View Full Version : Chikara unscented ----I think it's boosting my regular mix's effects
lifetransform
01-22-2008, 08:33 AM
I got the scented Chikara way back when it was first introduced and didn't
care for the scent so I kinda gave up on it. then recently I wanted to test it again after reading that quite a few
users are noting it's effectiveness.
so far I've been using it for 2 days, adding it to my regular mix of
Edge, NPA, A314, Instant shine and Instant honesty and I am noticing more eye contacts and attention and women seem
to open up / warm up to me more in conversations.
will keep testing it to make sure it really does enhance my
mix.
DrSmellThis
01-22-2008, 09:06 PM
This is how I got the best
results from it -- in small quantities in a mix. Definitely enhanced things for me that way.
lifetransform
01-22-2008, 09:18 PM
what happens if you using
higher dosage? it ODs easily?
currently I'm using about 2-3 sprays on chest.
DrSmellThis
01-23-2008, 04:40 AM
For me, it just loses
effectiveness, and then evolves into an OD if you try to push it. I use 1 spray, a light spray, with a well-rounded,
judicious mix. Your mileage may vary.
CptKipling
01-23-2008, 06:29 PM
My usual dosage for the
original bottle which gave tiny sprays was just 1 spray. I would usually wear other things with it
as well (TE, AE etc.)
lifetransform
01-24-2008, 01:15 AM
hmmm so only limited to 1
spray?
I just tried 4 sprays today with my usual mix and received even more attention and eye contact than 2
sprays. no sign of OD yet, I think I'll keep experimenting with upping the dosage. it looks like the unscented
chikara might be just the extra oomph I was looking for.
CptKipling
01-25-2008, 12:26 PM
Not saying you shouldn't wear
more, it's just that above two sprays from the old bottle gave me diminishing returns.
EDIT: You will probably
find that Chikara is hard to OD on because it seems to be pretty balanced, so there might be some merit in applying
a lot if you can stand the cost.
lifetransform
01-25-2008, 09:44 PM
ok, I'm officially IN
LOVE with chikara now. I'm ranking it right up there next to Edge/NPA as my all time favorite mones.
I got so
many positive results today it's blowing my mind. I upped the dosage to 5 sprays today for experiment. went to
class, nothing special happened at first, then we broke into groups for discussion and boom all the IOIs started to
pop up all over the place. first, I was the only male in my group so that gave my mones plenty of room to work its
magic. (it's interesting to note that all of the other groups were either all male or all female, I was included
in an all male group the last time we broke into groups, b4 I started adding chikara in my mix)
the girls in my
group ranged from 18-35+ and all were behaving very friendly towards me, laughing at every little joke I made,
giving me their full attention when I talked and welcomed my input, constant eye contact, looking down and away,
etc. these were the same girls that sat with me for the last 2 classes and never paid any attention to me. I try
some kino on all the girls and none of them seemed to mind, taking their hand and touching their shoulders etc. at
the of the class, one girl in particular stayed behind to chat with me and walked me to my car(even tho she parked
all the way on the other side of campus), then I drove her to her car and we sat in the car and talked for about 4
hours till all the windows fogged up and she said 'oh it's totally titanic' lol
suffice it to say, chikara
obviously works better the more I apply. I will keep upping the dosage till I start seeing OD reactions. 6-7 sprays
for tomorrow! :wave:
terry0400-40
01-26-2008, 07:59 AM
ok, I'm officially IN LOVE with chikara now. I'm ranking it right up there next to
Edge/NPA as my all time favorite mones.
I got so many positive results today it's blowing my mind. I upped the
dosage to 5 sprays today for experiment. went to class, nothing special happened at first, then we broke into groups
for discussion and boom all the IOIs started to pop up all over the place. first, I was the only male in my group so
that gave my mones plenty of room to work its magic. (it's interesting to note that all of the other groups were
either all male or all female, I was included in an all male group the last time we broke into groups, b4 I started
adding chikara in my mix)
the girls in my group ranged from 18-35+ and all were behaving very friendly towards
me, laughing at every little joke I made, giving me their full attention when I talked and welcomed my input,
constant eye contact, looking down and away, etc. these were the same girls that sat with me for the last 2 classes
and never paid any attention to me. I try some kino on all the girls and none of them seemed to mind, taking their
hand and touching their shoulders etc. at the of the class, one girl in particular stayed behind to chat with me and
walked me to my car(even tho she parked all the way on the other side of campus), then I drove her to her car and we
sat in the car and talked for about 4 hours till all the windows fogged up and she said 'oh it's totally titanic'
lol
suffice it to say, chikara obviously works better the more I apply. I will keep upping the dosage till I
start seeing OD reactions. 6-7 sprays for tomorrow! :wave:c:goodpost: The
most of the unscented Chikara i have used is 2 sprays, I recon after reading this reoprt that i will up the sprays
and see where it takes me.
lifetransform
01-26-2008, 11:43 PM
tried 6-7 sprays today and
I think I've sort of reached an OD limit. there were still good eye contacts and extra attention but about 10
minutes after application I felt this irrational frustration and anger. I felt a definite alpha male vibe going
through me but at the same time too unstable to control my emotions.
I think the optimal dosage for me is 3-5
sprays. anything higher and I risk pissing myself or others off for no reason.
kevio
01-27-2008, 04:05 AM
:goodpost:
That's some
information you have.
Can I ask about your usual application point?
lifetransform
01-27-2008, 05:55 AM
neck and chest. chest is
over clothing.
kevio
01-27-2008, 05:56 AM
Thank you. Hope for your even
better results.
BGuy20
01-27-2008, 09:38 AM
tried
6-7 sprays today and I think I've sort of reached an OD limit. there were still good eye contacts and extra
attention but about 10 minutes after application I felt this irrational frustration and anger. I felt a definite
alpha male vibe going through me but at the same time too unstable to control my emotions.
I think the
optimal dosage for me is 3-5 sprays. anything higher and I risk pissing myself or others off for no
reason.
I got the aggression when I started out using mones, I don't think it's as bad now. You
might actually find it an advantage, since I think women are more attracted to aggressive alpha males.
lifetransform
01-27-2008, 11:16 AM
good point. women are
indeed more attracted to aggressive alphas.
I'm a bit confused tho, I can drown myself in Edge NPA as much as
10+ sprays or dabs and never feel the -none OD anger on myself or others. but chikara at 6+ sprays made me really
irritable and impatient - the ugly side of alpha aggressiveness.
