Androstadienone

[Bruce]

Anyone interested in buying a 10 ml (10 mg) bottle of the chemical Androstadienone, please contact me by e-mail at:
bruce@love-scent.com
These bottles are similar to the ones available at the bottom of the \"Chemistry Set\" page: http://love-scent.com/kits/index.html (\"http://love-scent.com/kits/index.html\")
There are no claims or guarantees implied or otherwise on this item. It comes as is, and is for experimental purposes only. The price is not fixed yet, but will be somewhere between the 10ml/10mg bottles of aNONE and aNOL.
Bruce

[Tantalus747]

Do you know what kind of timeline you\'re looking at until a product rolls out?

I\'m sure you don\'t have it nailed down, but maybe just a rough estimate?

[Nutt]

Not going to warrent dropping the cash right now, but if there are any number of sucsesses ( and hey lets be honest, some of this is phycological so theres going to be some if it dosent work images/icons/laugh.gif ) then I\'ll bite at a slightly later date images/icons/smile.gif

Humm, a 5Ml bottle at ~$50 would possibly sway me though, 10MG is a lot of a still untested product.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[Watcher]

I would purchase a 5 ml bottle if you made it available as above for about 50$ US for this experiment. Let us know what you want to do.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree with the others. I\'m interested, but close to $100 for experimenting is a bit hefty. About half might be an upper limit. Assuming something like 0.02 mg each time that would still be enough for 250 experiments... Even better, a 3 ml 3 mg bottle like in the kit. I wouldn\'t hesitate to try it.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: whoami ]

[Irish]

I\'m in. Whatever packaging will get it on the market, I\'m down for it. You run a fair business with great service - whatever makes business sense for you please proceed.

I want to buy some from you!!! images/icons/wink.gif

[Bruce]

I am supposed to get a final answer as to price (somewhere between NOL and NONE of the 10mg/ml kit fame) and delivery date (about a week or so down the road) any time now. I will aske about the possibility of a 5ml size. Most likely we will not be able to have discussions of results on the board, but let me think about that.
Bruce

[oscar]

Bruce,

Nice work! Count me in! images/icons/smile.gif

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[Boards]

Im sorry Ive been away and missed the whole androstadienone thing, could somebody please tell me what they think the effects of androstadienone will do for them - i.e does it have the none or nol effect or is it something completely different?

[ccbythesea]

Bruce,

Isn\'t androstadienone the phero ingredient used in women\'s Realm? If so, then count me in too. Realm/w works so well that I\'d love to have just the -dienone to be able to wear with other fragrances as well.

As far as discussing results on the board; couldn\'t we just refer to it as something else like Phero-X or something?

CC images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, if this stuff is the same stuff in Realm, then you can count me in too.

[PHP 87]

I\'m interested, but not too sure about 10mg.

If it\'s packaged in a 5mg bottle or smaller, I\'m definately in.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi,

With $50 (for 5ml) or so I am in. images/icons/laugh.gif

[Bruce]

Hello,
Just got the final word....
Envelope please.... rrrrrrip
And the winner is....
10 ml (10mg) bottle at $79.95
total count 100 bottles
scheduled (loosely) to arrive mid to late next week.
Will return with URL briefly for advanced sales.
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

CC, as long as we put in anyname for it that is not normal, I think folks will figure it out. I like \"a pinch of home cooked lovin,\" to refer to it, but that is a bit wordy images/icons/smile.gif I wonder if they could get us if we used pig latin? images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Did anybody sort of remember who started the whole -dienone thing. I wanted to sell it on the site as well and was discouraged.

[oscar]

Thunder,

While your efforts were groundbreaking, for which I salute you, it was Truth who relentlessly began the buzz for Androstadienone back in November or December.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[Bruce]

Oscar and Thunder,

These are good points and sensitive issues. I have written to Thunder about it already and am even in communication with Truth, I am happy to say. I was very honest in my communication with Thunder and had no ulterior motives in my fearful assessment of the situation. As I told Thunder back in earlier discussions on the topic, I was approached by a certain chemical company with the idea of selling dienone and after much discussion finally decided against the idea. I was quite frank about that in discussions with Thunder on the same topic and I think he also had the wind taken out of his sails by it.

Next, contrary to certain rumors that have been floating around, I never had any problem with the discussion on the board about dienone, if for not other reason, because I never had the slightest interest in doing what has actually ended up happneing, selling this item.

