I'm happy to report hits with A7/APC combo. But i want to be more scientific

[neiltrain2]

hi,
I have been using pheros for years, usually in the past large doses

of NPA or APC or a combo of the two. I started using when i was about 31 and i'm no way an alpha-male so i guess i

can get away with larger doses.

I was never overly interested in the science because i was out EVERY night and

if my phero combo only worked 20% of the time, well, that's a decent hit every week so i was always satisfied.



Now, however, that's all changed. i need my pheros to do the job on specific occasions and there is little room

for error!

i recently got a new batch, and tried APC/A7 as a combo on a date. WOw! serious DIHL. she was

smitten, totally.

i used about 4 drops of each. on the wrists and behind the ears. i then added cologne to

other spots. not on top of the pheros. What i noticed was the continuous waft of the APC during our date, it didnt

seem to bother her at all, she was absolutely hypnotised by me, it was cool:)

I'm meeting her again next week

and although i'll be using roughly the same amounts i have a few Qs about application points and mixing on skin.

I've checked the phero library none of this seems to be covered, and i REALLY wanna get it right.

i went out

and about last night and today "experimenting" with APC and a cologne mixed on the same skin area. I applied APC

---> cologne ---> a little more APC for luck. i ensured each was still wet when adding the other so they mixed well

on my skin. i applied, as usual to wrists and behind ears. so the questions are:

1. is there a chance that

mixing APC/cologne on the same spotwould lessen the range/effect of the APC as cologne is not oil based? it took

away the noticeable waves of APC coming off of me, was it lessening the effectiveness or range?

2. application

points. i've always been told that pulse-points (neck/wrists/behind ears) are best, does that mean that forearms

are less effective? it's only that i'm thinking of adding some unscented SOE to the mix.

furthermore, does

anyone have an opinion on using APC and cologne on different parts of the body? it's whAt i did last time with

this girl, and it worked, but as mentioned i'd rather have just ONE smell coming off of me:) all opinions on this

welcome
thanks,

neil

[terry0400-40]

hi,
I have been using pheros for years, usually in the past large doses of NPA or APC or

a combo of the two. I started using when i was about 31 and i'm no way an alpha-male so i guess i can get away with

larger doses.

I was never overly interested in the science because i was out EVERY night and if my phero combo

only worked 20% of the time, well, that's a decent hit every week so i was always satisfied.

Now, however,

that's all changed. i need my pheros to do the job on specific occasions and there is little room for error!

i

recently got a new batch, and tried APC/A7 as a combo on a date. WOw! serious DIHL. she was smitten, totally.

i

used about 4 drops of each. on the wrists and behind the ears. i then added cologne to other spots. not on top of

the pheros. What i noticed was the continuous waft of the APC during our date, it didnt seem to bother her at all,

she was absolutely hypnotised by me, it was cool:)

I'm meeting her again next week and although i'll be using

roughly the same amounts i have a few Qs about application points and mixing on skin. I've checked the phero

library none of this seems to be covered, and i REALLY wanna get it right.

i went out and about last night and

today "experimenting" with APC and a cologne mixed on the same skin area. I applied APC ---> cologne ---> a little

more APC for luck. i ensured each was still wet when adding the other so they mixed well on my skin. i applied, as

usual to wrists and behind ears. so the questions are:

1. is there a chance that mixing APC/cologne on the same

spotwould lessen the range/effect of the APC as cologne is not oil based? it took away the noticeable waves of APC

coming off of me, was it lessening the effectiveness or range?

2. application points. i've always been told

that pulse-points (neck/wrists/behind ears) are best, does that mean that forearms are less effective? it's only

that i'm thinking of adding some unscented SOE to the mix.

furthermore, does anyone have an opinion on using

APC and cologne on different parts of the body? it's whAt i did last time with this girl, and it worked, but as

mentioned i'd rather have just ONE smell coming off of me:) all opinions on this welcome
thanks,



neilThe APC fragrance seems to be appreciated by most women as it is rather crisp and

refreshing with a very subtle hint of warm intoxication, yeah very subtle.



Probably can use it ok with other fragrances because APC tends to fade out fast enough for my

reconing anyway.