Pendragon
01-27-2008, 11:19 AM
Yes. Although watch the line
between aggressive and abusive. Some like the abuse though. Run from those. :whip: LOL :run:
jdp710
01-27-2008, 02:57 PM
At first I didn't notice any
results with unscented Chikara with a couple sprays but I found out after about 4+ sprays girls will definetely
notice you more and become more talkative. I think their overall impression is hey, he's cute. It even works on
the older women too.
I even tried OD'ing on it once with about 20 sprays and I coudn't. I smelt horrible and
I felt like my pulse was racing the whole time. I felt like the biggest smart ass but no anger. Others also had
the same affect around me.
lifetransform
01-27-2008, 07:24 PM
omfg. 20 sprays? you
have won the OD contest hands down lol!
so you normally wear about 4+ sprays?
yes, you are right on the money
about the 'hey he's cute' effect. the girl that talked with me for 4 hours mentioned within the first 5 minutes
that I remind her of an actor. (good looking one I hope! lol)
jdp710
01-28-2008, 01:51 AM
Yeah, it was about 20 sprays lol.
My heart felt like it was racing a mile a minute and I had to take a shower about 4-5 hours later.
My magic
number is about 4-5 with 6 being better but I start getting affected too much by it. I also put it on my neck and
hair as that seems to get the best results.
I think all the people that say they haven't noticed anything with
Chikara didn't spray enough on :D .
If it helps, I'm 28 years old, laid back kind of person so I think
I'm pretty low on -none.
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 05:14 AM
yes, thank you. this info
is helpful and matches my own findings.
I'm surprised you didn't collapse from the 20 sprays lol. your
nervous system must've went into turbo mode to cope with so much artificial neurotransmitters.
did you feel
dehydrated the whole time your heart was pounding?
most people don't want to OD so they usually use 2-3 sprays,
which is the correct dosage for most products, LS or the other place. except that I'm also low on the natural
-none level so I tend to get better results the more I apply.
have you tried the A7 or the enhanced Liquid
trust? I think liquid trust is another product that needs massive dosage to see any visible results.
kevio
01-28-2008, 05:49 AM
A little off the topic. But what
type of pheros you usually prioritize? Thanks
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 06:02 AM
could you elaborate what
you mean by prioritize? is it product ranking or the type of mones? (-none, -nol, -rone..etc)
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 06:05 AM
btw, jdp710, do you apply
chikara on the skin or clothes? or half half?
I recently started to realize that 1 spray on the clothes does not
= 1 spray on the skin. since the diffusion rate is so much slower on the clothes, it's more like 0.5 or 0.3 sprays
compared to 1 spray on skin.
kevio
01-28-2008, 06:23 AM
Sorry. I meant type of mones.
I
don't know much about the products but I welcome any suggestion.
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 06:36 AM
gotcha.
I think all 3
types are equally important in a mix. but since I produce low -none levels I tend to use a lot of -none heavy
products like Edge, NPA to create high sexual tension.
I also use massive -nol products to encourage chattiness and
friendliness.
my fav product ranking after 7+ years of usage:
Edge / NPA - undisputed king of sexual hits
hands down, blows Ammo or turn up the heat outta the water.
Chikara - my new all time fav, it boosts and enhance
all aspects of a mix, making the results much much more visible.
instant honesty - excellent for building
comfort and connection and encourage communication.
instant shine - good mood elevator and energizer.
A314 -
the most effective product for respect and admiration, period.
kevio
01-28-2008, 06:41 AM
Have you ever tried Pheros? I need
some comments on it.
And yeah, Chikara is placed in my list of next order now - does it work well with our Asian
siblings?
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 07:22 AM
yes I also got Pheros when
it first came out. sadly no visible results. I think Phero's formula has evolved, maybe I should give it a try
again. might be pleasantly surprised like Chikara. :-)
hmm, Chikara on our Asian sisters...I can't really say
because I already get attention from Japanese and Korean girls (sometimes Chinese but never Taiwanese...cry)
but
what jdp710 said about the 'hey he's cute' effect is very accurate and the 'cute' effect should be universal
regardless of race.
I think you can expect good results from it. remember to experiment with the dosage to find
your own sweet spot. mine is 4-6 sprays and I think you might need less because you probably produce more natural
-none than me.
kevio
01-28-2008, 07:25 AM
Many thanks, brother.
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 07:37 AM
no prob buddy.
belgareth
01-28-2008, 07:53 AM
yes
I also got Pheros when it first came out. sadly no visible results. I think Phero's formula has evolved, maybe I
should give it a try again. might be pleasantly surprised like Chikara. :-)
The only real change in
Pheros since it came out is some aging of the ingredients. Pheros is not a pheromone product, having only trace
amounts of some pheromones in it. Instead, it has anolog pheromone products (You'll have to ask DST for details)
and natural scents. It gets attention but not on the same level as a pheromone. It is a superb cover scent though.
When I wear it I get compliments which means they are getting a good wiff of the pheromones it is covering too.
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 08:13 AM
has any Asian users
reported positive results from Pheros? I don't want to offend DST but Phero's scent didn't do it for me. my gf
commented that it smelled very exotic and rich and reminds her of Egyptian spice, probably due to the packaging
design. I think Pheros is the type of scent that is compatible with -none heavy races, so basically everybody on
earth except Asians.
my gf and I prefer scents like coolwater, jean paul's unforgivable, aqua de gio..etc.
belgareth
01-28-2008, 08:49 AM
Not that I know of but that
doesn't prove anything. DST isn't likely to be offended, he knows as well as anybody that no scent works for us
all. Pheros is something I wear as a change myself, no as an everyday scent. Most the time I wear musk and/or Oud.
jdp710
01-28-2008, 11:34 AM
hey lifetransform, I never use
-mones/chikara on my clothes because like you said it doesn't seem to work as well and I don't want any kind of
build up on my clothes. One thing about Chikara that I noticed as well is that people tend to think you're younger
than you really are. Not sure why though.
I also like to try and OD on every -mone to see how I react
and see the dosage before I OD. I once OD'd on NPA with 8 "drops" on my neck and let me to you that was not a
pleasant experience. I felt like I wanted to start with a fight with anyone and everyone. I even had one of my
family members yelling and screaming at me for no reason at all. My dosage for NPA is 1 drop but if I put something
like WAGG or SOE then I can put on 2 or maybe 3 drops.