Chronologically now:
Next, there was a security problem on the forum that was admittedly related to my policy of not allowing URLs of competing websites to be posted on this forum. This had absolutely nothing to do with Thunder\'s long dienone thread or what is happening now with the Stone Lab item being issued.

Next, I got an e-mail from Phil at Stone Labs saying that he got a number of e-mails from forum members wanting to buy the dienone chemcial, and although he didn\'t have any legal/ethical problems with the project, he didn\'t feel comfortable starting up without my involvement at some level. This lead to an hour and a half long transoceanic phone call on the issue, which ended with an \"OK, let\'s do it.\" I thought of Thunder not long after, because although it honestly happened just like I am discribing here, it looks pretty bad and must hurt. Like I said, I wrote him a note already about it and am open to further discussion. Keep in mind though that Phil Stone has actually SPOKEN with the man who really owns the patent in question (and has leased it to Erox) and is very knowledgable in these matters. This is still a touchy subject in my mind, but if Phil Stone doesn\'t feel like he is sticking his neck out, (in all his experience and wisdom) then that obviously means a heck of a lot. Last but not least, although I am feeling a lot more positive about the project now, bottom line is I am in between a rock and a hard place on this. It is going to happen one way or the other, and with the dienone pilgrims now banging on Phil Stone\'s door and Phil VERY kindly reaching out and inviting me on board... what can I say. After asking a million and a half questions I was in.

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So what is so special about this new phero? What will it do that none doesn;t do?

[Bruce]

http://love-scent.com/kits/extra/order.html (\"http://love-scent.com/kits/extra/order.html\")

Well, this should be interesting.
We are scheduled to get 100 bottles sometime the middle of next week and will ship immediately at that point. Advance orders are possible now at the link above. I really don\'t expect it to sell completely out before we have a chance to get some more, so there is no need to panic, but if you are sure you want some, there it is.
Whew...
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bruce,

Will you charge us immediately, or when the item ships?

[a.k.a.]

Just when I though my phero-collection was complete.

[Watcher]

Bruce contary to my saying in the forum data being from dallas texas its donaldduck here. Just changed names as i was getting a little paranoid about some emails i recieved anyway. Would there be a problem importing into australia through normal regular airmail. I would be interested in ordering just after the greenlight so i dont waste my money, ordered some more SOE what two a half weeks back it would have shipped around the 27th of march i think and still hasnt arrived (could be normal shipping delays will check the PO box in the next couple of days but am wondering if it got swiped again.) anyway thanks for youre response this could be an interesting experiment. I would buy a 10ml bottle as well. So that would work out about 170 Australian dollars with shipping.
Are you getting many orders from australia these days as a general question and are they getting through to the customers and or have there been any problems as well with customs and disappearing shipments.

[Bruce]

Good question! I should mark that on the website too.

The shopping cart is a \"real time\" card processor. If the order goes thru, your card has been charged and it is out of our hands. This is the only way you can \"reserve\" a bottle as such, but like I said, I will be VERY surprised if the 100 bottles sell out in one week. The page is not connected to our home page or anywhere else for that matter, and I am only posting it here and in e-mails to customers who have written to me asking to be notified.

Just for laughs, I will post here ocassionally how many bottles have been ordered so you can see if there is really any need to panic, which I highly doubt. There are 4 gone so far.

By the way, there is a free bottle of the DI herbal (US orders) and a bottle of musk oil with every order, so you get that stuff too.

Bruce

[Watcher]

haha funny so are there many orders from australia and will i have any customs problems if i do order one of these experimental phero X products.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Definitely in!

[Naughtymonkey]

One from the UK.............

[Nutt]

heh, looks like there’s a new contender for \'phero of the moment images/icons/laugh.gif \' can’t wait until it ships and the stories come in. Must… resist… buying…

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Watcher,

My APC came through allright (to OZ) last month. Now awaiting SOE and TE.


Ken.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Based on \"Thunder\'s\" past thread on this product I\'m definetly curious to get it but hesistant for the following:

-I wonder if this is the same mix that Thunder put together or if it\'s in its pure raw form where we\'d have to get the chem kits to mix it.

-How we\'d go about applying considering no real tests have been done.

-What responses one would get with this.

The bottom line is that it\'s available, but untill those brave enough to experiment with it post their results, I feel a lot of people including myself will withold purchasing it untill there\'s some sort of evidence, mix formula, etc.

