Pheromone Gene

[Teak]

I remember reading somewhere that there is meant to be a gene that is related to pheromones (detecting them?). Anyhow, noticed this article today and just wanted to hear peoples comments on it. It\'s negative article about pheromones, which makes a change. It is suggesting while the VNO might be present, the gene that encodes the ion channel is nonfunctional in humans:
http://www.worcesterphoenix.com/archive/features/99/07/02/PHEREMONES.html (\"http://www.worcesterphoenix.com/archive/features/99/07/02/PHEREMONES.html\")

[Watcher]

I suggest you follow james v kohls theroies at . He is saying that the VNO is probably fairly inactive but the reaction to pheromones actually is a direct hormonal response instead of a reaction through the VNO.

The VNO theroy tends to be the popular one but one that has been floating around and keeps being the focus when something else needs to be looked at.

[jvkohl]

Very good Dducks; Berliner\'s group continues to promote VNO-active pheromones, while nearly everyone else is starting to look at the hormonal response as the key indicator of pheromone activity. That\'s because regardless of VNO activity, other mammals respond hormonally and behaviorally to pheromones, which makes it extremely likely that we do, too.

[Teak]

Interesting. What concerns me is that previous studies must of supposedly confirmed pheromones having an effect on the VNO. For example, Erox quote (\"http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/pheromones.html\") some studies done on the human VNO, noticing electrical reponses when exposed to pheromones. Is the VNO a grey area? I mean if it\'s a case of either it works or doesn\'t work then all the studies done before are suspect or assumptions were made and they came to the wrong conclusion without investigating (and disproving) other possible ways pheromones might effect humans.

If it is a grey area and still kind of works to a degree or in only some people, is it possible the VNO in animals is the primary pathway, with hormonal being secondary. Where as us humans have developed and the VNO has become less important and thus hormonal has become the primary pathway for pheromones?

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: Teak ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Does the VNO work I don\'t know but let me tell you that I have been experimenting in close quarters with PI and PI/w. I have been purposely wearing these with when I get my deep tissue massage. The last response which I saw as a direct correlation to the nose was when she had my wrist in her hand(applied there and behind ears) and she started laughing stopped what she was doing and put her nose right where I applied the mones and continued to laugh. I don\'t know but something tells me she was picking up the mones. This is someone I have seen before mones and this never happened before. The first time I wore them there my appt. went over time for the first time since I had been going to her. The nose knows. images/icons/wink.gif

[Teak]

For the benefit of others, the human gene in question is:

http://www.rockefeller.edu/pubinfo/mombaerts082800.nr.html (\"http://www.rockefeller.edu/pubinfo/mombaerts082800.nr.html\")
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>
The gene, called V1RL1 (V1R-like gene-1), encodes a protein that shares amino acid similarity with the mouse and rat pheromone receptors.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Other webpages mentioning it include:
http://archive.nandotimes.com/noframes/story/0,2107,500244246-500361343-502121582-0 ,00.html (\"http://archive.nandotimes.com/noframes/story/0,2107,500244246-500361343-502121582-0,00.html\") http://www.discover.com/sep_99/breakfollies.html (\"http://www.discover.com/sep_99/breakfollies.html\")
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/gene282.shtml (\"http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/gene282.shtml\")
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/94/6/01_7_m.html (\"http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/94/6/01_7_m.html\") http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/pheromone000828.html (\"http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/pheromone000828.html\") http://gnn.tigr.org/articles/08_00/human_pheromone.shtml (\"http://gnn.tigr.org/articles/08_00/human_pheromone.shtml\") http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/02.07/01-mice.html (\"http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/02.07/01-mice.html\")

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: Teak ]

[Irish]

The big question seems to be the link from airborne pheromones to the human target\'s brain for an effect. Are they processed by the main olfactory system (smell), a VNO, both, neither? Directly through the target\'s skin or nasal membrane (seems unlikely). Pheros aren\'t magic - there must be a pathway if they work for humans.

My understanding is that in most mammals the VNO is highly specialized to sense and process pheros from others in its own species, while the main olfactory system is a broader-ranging detector designed for more general sensing. The two systems are wired to different areas of the brain, the VNO is not hooked up to the conscious area of the brain. There can be some overlapping and mediating of function (some experiments show pheros are handled by both systems in some cases in some animals). Also some behavior released by VNO function can be conditioned to be released by associated odors sensed by smell (e.g., naïve animals that can\'t mate when VNO is removed, but experienced individuals can still mate after VNO removal).

Anyway, there\'s less controversy concerning animals cause the \'wiring\' of the VNO to the brain is clearly observed and studied - there\'s a clear pathway from stimulant(phero)-sensor(VNO)-connection(nerves)-processor(brain)-effect. They don\'t seem to be able to show such a clear complete path for humans.

There\'s no controversy that human VNO exist in fetuses before birth (do they have a role for the unborn??), and declining controversy about whether they exist in all normal adults. There\'s nerves in the vicinity, but I haven\'t read a conclusive report that the human VNO is actually hooked up to the brain. I tend to believe there is a connection, but I haven\'t read the proof. That\'s why some say it doesn\'t work in humans.

I\'m willing to take the engineering approach of ignoring the details and observing the gross effects, but I am still bothered by those who poo-poo the VNO - but can\'t give an alternate explanation of how pheros might work. The reason I want to know the general pathway is that it affects how I wear them.

If phero-sensing is through the VNO then I don\'t care about covering the smell - they will be sensed even though the conscious odor is masked by cologne. But if there\'s no VNO path and pheros are sensed only by the main olfactory system, then I have questions. Can the main olfactory system unconsciously process odors - in which case it would be ok to mask them with cologne. If it can\'t, then covering the odor of pheros would make them useless through that pathway - you\'d have to perceive them to get an effect.

If other pathways like through the skin or directly absorbed through the nasal membrane are the answer, then I should attempt to make physical contact or distribute more airborne molecules of the stuff. (I don\'t think this is a valid pathway - just for the sake of argument).

Anyway, wearing them the way we do seems to work, but why is it so hard for anyone to explicitly explain how pheros are sensed and processed for effect in humans? I understand Erox\'s vested interest in a functioning VNO - but that doesn\'t automatically make them wrong. All I ask is for is a reasonable explanation of how an airborne particle is changing brain function. Is the particle sensed and amplified by the MO system/and-or VNO for processing by the brain, or absorbed directly by the recipient for a druglike effect, or whatever. If the pathway is through the MOS only, then I need to know that masking the odor with cologne does not kill the effect.