The -mones that I've tried is
AE - gives me a bad
headache but that could be because the smell was too strong but it does seem to work just not as well as other
-mones.
chikara gel packs scented. I do like the scent but it can get tiring after awhile. Works the same as
chikara unscented spray. People also want to talk with me when I'm using it.
SOE - My productivity goes up
and if I start getting tired I'll use it as a wake me up. People are a little more friendly and talkative towards
you but I don't use it by itself.
WAGG - People are more friendly towards you and you'll look less hostile.
A314 - You'll feel and look "a lot" more laid back and a little more sexier. This is the one I use at work
because you're able to think clearer. If guys have a hard time talking to girls this is the one I'd recommend.
NPA - Is my all time favorite. You'll look and feel a lot sexier but if you use too much you can be
intimidating. That's where WAGG or SOE comes in. You can use larger doses of NPA with less chance of OD which
means you'll look and feel even sexier. I prefer to mix it with WAGG but SOE also works. I wear NPA/WAGG 90% of
the time when I'm not at work.
As for "A7 or the enhanced Liquid trust," I haven't tried those yet but A7
is on my list to get next time.
Hope this helps
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 06:32 PM
I see. I should switch to
all skin applications and see if the hits increase in frequency or intensity.
lol 8 drops NPA, yup that'll do
the trick off pissing off the world.
I never noticed much results from WAGG. do you notice that if you don't
use it people tend to be reluctant to talk to you? how much do yo apply?
soe as a pick me up? interesting. I
have noticed increased chattiness with soe but I try to stay away from oil applications. get itchy sometimes on the
neck. where do you apply it if you have to wear lots of clothes?
yes, NPA / Edge and A314 are the king. they
are my all time fav too. =)
have you tried the instant honesty/openness line from 'the other place'? I think
they work really well as social mones, really gets people to open up and talk. and they are sprays so you can wear
them in the hair and the diffusion is excellent.
I've always considered and used DST
Pheros as a cologne/cover scent, not as a pheromone product. I save it for special occasions. It's not an everyday
item. I find I like it, a lot. I also find I don't like the "Cool Water" type scents much at all. Use waht is best
for you, or what tickles your preferred target's fancy. Everybody is different. Thankfully.
DrSmellThis
01-28-2008, 09:26 PM
has any Asian users reported positive results from Pheros? I don't want to offend DST
but Phero's scent didn't do it for me. my gf commented that it smelled very exotic and rich and reminds her of
Egyptian spice, probably due to the packaging design. I think Pheros is the type of scent that is compatible with
-none heavy races, so basically everybody on earth except Asians.
my gf and I prefer scents like coolwater,
jean paul's unforgivable, aqua de gio..etc.
If I'd known you liked Aqua and other citrusy scents,
primarily, I could have predicted Pheros wouldn't be your type of scent, since it is more rich and musky,
with more blatant romantic intentions. A number of times I have "warned" about this on the forum, to help people
decide a bit before ordering it.
I have heard from people in more than one Asian country that liked it, but I
don't know or remember what their nationalities were.
I think it's more about your taste in scents. It's
really the opposite of something like Coolwater.
Thanks for giving it a try. I'm sorry it wasn't for you.
I do know that Bruce has always been great about accepting returns of Pheros, as with other products.
lifetransform
01-28-2008, 10:50 PM
ah, opposite of coolwater.
no wonder.
I got the Pheros when it first came out ages ago. ya think Bruce will accept that for return lol?
idesign
01-29-2008, 04:47 PM
I got the Pheros when it first came out ages ago. ya think Bruce will accept that
for return lol?
lifetransform, I'll be happy to take your old Pheros off your hands, how much is left in
the bottle? Contact me through Yahoo.
It'd be cool to compare the new with the aged product.
lifetransform
01-29-2008, 11:12 PM
hiya idesign, sure that
sounds good to me.
my Pheros is completely untouched. all I did so many years ago was to open the seal and smell
it and let me gf smell it. then the lid goes back on and never thought about it again.
I don't have yahoo
messenger on my computer. can we send PMs on this forum?
kevio
01-30-2008, 05:28 AM
Hey, LifeT, I like acqua di gio as
well. And is that coolwater the davidoff one? If yes, I have one too!
I think I will have chikara unscented, a314
and Liquid trust for my next order. What do you think?
lifetransform
01-30-2008, 06:55 AM
yup, the daviddoff one.
my gf loves that smell, says it was what I was wearing when we first met so she 4ever associates that feeling with
the scent.
she recommended another cologne to me recently called:
unforgivable - by jean paul.
it smells
very unique and nice. if you like aqua di gio and coolwater you'll definitely like unforgivable.
yes,
unscented chikara is a must have.
liquid trust....I didn't see any results from it, the general opinion is that
you have to spray like half of the bottle to see some effects, if any. and, it seems to make both the wearer and
the target stupid in large quantities. (maybe that's why it's 'trust' cuz it temporarily makes the brain go
dumb?)
A314 is also a must have.
remember to get unscented soe too! =)
kevio
01-30-2008, 08:16 AM
Understood.
Now, I tried
smelling myself again after a hot shower (no soap). SoE smells just nice. It was good when the fragrance worn off
but this is even better.
I think I saw unforgivable before. I'll check that out. However, sometime I prefer a
deep woody smell of sandalwood as well, not cedar, it's too spicy. I use it when I do something formal and/or meet
someone important. (I bought it from Body Shop) Although I like perfume and such, my sense of smell is not that
great.
lifetransform
01-30-2008, 08:51 AM
my sense of smell is worse
than you lol.
I don't understand all those perfume lingo, citrus, woodsy, musk...etc cuz I can't realy tell the
difference.
my gf emphasized that unforgivable has a distinct woody undertone that's very manly and mature....I
have no idea what she means, but hey as long as they like it. :cheers:
idesign
01-30-2008, 05:03 PM
hiya
idesign, sure that sounds good to me.
my Pheros is completely untouched. all I did so many years ago was to
open the seal and smell it and let me gf smell it. then the lid goes back on and never thought about it again.
