Sexual Key e-book; What do you think?

[Bruce]

Hello Folks,

I am thinking about selling an NLP type linguistic seduction program at Love Scent probably as a package with certain products. You can help me test this one, called the Sexual Key. It was written by J.D. Fuentes. The author gave me a PDF format sample that I can give out to you folks for your perusal, testing and comments.
Please download and have a look: http://love-scent.com/sexualkey.html (\"http://love-scent.com/sexualkey.html\")

After you have given it a read, please let me know what you think. Questions that come to mind are:
A. Have you ever seen this e-book before? If so, how would you rate it in the full-version?
B. Have you seen/read other psychic persuasion materials before and if so, how does this compare?
C. From what you have read here, does this look like something you might be interested in exploring further? If so, is it something you might be willing to buy in its full version? Alone? In a package with some pheromone products?
D. How would you rate this book in terms of its fairness and respect towards women? Personally, although, I haven\'t sampled many such books, the ones I have come across until now seemed obviously negative towards women, and I wouldn\'t want them connected with Love Scent (both male and female responses welcome here of course)

Anything else you have to say on the subject is great too. Fire away; better to find out now than down the road somewhere.

Thanks in advance!
I Remain Yours,
Bruce

[Paul canada]

Hi Bruce:

From a marketing perspective sure give it a try!! However, I would never buy anything like this I just don\'t agree with NLP.
This is just my opnion. images/icons/smile.gif

Keep up the good work!!

Paul

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi Bruce,

I just downloaded the sample script. It seems like easy reading material. I for one have never read any book similar to this one, but I must admit it did peak my curiosity. Is this fair to women however? Well...let\'s be honest. When you get down to the nitty gritty, we all poses certain \"animal\" instincts, those insticts obviously relating to sex. That being said, I feel that if women are willing to open up and \"connect\" with someone, it comes down to an issue of finding the right approach. This book it seems has that right approach. It doesn\'t tell you to go and force yourself on a woman, there is always the opportunity of getting turned down. This book\'s approach appears to give you the \"edge\" or \"advantage\" in opening up and letting a woman\'s guard down, which it seems she wants to do anyway, she\'s just looking for the right path for the man to take.

At least this is what I got from the opening transcript. I maybe dead wrong, but I\'m sure everyone else will have their own opinion. To be honest I would consider purchasing this book but probably only as a packaged deal as one of your special offers where it is discounted.

BTW, how much were you considering on selling this book alone, or as part of a package.

Thanks,
marz

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Bruce,
It sounds somewhat similar to Ross Jefferies stuff. I wonder if you could find out how similar it is. I have read some of Ross\' stuff and it was interesting but, I would find it very hard to incorporate in a conversation with a woman becuase it was mostly memorized text and stories, and I think for anything to work it has to flow freely from your mouth and seem as if it came straight from your brain as opposed to something you have memorized. So, interested ....a little, but I would be very curious exactly what it taught you..hopefully not memorized language and storys to tell, because that does not work...it appears and sounds fake to a woman. Keep us updated. images/icons/crazy.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It would be cool to learn better how to communicate w/ women but if it is like Ross Jeffreis stuff it better be a hell of a lot cheaper than Ross\'s stuff. Serously, Ross charges too damn much for his stuff. I think anything that will help me learn more about women is definately worth my time but Ross wants too much. So if this is similar to Ross\'s work but cheaper it would be great.
Thanks

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, although I don´t like this stuff very much, I don´t think it treats women bad like fastseduction.com does.

What would be the price for a book like this?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Having said that, I would like to read more about it if it really works and if it is available for a fair price. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi Bruce.

Regarding sexualkey I have the system.
I Just received it last week so i havent had much time to test it out.

Basically what it is , it shows you how to arouse womens emotions with words in a differnet kind of way.
It is like speed seduction but better, except it does not focus on confidence with women.

If i get any results, I will post to this board,but other than that, it is quite good ebook, 7-8 out of 10 in my opinion only because it is a bit hard to understand for me.

Matt

[travis]

Bruce,

I think this will help guys in the forum who are shy to girls to be blant. I\'d say Bruce go for it. Part of what I read are true that women get and interested and aroused through words. I remember twenty 23 years ago I have been using this technique arousing girls trough words majority of girls that I conversed with land inside the Motel. I have been using this techniques before casually, its like normal conversation or just joking around with girls. It works though.

