Anyone finding SOE's musk way too stong? Or is it just me?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m asking this mostly b/c I almost never wear colognes. When I do I\'d normally put two dabs of an EDT on my neck & one on each wrist. (So likely no one would smell it unless they were w/in kissing distance.)

Anyway, I\'ve been using two 2-3\" swipes on my neck & maybe 3/4\" on each wrist. In that amount, the SOE seems overpowering to me. I\'m guessing that\'s just my sensitive nose that\'s not used to fragrances?

I like the effect the SOE seems to be having. (Maybe I\'ll make a post out of that if get the time.) However, I\'m being paranoid that I\'ve got too much scent on... I don\'t want to smell like a kid that just discovered cologne & splashed it on by the bucket. images/icons/tongue.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah, SOE has quite a scent. I don\'t like it either, since it makes me self-conscious.

Incidentally, I swore I smelled it in a room the other day, when I wasn\'t wearing it, so someone is on to pheros as well!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

On the other hand, most things are really strong for a short while. Give it 15 minutes before you judge if you smell like a french cathouse. Seriously, smell your wrists after 15 min and see what your opinion is. I reacted the same way, but after a bit of time, it settles in and you don\'t think about it...

[Bruce]

Hi All,
This is VERY handy feedback about a scented product, so please feel free to throw in your oppinion here. It is something very easy to fix; just a matter of backing off of the fragrance when they make the next batch.

Keep in mind what the real problem is with \"too strong\" though. It doesn\'t mean you are going to smell like a French WH necessarily, because all you have to do is apply less. In fact, I think it is \"too strong\" myself, and I manage to use it without ODing (well, OK, one time I ODed). The good new is you can make the bottle last a loooong time, but the bad news is there is not very much phero in the paultry little dab that I end up wearing. I generally just put a nickel sized smear on one wrist and then rub my wrists together. Nobody is going to get overwhelmed with that small amount, but pheros??? Not enough there probably. So, if others feel this way too, then I think we should push for a less scented version next time.
Cheers,
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bruce, I think the scent of SOE is too strong too.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

actually i think the fragrance is weak and i have to put a lot on before it seems noticeable to someone else

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree with JPGR. I don\'t think the smell is all the overwehlming. It seems to me that people have a different tolerence level for different scents. I almost feel like I\'m not wearing any pheros when I put mine on because I can barely smell them even if I use the recommended dosage.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Individual skin caracteristics are the reason why fragrances do seem more intense or last longer in some people. I once had a cologne that faded to nothing in about 1 hour. Or maybe your nose is more sensitive to SOE\'s scent, in any case you MUST be comfortable wearing the stuff, that´s way I\'ve given to a friend my Ylang-Ylang PI. I can´t stand the scent of it.

[jose]

I feel the same, I think the smell is too strong. You might have to apply more to get the desired effect which might turn people off to the smell. Plus I think it should be more of a mans scent like musk instead of the fragrance they have now which seems more appropriate on a woman.

[Whitehall]

Yes - and - No.

My basis is that the couple of swipes under the neck are pretty invisible to my nose. However, once I put a dab on the back of my hand, rubbed them together, and sat down at my computer. The smell that arose from my hands to my nose perched over the keyboard was very intense. It was qualitatively different also from the under neck scent. (I covered this event in a prior post.)

I surmise that different skin locations and the heat from rubbing can cause different release rates and perhaps changes in composition.

The \"fragrance\" added (not the pheromones) seems citrus to me, not the musks I\'m use to. It is rather light but not necessarily high quality although I should define \"quality\" here as covering the \'mones. For good quality citrus, try Eau d\' Sauvage.

My only qualm with the delivery vehicle is the oil trail the roller ball leaves - it remains visible for too long - I\'d rather not have to touch it and rub it in and around. That\'s not a biggie though.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Good idea Bruce, I didn\'t think about you having an influence with the designer of the product. images/icons/wink.gif

I\'d be much more likely to reorder SOE if there was a reduced scent or even unscented version. (If I have a choice between a scented/unscented product, I\'ll always get the unscented.)

