Oil or Alcohol base???

[aaron]

I recall reading somewhere that alcohol denatures pheromones, which is why it is preferably to use an oil base as a carrier. Can someone clear this up for me.

Also, if alcohol does denature pheromones, surely using cologne, eau de toilette and aftershave would have a detrimental effect to the intended reaction you want to elicit.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The pheros talked about here are based on steriodal compounds (except cops, but that is another story.) The alcohol doesn\'t hurt the pheros, if it did, you\'d expect all of the big name suppliers (JVK, Stone Labs, and more...) not to use it in their products. The only oil based product out there is PI (well, totally oil, that is.) Also, pheros do not denature, proteins do. My humble opinion is not to worry about the alcohol in the products.

[PHP 87]

The \"alcohol destroys pheromones\" myth is usually spread by sellers of oil-based pheromones.

Those sellers usually also make outrageous claims about what there own products can do as well.

[aaron]

That\'s great to hear. I can continue using my Borsalino EDT and aftershave, though after it\'s all gone, can anyone recommend a good colgne. Drakkar Noir was always a favourite, but now unavailable in the uk...is Issy Miyagi nice?

[oscar]

aaron,

I used to plug Issey Miyake so much that you would have thought that I was getting a commission on it. It IS a great phero mixer.
However, I\'ve since discovered Acqua di Gio by Giorgio Armani, which is in the same vein as Issey, but actually suits me a bit more.
Plus, while I\'ve never seen Issey samples of any kind, there are small AdG sample atomizers available at department stores.

An important tip for cologne buying: Don\'t spray something on yourself and immediately decide that this is \"IT\"! Wear it for several hours (before buying) to see if it agrees with your body chemistry. Some stuff that goes well on one person may go sour on another. I had this experience with Paul Sebastien. Smelled good at first, but went nasty after two or three hours.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Another awesome cologne IMHO is Calvin Klein\'s Escape. The fragrance blends SO well with TE and NPA, and it lasts and lasts. I\'ve found it quite enjoyable to take deep breaths of my clothes hours after applying TE and Escape. You can get small bottles (1/2 oz) on Ebay for about $10. If you want to try it out that is.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I prefer the alcohol/ethanol base over oil because people here say that it mixes better with cologne. However, when I mixed AE and SOE into cologne, I got no signs of the fragrance separating. Of course, since everything is clear, it might be hard to tell (?). I sort of wish the pheros contained a hint of blue dye, so I can verify that it dissolved completely. Maybe, I worry too much...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m sure someone will correct me if I\'m wrong images/icons/crazy.gif but if I remember correctly, neither AE nor SOE are oil based - they are -glycol based. The glycol will mix quite nicely with EtOH.

Bruce:

I\'ve ordered 2 returned bottles of PI. The first appeared to be -glycol based (it dissolved in EtOH), the second appeared to be in mineral oil. Does that seem correct?

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: BassMan ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I guess I never got a good understanding of the different solvents (i.e., oil, alcohol, ethanol, EtOH, glycol, etc.). I don\'t even know if some of these are different names for the same thing. Can someone very knowledgeable comment on the basics of solvents? I guess info relevant to us would be viscosity, mixability, phero release rate, how long it lasts on skin/clothing, etc.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Truth, anything with an -ol at the end of it is an alcohol. Yes antifreeze (ethylene glycol) is an alcohol, very similar to glycerine (or glycerol for the techies) All of these compounds are soluble in water (at least the ones you will find used in these discussions) and have different solubilities of organics (ie pheros)

Release rates do not depend on the solvent, more of a temp thing, I am sure I have noted this before. I will note that the pheros are more at home in oil, so a drop of PI may last longer, simply because you have added oil to the skin (which is full of oil, but more might change things.) I have wondered about the skin vs. clothes argument, and quite honestly, the pheros disperse quicker from the skin (higher relative temp.) I like to use both for maxing out my phero cloud. But, I would like to say, that any sort of speculation about how this happens has no feet to stand on. Depeche Mode said, \"People are people...\" and in this circumstance I think they got it right. There is no answer, just a lot of happen-stance, and a lot of good times by people who have found the \"zone.\"

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: Walter Mitty ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey guys,
What I don\'t get is, that are you supposed to mix this stuff with cologne, or you just put two drops of PI in your wrists, and then you spray some Acqua Di Gio Cologne in your clothes. Does it make a differnce if you mix them together, or if you have put pheros and cologne in different spots?