Travis

[travis]

Another thing, if your intention of having a Pheromone is to get a girls laid, no matter how good is your combo is, if you can not tell the girls I want to have sex with nothing will happen for get of buying Pheromone.

When you go home you\'ll be asking yourself why did you not ask her to have sex. And what, you wil be ending up playing your dick to get arouse.My opinion.

Just remember this phrase \" SO WHAT IF SHE TURNS ME DOWN, AT LEAST I TRIED\". But what if was the other way around.... images/icons/laugh.gif Can you see where I\'m coming from.... MAN !! I\'m 38 years old ready and I have many experiences of these already.

I\'d say my teenage life was fun.

[CJ01]

Bruce,
To make it short and simple it´s hidious, I´m afraid you might be putting your credibility at risk if you start with this sort of thing. Apart from the fact that it is too much to do with this Jeffries guy (he´s in the credits list)who is a COMPLETE insult to any woman with half a brain.

These type of things are a rip-off and useless too. Plus judging from this extract it does not have much, if anything, to do with NLP at all.
It just goes on about throwing all women (and men) into one pot, it´s generalizing from beginning to end, which btw is one mistake so many men tend to make and ènd up being confused.

NLP is about changing yourself not waffling on about sexist non-sense.
To all the guys who have concerns about being shy etc, alot of women really like men who are a bit shy. Just make the best of what you have already, personality, looks, intelligence and so on and you should have no problems with meeting someone.

Ehrr... I said I´d make this short so I had better stop now but my personal advice is (to Bruce or anyone else for that matter) like I said, don´t waste your time and money with this stuff! Using pheros is one thing but this stuff, no way.
I can´t believe that anyone here actually paid money to buy anything from this RJ guy!

One more thing, it might sound like I´m being feministic or paranoid or something, but I have also read similar things about men, written by women and they suck too! None of these women versus men stuff is ever fair, logical, correct or truthful.

See you CJ

[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: CJ01 ]

[CJ01]

PS I think genuine NLP is a good thing because it´s about self-improvement, there was link to a website ages ago it also had a software to download it was for NLP and it works via computer.., maybe someone could post it again, I ´ve looked for it but was not able to find it, it was posted on the old board.
CJ images/icons/smile.gif

Bruce why don´t you ask your wife about the contents of the e-book also, then you get another womens opinion not just mine.
images/icons/smile.gif

[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: CJ01 ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If I were you Bruce, I wouldnt risk my good name by starting to sell this kind of stuff. images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thats kind of true, I never thought about it affecting Bruce\'s name/reputation. Although from what I read it seems that the guy treats women w/ respect which is very good. But then again he does quote Ross Jeffreis and Ross doesn\'t so Ross kind of ruins it for everybody else.
But I think It sounds interesting because he put down the research on the brain scans (I would like the info on the article to read it thoroughly and straight from the journal)
That would make the paper more credible too

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m with CJ on this -- for a different reason. I think one of love-scent\'s biggest strengths is credibility in a market that makes some pretty incredible claims.

I was very skeptical of pheromones -- or that I would get any product that actually had them in the product. Bruce, your approach on love-scent made all the difference in the world -- money-back guarantee, everyone\'s products (with notes that this is kind of weak, but we carry everyone), the forum here -- all speak credibility, which is what it takes to get a smart guy to part with his money. There\'s no snake-oil pitches anywhere here.

I think selling anything other than pheros undermines this crebility, and when you start getting into NLP and potentially misogynist books, it really undermines things. After all, people are having to take a leap just on the pheros, given all the programming out that that it\'s a scam, water in a bottle, etc.

If you do want to sell this stuff, don\'t contaminate the love-scent brand with it. Start up a new site and sell it there instead!

[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: Scientist ]

[Bruce]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Both positive and negative are crucial to making a rational decision about materials like this. Keep it coming though. I am glad CJ broke the ice with the idea that such materials may be anti women, but let\'s take a good hard (no NLP intended here images/icons/smile.gif ) look at both the sample we have on the table and the reasons for any problems it may pose.

One thing that came to mind after reading the comments is that it would be great to see a women\'s version of this. CJ, do you think you can find that? After reading your comment, I went back through this e-book very carefully, sentence by sentence looking for \"hideous\" stuff, and I really could only find one item of what I would call truly offensive material and that is the heading of one section using the word \"monkey.\" I don\'t think the author intended to say that women are monkeys and men are not, but considering the sensitve nature of the material, I think more care obviously needs to be taken. Other than that, the only ethical problems I can see are:
A. The materials are teaching men how to manipulate women for their own pleasure, and don\'t teach women how to do the same to men.
B. The procedure described in this book may not work.