[Paul canada]

Hey All:

Maybe Bruce you could talk to James and ask him if he could create an unscented SOE or get pretty close to little smell at all. Then he can have a scented and unscented version.

Just a suggestion

Paul

[**DONOTDELETE**]

HEY EVERYONE THE CREATOR OF SOE IS HERE ON THE FORUM - dah its james v kohl look for his postings all over the place, so if you want a less scented version but up a thread with a question for him hell anwswer. The seller of attraction and andro i think were here at some point to.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I just got SOE yestrday and i must say i love the scent. i had a couple of female friends comment on the scent and they told me it was a very nice smell. i waited the 15 minutes and it still smells great.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I put about four two inch swipes on at a time. I\'m close to a ton of girls during lunch and in classes (both girls I\'ve never met and close friends), yet none of them have commented on the scent.
How much do you guys put on for the girls to notice the scent?

[Bruce]

Yes, I like the fragrance too. In fact, I had some input into that part in the planning stages. IMHO, it would just be good to back off on the fragrance a little to allow for a larger application and thus more actual pheromones per application. BUT that is just my oppion/preference. If others are rolling on miles of SOE and don\'t feel ODed on fragrance, then you take what I have to say with a grain of salt on this, because I am otherwise quite happy with the product.

One other point on fragrances is the rate at which it fades, which is especially important if not critical with pheromone colognes. Alter Ego is a prime example of a great product with on big problem, the fragrance fades to virtually zero in a couple of hours and you are left with a noticible aNONE smell.

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I guess if you want unscented, you can mix it up yourself with the chem kit.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

To Bruce:
I can not smell anything in AE after the scent fades away, I do however smell BIG time whatever is in TE and NPA. I had to mix a 1 to 9 ratio of NPA/Issey, the \"standard\" mix of 1 to 5 was to noticeable for me.
Maybe I\'m sensitive to the \"secret ingredient\" of NPA.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I really like the scent, and it\'s not too strong. In fact I\'ve been using way MORE of it that normal \'cause the smell seems to fade a bit and I want to keep it going.

I\'m really reluctant to report the -uh- ongoing hit I\'m having with SOE. Let\'s just say it\'s been a MAJOR hit with someone nothing ever happened with in many months of dating. And I know the SOE was a major contributor because I got a one-line email referring to my smell afterwards.

I\'ve had SOE for maybe a couple weeks and it\'s half gone. I\'m very happy with it. Don\'t change a thing!

[jvkohl]

Okay guys, I know I\'ve alluded to this before, and perhaps even came right out and said it. Do not concern yourself with self evaluations of conscious odor detected from SOE. As men, each of us is likely to find the scent somewhat aversive, depending upon our sensitivity to its components: odorous to some, not to others-- like I said, depending opon our sensitivity. The musk fragrance detected by all is a combination of about 87 different types of musk used in fragrances today. That\'s why we hear: \"it smells like____to me.\" The wearer who says this obviously makes the odor association--usually a pleasant association. He is less likely to make the pleasant association with the pheromonal components, which exert their effects mostly on women. If a man can readily smell the pheromonal components, he\'s not likely to find them attractive--unless he finds other men attractive. Latent homosexuality anyone? Not necessarily, could remind you of your glory days on whatever team you played for--and of the guys you associated the good times with.

So, most of us will find the _odor_ of SOE attractive; supersmellers will find some components unattractive; most men will not detect the pheromonal components--and finally, most women will not consciously detect the pheromonal components, but will respond with subtle to major changes in behavior associated with male pheromones. No one can predict the effect SOE will have on any particular woman, but overall the effect will be quite pleasing. That\'s the way pheromones work. Not as aphrodisiacs; human sexuality is too complicated for that, but as enhancers of masculinity--you can\'t beat pheromones for that. And enhanced masculinity is typically associated with good experiences by women.

Some of you know lots about human pheromones but at times seem to forget the concept. When subjective comments are made about how SOE smells, we get many different opinions because of the inherrant subjective nature of our olfactory perception. The comments are fun to read, because they vary so widely--just as all of us should expect.