And some colognes and or fragrances do compliment

one another nicely and some tend to clash and cancel each other out and then appear squished and flat, so it takes

some good practice to get a few favourites added to ones top shelf place.

[neiltrain2]

it isn't so much the mix of

fragrances i'm concerned about. i'm worried that mixing somehow takes the power out of the APC? i mean, i assume

that colognes are mainly alcohol based. well, they're certainly not oil-based.

would cologne IN THE SAME SPOT

as APC somehow lessen the effect? cos it isn't the scent that attracts , it's the (admittedly low) phero content

isn't it.

it just seems like adding a cologne inhibits the APC from travelling....

could there be any truth

to this or is the APC still as effective if mixed with a cologne?

would it help to let the cologne dry on my

skin before adding the APC? currently i apply both to my skin one after another and mix them in, wet, on my skin.



is that just as effective as any other method?

thanks

[terry0400-40]

it

isn't so much the mix of fragrances i'm concerned about. i'm worried that mixing somehow takes the power out of

the APC? i mean, i assume that colognes are mainly alcohol based. well, they're certainly not oil-based.

would

cologne IN THE SAME SPOT as APC somehow lessen the effect? cos it isn't the scent that attracts , it's the

(admittedly low) phero content isn't it.

it just seems like adding a cologne inhibits the APC from

travelling....

could there be any truth to this or is the APC still as effective if mixed with a cologne?



would it help to let the cologne dry on my skin before adding the APC? currently i apply both to my skin one after

another and mix them in, wet, on my skin.

is that just as effective as any other method?



thanksAny alcohol type based cologne will accellerate the the diffusion of the oil based

pheromone and therefore will give you the initial application advantage with a strong rush of the pheromone and then

settle down somewhat at a lower concentration than that of an oil base only

application.

So these type of effects can be taken into

consideration when intending to add fast evapouration alcohol type colognes to the mix, by increasing the oil base

component, so as to possably have the initial pheromone rush, and also a greater residual pheromone dispersion rate

than one would have obtained with less initial oil base concentrated pheromone

used.

I think i could obtain some knowledge on the subject if i

also did have some study on the dry down process of the oil concentrates compared to the Alcohol type formulations.



There is so much to be learned on the subject of pheromones and

fragrances and i dont think i have even scratched the surface, but i do pick up a tid bit here and there on the

various forums ect.

[neiltrain2]

OK, acting stupid here, you

mean that there would be an initial kick and then there would be less oil-based pheromone scent after some time?



ie. that adding the cologne to the mix would, indeed, ensure less effective pheromones over a period of hours?



what if i let the cologne dry and then added the APC? would it last longer this way?

[terry0400-40]

OK, acting stupid here, you mean that there would be an initial kick and then there would

be less oil-based pheromone scent after some time?

ie. that adding the cologne to the mix would, indeed, ensure

less effective pheromones over a period of hours?

what if i let the cologne dry and then added the APC? would it

last longer this way?Yes there would be the initial kick with a fast dispersion of the mix

when using colognes type base.

But as you say if you spray the

cologne and let it dry down somewhat then cover with the oil base concentrate it sorta seems logical that the oil

base should be preserved for a longer period of time.

I am usually

in a bit off a rush and i apply my applications from a pre mixed sprayer when i arrive at my target site most times.



But as you mention it is good practice to spray the cologne and

after it's dried down then apply the oil component.

I have had

some very good success when spraying cologne and then after drydown adding my SOE and Alpha 7, I really should take

the time and do it more often, now that you have brought it to my attention thank you.

[neiltrain2]

damn, i WISH i made a note

of my mixes before i go out. whatever combo of APC/A7 i used meeting this girl was SOOOO successful. hope i can

replicate it......

ok, final question:

does it make a difference which i apply to my skin first? APC

or A7? i will apply one after the other, they will both be wet.....

would the effect of the first be

lessened by the second if applying both, wet, to the same spot and mixing? i hope not but would like to be

sure:)!