[oscar]

Gents,

There\'s loads of info on A-dienone available through research links on old posts authored by Truth back in Nov. and Dec.\'01, and some have been bumped up to much lower numbered pages.
At the time I thought he was posessed, but I\'ve since gone back and checked a lot of them out. They\'re definitely worth a read. Seems A-dienone was most often classified as a \"mood enhancer\" for women, by those doing the studies.

If the stuff stinks like A-None as Thunder stated, I\'ll probably add cologne at 9:1 or 10:1, as I do with the chem-kit A-None which is also 1mg/mL.

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[travis]

I wanna here result\"S\" from Thunder using Androstadienone.

Travis

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Travis ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, I bit, and I suppose the stuff will surprise me in the mail. One detail I have to note, it is mg, not Mg. Mg is megagrams (10^6 g) or magnesium, depending on yer slant.

I am guessing that it is 10 mg of -dienone in 10 mL\'s of alcohol. Why would Stone Labs change their MO? And at 1mg/mL it would work out identical to the chem kits. As far as the smell, well, I guess we will have to wait on that one.

Application notes I have mustered... I have a hard time getting too excited about this. I am pretty sure that each applicator will behave differently. The only way to really test it, is to fill it up with alcohol, weigh it and spray/dab, reweigh about 5-10 times to see how much is missing. Of course you\'d have to weigh the empty container also to get the weight of your mix. You would also need a very expensive reagent grade balence, and a lot of patience. I start to get a headache when I get to thinking about how to take care of all the varibles. I guess my point is, start small and find what works for you.

[Bruce]

http://love-scent.com/kits/extra/order.html (\"http://love-scent.com/kits/extra/order.html\")
25 sold in the first 24 hours,
so 75 left.
Sold a lot of the chem sets too. Down to 15 of those, but can order more of either.

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Bruce, you said something along the lines of restricting what was posted about -dienone. Well, as one of 26 people who are going to have the stuff so far (Remember Thunder has a nice stash too) do we get any ground rules about what is permittable to talk about? And quite honestly, I know that a lawsuit would make life a real pain in the rear, but I seem to remember something about 1st Amendment rights... I was just curious to see what your take on the subject was.

[Nutt]

well, I think it\'s 10mg of -dienone in 10ml of alcohol (or possibly oil?) , c.f. with PI which has 5mg in 10ml , so its a little strong for direct application, but fine for adding to a cologne or diluting with some ethanol.

Thunder was the first to bite the bullet and experimentaly try a few Mg of raw crystals, which he mixed with ethanol (IIRC), so were pretty much talking about the same thing.

dosage wise, I think there is something mentioned in the patents about amount used, IIRC dosage for most pheros is meant to be optimum by applying about 0.02Mg of product (Right?) and this stuff probably wants a lower dosage. Id play with 0.01Mg doses to start with, you can always double no. of sprays if its ineffective (at least if you dilute w/ ethanol and apply cologne separately) make a small batch (i.e. a few drops if possible) in a vial or atomiser and play.

anybody want to do the maths for how much ethanol ( or alcohol) to add to a 10mL bottle if you were looking to get 0.02Mg per spray / drop / dab / bucket or whatever your favourite method of application is? What did scientist estimate one spray and one dab to be in mL volumes again? If I get bored with doing real work again I\'ll go back and try to find em and work it all out.

I really should look back and remember my molarities and concentration calculations images/icons/crazy.gif images/icons/laugh.gif


BTW , how do you feel about us discussing this on your forum bruce? Im sure someone could spare some semi-anonymous server space and set up a -dienone forum to keep things safer legaly, but I can see reasons you wouldent want to encourage this idea too. Balls in your court, and thanks for bringing us this product, I just hope its as good as we hope. images/icons/laugh.gif

Pheros are fun images/icons/cool.gif images/icons/tongue.gif

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[Naughtymonkey]

well, as a patent attorney, I think I can see what Bruce is doing but will keep my own council. I wouldn\'t worry too much about that side of things...........

