What's in Athena's 10X

[xvs]

I\'ve used 10X and found it to be fairly effective (really effective on some women, not at all on others), but it\'s expensive.

Recently, with the availability of pure reagents I became curious as to whether it could be duplicated for less money, or a stronger form obtained.

Although many of the chemicals which might be in it are available here, some aren\'t. Here\'s a list from Cutler\'s 1992 Patent (\"http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5155045\")(which covers different uses) of chemicals which may be in 10X:

androstenol, adrostenone, dehydroepiandrosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, androstadienol, androstadienone, androsterone sulfate and natural derivatives thereof

So for a really complete chemistry set, I think we need these others.

Question: has anyone (or can anyone) do an HPLC analysis of 10X to find out what\'s actually in it?

Cheers,
xvs

[Bruce]

I\'m amazed to see -dienone in that list. In fact, I didn\'t know they had really patented anything at all.

There is a lot of talk that 10X contains DHEA, and I think there was a mention of aNONE content in the the famous \"Petro Labs\" anaylysis for that product, but other than that, I don\'t think anyone knows. Such lab tests are very expensive to have done, especially when you are looking for so many different possible items. Maybe someone could provide details on that.
Cheers,
Bruce

[PHP 87]

Lab report here:
http://www.primalinstinct.net/athena.gif (\"http://www.primalinstinct.net/athena.gif\")

[jvkohl]

Before clamming up, Cutler told a television audience that Athena 10:13 contained DHEA--also said that a similar product for men wouldn\'t work since \"in nature\" men pursue women. The Erox/Pherin chemist: Clive Jennings-White assayed at least one of Cutler\'s products, found DHEA as I recall and that it had no effect on the VNO. The VNO effect or lack is of little consequence. The lack of sex differences in levels of DHEA make DHEA an unlikely candidate for a pheromone. Also, George Preti (Cutler\'s co-author in the late 80\'s) told me that nothing in their work suggested the presence of any definable human pheromone. Soon thereafter, George and Chuck Wysocki blasted an earlier report on Cutler\'s pheromonal effect--referring to it as phenomenal (not based on statistical analysis) rather than as pheromonal.

In the news today is a report from one of Norma McCoy\'s students who says something positive about Cutler\'s compound. Will wait to read the journal article before commenting further, but note that it was Norma who co-authored the study with Cutler that was blasted by Preti and Wysocki.

[xvs]

I\'ve heard elsewhere that 10X contains dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate. Since dehydroepiandrosterone is so easy to obtain, I wonder if it would be worth trying. Or would the sulfate form be the only thing that\'s really active? Hmm... maybe I should crush up some DHEA tabs and see what if anything it does when disolved in alcohol?

I can tell you that I\'ve had major \"hits\" using 10X (mainly in the past when I first started using it) -- women spontaineously stopping me and telling me I smelled really good, etc. And I wasn\'t mixing it with cologne or anything...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

LC, nah, to time consuming. Unless you have a LC/MS (major bank) you\'d have to add a fluorophore to it to see it in a UV detector, introducing a load of error. I believe you\'d need a GC with a J&W DB117ms column (It used to be that before Agilent bought out J&W.) Then you\'d need standards of the various cmpds (these are available, life sciences want to know about everything there) Follow the ramp rate prescribed by J&W and then you would have to find a way of incorperating standards to get quantitative results (ie add a predetermined amount of -none to the stuff.) The hard part would be extracting the sterols (and the -ones) from the mix. But I imagine a SPE kit is out there for that. And the last thing that would have to be done is get the sample conc to be about 1 ng to 1 ug per mL. It would take a day to do if you knew what you were doing. I have a couple of buddies that work in this area, I\'ll ask about the details if people are that interested. But, to head off any questions, I will not perform these exps.