[terry0400-40]

damn, i WISH i made a note of my mixes before i go out. whatever combo of APC/A7 i used

meeting this girl was SOOOO successful. hope i can replicate it......

ok, final question:

does it make a

difference which i apply to my skin first? APC or A7? i will apply one after the other, they will both be wet.....



would the effect of the first be lessened by the second if applying both, wet, to the same spot and mixing? i hope

not but would like to be sure:)!Hey good going with the APC/A7 combo, Yeah Alpha 7 is really

good gear and is just so versitile i love the stuff.

Mixing the

unscented A7 with the APC will work very well, just go by the smell and apply a little extra APC if necessary, The

A7 effect will last for hours and when you notice the APC fragrance diminishing then just refresh by rubbing in a

few dabs of the APC to the application site and you will be good to go again Recharged for prolonged action. \o/

[neiltrain2]

thanks! worked a treat last

time i met this girl so best stick with the same i reckon....

i just cant remember which i applied first- A7

or APC and want to do whatever it was i did last time. so you dont see any difference if the A7 is first or second

on my skin? guess it shouldnt make any difference if both wet and oil based, should mix well is my view

[terry0400-40]

thanks! worked a treat last time i met this girl so best stick with the same i

reckon....

i just cant remember which i applied first- A7 or APC and want to do whatever it was i did last time.

so you dont see any difference if the A7 is first or second on my skin? guess it shouldnt make any difference if

both wet and oil based, should mix well is my viewIf you were to apply the APC on top of a

dried down A7 application, then that would slow the A7 diffusion rate down

somewhat.

But your idea of mixing them together wet seems very

workable to me, and you will get a consistant dispersion rate in so doing.



Would be a good idea to have a small quantity of the A7/APC mix in a small roller bottle to carry,

I usually have an Alpha 7 / Alpha 314 combo in a used NPA 5 mL bottle as a carry around if i have a long day of

meetings to adress.

[neiltrain2]

what do you mean slower

dispersion rate? you mean that the A7 will last longer if it's on first, and dry? won't it be less effective as

the APC is going on top?

think i should stick to applying both wet....... that way i know i've got one drop

of each on each wrist and one drop of each behind the ears which worked sooooo well last time:)

[belgareth]

If it isn't broke, don't fix

it. Your method worked for you and seemingly worked well. I'd keep doing the same thing.

[neiltrain2]

thanks, i certainly want to

use the same combo again:) my only prob is i cant remember if i applied the A7 or the APC first:( i really should

keep notes.......

if it doesnt make any difference then i'm safe, that's what i'm trying to work

out.......

[belgareth]

If you are applying wet I

don't believe it makes any difference at all. If you are applying dry I imagine that the APC applied over the A7

would tend to slow down the rate in which the mones spread into the air but I doubt the difference will be all that

large.

[MOBLEYC57]

If

you are applying wet I don't believe it makes any difference at all. If you are applying dry I imagine that the

APC applied over the A7 would tend to slow down the rate in which the mones spread into the air but I doubt the

difference will be all that large.

If I may, I'd like to aggree up there.

How old are you two,

NeilT?

How long before you two met for your date did you apply your mones?

Seems like APC mixed with or

applied over A7 would work. Some say APC's scent disappears, BUT! You have to take into account that we often (the

male user) think the scent is gone when it's actually still alive and kicking. :POKE:

Note:

IF her impression was good/positive ... it's still carrying the same status, no matter how you mix

and match your mones. \o/ :drunk: :cheers:

[neiltrain2]

hi,

thanks. i just

wanted to be 100% sure that it makes absolutely no difference which is applied first.

i wouldn't mind if i

knew which i applied first last time but as i cant remember and wish to replicate her incredibly good reaction to

the mones...........:)

i'm 36, and non-Alpha. i've used bucketloads of NPA in the past and found it to

work, i need to try really hard to OD.

yeah, i prefer if I can detect the smell, makes me feel like the mones

are in the air. something like A7 is hard for me to use: i KNOW it's there, but as i cant smell it i sometimes

wonder how it can be working....... i know it's only a psychological problem but the cover scent of APC at least

lets me know something is being carried in the air.

i DID have the problem last week (not with the same girl,

just experimenting before i meet her again) of applying cologne and APC both wet - the APC smell seemed to disappear

very quickly again dont know if that's all in my mind again......

well, tomorrow meeting this girl

again.
gonna go for cologne first, let it dry.

then APC and A7 (in that order) applied wet to wrists and

behind ears.
if it works again, i'm gonna be really overjoyed:)

....i'm pretty sure i applied A7 first

the last time around, was probably worried about it being stinky and hence covered it with the APC.

if you

reckon there's no difference to the potency of either, no matter the order in which they're applied, i'm

happy:)

whatever, i'll HAVE to report back after this thread seems to have taken on quite a life of its

own....

