New President

[idesign]

Barack Obama must be

congratulated on his achievement. There are very few men who could rise to this stature from any background, much

less as a member of a minority group. Agree or disagree with his policies or ideology, we have to recognize the

importance of what he's managed to do, which is to be the first to overcome what has been - all too recently - a

cultural bias against anyone not white and privileged.

Its less than 50 years ago that I remember seeing a

"white only" water fountain in a drug store in rural North Carolina. I remember forced busing of black kids into

the Virginia school system where I went to high school, and hearing talk about "bringing in trouble". They were

right, there was trouble.

Now we have a President who may not have been a part of this ugly past, but has become

a symbol of what's been overcome. Many young people who voted for Obama have no clue about what his election

means. But there are many Americans who suffered the awful stigma of race who can now celebrate a kind of

coming-of-age, the arrival of a welcoming national sensibility in the same country which enslaved their

fathers.

This has as much, if not more, to say about America as a Democracy. One can gush about freedom and

opportunity and seem naive. One can also speak about and believe these things and be right. There's no shame in

patriotism, and it need not be blind. The things that make one proud to be part of a country that gives opportunity

equally necessarily grows from trials and failures. Its a testament to the world that America has formerly denied,

and now given this opportunity.

There's no lack of criticism and sarcasm that could accompany this post, most of

which I've already though of. I just wanted to feel good for a few minutes, and honestly so.

[MOBLEYC57]

I like what you said.

I

voted for a change in history. No one that has been president since my first day of breathing, has impressed me. A

lot of things has changed, but there are still ugliness amongst us.

I know there were a lot of people that

called in sick on 5 November 2008. They'll just have to deal with it until someone kills him, or the next election.

It's so terrible that people chose to pass their ignorant seeds on to their supposedly loved ones. Just the other

day, I was talking to one of my cousins that delivers furniture for different stores. He had to deliver a bed to

this elderly couple (late 60S he said). When he walked into their bed room ... there were statues of black people

hanging from trees. He didn't say anything, but when he had finished putting together the bed. The old man asked if

he'd drop his old bed off at his brothers house. He told him no. Left the other bed in the front yard and got the

hell out of there. I've said all that to say ... some changes are worthy, lots are not. Passing on hatred is

IGNORANT, and there are LOTS of IGNORANT people strill roaming this Earth. I have to deal with that, and I accept

people for being who they are ... even if they're IGNORANT. I use to hate those people ... black and white. Now ...

I feel sorry for them.

This is one major step taken ... one more to go. Will I see a woman president before I

die? I hope so, but I doubt it.

The only difference besides skin color between the two, is that one has more

experience in lying. Please excuse my ignorance when it comes to politics, but that's how I feel.

For those of

you that may have that sickening feeling in your stomach, and may have not be able to sleep for a while ... it's

going to be alright.

God blessed America! Will anything GOOD/DIFFERENT out of the ordinary come from it? Time

will tell. If it doesn't ... what's new with newly elected presidents? :sick:

[Rbt]

I'm waiting for all the whiners to

complain how a black got into a high office BEFORE a woman did.

[MOBLEYC57]

I'm waiting

for all the whiners to complain how a black got into a high office BEFORE a woman did.

I wouldn't be

shocked; annnnd they're not whiners, Rbt ... they're ignorant people, but it's what they were taught (black and

white), and didn't learn any better, so ...

It's a touchy world, and sometimes I feel so ashamed. My son sent

me what I considered a bit racist text on 5 Nov, which pretty much said that people were pissed. I text him back

this exact message. "When will the ignorance stop? Probably never. Pass it on." It hurts me to know

he thinks that way, but I'll continue to attempt to wipe that ignorance from him until I'm plucked from this

Earth.

They're going to be a lot of uncomfortable people walking around for a good while. I just hope he lives

through his term, but you never know. They're are some hateful & evil people on this big round ball.

[belgareth]

I really didn't want to see

Obama president but not because of his color. Hell, I'd have voted for Condolesa Rice in an instant. I just

disagree with his politics and think he's a bad choice to lead this country. I did not vote for McCain either but

would have preferred him over Obama. However, the deed is done for good or ill and only time will tell if he was a

good or bad choice. What I'd like to see now is all the stupid, devisive crap stop. We are still one country and

one people. We need to stop fighting each other and start working on fixing the problems, together.