[Bruce]

Naughty,
Drop me an e-mail. I\'d like to hear what you have to say on the issue. Rather not go into it on the forum too much.
From what I figure, the worst that could happen would be to have to stop selling the stuff, and even that is not very likely. Once this thread disappears, which it will at some point, it is not even being sold to the public. There are chemical houses all over the US selling this chemical, the trick being that it is just a chemical and nothing more with no claims of usefulness whatsoever. It could be argued that openly selling it on the Love Scent site implies certain claims, so we are not doing that.
As far as future discussions, some suggestions have been made already. Maybe I can keep an eye out and do some editing when needed to make sure they are followed. How about giving it a product name like \"Andro 10\" or something like that?
Cheers,
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, I\'m back! Bruce was nice enough to reinstate me, even though I flew off the handle on him and was behind some of the \"mischief\". =P. Anyway, we\'ve come to an understanding, and the real issues are actually much more minor than I had thought. Anyway, very sorry Bruce!

Well, so much to catch up, especially on the -dienone!

Back to Thunder... I am also sorry that things didn\'t work out for you with selling -dienone. However, I really don\'t think there\'s real money to be made with -dienone, due to patent issues. I hope the -dienone works for us and gives us something else to play with, but no matter how successful it is, Bruce will probably have to continue to sell it as a small-time operation through word of mouth on this forum.

As far as who started the -dienone thing, no one can claim being first, since Realm was talked about from the beginning of this forum (June 2001?). I joined the forum back in November and started the first big wave of -dienone talk, but it died down since no one had access to it outside of Realm for Women. One day, I was reading a paper on -dienone and saw that the authors got the -dienone from Steraloids, Inc. I found their website and posted the link to the forum, hoping somebody like you would pursue it. Judging from the seriousness of the Steraloids site, I didn\'t think it was worth pursuing myself. I had no interest in selling it like you and Bruce -- I just wanted to be the happy end user! Anyway, no one pursued the -dienone after I posted the link to Steraloids back in December.

So when you came on this forum last month and said that you had purchased -dienone from Steraloids, I naturally I assumed you got the tip from my earlier post. However, apparently, you got their independently and wasn\'t even aware of the earlier talk of -dienone, probably because the search function on this forum doesn\'t work for posts prior to this year (anyway to fix this, Bruce?). Anyway, I was cheering you on all the way! I just wanted somebody to supply the -dienone.

Now, I\'m also happy that Bruce will be supplying us the -dienone, and at a lower price than Steraloids ($80 for 10 mg!). Thunder, I think we all do owe you thanks for creating the second wave of -dienone talk, which generated enough excitement, so that we weren\'t denied this time! Thank you. Thank you!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, according to literature, -dienone is the most prominent androgen component in human axillary sweat (slightly ahead of -none). So, calling -dienone \"Andro 1\" would be even more appropriate. =)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I like \"Phero X\" images/icons/tongue.gif

[Bruce]

Andro 1 might be more practical as phero x might look a little suspicious? Imagine you are a spy in a foreign country. Would you want to call yourself \"Mr. X\"? images/icons/smile.gif
Bruce

[travis]

Truth,

I\'m GLAD you are back....

Travis images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

How about Andro X ? It is the roman numeral for 10, and also has the \"In Like Flint\" spy appeal. Just a thought.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I just wanted to let everyone know I recieved my bottle of Natural Attraction pillow spray today and it smells really good. I do smell a slight -none type scent after a few minutes which might be the -dienone. As soon as I get the -dienone I ordered, I\'m gonna spike a small portion of it with some extra -dienone and apply it as cologne. Seeing as how the scent was probably engineered to go along with the scent of -dienone, I think it will mask it nicely if it does happen to smell as rank as Thunder says it does. Just to let you know Bruce, I am still very loyal to your company and only decided to get this stuff because it was a pillow spray, which was something I hadn\'t seen here, not to mention that it contained -dienone and I was very eager to test it in some form for a small amount of money. If only I had waited a few more days, I could have just skipped the Natural Attraction and bought only the -dienone from you. Anyway, I hope i get some good results when I finally get the stuff. It sounds really promising considering the results Thunder had. I\'m glad that you decided to carry it for us here in the forum.