I
don't have yahoo messenger on my computer. can we send PMs on this forum?
just send a message to
lifetransform
01-31-2008, 08:44 AM
email sent.
idesign
01-31-2008, 04:29 PM
just send
a message to
Thanks, reply coming
lifetransform
02-02-2008, 07:41 AM
ok, the chikara testing
continues...
another really successful day overall.
this time, I upped the chikara dosage back up to 7 sprays
but I made sure to also apply a shitload of -nols to buffer the possible aggression. (also had a bunch of Edge/NPA
on as always)
I think I had on like 6-7 sprays of instant openess, 5 sprays of instant honesty, and 4 sprays of
come talk to me2, most of them applied in hair and chest for best diffusion.
went to class, female classmates
would initiate convo on their own, linger around my space, guys wouldn't look at me. (too much -none I think) the
girl sitting on my right would get a little catty with the girl on my left when we were all chatting. I don't
wanna go so far to say that they were 'fighting' for my attention, but they were definitely competing for some
sort of dominance.
I tried to diffuse the situation by paying them equal amounts of attention, lots of kind hearted
humor and kino and they seemed to simmer down after a while.
later, another female classmate walked by and asked
me where I got my jeans. I told her it's the levi's 527 low boot cut and she said it looks really nice on me. (I
should've came back with 'well that's cuz I have a nice ass and long legs' lol) but instead I replied, 'yeah,
and check out these stone washed patterns on the back of the knee, see?'
the girl sitting on my right was the
same one that I chatted with for 4 hours in the car after the last class, we've gotten closer and she lets me hold
her hand and put my arms around her when we are walking. (sharing an umbrella in the pouring rain helped lol) we
went out for some food after class and talked for a while, then I took her back to her car. usually we hug goodbye
in the friendly-upper-body-arching-hips-not-touching way, but this time she just stood there with her hands curled
up in front of her chest and looking down to the right at the ground, waiting for me to hold her.
so I did and
she buried her face in my chest and took a big whiff and said my jacket smelled really good. (the bulk of the mones
is on my shirt tho)
I suddenly got the urge to kiss her, so I tried to lift her chin up and as I went in she
ducked back into my chest. I asked 'is it too fast?' and she just made some noises. we kept hugging for a while
then we left.
I felt 'a bit' guilty for almost kissing my classmate so I went to the coffee shop my gf was
working at to surprise her. this was about 4 hours after the initial application, I refreshed with 1 dab of NPA and
3 sprays of instant openess togo. I went in the store and found my gf, she was pleasantly surprised that I showed
up, I've never been there b4. as we were talking, 2 of her coworker baristas gathered around us and was checking
me out and asking if I was the bf. later, my gf told me that they asked about me after I left the store and thought
that I was cute. (chikara power!) :hammer:
I did not feel any aggression or impatience this time with 7 sprays
of chikara, maybe my body has adjusted to the dosage or all those -nols I piled on was doing their job. either way,
it's working nicely, no sign of OD at all.
Pendragon
02-02-2008, 02:31 PM
It's stories like that which
make me think I'm not wearing enough. I usually just have 1-2 dabs npa and some SOE down my neck.
:cheers:
idesign
02-02-2008, 06:28 PM
this time, I upped the chikara dosage back up to 7 sprays but I made sure to also
apply a shitload of -nols to buffer the possible aggression. (also had a bunch of Edge/NPA on as always)
I think
I had on like 6-7 sprays of instant openess, 5 sprays of instant honesty, and 4 sprays of come talk to me2, most of
them applied in hair and chest for best diffusion.
I'm not familiar with some of what you were
wearing, but that's a big pile 'o mones, 6 by my count, and 12 sprays on top of the "bunch of Edge/NPA".
Wow,
that's enough to cause power failure in a medium sized city.
Chikara is not known to produce OD reactions, but
if so, why would you wear 7 sprays when a typical dose would be 1-3? Just wondering...
Tester123
02-02-2008, 09:57 PM
I'm not
familiar with some of what you were wearing, but that's a big pile 'o mones, 6 by my count, and 12 sprays on top
of the "bunch of Edge/NPA".
Wow, that's enough to cause power failure in a medium sized city.
Chikara is not
known to produce OD reactions, but if so, why would you wear 7 sprays when a typical dose would be 1-3? Just
wondering...
Yeah, I think it's overkill. I started using mones last summer, and I had also was prone
to trying a gazillion different things at the same time in large quantities while looking for the perfect
combination (the one no one else has found). I realized after a while that if I wasn't producing ODs and still
getting good results it was probably just a few of the products working their magic. I'm back to simple
experimentation with one or two mones or maybe three. This allows me to see what is doing what. Combinations are
fun but it's probably best to start with simple ones in small quantities. After all, some girls may respond
positively to one and negatively to another. Combined they might go either way or be totally neutral. Imagine how
many factors are at play with everything you've got on. And, it may be that one product in a small quantity might
have worked better. I'd think that you could save money and have a better grasp of what's going on with less on.
Less is more.
Just my thoughts.... :)
lifetransform
02-03-2008, 04:47 AM
I'm
not familiar with some of what you were wearing, but that's a big pile 'o mones, 6 by my count, and 12 sprays on
top of the "bunch of Edge/NPA".
Wow, that's enough to cause power failure in a medium sized city.
Chikara is
not known to produce OD reactions, but if so, why would you wear 7 sprays when a typical dose would be 1-3? Just
wondering...
yeah lol, power failure indeedy.
mones dosage is different for everybody, I naturally
produce pretty low levels of -none so I discovered long ago that I tend to get more obvious and pronounced results
the more I apply.
the typical 2-3 sprays for most products doesn't work for me, I do notice some sporadic minor
hits here and there but I get consistent fantastic reactions when I go up to what is considered OD levels for
'regular' users.
besides, I'm an attention whore. :wub:
if you wanna know, the actual # of products I had
was:
new version A314 - 3 drops, neck and wrist
Edge - 6 sprays, neck and chest
NPA- 2 dabs, wrist
instant
honesty - 5 sprays, wrist and hair
instant openess - 7 sprays, chest and hair
come talk to me2 - 4 sprays, neck
and hair
instant shine 2x - 3 sprays, neck chest
chikara - 7 sprays, neck and chest
:smite: hehehe
lifetransform
02-03-2008, 05:41 AM
Yeah, I think it's overkill. I started using mones last summer, and I had also was prone
to trying a gazillion different things at the same time in large quantities while looking for the perfect
combination (the one no one else has found). I realized after a while that if I wasn't producing ODs and still
getting good results it was probably just a few of the products working their magic. I'm back to simple
experimentation with one or two mones or maybe three. This allows me to see what is doing what. Combinations are
fun but it's probably best to start with simple ones in small quantities. After all, some girls may respond
positively to one and negatively to another. Combined they might go either way or be totally neutral. Imagine how
many factors are at play with everything you've got on. And, it may be that one product in a small quantity might
have worked better. I'd think that you could save money and have a better grasp of what's going on with less on.