[Mtnjim]

What I'd

like to see now is all the stupid, devisive crap stop. We are still one country and one people. We need to stop

fighting each other and start working on fixing the problems, together.


It's not going to happen.

The Republican** FUD team is already getting started (remember the Clinton's "vast right wing conspiricy"?). Oddly

enough, they are starting out by going after Palin.



**By "Republican" I'm not refering to the guy next

door who happens to vote Republican, but to the professional whack job destroy the government and let the

corperations run America Washington machine "Republicans".

[DrSmellThis]

Congratulations are in order,

not just for Obama, but for all the people in the world, who are mostly celebrating at this moment. This is a

planetary event, even to the extent that living here to some extent obscures the effect.

This seems the biggest

presidential election in my lifetime. I cried like a baby when the victory was announced. That doesn't mean I agree

with Obama on policies that much more than most other politicians.

What I liked about Obama, and the reason I

voted for him without hesitation, was more about various intangibles, than about policy or ideology. Other than his

antiwar stance and openness to some form of public role in health care, his politics seemed rather corporate and

middle of the road to me; and even though he has a track record of voting against Bush on most things. On the other

hand, I could never have voted for McCain, as he seemed to have a lot of the same faults as Obama, only worse given

he voted with Bush so much on so many cringe-inducing things; without the intangibles.

I'm quite sure I will

continue to disagree with the Pres Elect on certain issues. But certain things transcend ideology or typical

political issues for me.

First, I believe race relations will never be the same again in this country after

Tuesday. It's a new day, as dramatic as it sounds. The whole American community and culture is being transformed;

is going to look significantly different, due to the psychological impact.

There is going to be a huge leap

upward, and toward a tighter culture. Crime is going to go down significantly, for example, as hard as that might be

to believe, because of greater inclusion. Quotas are going to become less of an issue. Prejudice will no longer be

so socially supported. The empowerment people of color (and other kinds of minorities, given the inclusive feel) are

going to be experiencing will change everything, on every level, and in every circumstance where race is involved.

Prejudice is still a huge issue in so many silly and destructive ways, but this is a real change, and feels

indescribably good for a vast array of people. It is an emotional catharsis that is perhaps unmatched in my lifetime

(and way surpasses the general emotional impact of the first moon landing, which is perhaps the next closest

example, or perhaps the end of WWII and its "happy days are here again"). I love the fact he is AA, and is such a

great role model for African Americans.

Second, people everywhere in the world are celebrating (OK, maybe not the

Russian president yet, but he wasn't overjoyed with us anyway, and the wounds are still deep and unhealed with him

over Georgia), and are absolutely opening their hearts to the US again, similar to the way it was just after 9-11

(though certainly with a note of "show me" skepticism). The bump in good will and preparedness to cooperate is

palpable. The message this sends is one of inclusion, openness, and more. Obama's style of diplomacy is going to be

radically different and more effective than what we've experienced. People everywhere are already looking intently

to the US for more substantive world citizenship, and they are feeling very optimistic in this regard. It's a small

world now in every way, to the point of virtual collective consciousness (literally, in the case of the web, but

also less tangibly); and the old ways and attitudes do not work.

Third I really like his young attitude and

consciousness. His whole level of awareness and world view just seems way more in touch with the consciousness that

has evolved in much of the US, for lack of better terms. There is a sort of "contemporary reasonableness" and "in

touch" quality (in touch with how thoughtful people are thinking these days) that is extremely tangible for me and

many others. You don't at all feel like you are talking to someone from WWII, with that world view, for

example.

Fourth through eighth, I also love his reasonableness; his calmness, his judgement, and his

intelligence. I think that he will excel as a "generic problem solver", wherever applicable (as opposed to knee-jerk

ideological "solutions" to everything, for example.). I think he is generally trustworthy, for a politician; and

will have the American People's Back behind closed doors (factoring out ideology). He is going to do his best to

solve problems in a practical manner, genuinely accepting input form broad sources, and in the context of sincere

dialogue. He has a certain level of integrity, and is genuinely passionate about his service. Yet he is not going to

be afraid to compromise his presumed ideology to solve a problem in a timely, practical manner.

People everywhere

in the world are already trusting him way more than one would expect of a typical new president.