-Andy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ditto. I got my pillow spray also. I actually don\'t like the smell too much, though it\'s OK. It smells a lot like a cheap version of Jovan Musk2. Don\'t know if I should say anymore, but I look forward to getting the raw -dienone. =).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thunder, we\'d all like to hear more about your continuing -dienone experiments. From my understanding, it\'s been several weeks now. Did your miraculous results the first weekend continue? What\'s your current opinion?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

First of all Thanks for the props Truth. You are right I was not aware of you starting the first thread on -dienone. I did put a alot of time into this, trying to set up something, but alas. Did you get the kind of responses like I did. I found that approx 15ml mixed with 5 mg was way to strong. I used the raw crystals. Not aware if their is another form. I never did figure out how much weight my atomizer was spitting out with each spray so I\'m not sure if I went over the .05 limit or not. The mist is fine and short bursts so I don\'t think it was to much. I sprayed some on a shirt and did not wear it and could still smell it 4 days later. I sprayed it on a shirt I wore and sweat in and it lasted about 2.5 to 3 days. This was one spray. I sprayed 2.5 shots on me before dancing and I had to go to the bathroom to wash some off. It will be interesting to see what come from Phil&Bruce. My brother has been in town for the past couple of weeks and he is 17 so no club action. Not even all nighters(rave type). I have been wearing it though trying it with different combonations of -mones. Women are very warm with -dienone alone. Mixed results with combose. Probably do not have the mixtures down right yet. Remember not alot of real personal space testing in the last couple of weeks though. He\'s gone now so I will resume. I\'m 32 so we had kind of a generation gap going. Oh yeah, alot more looks at the gym. Girls, sometimes guys, using the machine right next to me when there is a whole gym full of open equip.
Need more time for study. I\'m not sure if it\'s just me but when I was using it everyday I think it started to irritate the skin on my neck. Again speculation as I have hypersensitive skin do to acne medication. I am glad that people give me kuddo\'s for starting the thread. Do those things cap at 140 because it\'s been like that for a while. Since Bruce kinda snuffed my request for sales and went with Phil who has better suppliers and more knowledge, he has been kind enough to offer me some sort of deal to get in on the action since I did create alot of interest in the product, which seemed to be a dead deal until I started my obsessively driven ivestigation. Now it seems many people are very interested, Id like to think it something to do with me,not cocky, I know it did.I know I\'m rather new to this industry but I do have business sense and for the nature of my field am still going to school...sigh...so when I study something, including papers, questions, answers, and any other sourcr of knowledge I learn quickly and actually have a very good understanding of the subject including the Anatomical side. Bottom line. I\'m not dead yet, just temporarily frustrated and trying to get caught up on all the stuff I neglected. Thanks everyone for your support. I hope you find the success that I had. Remeber they still won\'t come running, but if you have game enough to inter personal space, your in.

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Thunder ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Glad to see you back Thunder.

Too bad you haven\'t been able to test -dienone out to a great extent. I\'m sure there will be an explosion two weeks from now, when the rest of us crazies get our hands on it.

I don\'t know what you meant when you asked if I got responses like you did? With -dienone? The thread? I definitely didn\'t get any lengthy threads going with -dienone. Like I said, getting the raw form didn\'t seem imminent, so there was no excitement. As far as max thread length, I\'m pretty sure there has been even longer threads than the -dienone thread you started. There used to be something called the \"hit parade\" that would go on forever, until someone started another thread.

As far as responses with -dienone, I still believe that Realm for Women may be the only product which did something for me. I never got great results with Edge, SOE, NPA like the other guys here. I sometimes wonder if it\'s related to my theory that -dienone conditions the responses of all the other pheros through sexual experience. I tend to like more conservative girls who\'s conditioned responses might not be so strong.

So, you mixed 5 mg in 15 ml of solution and sprayed it. Did you add cologne?! Well, this would be a 0.333 mg/ml solution. Scientist had once calculated that a spray is approx 0.13 ml, so one spray would give you 0.43 mg -- already more than twice the believed optimal dose. However, I think the optimal dose on clothing might be higher than on skin due to lower release rate.

By the way, from the Realm patents, it\'s inferred that Realm for Women contains somewhere between 1-25 ug of -dienone per ml (0.001-0.025 mg/ml). I know it\'s a big range, but at least we have a starting point. Let\'s assume that the -dienone concentration is the max at 0.025 mg/ml. That\'s still less than 1/10th the concentration of your mix. Of course, the reason Realm for Women is so weak could be because it\'s designed to primarily affect the wearer, so it doesn\'t need to radiate so much.

[Nutt]

So to get the ‘ industry standard’ 0.02 mg from one hit of an atomiser spray you need about 0.2mg per 0.13ml which would work out as about 7 or 8 sprays per ml, meaning you need 0.02mg * 7-8 in one ml of solvent ( cologne, ethanol etc: ) or 0.16 mg per 1 ml.

