DIY athena from DHEA?

[Nutt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR> Gents
Athena are \"reputed\" to favour using DHEA as a \"phero\". If this is so, it would be cheaper to extract it from the DHEA pills sold \"over the counter\" in USA. Extract it from a few grams worth of pills and try it. An experiment that costs very little!

Boomshankah!
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Posted by ratspeaker


OK, so what if ratspeaker is right? I doubt the effectiveness of DHEA as a pheromone ( I believe it\'s a hormone precursor in human physiology) but I’m willing to bet a couple of you guys take DHEA anyway, and it would be an interesting experiment. Can’t see how it should pose any legal implications to play with so why not give it a whirl?

Now, I don’t know much about Athena’s products or how people have rated there effects but how would one go about mobilizing the DHEA molecules in air? I guess you would want to crush them into a fine powder and soak in an alcohol for a while to apply it as a slandered phero right?

Athena may of course do other things with the DHEA , but if they claim its an active component then its got to be the same thing, and the carrier is the only problem for our experimental purposes right?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Can DHEA convert to other -none, -nol, etc. on skin?

Given that -none is kind of expensive per gram, maybe you can convert a cheaper androgen into -none fairly readily.

[xvs]

Athena don\'t claim to be using anything in particular. They won\'t say.

JVK, in a usenet message from a long time ago (1994?) said he thought they were using DHEA sulfate.

I think this is unlikely because DHEA sulfate is unstable and requires refrigeration. The Athena people specifically state that 10X will last over a year with no refrigeration.

[Whitehall]

Now this is an interesting idea!

The Theory:

Since DHEA is known as the internal precursor to many, if not all, sex steroids and since the skin is known to affect changes in steriods and modify pheromones, therefore DHEA directly on the skin MIGHT get modified into pheromones on the skin.

The Test:

Take an 10 ml of Everclear, empty four capsules of DHEA (100 mg at 25 mg/cap) into the EtOH, let sit for 24 hours or until dissolved. Filter as necessary.

If all the DHEA goes into solution (doubtful) , you\'d have 10 mg / ml, or 10 times the chem set concentrations. That may be greater concentration then we\'d want but a good place to start.

Apply to various locations on the body - neck, armpits, belly, gonads(?), chest - since different parts of the skin have different enzymes and bacteria. I\'d keep the option of showering open if the experiment went bad or too good.

Now I have used lotions and creams containing DHEA - usually they are for women to apply to the vaginal area. The idea is that they convert to estrogens in the local tissues - they do make dandy lubricants too and have some local stimulant effects on the tissues (I\'m told.) Haven\'t noticed any pheromone production but the concetrations are low and the locations specific. The best is called \"Dermal-XL\"

[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: Whitehall ]

[jvkohl]

DHEA converts both to androgens and to estrogens; it is a \"buffer\" hormone. Cutler said on a national TV show that she was using DHEA (or its sulfate-I can\'t recall), then subsequently clammed up about any active ingredient. (I videotaped the show, and still have a copy somewhere, as well as the transcript. Even back then, I had serious doubts about her claims, and wanted evidence that she was making bizarre claims.)

Clive Jennings-White (Erox/Pherin chemist) checked for VNO activity on exposure to DHEA and found nothing. (Not that this means anything). Cutler has published once and had others publish once \"stories\" that her \"pheromones\" are effective. Both studies/stories have been disregarded by most other researchers, since the substance tested is not named, and the results are questionable. I don\'t know anyone who takes Cutler seriously--even her former colleagues from Monell. In my opinion, she gives pheromone science a bad name.

[Whitehall]

So here\'s the specifics of the experiment so far.

Thursday evening 5/2

Took 20 ml of warm 50% EtOH ( Smirnoff\'s Silver label, 100 proof) in a amber bottle and emptied four capsules of DHEA capsules at 25 mg each. Other ingredient in the caps is rice powder.

My plan is to filter through a coffee filter Saturday to remove the rice powder then use as a spray on various clean skin areas. I\'ll check for pheromone odors over the course of a day to sense any changes in aroma.

By clean I mean areas that have been washed since prior pheromone applications. I ought to give my skin a few days rest with regular showering to give a \"natural\" substrate but I\'m out and about Friday night. Maybe I\'ll start on virgin territory first.

[Nutt]

Should be interesting, especially the idea of the DHEA getting converted to pheros, do you have an opinion on whether this is likely JVK? I would doubt it, but as I said in the first post, the whole thing defiantly deserves some experimentation.

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[Whitehall]

One issue with dermal application of DHEA is that one could expect the DHEA to cross the skin barrier and enter the system. A number of pro-steroid products use transdermal application via alcohol to get androstenediol into the system. Biotest\'s Androsol is one. The ethanol or isopropyl alcohol helps force the steriods through the outer skin layers.

Hence, applying large or frequent DHEA doses for pheromone production would mean that one could reduce the other DHEA intakes one might have.

Also, I can think of only two measures of DHEA conversion on the skin - smell and hits. The smell tests will be most useful at first. I think one can increase the sensitivity by spraying one forearm with DHEA and the other with a comparable dose of, say, NPA or Andro-1. That way one has a control scent for comparison. If the DHEA passes this test then field testing for hits would follow.

Any other suggestions for testing?

[jvkohl]

DHEA on the skin may get converted to pheromones, but I think this is unlikely. Also, despite dermal application in alcohol, I can\'t imagine that much gets into the bloodstream. With hormone replacement therapy, for example, 5 grams of testosterone is applied in a gel; the resultant increase in serum testosterone as measured in milligrams is at best a 500 mg increase, which doesn\'t last long before declining (after 2 hours).

It makes more sense to me to use DHEA as a supplement if you intend to try and increase natural pheromone production. DHEA metabolizes to androsterone and etiocholanolone, and ratios of these two primary metabolites vary in males and females, as well as with sexual orientation in homosexual males.