On the other hand, if the women who smelled SOE reported such varied subjective reponses, Bruce and I would have a problem that needed to be addressed--and would certainly modify the formula. But that\'s not what I\'m reading here--or hearing from any woman, anywhere--especially the ones that you guys are saying have responded to SOE. As long as you don\'t OD, you\'ll be fine about 99% of the time. Start mixing it with other fragrances at will, but you are then adulterating the product and the conceptualization of human pheromones that I have tried to manage and promote with SOE.

I enjoy reading about mixes that work better for some of you, but keep in mind that body chemistry is a very individual thing. The mix that works for you probably won\'t work for many others. SOE should work, albeit in varying degrees, on almost all of you. Experiment at your own risk/reward. But, most
of all, have fun with this stuff! That\'s what I\'ve been doing with it for the past 9 years, after first playing with androsterone in 1993. I\'d venture to say that you are unlikely to surprise me with your comments about SOE, since, sans the fragrance, I\'ve heard just about anything you can imagine about androsterone and androstenol both from men and from women.
The few times that I have noticably offended someone by wearing SOE, I\'ve had to smile, wondering why they made such a negative association. This leads me to speculate on their sexuality--which is the reason for the smile. If I haven\'t OD\'d, the women who don\'t like SOE are almost undoubtedly not worth the time and effort I would otherwise expend towards a good relationship, whether short or long term. Either I\'ll catch them when they\'re more receptive, or it\'s no big loss.
Apologies for going on about this for so long. Again, have fun--and keep reporting on your experiences. I\'ll respond whenever I can.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks James. images/icons/smile.gif

Of what you wrote, this in particular cough my eye, \"supersmellers will find some components unattractive.\" I think maybe based on that I might be a \"supersmeller\". images/icons/tongue.gif

I\'ve been meaning to ask some female friends if I\'m wearing too much fragrance, but don\'t want to reveal I\'m wearing pheros, so I\'ve been trying to think how to ask.

As, far as mixing my own, I\'m not quite to the point of that yet. Plus I really do like the rollerball idea... as long as contamination doesn\'t change the phero composition, I could care less if my skin gets in the bottle.

And I do like the fragrance... it just needs a couple hours to die down after using the doses most people are using, IMO.

[Whitehall]

An important aspect of smell is the difficulty we have in attaching words to the sensations we have through our nose. In large part, that\'s due to the lack of neural pathways between the speech centers and the smell centers. There are many pathologies where speech is disconnected from its normal links with other brain functions.

A chemical may have a specific response in all individuals but everyone has a different association between the stimulus and the word they use to represent it.


Hence, some of us call the fragrance(s) of SoE musk and others call it citrus. James KNOWS what chemical ingredients were used but our associations between the \"87 varieties\" of synthetic chemicals used to simulate musk sometimes come out as different words.

I\'ve often posted words in agreement with James that we shouldn\'t be so particular about our own sensation of pheromones. We are often self-conscious of our own smell because we might not feel as alpha male as we think we smell. Real alphas tend to mark their territory, as with fat cat cigar smoke. That\'s what you\'re doing with exogenous pheromones too.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Geez, Scientist, I\'m glad you\'re having so much success with SOE. Why are you reluctant to report your success? :-). We all value your opinion.

How much SOE are you using per day? I think the fact that you used up half the bottle in a couple of weeks proves that your estimate of 30 inches of roll = 0.015 mg pheromone is way off the mark! It sounds like you\'re using about 7-8 times that amount per day, assuming you used ~2.5 mg pheromones in three weeks or so.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I had one of my girl friends smell my neck about an hour after I applied two 3 inch swipes of SOE. We\'re best friends, and I\'ve known her for about 12 years, but there\'s never been any \"chemicals between us\", and I don\'t want it that way either. She said the scent smelled like wood. Interesting...

[a.k.a.]