Soo. If you wanted to get 0.16 mg /ml you’d take 1 Mg of the 1mg/ml phero your playing with, and add 1mg / 0.16ml , or 6.25ml of solvent per 1mg of product.

That gives you 6.25 ml of liquid, with a concentration of 0.16mg/ml giving 50 sprays from an atomiser, each dispensing 0.13ml of liquid containing 0.02Mg of pheromone.

Rember, were starting with a 1mg/ml solution, so there’s already some alcohol present effectively, 1ml per ml of phero you want to mix. So take away 1 ml of solvent for every ml your mixing, i.e. to make a 0.16 mg/ml solution you’d add 5.25ml of solvent to your 1ml of pheromone solution.


Id probably mix a batch using 0.5mg of phero to start with, giving 25 sprays and having to add 2.125 of solvent. You might also want to aim to get a 0.02mg/ml dose from 2 sprays, ie. Get a 0.053mg/ml solution by adding 0.5 mg of phero to 11.5 ( 12.5 – 1 ml, for the alcohol already in the pheromone mix)

Ok, I think that right, but make sure you correct it if its not images/icons/laugh.gif
It’s based on 0.02mg being the optimum dose, which is from memory, so could be wrong.

oh, and If I did my usual trick of saying M ( mega) rather than m ( milli ) , then use m images/icons/shocked.gif damn units images/icons/laugh.gif

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

if anyone does get their hands on the androstadienone, what\'s the most ideal solvent to keep it in as an additive? just a passing thought.. cos I\'m more interested in the details than te concept.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'ve found 20cc(ethonol, or cologne) to 5mg of -dienone works for me. Lets see how Stone Labs turns out, maybe he has a different form of the chem. I used crystals.

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Thunder ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Nutz, I think it\'s more important to blend a ratio of cologne (solvent) to -dienone that masks the smell of the -dienone. Getting the 0.02 mg in one spray may not be feasible. 2 sprays is probably better.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Damn good mathmatics you got going on there Nutz. Which atomizers are you talking about though. 50 sprays from what kind of Atom.
I am not using the one\'s on the site.

[Nutt]

Yeah, 2 (+) sprays is certainly a good idea ( I did mention it, but I defiantly don’t blame you if you got bored half way through images/icons/laugh.gif ).

If your blending with cologne, you want to be careful you don’t make the solution too weak that you reek of cologne but have a low phero signature however, which is why using plain alcohol may be better for experiments, with cologne added separately to cover up afterwards.

The atomizers (\"http://www.love-scent.com/fancy-atomizers/order.html\") are the ones bruce currently sells ( I think) scientist worked it out by squirting some alcohol out of one into a cap, and sucking up the liquid. I have a feeling the original thread has been lost in the recent trouble.

Dunno if they would hold enough liquid for a whole 50 sprays in one bottle though, that stuff was just some rules of thumb for myself and anyone else who wants to have some figures to play with, the maths should be good though.

truths bang on about masking the scent, you said that it smelt strong thunder, did you add any cologne to mask, was it a lot? It\'s an important factor, but its also pretty subjective so maths doesn’t work as well on that images/icons/laugh.gif

Personally I\'d prefer to keep the cologne at my normal level ( i.e. pretty low, being a young U.K. male we tend not to wear any or very little. deodorant is the \'smell\' of choice nowadays ( not v. good with pheros though images/icons/smile.gif ) I’d probably apply a light coat of cologne on top of the phero. I figure that if the phero is doing its job then the target wont care if there’s a slightly strange, yet likable smell around me. most people seem to think sweat is the nearest smell to a lot of pheros (right?) but who cares if a girl thinks your sweating if she thinks you smell great at the same time images/icons/wink.gif .

Anyhow, I guess thunders the only one who can talk about covering the scent at the moment, all of this is conjecture and common sense until we see some real product! images/icons/smile.gif


BTW, if my calculations were correct, that means that there are 500 applications at 0.02mg dosage in that bottle! images/icons/laugh.gif that gotta be a years supply! images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/tongue.gif are we sure I got it right?