Any other specific problems?

Bruce

[Bruce]

OK, I\'m starting to smell the coffee. There has GOT to be a \"right\" way to do that kind of thing though. Unless of course it is just a bunch of BS. That is the big question in my mind now.... I mean, OK, I know for a fact that you can do amazing things with language and imagery, and of course women ARE different from men (in general of course), but doesn\'t this arousal with words thing work equally well for either sex? I have been hit on by total strangers in this way a number of times and a few of them will live on in my memory for the rest of my life probably. The best one was the time an absolutely gorgeous saleslady at my neighborhood gym tried to seduce me into signing up for a lifetime membership. Time and time again she would drop in metaphors like \"commitment\" \"Come on Bruce, let\'s do it!\" \"just \'cause if feels good dude\" or \"tieing the knot\" etc. etc. implying at some level that if I would just sign her membership papers I would get to sleep with her. But each and everytime she dropped one of her little subconscious bombs on me, I would immediately counter by responding directly to the hidden suggestion with things like: \"Sounds great, but if it doesn\'t work out, can we get a divorce?\" or \"Well, then why don\'t we just live together for a while and see how it goes?\" The result was fantastic: everytime I came out with one of those zingers, she would turn beet red and laugh herself silly. One time she dropped her head to the desk and laughed until she started to cry a little. Then when I finally earned my free day pass to the gym she followed my around chatting like a little kid ignoring one after the other of all the big brusers who were hitting on her.

Now, that story is 100% true, so I know you can pull stuff like that off, and in this case at least, I think you will agree I didn\'t do anything \"wrong\", so there has got to be some sort of lesson book to teach both guys and girls how to do this (the right way of course). Also, you don\'t think this saleslady thought up that pitch all by herself, do you? No way. Somebody taught her that you can slip your prey a couple caps of psychic yohimbe and he will sign anything you put in front of him. Now that ain\'t so good, but like I said, there has GOT to be a \"right\" way to use this stuff.

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok careful line to follow but when it comes to sex its a fair bit of manipulation because naturally most women are very guarded about who they bed with (call it genetic selection) and for guys its all about convincing a woman to go that step further than LJBF so to speak but women do the same to men by making them earn more money work out dress better (use pheros) to be the best catch then relationship marriage being faithful (although the same cant always be said for the reverse) so i think that general NLP knowledge is essential to have the edge over others this stuff can be found all over anyway and pheromones are pretty much the same thing, as far as sellign the stuff well i would say go with it maybe make it available within the forum club only to limit exposure at least till it proves to be a negative or positive thing and then if it works you could bring it into the main site. Just a couple of intermediate ideas to play with and marketing exposure, the main thrust of the site is always pheros but branching out into related things is always benefical. And its only in conjuction with other products anway.

[Bruce]

Any more comments?
Please....
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ive got an idea love the new SOE i finally got works great hey folks forget alltogher about large amounts of none just go with the nol and rone because once the fems are relaxed and talking to you you can make the sexual moves and im sure most women would be happy to sleep with someone they trust right thats how it happens a lot of the time they learn to trust you then it goes to the next level sooner or later sometimes.
Anyone else lol

[a.k.a.]

Bruce,
Well, now I’m confused.
There’s the art of innuendo, which is fun, harmless, and very seductive in the right hands. (Usually somebody with above average wit.)

If this is what NLP’s about... It’s not my style and I probably wouldn’t buy it. But I agree that there should be a “right” approach to teaching it. And I don’t see why anybody should be offended if you offered it at your site.

Then there’s the pseudo-scientific notion that you can slip suggestive words — straight out of context, without a hint of wit or artfulness — into everyday conversation and get someone hot. I can’t believe that such an approach could work, and I’d be insulted if someone tried to pull it on me.

[Bruce]

About ten years ago someone lent me a 10 tape series on NLP by Tony something or other, a then NLP guru, and from what I can remember NLP consists of a broad range of techniques. After reading this sample \"Sexual Key\" all I can see there is the use of sexually charged language to turn someone on, but I think we can safely say this could be consider A (one) possible member of the NLP family of tricks. My feeling is that there is nothing actually \"wrong\" with this sort of thing other than:
A. It has been groomed to appeal to men for the purpose of getting women to do things they wouldn\'t otherwise want to do. Up to and possibly including the specific targeting of males who hold women in very low esteem and whose fascination with these courses stems from a desire to dominate or even harm women.
B. Either it requires a lot of skill to use effectively, or worse, is just a bunch of nonsense.

