Works on same species

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I would like clarification on the, so far, scientific facts that pheromones only work on members of their on species.

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A \"pheromone\" is a biochemical produced by an animal or individual which elicits a specific physiological or behavioral response in another member of the same species. In addition to physiological responses, pheromones can be identified by their species specific binding to receptors in the vomeronasal organ (VNO). The binding of pheromones is generally sexually dimorphic. Naturally occurring human pheromones induce sexually dimorphic changes in receptor binding potential in vivo in the human VNO.

The perfumed products now available do not stimulate VNO receptors since an odorant which is not a pheromone for humans stimulates only the olfactory receptors of the nose. Fragrance compositions which are both pleasant smelling and also contain human pheromones will stimulate both olfactory receptors, and pheromone receptors in the VNO of individuals. Such a fragrance composition provides a broader olfactory stimulation than previously possible.


These are exerpts from the Realm Patent. My the way the amount a Androstadienone the use is in the very low nonograms level.

[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: Thunder ]

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Well, nanograms were used in the experiments that piped pheromones directly to the VNO. Micro/milligrams are used in the actual Realm fragrance.

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Some studies have noted that, in some species, various characteristics of certain 16-Androstenes (including 5.alpha.-Androst-16-en-3.alpha.-ol and 5.alpha.-Androst-16-en-3-one), such as blood concentration, metabolism, and localization, are sexually dimorphic (Brooksbank, et al., J. Endocr. (1972) 52: 239-251; Claus, et al., J. Endocr. (1976) 68:483-484; Kwan, et al., Med. Sci. Res. (1987) 15:1443-1444). For instance, 5.alpha.-Androst-16-en-3.alpha.-ol and 5.alpha.-Androst-16-en-3-one, as well as 4,16-Androstadien-3-one, have been found at different concentrations in the peripheral blood, saliva and axillary secretions of men and of women (Kwan, T. K., et al., Med. Sci. Res. (1987) 15:1443-1444).

Looks like we have the nol and none but i do not see the rone anywhere

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Truth where did you read that?

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-none is regarded is as a pig pheromone, even though it\'s not known whether it stimulates the VNO. It causes the female to adopt a mating stance, so the effect is strong. Is -none a pheromone in other mammalian species, in particular other primates (i.e., monkeys, apes, etc.)? We are more similar to monkeys, so you\'d think -none should have an effect on monkeys if it has an effect on pigs and humans. Maybe, monkey pheromones haven\'t been as extensively studied since no one breeds them for food.

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you didn\'t answer my question.
where did you read the amoung of pheromone they put into Realm.

Thats great the male gets into the mating stance but I want the female to lay in her mating stance.

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In one of the Realm patents, it stated the concentrations of -dienone in fragrance covered under the patent. I can\'t remember which one. The concentration range was lower than what people typically use here, but not trace amounts.

[jvkohl]

Thunder:
Don\'t get so caught up in definitions, especially when species specificity is concerned. There\'s a chemical that acts as a pheromone in an insect that also acts as a pheromone in elephants (and a host of species along the way). Martha McClintock is currently spearheading another effort (as with \"vomeropherins\") to further define human pheromones. \"Vassanas\" is her choice with regard to different criteria that are used to classify pheromones versus odors. Will wait to see if other researchers pick up on use of her term, which is doubtful. However, I bought the domain name--just in case. But when Martha told me she was upset that I bought vassanas.com (based on insider info she provided) I offered to transfer it to her for free. Still waiting to see what happens. Also, the VNO need not be involved for pheromones to have their effect. I have stated repeatedly that the most important effect is the luteinizing hormone response, since that\'s the best \"measurable\" effect that human pheromones have, and it occurs even without VNO involvement. The human VNO stuff is mostly Erox/Pherin\'s marketing attempt, which now is challenged by McClintock\'s \"vassanas.\" Honestly, one the the olfactory science heavyweights said (at a conference that we should throw everybody who wants to use a particular word with regard to human pheromones into the same room, and let whomever emerges determine which word would be used. images/icons/wink.gif

Erox/Pherin stresses that vomeropherins elicit VNO response when using picogram amounts. McClintock uses 900 micromoles in studies that demonstrated \"...effects on general emotional and arousal states and demonstrated that these compounds wer not exclusively mimicking psychoactive drugs...\"

Best bet, in my opinion, is to not be too concerned with research reports or patent applications--unless you plan to study human pheromones for the next 10 years. And even if you do plan to study it for the next 10 years, you can be relatively sure that many changes will be made in the story--before it is complete.

Also, no one else--besides me, has studied -rone, so you\'re not likely to find info on its link to sexual dimorphism and also to sexual orientation--unless you somehow manage to turn up the names Margolese and Janiger.

I have the late geneticist/professor Dr. Leonard Storm to thank for this; the man was brilliant and had a mind like a steel trap. In the early 90\'s, when we met socially for the first time, he still remembered a early 70\'s comment on Margolese. In the early 80\'s I nearly failed the genetics course he taught at the University of Nevada. Never dreamed that one person could have so much influence over my work with human pheromones, especially someone who taught a course that I had no real interest in--back then.

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I agree with JVK, look with open eyes at the compounds that are pheromones. For mammels, they all are some sort of derivatives of each other. There are only so meny options, so you expect that some cross over. Mother nature tends to find things that work (like in bacteria) and keep them as evolution grinds forward (ever wonder if mitochondrions were bacteria?) OK, enough with my snide bio jokes, but the facts as we know are the same. Mother nature works like this statment, \"If it works, don\'t fix it.\"

Saying that, of course if a grasshopper was in heat... No, just remember that species close to our own (yes pigs are, Ask where the original insulin for people/diabetics came from.) will have phero systems similar to our own. Think about it...

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Oh yeah, I\'d expect that Ma Nature would also be able to mess with the levels to help differentiate between species. What a subscript of a 200th post, but a necessary one, none the less.

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Oh i thought phil stone was also working with -rone well looks like the theroies are becoming a bit more sound based keep discussing it as that will give us a clear picture at the end. As to cross species working well that could happen in some cases (such as symbodic species relationships etc)

[jvkohl]

Yes, when I learned that Phil Stone was using -rone, I really wondered what prompted him to do so. I thought he might have run accross the sexual orientation info on ratios of -rone/etiocholanolone. However, Phil said that -rone was simply the next logical step, due to similarities with -ol and -none. He\'s absolutely right, but if you\'ve been following my posts, there are many other reasons, including my 10 years of working with it to determine its potential (and reports in this forum of its effectiveness). Also, you can expect to read more reports on the human ability to sniff out different emotions (with adrenal hormone secretion being a primary correlate with these emotions). If androsterone doesn\'t win the \"battle of the human pheromones,\" I\'ll be very surprised.