[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JOBOO, so has the pillow spray been working for you? My results have been mixed. I like the scent of Realm for Women a lot better, even though it\'s kind of feminine, so I might go back to it. Anyway, this is all for pre-trials before the -dienone concentrate arrives. =)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Truth,

Well, I haven\'t noticed too many results except its effects on me. I have had some really wierd dreams lately. Also, a girl from school, who is also a close friend, came over to work on a group project the other day. We did the work in my room and about 10 minutes into the work, I felt like I was having a panic attack! Something about the way she smelled brought back memories of my ex girlfriend (who I greatly miss) and it was driving me nuts. Needless to say, that night I had a dream about the girl who is in my group. I asked her what perfume she was wearing and she said it was \"Lucky You\". I think my ex girlfriend used to wear that also. I don\'t know if it was just the plain smell of the perfume ot the fact that we were sitting on my bed and I was possibly picking up the phero\'s as well as her cologne, reminding me of all the messing around me and my ex used to do in that bed. So, thats all I\'ve noticed lately. If phero\'s are involved in this, It might be the estratetranol (did I spell that right)...It is supposed to be included in the spray along with -dienone. I hope someone else can figure out whats going on here.

-Andy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

J0B00,
Sleep can be affected according to study nr 3 on this (\"http://wwwpsy.uni-muenster.de/inst2/maiworm/publications.html\") page: \"...under the vaginal secretion they tend to sleep more restless.\"

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JOBOO, interesting comments about the dreams. In the deleted Natural Attraction thread, somebody had also commented about having sexual dreams when spraying his pillow. Was that you? If not, then we have multiple people experiencing the same thing.

The pillow spray is interesting because it\'s implied to contain both -dienone and estra-. The first few days I wore it, I also believed that it lifted my mood. However, it hasn\'t affected me as much the last few days. Maybe, wearing the pheromones of the opposite sex 24 hours a day, eventually blunts your response them. That\'s not good for the people at Erox who plan to use these pheromones as mood elevators. It may also affect your romance life. Not good...

How would you compare the pillow spray to Realm for Women. I\'m not convinced it\'s better even though I\'m able to use much more of it. Maybe, the estra- interferes with -dienone signal. =P.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JOBOO, have you been using the pillow spray on your clothing or your pillow?

[oscar]

truth et al,

So I\'m thinking, that if I add some -dienone to my Realm for men, I\'ll have a multi-purpose pillow AND body spray with an acceptably masculine fragrance, and both estra- and -dienone. Right?
Only problem looks like getting the proportions right. Guess I\'ll keep it on the weak side. Can\'t imagine there\'s a shitload of estra- in the R/fm.

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Wilde Oscar ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yep Oscar, if you like the estra- in the Realm for Men, then adding in the -dienone concentrate makes sense. I never liked the scent of Realm for Men though. Maybe, we need an estra- concentrate too. =).

[oscar]

truth,

Well, if you\'re really ready to embark on another crusade, what about Androstadienol?
Who was it that was asking about this?

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, -dienol is in human sweat. I haven\'t heard of any studies done on it. However, if we go any further with inclusion of components, we might as well go for a product that\'s essentially human axillary sweat!

[Tantalus747]

Well, I don\'t remember who said it, but I remember that comments have been made here to the effect that concentrated human axillary sweat would probably be most effective.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Truth,
That wasn\'t me that posted about the dreams in the last NA thread. I have to agree with the restless sleeping part. I didn\'t sleep very well at all. I think I must have woken up about 4 different times during the night. One of the times, I don\'t know if it was just hot in the house, but I was sweating a lot. As for how I\'m using the spray, I\'m using it both as a cologne and a pillow spray. I haven\'t noticed any things about my mood except that I feel sort of anxious around women when I have it on.

Today I noticed something interesting also. I had a track meet and before I left I sprayed 1 spray of the NA on my chest. During my warmup for the 3000m, I sweat a pretty good bit and the section of my shirt that toughed the area of my chest that I had sprayed was obviously moist. I took that shir off and changed into my uniform and got ready to run. When I finished my race, I went and picked up my shirt again and it smelled so bad, I was almost ashamed. I\'ve never had BO that bad before, even from wearing phero\'s. I\'m wondering if there was some sort of reaction with the bacterian on my skin and in my sweat that did something to the NA. Another interesting part of this is that after I ran my race, when i went back to get my shirt out of my bad, one of the girls from our women\'s team was using my bag as a pillow. And she was kinda reluctant to give it up. The first thing she asked me was \"Are you moving your bag?\" When i said no she goes \"Good, because I\'m using it as a pillow!\" and gave me a big grin. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JOBOO, I\'ve been sort of anxious around women too! Hmm... Maybe, I should go back to Realm for Women and see if there\'s a difference, but I\'d like to give the NA a longer try. By the way, this anxiety around women is the exact opposite of what Realm claims for estra- (confidence, etc.).