Less is more.
Just my thoughts.... :)
yup, I agree with experimenting with single products at a time
to gauge the effectiveness, it's the only way to become familiar with reactions to see if the product is working
for you.
but like I said, mones dosage is different for everyone, what works for me may or may not work for
another user. we all have to go through the trial and error to figure out the OD limit, there's no
shortcut.
that being said, I've been using mones for going on 8 years now, mostly products from LS and recent
couple of years products from 'the other place'. I've had enough time with each product as they were released
one by one to test whether they work on me.
(I'm especially familiar with Edge/NPA's usage, no surprise there
hehe)
as far as the 'perfect combo nobody else has found' goes, it's the same concept with dosage, the perfect
mix for me is most likely not the perfect mix for somebody else. you can't 'discover' the perfect combo for
others, you can only discover your own.
an example of this is one of the experimental test mix from 'the other
place' called mx203 - aka instant Caucasian magic, that seems to work really well on white girls but tends to repel
every other race- Asian, Hispanic, Black...etc I tested this in one of my classes and man, all I can say is I'm
never touching mx203 again. I wont' go into the story much here but basically it made me invisible to the girls in
my class, to the point that when I switched back to my bread and butter mix(with lots of Edge), a tall slim sexy
Persian classmate approached me and asked why she hadn't seen me in the class before, then proceeded to sit beside
me for the rest of the quarter. (she ended up asking me out on her own, I screwed it up tho lol)
but there are
other users who have received great hits from mx203 in their mix. (maybe they are in a predominantly Caucasian
environment?)
in this case, their perfect mix doesn't work on me, especially in California where the racial
profile is so diverse.
I do have to admit that I like to test products by going overboard and then scaling it
back as opposed to starting small and stepping it up. I prefer to see some kind of reaction, even OD than to see
nothing if the dosage is too low. but that's just my personal preference.
I gotta say tho, I think I have
already found my 'perfect mix' when I discovered what chikara can do for me. I was already getting pretty good
results with my regular mix but chikara's 'hey he's cute' effect is like pouring gasoline on fire. I can't
live without chikara in my mix now, like I can't live without Edge/NPA. :smite:
lots of words I know lol, there
has been many discussions on the topic of OD so I have quite a bit of thoughts on the subject. :hammer:
Pendragon
02-03-2008, 07:06 AM
besides, I'm an attention whore. :wub:
As long as your honest with
yourself, then it's all good! :LOL:
if you wanna know, the actual # of
products I had was:
new version A314 - 3 drops, neck and wrist
Edge - 6 sprays, neck and chest
NPA- 2 dabs,
wrist
instant honesty - 5 sprays, wrist and hair
instant openess - 7 sprays, chest and hair
come talk to me2 - 4
sprays, neck and hair
instant shine 2x - 3 sprays, neck chest
chikara - 7 sprays, neck and chest
With that much on, why not just take the whole bottle with you and ask her smell and give her opinion of
it? The whole bottle would definately be OD. LOL
lifetransform
02-03-2008, 08:39 AM
As
long as your honest with yourself, then it's all good! :LOL:
With that much on, why not just take the
whole bottle with you and ask her smell and give her opinion of it? The whole bottle would definately be OD.
LOL
oh yeah, I know I'm definitely an attention whore. I feed off and get off on it, daily. what man
WOULDN'T want the girls to check him out? eye contact and extra attention are the frontlines of IOIs. and since
girls are genetically designed to be attracted to high status males with lots of social proof, extra attention from
people (women or men) sure don't hurt.
a girl seeing another girl checking you out will become more curious
about you and checks you out some more. (they sense you have been preselected by other females)
"love me, hate
me, just don't ignore me." =)
if the girl doesn't even notice you, you already lost half of the battle is what
I always say.
and asking a girl to sniff the bottle doesn't work, OD levels or not, it has to be applied on
a human for the context to be congruent. I tried lacing my apartment with PI for experiment b4 - 2 bottles.
nothing happened, not even a hint of extra aggression or anything else, forget arousal.
Tester123
02-03-2008, 04:56 PM
Ah, I didn't realize that
you'd been using mones for so long! I should have looked at your registration date to see that you've been on the
board for a while. Regardless, I totally agree that this is all very individualistic though I do think there are
some general things that work for most people of the same sex/race.
That mix for attracting white girls sounds
interesting to me. I wonder what's in it that would attract Caucasians and repel others. Are Nordic types more
attracted by it than other "whites?" Also wonder if the wearer should also be Caucasian. Anyway, I've never
ordered from the other place. I have nothing against them. I just have my hands full already and really like Love
Scent. I'm not averse to trying the OP, but I will always consider this my primary. LS was my introduction to
mones after hearing about them for years and years. If it hadn't been for LS and this board, I probably wouldn't
have known what to look for and may have concluded that mones didn't
work.
kevio
02-04-2008, 08:14 AM
LT. What mones (products) do you
use when you go to a pub or bar? (quite crowded)
lifetransform
02-04-2008, 08:39 AM
LT.
What mones (products) do you use when you go to a pub or bar? (quite crowded)
tbh, I don't go to pubs or
clubs much lol. I find that my personality doesn't work in such environments.
but when I do go, I just used
the same mix I usually wear, but with even more sprays! not really a surprise there eh? lol
lots and lots and
lots Edge/NPA, and even more instant openess/come talk to me2. a good idea to cover your entire upper, hell, lower
body too in unscented soe.
I haven't tested chikara in a crowded club setting, but I think if it works in daily
situations it'll work anywhere.:cheers:
kevio
02-04-2008, 08:49 AM
I'm getting over my idiocy and
need some refreshing atmosphere. I don't go to such places often too. Just for a change.
Thanks bro
lifetransform
02-04-2008, 08:50 AM
Ah, I didn't realize that you'd been using mones for so long! I should have looked at
your registration date to see that you've been on the board for a while. Regardless, I totally agree that this is
all very individualistic though I do think there are some general things that work for most people of the same
sex/race.