Further, he a

gifted politician to the extent that no one else since JFK was; and I am well aware of the excellent skills of

Reagan and Clinton. He probably surpasses JFK in this regard too. Far from some superficial quality, this charisma

and collection of inspirational, motivational, people, and verbal skills is going to pay very real dividends in

countless locales around the world, as well as at home. We need a little infusion of spirit and hope. We really,

really need it desperately. And he brings it.

We are going to experience an almost immediate leap in

international relations, in line with a shrinking world and the spirit of the times.

He is going to be committed

to a mastery of subject matters, and will have the mental energy to adequately study issues before acting.

The

last intangible I should mention is simply the American people. People are clamoring for real change, and are ready

to accomplish some of that, even if they have to drag Obama along kicking and screaming. The movement he brought

together clearly transcends him, and is itself the biggest force for change.

None of these personal and/or

intangible qualities have anything to do with his ideologic politics, from my perspective. Yet for me, they define

him.

Colin Powell called Obama a "transformational figure", which was right on. I reacted to Obama's candidacy

similarly to General Powell, who also was moved by the intangibles..

There is a certain amount of ideology and

political positions on issues I am willing to trade for certain "mega issues" or process issues that are important

to see in politicians for the present and future. I believe Obama has many of these important intangible issues

covered, enough to where he won my support.

[Holmes]

I'm waiting for

all the whiners to complain how a black got into a high office BEFORE a woman did.

He's biracial,

actually.

I don't care what color or gender he is. What's somehow more important (to me) is whether or not he

will be able to put his money where his mouth is.

We'll see what happens.

Oh, and good riddance, GWB.

[Holmes]

Colin

Powell called Obama a "transformational figure", which was right on. I reacted to Obama's candidacy similarly to

General Powell, who also was moved by the intangibles...

"Transformational figure" is sometimes, as

history has shown us, a dubious distinction.

Let's hope the President-elect is truly transformational in the

best possible sense, for everyone.

[belgareth]

There's never been a president

that has done as he promised. And many things Obama has promised are bad things, in my opinion. The biggest and, in

my opinion, stupidest mistake he is going to make is attempting to nationalize health care. Have you ever seen a

governemnt program that really worked and was cost effective? Like in EVERY country where healthcare has been

nationalized, cost will soar for everybody while quality goes in the toilet. I already buy almost all medical

supplies overseas and the practice is going to soar, as will the practice of the wealthy going elsewhere for medical

care, just like it is already happening in other countries with nationalized healthcare. The poor will get poor care

and the wealthy will go elsewhere.

[koolking1]

I'm always amazed that the

level of thought and conversation on this board surpasses any other board I post on.

"We need a little

infusion of spirit and hope. We really, really need it desperately. And he brings it."

That's a great

thought and I hope it comes to pass. While I didn't vote for President-elect Obama I have a level of optimistic

hope that has been missing from my life for a good long time. I told Sue, my girlfriend, that my litmus test for

him was written in stone and, just today, Obama has stated he will close down Gitmo, so he's passed my test, I'm

quite proud of him already. That policy has been the absolutely worst thing I've seen my country do in very recent

history.

Rumsfield and Rove are being dogged by ordinary citizens whereever they show up, the same will

happen to Bush and Cheney.

[Rbt]

He's biracial,

actually.

I don't care what color or gender he is. What's somehow more important (to me) is whether or not he

will be able to put his money where his mouth is.

We'll see what happens.

Oh, and good riddance,

GWB.

I probably should have put "black" in quotes. Kenyan father, Hawaiian mother. But there is such a

tendency, especially amongst those with the highest degree of bigotry IMO to skip the details and go for whatever

negative description they can find to bolster their "cause." I've already seen the news storied about cars with

Obama bumper stickers being vandalized with "W" scratched into the paint (a representation for "W"hite power?).

Never mind that some of the world's great civilizations were ruled by "non-whites" (and the citizens weren't white

either...).

One thing for sure. Obama is about the most charasmatic (soon to be) president we've had in quite

a while. But that "halo" could prove to be more hinderance than help as he is forced to battle this country's

problems without appearing to favor any one group over another. Those that think all their problems will go away

with a sweep of his legislative pen are in for some disappointments and disillusionment.

Time will tell.

[idesign]

One thing

for sure. Obama is about the most charasmatic (soon to be) president we've had in quite a while. But that "halo"

could prove to be more hinderance than help as he is forced to battle this country's problems without appearing to

favor any one group over another. Those that think all their problems will go away with a sweep of his legislative

pen are in for some disappointments and disillusionment.