My vote is to keep SOE the way it is.
I don\'t think the scent is feminine. It smells kind of woodsy to me too, and it seems to get kind of smokey with time.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Truth -

I\'m intentionally OD\'ing. For one, I like the smell, and everyone else does, too. I\'m also applying it to my skin in \"non productive\" areas -- chest and elsewhere. And I burned up a little in experiments with NPA. I\'m not wearing it every day -- only when I go out, but I\'d say I\'m applying about 12 4\" strokes to my neck, and about 8-10 strokes to my chest, and 4 10\" strokes to my forearm. Serious OD. And then I\'m doing refreshers on top of that about 6 hours later.

But, I smell great, and things are going well. I\'m not going into any detail out of respect for the lady(s) (Just as my prior reports only expressed their behavior, and not the consequences of it.)

If you use NPA, go really, really light on it. I used .02ml to .2 ml of SOE, and I think I was about 2X what it should have been. After the first \"hit,\" I dropped NPA completely as the distances between my date and I have been consistently getting smaller. images/icons/smile.gif I think SOE will be contributing to the landing my next SO.

Can you tell I\'m pretty damn happy? It\'s \'bout freaking time!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Wow, scientist, I really listen to what you say because ... well, you\'re careful scientist! So, it sounds like you only had mild results with phero products until your current OD experiences with SOE (?). It could very well be that your previous estimate of 0.02 mg pheromone was an upper limit on -none, since, at the time, all the major products contained a lot of -none. Your current experience of putting in less than 10% NPA in your mix is also consistent with the figure, since you\'re using about 10 times as much pheros now.

So, are you concerned about economics? Your previous recommended phero usage would have cost us about 25 cents per day, while now it could be several dollars!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Scientist,

I suspect you are a young guy, early twenties maybe. I\'m a bit older and I tried a high SoE to NPA ratio and it was a dud. I\'m now going SoE to NPA 50/50 along with cologne and it seems to be working ok. Still not the magic bullet that I\'m hoping for though. I must produce absolutely ZERO -none on my own because NPA only seems to work on me in OD doses.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, it could be that 50/50 NPA/SOE ratio works works better when you\'re trying to stay in the ballpark of 0.02 mg pheromone total. Scientist is using a lot more pheromone than I ever put on, so even 10% NPA is significant.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

oh ok truth,

thanks for pointing that out. did some quick math in the brain and you are right. I\'m using about 1 drop NPA, 1 drop SoE, 2 drops cologne per atomizer spray...and using 1, sometimes 2 sprays at a time(so 2 drops of each phero max). I worked it out earlier how many mg of phero per drop but right now can\'t remember and don\'t feel like busting out the calculator again.(Plus the pinot grigio is kicking in and that makes me \"math lazy\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I wouldn\'t read too much into my personal dosage of SOE as a recommendation for others. The 0.02 mg figure is based on my going through everyone else\'s hits. Not mine. I\'m a really bad example to follow, this situation really is my first \"major\" hit. I had some positive flirting experiences before, but not like this. I\'m just playing around with my personal doses, THIS IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION!

Truth, you\'re correct, the 0.02mg is a suggested dose for -none containing products. I don\'t believe it\'s possible to OD on \'nol, other than getting headaches. I have no idea on -rone limits. I do think -rone has limits just because I can now smell -rone after enough exposures -- I can pick it out of \"old\" SOE and AE now.

FYI, when I\'ve used the NPA/SOE mix, I\'ve been very careful about the dose. I am wearing .009mg of NPA\'s pheros, which is on the low-end of the \"zone\" that .02mg is the cap of. There was a fair bit evidence from my previous hit study that low doses on the range were more effective that high doses.

I\'m not too worried about the financial situation. While I am no longer a millionaire, I was one in the not-too-distant past, so you might correctly guess a few bottles of SOE aren\'t going to break the bank. But again, don\'t go pouring a half-bottle of SOE on yourself because I found ONE person who responds to this. (And there\'s a lot of other psychological stuff going on here as well. Pheros are only a part of it.)

StanBo - nope, not that young. 34. I don\'t think my own -none is very strong, based on my solid \"beta male\" aura and no major histories with women.