That mix for attracting white girls sounds interesting to me. I wonder what's in it that would
attract Caucasians and repel others. Are Nordic types more attracted by it than other "whites?" Also wonder if the
wearer should also be Caucasian. Anyway, I've never ordered from the other place. I have nothing against them. I
just have my hands full already and really like Love Scent. I'm not averse to trying the OP, but I will always
consider this my primary. LS was my introduction to mones after hearing about them for years and years. If it
hadn't been for LS and this board, I probably wouldn't have known what to look for and may have concluded that
mones didn't work.
yes, I consider LS my home too and been dropping mucho dinero on them for years. I
even went to a vegas pheromone convention held by Bruce back in the day, got to meet Bruce and JVK and stonelab's
Phil in person, such friendly people. =) JVK did a advanced speech about his book scent of eros (soe) but I did
not understand a lick of what he said with my puny brain. lol
the mx203 non-Caucasian repelling effect has been a
popular topic of discussion at 'the other place'. some swears by it and others claim that they can get still
Asian girls with it.
I can sell you mine if you wanna give it a try, I know I'm never touching it anyways.
it's an experimental mix so it's not in stock at the moment at 'the other place'
idesign
02-04-2008, 06:58 PM
Yeah, I
think it's overkill. I started using mones last summer, and I had also was prone to trying a gazillion different
things at the same time in large quantities while looking for the perfect combination (the one no one else has
found). I realized after a while that if I wasn't producing ODs and still getting good results it was probably
just a few of the products working their magic. I'm back to simple experimentation with one or two mones or maybe
three. This allows me to see what is doing what. Combinations are fun but it's probably best to start with simple
ones in small quantities. After all, some girls may respond positively to one and negatively to another. Combined
they might go either way or be totally neutral. Imagine how many factors are at play with everything you've got
on. And, it may be that one product in a small quantity might have worked better. I'd think that you could save
money and have a better grasp of what's going on with less on. Less is more.
Just my thoughts....
:)
Very nice analysis Tester. With all the various environmental and personal factors, keeping the -mone
factor simple makes it easier to judge effectiveness.
DrSmellThis
02-04-2008, 07:42 PM
Chikara
is not known to produce OD reactions, but if so, why would you wear 7 sprays when a typical dose would be 1-3? Just
wondering...I've heard any number of accounts of ODs from Chikara over the years. They can be unpleasant,
and I've experienced them myself.
idesign
02-04-2008, 07:54 PM
I've
heard any number of accounts of ODs from Chikara over the years. They can be unpleasant, and I've experienced them
myself.
How much, and what was the reaction? I've always felt safe with Chikara, and the only neg I've
gotten is way too much chattiness.
Admittedly, I always play it safe and don't try to OD. My max dose is 1-2
sprays, usually layered with TE or A7.
terry0400-40
02-04-2008, 11:03 PM
How
much, and what was the reaction? I've always felt safe with Chikara, and the only neg I've gotten is way too much
chattiness.
Admittedly, I always play it safe and don't try to OD. My max dose is 1-2 sprays, usually layered
with TE or A7.Chikara alone at one or two does nix for me, even with a
spray of TE added.
I think i will just strap my balls down and go all out and give it a four spray blast alone, or
with an added spray of TE what do ya reccon ?? :rasp:
lifetransform
02-05-2008, 01:50 AM
How
much, and what was the reaction? I've always felt safe with Chikara, and the only neg I've gotten is way too much
chattiness.
Admittedly, I always play it safe and don't try to OD. My max dose is 1-2 sprays, usually layered
with TE or A7.
yes, I'm also very curious about the unpleasant reactions. so far I've experienced
nothing but positive enhanced effects of my original mix. the only OD I came close to was my own mood being
effected at 6+ sprays from the first test run, but it seems if I buffer it with a gallon of -nol products it all
works out nicely.
lifetransform
02-05-2008, 01:54 AM
Chikara alone at one or two does nix for me, even
with a spray of TE added.
I think i will just strap my balls
down and go all out and give it a four spray blast alone, or with an added spray of TE what do ya reccon ?? :rasp:
yah man, go for it. buffer it with tons of -nol like soe, or the instant line products
from 'the other place' and let us know what happens. :hammer:
terry0400-40
02-05-2008, 02:36 AM
yah man, go for it. buffer it with tons of -nol like soe, or the instant line products
from 'the other place' and let us know what happens. :hammer:Sure thing
LTF, i am out of SOE but i still have some CTTM 2 and also half a bottle of Spaceland that should buffer it up
enough.
The
last time i went to the dentist i had on like 5 sprays of Spaceland and the dentist would not shut
up,
this
was in a big dental hospital with scores of dentists and their assistants all in this one area like and this dentist
also burst out into song with a good base tena booming out he sure appeared really out of it and his female
assistant went as red as a beetroot and all the staff were laughing at him, he ended up pulling out nearly every
tooth i posessed that day lol....
Wear enough of this shit and it sure will have some remarkable effects that is for
sure.....:rofl:
lifetransform
02-05-2008, 09:23 AM
Sure thing LTF, i am out of SOE but i still have some
CTTM 2 and also half a bottle of Spaceland that should buffer it up enough.
The last time i went to the dentist i had on like 5 sprays of Spaceland and the dentist would not
shut up,
this was in a big dental hospital with scores of
dentists and their assistants all in this one area like and this dentist also burst out into song with a good base
tena booming out he sure appeared really out of it and his female assistant went as red as a beetroot and all the
staff were laughing at him, he ended up pulling out nearly every tooth i posessed that day lol....
Wear enough of this shit and it sure will have some remarkable effects that is
for sure.....:rofl:
omg lol, I remember reading this dental story from 'other place'
forum haha.
really makes me wanna try spaceland plus pot...
cttm2 is always a good chatty product, but wears
out too fast. I've found that instant openess is the most versatile in most situations, like Gegogi
suggested.
:hammer:
ever receive sexual or too-friendly hits from spaceland? or are the effects more like
laughing gas?
lifetransform
02-05-2008, 10:46 AM
I was just going through
the forum again to see if I could find any hints as to what the 4 new pheromones are in chikara that makes it
enhance my mix so much...
no luck.
I have a strong suspicion that it's something close to P74 and P83, those
2 putatives seems to elicit similar reactions from people when I tested them, albeit not as smoothly and blatantly
detectable.