Time will tell.

Have to agree with this Rbt,

especially now that the press has shifted from surrogate press offices to emulation factories. One more tome

portraying Obama as FDR, JFK, or Lincoln and I think I'll literally get sick. A more accurate comparison would be

Don King. A media frenzy billing a man who has DONE NOTHING as some kind of savior is ludicrous at best and

downright dangerous when you consider the power the media has on simple minds, which we apparantly have in bumper

crop numbers.

To those who are smart, and only misguided, don't be fooled unless you want to be. A hope in

gov't is no hope at all. It seems that Obama is all about gov't, with an ideology that offers no incentive for

anyone to produce anything other than policy based on dependence, and its sad result. I guess the comparison to FDR

could be somewhat accurate.

Every time I think of Obama the word "collective" inevitablly comes to mind. Does

that sound dangerous to anyone but me?

[idesign]

After a few cabinet picks we can

see that Obama responds well to his handlers. This is getting old before its even started. I can only hope that

Obama is the yawn before waking up again.

But I'm too cynical.

[Rbt]

After a few

cabinet picks we can see that Obama responds well to his handlers. This is getting old before its even started. I

can only hope that Obama is the yawn before waking up again.

But I'm too cynical.

Hey, this is US

"politics as usual." Did you really expect anything substantially different? Bush has been reacting to his "powers

behind the throne" for the past 8 years, just like just about every other President I can remember.

The only

real positive I'm seeing from this at the moment is the sigh of relief from the rest of the world that Bush and his

cronies are on the way out. We here may not see much diff, but the effect this election is having on the rest of the

planet seems to be positive, at least for the moment. Count what blessings we are able to get.

[InternationalPlayboy]

After a few cabinet picks we can see that Obama responds well to his handlers. This is

getting old before its even started. I can only hope that Obama is the yawn before waking up again.

But I'm

too cynical.

After the cabinet names started coming out, The Who's Won't Get Fooled Again

keeps playing in my mind. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. That's not to say that I think he's like

Bush, but that his platform was "change" and he's using so many Clinton veterans.

I voted for Bob Barr, who

got a big 300+ votes in my county. Have voted Libertarian for President since I was old enough to vote in the late

1970s. (Chuck Baldwin, Ron Paul's recommendation got seven votes.) But now that Obama's elected, I wish him the

best (and for the U.S. too). It is historic that he was elected, we've come a long way with racial issues. And at

least maybe he'll bring more respect from other countries than Bush did. I hated Reagan at the time, but Bush

really made me appreciate what Reagan was compared to the Presidents we've had since.

[Mtnjim]

(off topic)Hey IPB, long

time!!
Good to see ya, hope to see more posts from you!!\o/
(/off topic)

[belgareth]

After the cabinet names started coming out, The Who's Won't Get Fooled

Again keeps playing in my mind. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. That's not to say that I think

he's like Bush, but that his platform was "change" and he's using so many Clinton veterans.

Ayup, you

seem to have a good grasp. Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible about "Nothing new under the sun"?

[idesign]

I mostly agree with you guys,

once Obama started getting his briefings from various agencies and the White House he made a major shift from his

campaign rhetoric. Can you say "reality check?" We'll have to see what he does once he gets inaugurated.

One

thing I notice, his appointments are pretty much eliminating the Dem field for 2012. Clinton, Biden, Richardson et

al are not going to run from Cabinet positions against an incumbent, unless Obama flops really bad. Which he won't

if he just plays President. The financial and housing markets will be back up in 4 years if Obama keeps his hands

off as much as possible.

As for "world opinion". I read a lot of European sources these days, and now that the

initial adulation is waning, I'm seeing a lot of "lets see" attitudes. Lets face it, Obama has to actually do

something now, and I'm not sure that he can live up to his self-aggrandizing preaching.

[koolking1]

"The financial

and housing markets will be back up in 4 years if Obama keeps his hands off as much as possible."

There's a

plan afoot already to get the housing market going by introducing a fixed 4.5% loan for homebuyers. (lead article

on Huffingpost.com today). Given there's a real glut of homes on the market with no buyers approaching, it sounds

like a good plan to me, especially were it to be extended to existing homeowners and not to speculators and with no

provision to "take some equity out".

