WELL

How many times do we associate teenage years to increased hormonal levels and the coming of age sexual development. Pheromones are the trigger which affects other peoples response. The male female interaction the choosing of a mate and also receptive/ignorant behaviour, we have the knowledge of the means now so a response would be appreciated mr iron.

And then the decline in hormonal levels around menopause in women and the lessening of sexual interest behaviour i think we have discovered an important piece of the whole puzzle, no weird it may sounds to some.

**DONOTDELETE**
05-08-2002, 11:36 PM
Hmm... It seems like those who report no reponse are all single looking for someone. A lot of you on the forum use pheros on your girlfriend or spouse, and I haven\'t heard any no responses there. =)

ironration
05-09-2002, 06:49 AM
Thank for the input. Lots of interesting arguments images/icons/smile.gif

Personally, I do not doubt that natural pheromones play some role when we select a partner. However, that does not mean that the different products containing pheromones work at all.

One factor when selecting a partner is the quality of the immune system that the future offspring would get. If I understand it correctly pheromones play a major part in detecting this.

For example: Woman A + Man B = Good immune system in offspring. Woman B + Man B = good immune system. Woman A + Man B = bad immune system.

So, if pheromones are used to detect immune systems that when combined with our own are good, how could a generic phero in a bottle work? It would only work on a small fraction of the women - the ones with a compatible immune system. What advantage does this give us compared our own natural pheromones?

[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: ironration ]

[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: ironration ]

jvkohl
05-09-2002, 08:50 PM
Immune system choice follows male/female choice. The effect is largely in female\'s choice for genetic diversity in males. But how do they initially assess male versus female, and further--more reproductively fit males from their lesser counterparts. The answer is in the expression of testosterone levels, which are readily assessed by testosterone metabolites expressed as male pheromones. The reason a pheromone product containing androgen (e.g., testosterone) metabolites should work is because it enhances the male\'s natural production of androgen metabolites--using additives that are already metabolized.

You may want to use interlibrary loan to get a copy of The Scent of Eros. I think the book explains a lot, and would help you to avoid the more commonly asked questions--even though at times its good for others to be reminded of how pheromones \"work.\"

**DONOTDELETE**
05-09-2002, 10:37 PM
Mr. Kohl: i was fortunate enough to borrow a copy of \"the scent of eros\" from my local library, and i consider it the absolute best book i have ever ever read on the subject of mones...you sir, are a genius!! thank you for writing it!! i highly recommend it to everyone out there, not a boring book by any means fi youre interested really in how much a part of our lives pheromones really are, highly recommended!! thank you again

**DONOTDELETE**
05-09-2002, 10:38 PM
Mr. Kohl: i was fortunate enough to borrow a copy of \"the scent of eros\" from my local library, and i consider it the absolute best book i have ever ever read on the subject of mones...you sir, are a genius!! thank you for writing it!! i highly recommend it to everyone out there, not a boring book by any means fi youre interested really in how much a part of our lives pheromones really are, highly recommended!! thank you again