By the way, is it a good Idea if I mix the whole bottle of PI(m) into my 3.4oz bottle of cologne Acqua Di Gio. Is it going to work if I pour the whole thing there, or I need to have the exact amount of each substance mixed otherwise it won\'t have any effect?

Thanks,
albus

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, do not mix the PI into an alcohol solution. This will not work. Alcohol (ethanol, EtOH) will dissolve a small amount of oil. In general it is less than a mg/mL. If you need any idea about what this looks like, andro-1 in a crystal form will dissolve into alcohol at a mg/mL. But, before the EtOH is added, there appears to be about 5 salt granules that equal 5 mg. Point being, it is an extremely small amount. If you have the phero kit, or any one else around here does, you\'ll notice that there are very fine crystals at the bottom of the solution. It is basically saturated at 1 mg/mL. The crystals will dissolve if you hold the bottle in your hand for a minute or two. So you are at the limit at that conc in EtOH. Don\'t worry about the temp of your hand, it is not near the danger point thermally for pheros. In general, pheros and phero-like molecules are not that keen on straight organics (oils, hexanes...) or hydrophilic molecules (water, salt solutions, buffers...) Alcohols are sort of in between these two worlds. The bigger alcohols (poly-ols) like glycerin (or glycerol, they are the same thing,) and di-propylene-glycol tend to be able to dissolve more due to a larger fraction of the solvent being organic (in the O-chem sense of the word,) but are used less because their viscosity increases with the size of the molecule. To get them to work out of an atomizer, you have to warm it up first.

I\'d also like to point out that even though a lot of the products are designed to be mixed with aromas, this is not a steadfast rule. Let us assume that you have your favorite phero mix (in EtOH,) and your favorite cologne (also EtOH based,) The two will mix on your skin. The EtOH evaporates quickly, while the oils in the cologne won\'t, neither will the pheros. I have read some poeple mention about how the aroma of choice matures as the bottle gets used. This is basically the loss of the low boilers (GC slang for molecules that go into vapor phase at a lower temperature) The EtOH will be gone first (within a minute or so,) then the rest. So layering pheros with cologne, rather than mixing the two in the first place, should not be any different. Actually, it probably affords you more control in your application preferences.

OK, I think I have probably put most people off this subject with that rant images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Walter. I learned something from your post. I\'ve been thinking that covering cologne with phero would keep the pheros from dispersing, but your argument that the EtOH (most of the solution) will evaporate first, makes sense to me. I guess in the end, you get essentially a concentrated mix, whether you dilute the mix or not. That\'s what you\'re saying, right?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yep, so a concentrated mix spread over a smaller area should last longer than a dilute mix spread over a large area, right? Hmm... Maybe, an equivalent concentration of oil lasts longer than alcohol on skin because it tends to be spread over a smaller area being more viscous.

I\'ve been playing mostly with diluted mixes till I got my andro-1 concentrate. I\'ve been looking for an intermediate between slow-release clothing application and fast-release skin application. I guess skin application of a concentrated mix could be the intermediate. =).

I notice that there are quite a few people who claim that PI gives them better results than NPA (though even more that says that NPA is better). It sounds like most people are applying the PI as a concentrated and NPA diluted in cologne. Could it be that the people who get better results with PI are the ones who prefer to apply pheros early in the morning without refreshing???

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The more dilute the mix, the more area you can cover with the same amount of mones. You are taking the same concentration and spreading it out.