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I quite often put the words hard penetrate and emotion and love and all sorts of things into conversations and yeah it does get a response not always leading to sex but a lot of the time it involves just using \"keywords\' in everyday conversation to get the other persons brain to associate certain things with you and certain concepts with other concepts. All women use this idea when communicating with men thats why they might be so against it. Ive learnt NLP well and pay attention to how women talk verbally and guess what bingo they use the \"keywords\" idea in their everyday talk, ive had a look at it and it sounds pretty benign to me so i would sell it as a product maybe if you do it through the forum-club first just as a limited trail available to forum members. Because it can be found elsewhere on the web anyway (mostly pay sites) and those sites are discussed here anyway so you may as well make some more direct money instead of it going elsewhere (nufornatley their are not many more women members here at the moment.)

[Irish]

The great thing about this forum? You get to see the most tortured rationalizations and moralizing this side of prison….But to answer the question posed first: Sell the e-book. It seems to be making a coherent point about a way to attract females (don\'t know if it\'s valid, but I\'d buy it and experiment for myself). I like the e-book format and have bought them for unrelated subjects.

I can\'t believe some of the \'moral\' objections to behaviors and sexual approaches I\'ve been reading here lately! Written by people who are SECRETLY APPLYING SEX ATTRACTANTS with the aim of surreptitiously arousing potential targets. We are trying to secretly manipulate the arousal center of a target\'s brain, to gain sexual favors, power, or attention we couldn\'t normally get. If you think about it, we use pheros to get something we don\'t \'deserve\': either age, bad genes, social ineptitude or worse has denied us sex appeal, so we\'re gonna short-circuit our own defective biology and work directly on the target\'s brain…WITHOUT TELLING THE TARGET what we\'re up to! How is that so morally superior to reading about conversation techniques that appeal to women?? At least when you\'re using conversation the target can hear what you\'re saying and make a conscious decision. All us phero users are much sneakier than that!

And I think that\'s fine! I admit it, and I\'m alright with it. Love is war, and you must fight to win this competition or you will be removed from the gene pool. I\'ll use anything at my disposal to win out (anything that\'s legal - there\'s my moral stand). I just find it humorous when phero users begin to point the finger at the \'bad\' ones who are using conversation techniques or other approaches, or who are going after targets they might disapprove of.

A poster above actually recommended the \'being yourself\' approach, and was aghast at the \'manipulative\' techniques in the e-book. Ha! \'Being yourself\' means not applying hundreds of times the sex attractant your own body could produce, and not telling your targets! I don\'t have to tell the guys that \'being yourself\' gets you nowhere unless you\'re young/rich/famous/physically attractive. The rest of us have to use every psychological and chemical trick available to enhance our natural \'weak\' appeal, unless we\'re ready to bow out of the competition to reproduce.

\'Using pheros is one thing…\' - yep, it\'s about the sneakiest thing this side of dropping a mickey in someone\'s coke! Before we throw stones let\'s look at what we\'re up to ourselves, and come off our self-righteous pulpits. There\'s a continuum here, starting from good grooming and social practice, working on your physique, etc (which almost everyone does to attract others, and no one really objects to). Next on the continuum are learning more subtle psychological techniques, conversation, social graces, employing what experience has taught you that \'works\'. Notice the target\'s judgment is still intact so far, and everything is in the open. Finally you have the covert manipulation and overriding the targets will (get \'em drunk, secretly use pheros, slip something in their drink, etc.). Notice some covert chemical manipulations are (rightfully, IMHO) illegal. Believe me, if pheros were as effective as some of us like to believe they would probably be illegal too.
images/icons/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I would tend to agree. Sell the book. Moral judgments tend to be provincial - local in scope. (Spare me the obvious ones that aren\'t images/icons/smile.gif ) We\'ll pretty much make up our own minds where to play.

[jose]

Well here\'s my comment, personally I don\'t think these techniques work. You can probably turn a woman ON with this stuff but she will probably go straight to her boyfriend,husband or the shower massager,it doesn\'t necessarily mean she will sleep with you.
Like Irish comments it is just another weapon in a arsenal to try to get laid. So Bruce sell the ebook someone might get married because of it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My point is: Why are you considering to sell something you don´t even know it works? This will put you in the same category as all the rip-off sites!