P74 - friendly, having fun, life of the party pheromone
P83 - inhibition reducing, impulse
encouraging pheromone
:smite:
terry0400-40
02-05-2008, 11:26 AM
omg lol, I remember reading this dental story from 'other place' forum haha.
really makes me wanna try spaceland plus pot...
cttm2 is always a good chatty product, but wears out too
fast. I've found that instant openess is the most versatile in most situations, like Gegogi suggested.
:hammer:
ever receive sexual or too-friendly hits from spaceland? or are the effects more like laughing
gas?I have some mixes made up in atomisers Spaceland + NPA + Androsterone
sorta like using npa+soe or alpha7+soe.
Certainly using the
stuff alone can produce some mindless motormouth so i now use it in mixes, or use it alone and add 1/4
aRONE.
2 Drops of Alpha7 and couple sprays Spaceland do it for
me good.
Alpha A314 @ 2 drops and Alpha 7 @ 1 drop is another
magic mix, very smooth attraction mix once conversation has been initiated.
I tried instant honesty but only had a 2.5 ml trialsize so needed more to evaluate its effects, I
was of the opinion that Instant Honesty may suit me better and produce more intimate conversation than instant
openess, seeing that IH is predominantly more betanol less alphanol probably produce less motormouth lol.
lifetransform
02-05-2008, 08:04 PM
instant honesty works
better in 1 on 1 settings. I had on tons of IH when that girl stayed in my car and we chatted away for 4
hours.
I thought the same thing at first of IO, but then after some trials I realized that you need both IO and
IH to maximize the benefits.
IO does indeed encourage motor mouth, but that's not a bad thing, you can always
guide the convo towards more intimate topics. I prefer the girls to do most of the talking anyways, so I don't
have to reveal too much about myself, and they think that I'm a good listener. (another downside of IH, you really
have to watch what you say and not give away the farm...happened to me several times and I kick myself afterwards)
IH does not open girls up as well as IO, too intense and serious for breaking the ice.
these days, I use more
IO when I'm in a group setting and I'm noticing more girls initiate convos with me on their own. I bring a togo
IH with me and excuse myself to the restroom to apply it when I'm in 1 on 1 settings.
terry0400-40
02-05-2008, 08:23 PM
instant honesty works better in 1 on 1 settings. I had on tons of IH when that girl
stayed in my car and we chatted away for 4 hours.
I thought the same thing at first of IO, but then after some
trials I realized that you need both IO and IH to maximize the benefits.
IO does indeed encourage motor mouth, but
that's not a bad thing, you can always guide the convo towards more intimate topics. I prefer the girls to do most
of the talking anyways, so I don't have to reveal too much about myself, and they think that I'm a good listener.
(another downside of IH, you really have to watch what you say and not give away the farm...happened to me several
times and I kick myself afterwards)
IH does not open girls up as well as IO, too intense and serious for
breaking the ice.
these days, I use more IO when I'm in a group setting and I'm noticing more girls initiate
convos with me on their own. I bring a togo IH with me and excuse myself to the restroom to apply it when I'm in 1
on 1 settings.:goodpost: Really good information and fab presentation, had
ta give you + reps. :type:
kevio
02-05-2008, 10:23 PM
LT. Do you know the ratio of alpha
and beta -nol in each Instant product? I remember Spaceland is mainly alpha. IS is 30% beta. IO is 70%???
lifetransform
02-06-2008, 01:54 AM
yup, somewhere along those
lines...
IS - mainly TAA, don't know if it has any -nols in it.
IH - 80% beta -nol
IO- 80% alpha -nol
CTTM2 -
50/50 alpha/beta -nol
spaceland...forgot lol
terry knows more about spaceland. =)
lifetransform
02-06-2008, 01:55 AM
:goodpost: Really good information and fab
presentation, had ta give you + reps. :type:
blush...:wub:
terry0400-40
02-06-2008, 03:00 AM
yup, somewhere along those lines...
IS - mainly TAA, don't know if it has any
-nols in it.
IH - 80% beta -nol
IO- 80% alpha -nol
CTTM2 - 50/50 alpha/beta -nol
spaceland...forgot lol
terry knows more about spaceland. =)Just about 100% Alpha Androstenol with
possibly a small touch of stabiliser or fixitive if i recall.
My motivation for ordering it in the first
place as well as ordering Androsterone was to make my own version of Scent of Eros.
But i am not sure if SOE is a mix of beta nol
and Alpha nol + aRONE.
If SOE is a combo of the 2 nols, I dont think we will get the information regarding the ratios
ect, probably secret id say.
lifetransform
02-06-2008, 06:54 AM
I remember seeing JVK post
the ratio of soe on the other forum not too long ago-
90% half half alpha beta -nol, 10% -rone.
I reserve
the right to be wrong. :hammer:
terry0400-40
02-06-2008, 10:56 AM
I remember seeing JVK post the ratio of soe on the other forum not too long ago-
90%
half half alpha beta -nol, 10% -rone.
I reserve the right to be wrong. :hammer:Sounds ok, seems like it would be a workable combo, Had a few bottles of SOE and numerous g/pks, like
other good products sometimes very positive great results and sometimes nothing noticed.
It seems so that sometimes suitable
conditions and suitable targets come together at the correct times to get the best advantage of a product and or a
mix and sometimes they just dont line up, but when they do it can be a wonderful event and also awsome in its
perceived effects.
I am very happy with my results overall and as time goes by i find that one has gained the
intuition to mix and match pheromones to suit the best perceived windows of opportunity.
Im just waiting for the correct time to
apply my planned 4spr Chikara and 1spr TE blast.
Ectoplasm
02-06-2008, 01:55 PM
I got so many positive results today it's blowing my mind. I upped the dosage to 5
sprays today for experiment. went to class, nothing special happened at first, then we broke into groups for
discussion and boom all the IOIs started to pop up all over the place. first, I was the only male in my group so
that gave my mones plenty of room to work its magic. (it's interesting to note that all of the other groups were
either all male or all female, I was included in an all male group the last time we broke into groups, b4 I started
adding chikara in my mix)
the girls in my group ranged from 18-35+ and all were behaving very friendly towards
me, laughing at every little joke I made, giving me their full attention when I talked and welcomed my input,
constant eye contact, looking down and away, etc. these were the same girls that sat with me for the last 2 classes
and never paid any attention to me. I try some kino on all the girls and none of them seemed to mind, taking their
hand and touching their shoulders etc. at the of the class, one girl in particular stayed behind to chat with me and
walked me to my car(even tho she parked all the way on the other side of campus), then I drove her to her car and we
sat in the car and talked for about 4 hours till all the windows fogged up and she said 'oh it's totally titanic'
lol
suffice it to say, chikara obviously works better the more I apply. I will keep upping the dosage till I
start seeing OD reactions. 6-7 sprays for tomorrow! :wave:
Did you use ONLY these 5 sprays of Chikara,
or still in a mix?
lifetransform
02-06-2008, 04:43 PM
Did you use ONLY these 5 sprays of Chikara, or still in a mix?
always in a mix.