[belgareth]

Perhaps I'm a little more

cynical than most but, from my perspective, there is a lot of voodoo involved in using pheromones. It's hard for me

to believe that the exact application points make all that much difference unless you are putting mones in places

where they can't difuse into the air as easily, like under your clothes. Perhaps higher places on your body reduce

effectiveness because your body is warm and there should be a constant upflow of warmed air around you making it

hard for shorter people to detect the mones. I personally feel that my bare forearms are one of the best application

points because they are either fairly low or right out in front of me where others might be getting the best

possible exposure.

The mones I use are in a thin liquid and I apply them first just out of habit. Then I apply

my cover directly over the mones without ever worrying about dry down. The covers I use are either Pheros or Musk

Oil and Oud. It works for me so I am not inclined to change the way I do it. If a specific method is working for

you, don't change it. If you aren't sure, experiment but don't take any of us as being experts because there is

no such thing.

[Rbt]

You can just experiment with

different application methods and see what happens, although you almost need to do it "blind" so you don't have

preconceived notions, especially given the many other variables that can influence pheromone effects. I've seen

days where a certain pheromone application seems to work wonders on someone, then get absolutly nothing from the

same person on another day.

I recall many discussions on this "which to do first" subject but I don't think

anything was ever resolved, except for when you used something like Perception, which was designed specifically to

slow diffusion and was meant to be applied as a "top coat."

[Sodbuster]

I'm going to chip in a

little advice here as well. :wave: In my personal experience, the effects of the pheromones far outlast my ability

to smell them. It's like my nose gets used to the smell and then tunes it out, almost an animal thing (tuning out

the smells that are 'normal' to be able to catch and identify new smells). I would be willing to bet that the

pheromones from your A7/APC combination are still running strong despite the fact that you can no longer smell them.

That's why I usually wait about an hour or so before reapplying, and never apply as much as I did on the first

application.

So, have you met this babe a second time yet?!

[neiltrain2]

yeah, i think i

ODed:(

i always have this nasty habit of re-applying a large amount. guess it wasn't the APC, difficult to

OD on that stuff, but i might have overdone the A7.

having said that, she wasn't in the best of moods that

day, so it quite possibly wasn't me.

i havent given up hope on the girl though, if she wants to play hard to

get, then that's the game we'll play.

'course, if you meet someone several times, they're bound also to

be ovulating one time or another aren't they? that couldda put her off or she may just have been feeling rough

like she said...

well, WHEN i see her for a 3rd time i might just use some NPA - a sort of all-out attacking

philosophy. whether success or failure, NPA does it in style:)

[terry0400-40]

I'm going to chip in a little advice here as well. :wave: In my personal experience, the

effects of the pheromones far outlast my ability to smell them. It's like my nose gets used to the smell and then

tunes it out, almost an animal thing (tuning out the smells that are 'normal' to be able to catch and identify new

smells). I would be willing to bet that the pheromones from your A7/APC combination are still running strong despite

the fact that you can no longer smell them. That's why I usually wait about an hour or so before reapplying, and

never apply as much as I did on the first application.

So, have you met this babe a second time

yet?!:goodpost: Reps 4U, 4a great post.

My

Sheela often remarks that i have that sexy smell again, usually about 3 or 4 hours after my application of

A7.

[Rbt]

<snip>

'course, if you meet someone several times, they're bound also to be ovulating one time or another

aren't they? that couldda put her off or she may just have been feeling rough like she said...

</snip>






And that right there is part of the "rub" with pheromone usage. So much can depend on a multitude

of variables including just how well the day has been going and "phase of the moon" (monthly cycles).

I have

learned from experimentation that some things go better at other times of the month than others with specific women.