[Bruce]

Boy, did I pick the wrong time to go

into the spec home business. :-)
Actually, it's not quite so bad here in Eugene as in the rest of the US. I

heard that about the loan rates improving. Kind of weird that the whole mess got kicked off by the lack of loan

availability, and now nobody wants to buy noway nohow, and lenders have nobody to lend to.

[Rbt]

Bruce: if by "spec" home biz you

mean more or less custom "special built" type thing you may end up better off than others.

I've been seeing in

some of the biz mags that one of the few areas that seems to be doing well even now is anything that "builds to

order." People are getting so tight that they no longer want to buy "off the rack," getting stuck with paying for

things they don't want just to get the things they do want (like when buying a car off the dealer's lot).

The

custom sneaker/athletic shoe biz is supposedly booming (where you can design your own color combinations etc), and

things like Chase's "build you own credit card" are supposedly doing well too. It's also said that this is a real

boon to American businesses, as the custom stuff is usually made "locally" and not imported (too expensive to

ship).

Like most anything, it will be those who can adapt best who will survive.


.

[koolking1]

dropping too are

helping. If you don't get laid off, those extra gas bucks will help a lot.

[Bruce]

I had to look it up to make sure of

the origin of the "spec" in "spec homes", but it seems to come from the word "speculate". In any case, the builder

builds a home without having a buyer, spec-ulatiing, that he will be able to sell it to someone at a profit. So,

this is something different from a custom built home "to order" where you have the buyer all lined up and he tells

you exactly what he wants before you even break ground. In my case, I was hoping/expecting to have a buyer on board

before I got to the part where you pick out the flooring, paint, tile, cabinets and other kitchen stuff etc etc. ,

but as has been oft noted "the best laid plans of mice and men oft go astray" eh?

B

[idesign]

That's what we mean by "spec"

house in this neck of the woods too. I used to do a ton of spec houses in years past, but in the last 2 years

almost nothing. As a coastal/resort demographic our market rose and dropped earlier than most. Now 75% of

everything I do is high-end remodel, the remaining 25% high-end custom homes, fitting right in with Rbt's point.

Its a nice niche to be in. I'm a kitchen/bath/office etc designer/dealer and my average job price has risen

dramatically while total sales have dropped slightly. The good news is that profitability has increased. Gotta

love the rich, they keep us small peanuts players going.

In former days the contractors I did business with did

just what Bruce described, and pre-sold houses in time for color/material selections, and made more money on

upgrades. Now they're either out of business or holding or renting their properties at a loss.

Hope things are

looking up in your market Bruce.

[idesign]

"The

financial and housing markets will be back up in 4 years if Obama keeps his hands off as much as

possible."

There's a plan afoot already to get the housing market going by introducing a fixed 4.5% loan for

homebuyers. (lead article on Huffingpost.com today). Given there's a real glut of homes on the market with no

buyers approaching, it sounds like a good plan to me, especially were it to be extended to existing homeowners and

not to speculators and with no provision to "take some equity out".


That plan is still open to debate,

and who knows where the final plan will go. Like KK said, a big part of the problem of this plan is new buyers v.

existing owners. And as Bruce touched on, there's not a lot of willingness for anyone to act in the home market

now. The current plan disqualifies refinancing of existing mortgages, which is both good and bad, depending on how

viable the refinance is. Which is pretty darned hard to prove to the banks these days. The main problem with this

whole gov't bailout scenario of gov't. They don't do anything right.

Unless your assets are $700 billion

and/or irresponsibly unlimited. If you have those kind of funds you can tell anyone you want to go to hell, then,

after mismanaging your public trust, sanctimoniously shift blame for the problem and find new and more creative ways

to keep your position.

Offering a plan to new buyers at historically low rates might sell some homes, but then

again might exacerbate the problem that exists. After all, most of the housing problems we have now is low rates,

gov't programs (see Freddie and Fanny, see Chris Dodd) and easy money driving unqualified buyers into the

market.

All of that is moot if you consider the inevitable outcome of the plan. The US gov't will have de facto

ownership of private homes. This is so far beyond the Freddie and Fanny bailouts (bad enough) and is part of a

dangerous trend toward gov't ownership of private assets either through loans or direct investment. An ugly door

was opened when the financial companies were given carte blanche to gov't (our) funds to save their asses. The

message was sent that access to the public (our's again) debt is available to the rich and poor alike.

Responsibility has long left gov't, and now business, at our own behest.

I don't like it one bit, any of

it.