Have you tried Realm for Women or Men, JOBOO?

[Tantalus747]

Perhaps the estra- is causing anxiety around women because you\'re subconsiously acting as though they\'re the ones producting the estra-.

Kind of like all the women around you have suddenly become supermodels. Maybe you\'re responding as though they\'re all putting out supermodel levels of -estra.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, I don\'t think all the girls are supermodels. However, the estra- levels surrounding us all day could be comparable to that during intimate contact. Maybe, this causes higher anxiety (?). Anyway, I\'m really starting to question whether it\'s wise to wear pheromones of the opposite gender.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Nope, never tried either of the realm products. I have never even smelled them.

I found this article on -Dienone a couple days ago. It was really interesting. Check it out here: http://www.senseofsmell.org/sosi/pubresources/pdf/V.VIIno4.pdf (\"http://www.senseofsmell.org/sosi/pubresources/pdf/V.VIIno4.pdf\")

[oscar]

truth,

Wasn\'t there one study that found that both estra- and -dienone evoked negative responses in males? Or am I thinking about something else?

Oscar images/icons/crazy.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This dienone stuff has really got me interested, more to the point--what does it do that -nol, -none, and -rone doesnt do? (mind you that I havent had any huge successes with either of the three--which is why i am interested in dienone) I would love to hear a to the point example of the effectiveness of this stuff before i consider buying it--so if anyone has had any experiences--please let me know, thanks. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yep, I\'ve seen the study that found negative psychological effects on males from both -dienone and estra-. I thought Pherin had found others pheromones that activate the male VNO, but I think these are still the only two used in EROX fragrances.

Thunder had limited success with -none, -nol, and -rone, and got some major results with -dienone. The rest of us have only tried -dienone at unknown and probably low concentrations in Realm for Women and NA pillow spray. Many have reported positive, but mild results.

Well, I should place the -dienone order soon. So, how many bottles are left, Bruce?

[oscar]

ChrisLax,

Check out \"Androstadienone raw form found\" posted by Thunder, currently on page 4. He\'s the only guy that\'s used -dienone at any appreciable concentration, and he had girls LICKING him and such!
That sold me! images/icons/laugh.gif

Oscar images/icons/wink.gif

[Watcher]

Although being here we shouldnt make any wild claims yet. I would wait to those people that have ordered some get a handle and let the rest of us know in the meantime im still using SOE and it seems to be doing a great job combined with AE or TE/attraction mix well apart from a couple of guys thinking i was gay (they definetley were because they were commin onto me - which being a straight guy i sort of just ignored it and moved away) but apart from that with AE and SOE on thier own well it seems to work well.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So Bruce, how many bottles have you sold so far? Just curious...

[Tantalus747]

Any update for us, Bruce?

[Watcher]

Hey tantulas hows things with youre combos.

[Tantalus747]

Actually at the moment I\'m starting to suspect that SOE alone might be better for me. I\'m planning on spending a couple weeks experimenting with that. (And working w/ TE alone some just to see what the effects are.)

I\'ve not really had time or energy to expose myself to alot of women though. I\'ve got a large part in a play that opens Thursday & a part in a play that opens in about a month.

[Watcher]

Im still undecided i notice certain things with both AE and SOE alone and together as well as the various other pheros i have but there is certainly not the fleeing the room with an SOE OD as with the none heavy OD im wondering what a dieanone OD would do.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So, any update about andro-1, Bruce? Does it look like it\'ll ship tomorrow? =)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi. Is this stuff good only for men to attract or can a natural unshaven female like me use it (to attract men, not women)?

[Tantalus747]

Someone posted about getting responses from men with women\'s realm, which has this stuff in it.

But I think that your question can\'t really be answered at this point. This is an expiramental area. images/icons/smile.gif

I\'d say the chances of actracting men with it are less than women though. Seeing as we don\'t know the chances or attracting women with it, that doesn\'t say much though. images/icons/smile.gif

[Nutt]

any news on numbers / dates yet bruce?
How about those plastic syringes? you gonna iffer them / chuck em in with orders? images/icons/smile.gif