:smite:
chikara doesn't work much on its own for some weird reason.
here's the typical mix I use day to day
in case you're wondering-
new version A314 - 3 drops, neck and wrist
Edge - 6 sprays, neck and chest
NPA-
2 dabs, wrist
instant honesty - 5 sprays, wrist and hair
instant openess - 7 sprays, chest and hair
come talk to
me2 - 4 sprays, neck and hair
instant shine 2x - 3 sprays, neck chest
chikara - 7 sprays, neck and chest
lifetransform
02-11-2008, 01:04 AM
damn, my chikara bottle is
already down to 1/3 after 1 month of usage.
just ordered 3 more chikaras and 4 liquid trusts. hehe
:hammer:
so far, I still can't be absolutely certain liquid trust actually does anything, BUT...I've long ago
learned to trust 'coincidences' when it comes to matters of the mone.
went out on couple of dates with the girl
from class. she is responding well to my mix and my advances. on one of the dates we went to play pool and I
decided to add some liquid trust (6 sprays) in my mix to see if there's any difference in her reactions, ANY kind
of subtle difference to demonstrate that liquid trust does have some sort of effect.
well, at first she seemed ok
when we met up at a coffee shop, then we got into my car (enclosed space) and she started asking about some of the
scars on my hand- not a big deal, but she never noticed b4. then as we were playing pool, I'd grab her and kiss
her cheek and neck every chance I got. (when she sank a ball or miss or when I did something funny) everything was
going REALLY well, I felt she was becoming much much more comfortable with me. whereas b4 I was usually the one to
initiate kino with her - hold her, kiss her neck, hold her hand, brush her hair...etc, this time she started to put
her arms around my waist while I was aiming for a shot or give me a tiny peck on my cheek when I was holding
her.
I was emboldened by her behavior so I became really aggressive with my remarks and displays of sexual
arousal by her. I'd wait for her to bend over the pool table studying a shot and say "are you TRYING to turn me
on?" and she'd bounce straight up and acting really self conscious, yet never showing annoyance or anger, just
shyness.
or I'll get really into kissing her neck and she'd giggle and smile and eventually pull me off her and
say 'ok, ok, go play pool' with big grin.
again, I still can't be sure this is liquid trust, it might've
just been a logical kino escalation as that was the 3rd date we went on.
she did comment that she felt we were
moving kinda fast as we don't know much about each other but she really liked spending time with me, that was b4 I
added liquid trust, it was chikara and instant honesty at work.
will continue testing adding liquid trust with my
new chikara enhanced mix.
lifetransform
02-11-2008, 09:00 AM
"Estrogen increases the
effects of oxytocin, while testosterone mutes them and causes them to dissipate sooner, so women feel all
oxytocin's effects more strongly."
found this from a liquid trust dosage experiment review off google
search.
very interesting, I'll increase my dosage to 10 sprays next time and hug her real tight for a while to
make sure she's inhaling enough of the oxytocin. then we'll see if she behaves like she did on the pool
date.
also, does this mean oxytocin becomes more effective the closer a woman is to menstruation? cuz the
estrogen levels skyrockets during that cycle.
:hammer:
DrSmellThis
02-11-2008, 07:19 PM
How
much, and what was the reaction? I've always felt safe with Chikara, and the only neg I've gotten is way too much
chattiness.
Admittedly, I always play it safe and don't try to OD. My max dose is 1-2 sprays, usually layered
with TE or A7.I started getting OD at 3 full sprays -- a real closed off reaction. At smaller doses by
itself it enhanced trust.
Please take what lifetransform is saying about CK as only his personal
experince, and not the experience of the typical user.
lifetransform
02-12-2008, 12:13 PM
I started getting OD at 3 full sprays -- a real closed off reaction. At smaller doses
by itself it enhanced trust.
Please take what lifetransform is saying about CK as only his personal
experince, and not the experience of the typical user.
yes, quite right. I require much higher
dosages to see the results I want and I don't OD easily.
idesign
02-13-2008, 04:10 PM
yes,
quite right. I require much higher dosages to see the results I want and I don't OD easily.
It seems
that huge doses would overcome any effect of the wearer's skin and chem makeup. In such a case, a preponderance of
chemical -mones would completely overwhelm any natural signature. Given that a small dose of, say NPA, produces a
signature many times that of any natural output, I wonder where any benefit would be beyond a certain dose.
It
occurs to me that its the "target" who reads a -mone signature. General forum experience suggests that there are
limits to what, in general, a target can tolerate in terms of "power doses".
All that to say, I mean ask, have
you ever OD'd on any of your mixes?
idesign
02-13-2008, 04:16 PM
I
started getting OD at 3 full sprays -- a real closed off reaction. At smaller doses by itself it enhanced
trust.
Good to know Doc. My max has been 2 sprays, and I backed off from there both alone and esp in
mixes. I can do 2 sprays as a standalone, but dislike the chattiness. One spray with TE or A7 is nice.
lifetransform
02-13-2008, 11:25 PM
It
seems that huge doses would overcome any effect of the wearer's skin and chem makeup. In such a case, a
preponderance of chemical -mones would completely overwhelm any natural signature. Given that a small dose of, say
NPA, produces a signature many times that of any natural output, I wonder where any benefit would be beyond a
certain dose.
It occurs to me that its the "target" who reads a -mone signature. General forum experience
suggests that there are limits to what, in general, a target can tolerate in terms of "power doses".
All that to
say, I mean ask, have you ever OD'd on any of your mixes?
yup, horrible OD experiences while testing one
of the experimental mix from 'the other place' called mx103 - a spray form of A314.
I used to go up to 10+
sprays of Edge (mostly applied on clothes) and never had much OD problems. I'm pretty positive I'm one of those
types that don't produce much natural -none.
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