Don't even get me started on the Detroit (read Union, read private entitlement) problems. :) Or Organized

Labor's (read "show me the money") drive to eliminate private voting for membership. Who wants the 9.99 DVD

bargain bin to be 20.99?

[belgareth]

As you may have guessed, I was

and am opposed to the bailouts as another screwing of the taxpayer and government boondogle. Below is another

example. Bank of America gets $25 Billion while the workers get locked out and screwed. And people wonder why I am

so negative about the government that we have and will continue with the next person in office:

Angry

laid-off workers occupy factory in Chicago

By RUPA SHENOY, Associated Press Writer Rupa Shenoy, Associated

Press Writer 1 hr 7 mins ago
CHICAGO – Workers who got three days' notice their factory was shutting its

doors have occupied the building and say they won't go home without assurances they'll get severance and vacation

pay they say they are owed.
About 200 union workers occupied the Republic Windows and Doors plant in shifts

Saturday while union leaders outside criticized a Wall Street bailout they say is leaving laborers behind.
Leah

Fried, an organizer with the United Electrical Workers, said the Chicago-based vinyl window manufacturer failed to

give 60 days' notice required by law before shutting down.
During the peaceful takeover, workers have been

shoveling snow and cleaning the building, Fried said.
"We're doing something we haven't since the 1930s, so

we're trying to make it work," Fried said.
Protest organizers said the company can't pay employees because its

creditor, Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America, won't let them. Crain's Chicago Business reported that Republic

Windows' monthly sales had fallen to $2.9 million from $4 million during the past month. In a memo to the union,

obtained by the business journal, Republic CEO Rich Gillman said the company had "no choice but to shut our

doors."
Bank of America received $25 billion from the government's financial bailout package.
"Across cultures,

religions, union and nonunion, we all say this bailout was a shame," said Richard Berg, president of Teamsters Local

743. "If this bailout should go to anything, it should go to the workers of this country."
Outside the plant,

protesters wore stickers and carried signs that said, "You got bailed out, we got sold out."
Larry Spivack,

regional director for American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, Council 31, said the peaceful

action will add to Chicago's rich history in the labor movement, which includes the 1886 Haymarket affair, when

Chicago laborers and anarchists gathering in a square on the city's west side drew national attention when an

unidentified person threw a bomb at police.
"The history of workers is built on issues like this here today,"

Spivack said.
Representatives of Republic Windows did not immediately respond Saturday to calls and e-mails seeking

comment.
Police spokeswoman Laura Kubiak said authorities were aware of the situation and officers were patrolling

the area.
Workers were angered when company officials didn't show up for a meeting Friday that had been arranged

by U.S. Rep. Luis Gutierrez, a Chicago Democrat, Fried said. Union officials said another meeting with the company

is scheduled for Monday afternoon.
"We're going to stay here until we win justice," said Blanca Funes, 55, of

Chicago, after occupying the building for several hours. Speaking in Spanish, Funes said she fears losing her home

without the wages she feels she's owed. A 13-year employee of Republic, she estimated her family can make do for

three months without her paycheck. Most of the factory's workers are Hispanic.

[belgareth]

INTERESTING

FACTS ----- NOTICE LINK AND

MAP AT BOTTOM


Some unreported stats about the

2008 election
Professor Joseph

Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul , Minnesota

,
points out some interesting facts concerning the

2008 Presidential election:

-Number of States won by: Democrats: 20; Republicans:

30

-Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000; Republicans: 2,427,000

-Population of counties won by:

Democrats: 127 million; Republicans: 143 million

-Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:

Democrats: 13.2; Republicans: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won

was
mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens. Democrat territory

mostly
encompassed those citizens living in rented or government-owned tenements

and
living off various forms of government welfare..."
Olson believes the United

States is now somewhere between the "complacency
and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition

of democracy, with some forty
percent of the nation's population already having reached the

"governmental
dependency" phase.


*******************************
http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/cid:874E992D-E6B0-

4651-9791-819CC849543C

Notice that

only in the states of Alaska and Oklahoma : All counties were won by McCain/Palin.


The original posting with this

information is below this Newsweek article at this link:

h

ttp://www.newsweek.com/id/163337 (http://www.newsweek.com/id/163337).