Granted in your usual group situations there should be enough variance to insure someone is at their receptive peak

(but also there is a good chance someone in in their most depressing valley).

Plus some people react more

strongly than others to "time of the month" chemical changes. For some it is mild to nonexistant, for others it can

be major. I've even noticed some women who claim to be unaffected do indeed show subbtle differenced in behavior

and in their reactions to pheromones.

It can be beneficial to be observant especially if you have some specific

targets. Take the time to watch for and learn both the physical and behaviorial clues. It can pay off well.



:thumbsup:

[idesign]

neiltrain, you're getting great

advice from the guys.

I would only add my experience of "residual effects", which I did not believe at first,

but as I observed more closely (thanks Rbt) I saw differences in how people reacted to my presence even the next

day, without re-application. Also, I usually apply well before I go out, at least an hour and often more.

As for

being scientific, I just slap on what I think would be good for the situation and go, but I DO remember what I wear

and the reactions I get. :)

[terry0400-40]

neiltrain, you're getting great advice from the guys.

I would only add my experience of

"residual effects", which I did not believe at first, but as I observed more closely (thanks Rbt) I saw differences

in how people reacted to my presence even the next day, without re-application. Also, I usually apply well before I

go out, at least an hour and often more.

As for being scientific, I just slap on what I think would be good for

the situation and go, but I DO remember what I wear and the reactions I get. :)Yeah same here

Greg, even though i have a vast stock of variable mix sprays that i make up just to fullfill the creative side of my

nature, when comes time to go out i dont scrutenise my application as if my next heartbeat was going to be dependant

upon it.

I just apply summat that sorta suits the outing and i

just go out and enjoy my self.

I get out and about socially have a

good time and the pheromones are like taking a seat somewhere in the back row of my mind, That is until they latch

onto a suitable receptor site and then all of a sudden phero reality steps in and then i realize " Hey i have a hit

scene goin on here lol "

Whilst at home doing the chores and

paying the bills and answering emails and posting on the forums,
I just about always have a

little mix sprayed on my fore arm or the back of my left hand, simply because of the fact that i am always testing

the fragrance aspect and dynamics of Ie cologne/ phero mix, or phero/ parfum mixes and taking

notes.

Most times i spray, or layer my mix as i am walking out the

door, or even as i am getting out of the car for my appointment/date whatever, But maby i should take a leaf outa

your book and apply an hour in advance, because my hits usually take about an hour to ignite .



Even with NPA for the first hour at least i come across as the

invisible man, and after the first hour i have to be very carefull not to go breaking any commandments when the NPA

decides to show its magic trix lol. :angel:

[idesign]

Guys, picking up on all of the

remarks here I really think pheromone usage is pretty much science looking for a good composer. It takes a lot of

time and effort to get a good tune, and not everyone will like what you play. But when you find it, the house

rocks. Of course its not uncommon to get a hit right out of the box.

There's a lot to think about and plan for

when wearing this stuff, if you're inclined that way, and you really need to "know thyself" and your

target/situation to make things work. I take a more intuitive approach, someone else will be more scientific,

either way there is more unknown than what is known.

I believe that over-thinking is less useful than

experimentation and experience. The most important thing is a solid body of knowledge from reading and then

doing.

dos centavos

[Rbt]

<snip>

I

believe that over-thinking is less useful than experimentation and experience. The most important thing is a solid

body of knowledge from reading and then doing.

dos centavos

Personally I think

some folks who keep playing with mixes down to the smallest mcg of a product are oft losing sight of the objective

(forest) for the trees.

Pheromones are really just such a small part of the overall equasion (which includes

personality, behavior, attitude, and whatever other intangibles you may want to add) that I find it silly to get too

obsessive. Same goes for cover scents and the like. Yes they are part of the whole, but so often such a small

part...

Concentrate more on WHO you are, not WHAT you are. At least for LTR. I can see where for ONS and

"bar-scene" stuff more emphasis can be put on "outside appearance" and "presentation," but eventually the foundation

will need to be strong if you want the structure to withstand the tests of time.

[belgareth]

Excellent point! I completely

agree with you. Personally, I'm pretty sloppy about amounts, which could vary as much as 100&#37; from one

application to the next, but my results stay consistant.