I would try convince myself first, so I know I am not selling BS.
images/icons/wink.gif

[Nutt]

It seems to me that this is basicaly a quick and dirty guide to what ross trys to teach, at least at first glance. Anybody who thinks SS is just memorising patterns and saying them is getting the wrong end of the stick, its partly about confidence, and mostly about creating a state of mind in the subject and then linking it to you, If you can achive that I honestly dont see how it cant work.

I love pancakes, If I see someone cooking them on TV, I tend to think I would like to eat some. how is this diffrent from getting a subject to think about sex, while they are already focused on you, It certainly cant hurt your chances, as long as your not too blunt and make it seem a normal thing for you to say. as for the NLP stuff, well im undecided, but its subtle enough not to hurt.

As for the chavenistic (SP?) thing, well, that seems to be rosses gimick, although it probably does him more harm than good.

Anyhoo, got of topic there ( Maybe Ive been invaded with NLP suggestions to defend ross jeffries images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/tongue.gif images/icons/laugh.gif ) I dont see how selling it can really hurt you, let people have a free sample of the first page maybe, then they can decide for themselves. price it reasonably and people will actualy buy it rather than hitting the latest napster clone too (if its not already there, have to check later images/icons/tongue.gif )

[Bruce]

Thanks Guys,
Getting some great feedback going here.
Just for laughs, here\'s another e-book sample I got.
Check this one out and tell me what you think. This is the entire \"book\" and was made to be distributed free as a promotional tool.
http://love-scent.com/dating-ideas.html (\"http://love-scent.com/dating-ideas.html\")

Ol\'
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi, Bruce
In the political correct world I would tell you not to sell something you know very little about, but in the scientific world I would I am telling you to go ahead and make the sales to anyone who wishes to be part of the experiment.
I think that not enough studies have been done about the effects men\'s words have on women.
The reality is that we\'re trying to get the opposite sex\'s attention and language is a powerful tool. I would be interested in trying it out and letting everyone here some of my observations about the product.
Althought if I were you I would read the book to get a better idea about the product that would be representing your business.

-Curious Dude

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Or even make it available as a link type of setup for people browsing through love-scent something comes to mind about customer loyalty and also about interactivity with the company (the forum come to mind anyone) i guess if you have a link page with lots of links to free stuff people will remember youe site etc. It only costs your webspace to or you could have a small charge youre call just some tried and tested web marketing ideas. Anything to be competitive.

[CJ01]

Bruce if you want to offer customers something useful, why not sell books which are really related to the subject of pheromones. For example books that have been written about pheros -scientific material, tsts, background information, maybe you could actually put one together yourself with some scientists who do research into this field and put together research results etc.
THAT would be interesting for love-scent customers.

As far as NLP goes I think it´s a good idea also. Unfortunatley this e-book you´ve been offered has nothing to do with NLP. I also think that something like (what DD suggested) speed-reading is much more helpful to people as it really is about self-improvement.

Another thing I want to add is that written texts such as these will not help anyone with self-confidence problems those are issues however that can be helped with real NLP.

So my sugestion would be to find material which is credible, solid research, scientific texts etc. I think that some links to decent websites in this area will also be appreciated these could be added to the forum files perhaps. But you should not risk your own credibility or love-scents reputation with this sort of tripe I ´m sure you can expand your product line in a way which has more integrity than those guys who claim to `knoe exactly what women want´ .

CJ images/icons/smile.gif

DD do you still have those weblinks from the old board? If you do could you post them in the forum files thread? cheers.

[proteus]

I say sell the book. Irish said it best about all this moralizing by folks who use pheros, frowning on a seduction book. Seems kinda ironic to me and faintly hypocritical since most folks out there in society would probably look down on the use of pheros as being sneaky, underhanded etcetc. and would probably be appalled that anyone would use pheros to subconsciously attract the opposite sex. Having said that, pheros do part of the job of getting someone\'s interest, but if you don\'t know how to approach/have a conversation/know how to go about saying what you need to stimulate further interest, then the pheros are in a sense wasted and some folk need this assistance to learn how to do all of the above. No-one is forcing anyone to buy the book, but I think it\'d be great to offer it as an option for those folk who do need this help so I say go for it. Just my two cents images/icons/smile.gif