[InternationalPlayboy]

(off topic)Hey IPB, long time!!
Good to see ya, hope to see more posts from you!!\o/


(/off topic)


Thanks Mtnjim, I was doing most of my posting at work and they are monitoring

computer usage more and also blocking sites. I can no longer get into my meditation teacher's website there as

it's considered "occult/alternate spirituality." Can still get to Christian websites though.

The talk about

the housing market reminded me of something I've noticed on TV. The Discovery channel had a show, "Flip This

House," where they would feature people who buy fixer-uppers and try to turn them around for profit within a few

weeks. The show's real estate agent who was kind of the resident expert now has a new show in the same time slot,

where existing homeowners make home improvements to try to get a better mortgage or sell it outright.

And as

my remarks about "same as the old boss," I read a column recently by a conservative writer that says not to let your

guard down. Though Obama has surrounded himself with old school politicians, he will still be the one making the

final decisions. So they may be camoflage to hide his socialist agenda.

[idesign]

And as my remarks about "same as the old boss," I read a column recently by

a conservative writer that says not to let your guard down. Though Obama has surrounded himself with old school

politicians, he will still be the one making the final decisions. So they may be camoflage to hide his socialist

agenda.


Interesting remarks. Your "same as the old boss" comment would be true no matter who the new

Pres. would be. Political realities at this level will override the ideology of even the most ridiculous of zealots

once they understand that the world is not a static set of assumptions.

The danger with Obama is that he's a

completely unknown entity based on an unaccomplished past. If you consider his campaign rhetoric he's an

unthinking panderer at worst, or a skillfully shifting "finger in the wind" politician at best. He's shown the

qualities of both, but not much else. His much vaunted intellect is not in evidence, indeed, he seems to be

robotically setting up the next Clinton/Bush admistration, if that makes any sense, and I don't see anything good

coming from anywhere.

He's going to have a big problem with someone qualified willing to accept CIA. He

burned those bridges with Holder as Attorney General. Maybe Powell, but its a glaring hole in Obama's Nat'l

Security admin, for good reason, and there must be some soul searching going on in some quarters.

One big danger

lies in the Obama/Reid/Pilosi triumvirate. In this scenario, one could even picture Obama being a moderating

influence on Congress within a brotherhood of thieves. One can only hope, but its not me.

An interesting

aspect of all this is the press. If anything, they deplore being proven wrong, and their selling their souls to

Obama may turn ugly if things don't improve. At least that would be entertaining while eating beans and rice.

[idesign]

Their and our

democracy

The US elections but underline that the Arab region has far to go on the path to political

freedom, writes Amin Howeidi* (http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/925/op1.htm#1) in Al-Ahram Weekly,

Cairo



http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/925/op1.htm

A tremendous shift is taking place in

American society. It is too early to tell whether this shift will do us any good. We've all heard Obama

saying all the right things, but deeds are another story. [emphasis mine] Is he going to be able to face up

to the Zionist lobby? Are white supremacists going to make an attempt on his life?

Poster's note:

Great analysis, hold us up as a model, then stereotype our culture -and your own- with comments about "Zionists" and

"white supremacists".

Its becoming increasingly clear to me that Int'l approval of Obama

is based on a prevailing view that he'll override national interests for a popular world opinion. But even

they are skeptical.

[idesign]

Obama Becoming A Man for All

Seasons

Khaleej Times, Dubai

Debbie Menon 9 December 2008

It would seem that US

President-elect, Barrack Hussein Obama is becoming the man for all seasons.

His promise of hope is so

non-committal and non-specific that he is offering a pair of magic shoes that fit all feet.

It is like a plan

for the revolution, but someone has to step to the fore, turn the right way, and start the march. It is going to be

a long one, wherever it goes for America, and no one has really mentioned the destination as yet.

I do not

think his new slogan “You can do it” will catch on. The Obama I have been watching all year did not seem

like a man who would need slogans once safely in the driver’s seat. The candy Obama offers is like Forrest

Gump’s Chocolate box of Whitman Samplers, there is a piece in there for everyone, but no one knows yet,

exactly what they are going to get.

snip

For he has promised the poor, the deprived, the unemployed, the

homeless and hopeless new shoes that fit all feet, and I wonder how he will deliver! I am more concerned about

Obama’s goals, agenda and direction than the degree of success with which he does it, or fails at it. Is Obama

cool, calm and collected? Or is he simply cold and calculating? That we shall wait and

see...

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...n=opinion&col= (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/opinion/2008/December/opinion_December39.x

ml&section=opinion&col=)