How long does it take for androstenone to deteriorate all on its own?

[Sublime]

Hey guys,

I did a stupid thing and tried to fill my apartment with the smell of

pheromones rather than put them on. I did this by dabbing the bottles onto some tissue paper, and putting it in a

ziplock bag to avoid touching it, and I put it in my closet to let the smell permeate the space. I used SOE, NPA,

and APC. That was a month ago.

Since then I've done my laundry and managed to get most of the smell out of my

clothes. I used oxi-clean and I also tried ammonia. The chemicals began to irritate me, but at least it helped to

get some of the smell out. I've also tried using an ozonator which seems to help.

I'm afraid that there are

items in my closet which I can't clean that have absorbed the androstenone. Rather than tossing them out, will the

androstenone eventually break down and be gone all on its own?

How long does it usually take before it

deteriorates? Will ozonating speed up the process? I'm hesitant to use the ozonator more, as there are health

risks to using it in large concentrations.

[belgareth]

I thought you had tossed out

all your mones and were not using them any longer? That you were through with them forever? You were the one

complaining about them before, how you couldn't get rid of the smell and could smell everybody else's natural

mones, right? What's the deal here? If they were bothering you so much, why did you do something like that?

[Surreal]

How long ago was it since you

made first contact with -mones?

For some people there is a period of adjustment when first introduced to -mones.

I went through a week of horrendous nightmares until my body got used to the extra chemical stimulation. When buying

new -mones their seems to be a new/different effect for the first couple days of exposure. Another example is using

A314 I had a confidence boost and could not stop puffing out my chest like I was a sleeze bar trying to get the

attention of ladies.

Also, not to be funny, but Sublime are you Bipolar?

[Sublime]

Yeah I was complaining about the

pheromones before. I did throw them out. I received some negative feedback from my old post, so I decided to try

asking again. I did not try on more pheromones. This is the same incident from before. People here seem to prefer

to call you names rather than actually give you an answer. The pheromones made my emotions go completely out of

control, so I can understand why you guys would call me crazy. I've eliminated most of the mones in my

environment, so I'm actually in control of my emotions now.

I first made contact with the mones in mid

september, 2 months ago. In fact, they did give me nightmares. They also made me very paranoid, angry, aggressive,

and gave me headaches, just to name a few of the unpleasant side effects.

I still have not received an answer to

my question. How long does it take before the androstenone will go away on its own, naturally? Don't bash

me, because you don't know the answer.

[belgareth]

I'm not bashing you because I

don't know the answer. I AM questioning you because I am extremely sceptical that mones could possibly cause the

things you claim. IF what you say is true and IF it is based in reality then none of the normal rules apply to you

and there is no known answer. So far, you have made claims that are way outside anything I have heard about in my

experience and I would love to see something to verify your claims.

This is not intended to say you are lying or

crazy, it simply means that, based on my knowledge and experience, I do not believe what you claim could be

possible. But if it is really happening, the normal expectations do not apply to you and nobody can give you a real

answer.

[Mtnjim]

Sublime, no matter where you post

your question, here or "the other place", you continue to get the same answer. The results you are seeing are not

normal, and as far as any one can tell, are of your own creation. The results you are seeing are all in your own

mind. Both here and at "the other place", people have suggested that you might need to get some help, that is the

best answer you will ever get. Perhaps Tisha said it best:

OK I really feel for you. But this is not a

OD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamics) effect. What you are saying is virtually impossible.

Allthough you never should have used all those products together and you wasted them by throwing them out instead of

learning to use them correctly its still not nearly enough to

OD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamics) or have any kind of build up.
I dont want to be rude

or mean because I believe you believe this is from the products but I am pretty sure its your imagination. You have

read about the OD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamics) effect and now your nervous about

getting it and so you believe you smell it.


As far as a "normal" answer to your question, a "normal"

person would find the ~none gone in about 10-12 hours.:blink:

[Sublime]

I've heard other reports on

this forum that -none, if it gets in your clothes, can take 2-3 weeks or several washings to get it out. I know

that if it's on your skin, the bacteria and oils on your skin will cause it to break down faster.

My question is

for the chemists. In a controlled lab setting, where there is no bacteria present to break down androstenone, how

long does it take before it breaks down on its own?

By the way, this IS really happening and I think it would be

to your benefit, or to the benefit of the phero manufacturers, to know about it. That way, when it happens again to

someone else in the future, you'll actually be able to give good advice and properly deal with the situation. Just

because it's not quote unquote normal, doesnt mean its not real. It just means it's something that falls outside

the current body of knowledge.

I'm doing YOU a favor by reporting it and seeking help.

[Surreal]

I can not answer your original

question because I do not have the required lab and the education in the respective field.

Due to your extreme

sensitivity only the rare qualified chemist can answer your question with the precision you require.

I do hope

one does chime in.


I first made contact with the mones in mid september, 2 months ago. In

fact, they did give me nightmares. They also made me very paranoid, angry, aggressive, and gave me headaches, just

to name a few of the unpleasant side effects.

Due to both of use having similar effects during the

intitial exposure to -mones I don't find anything you say absurd at all. It happens not to be experienced by all

but a slim percentage of the love-scent community.

Seriously, are you Bipolar? I ask in curiosity because I am

Bipolar II w/ultradian cycling. The effect of -mones seem to change from day to day and I've had experiences which

not only crosses but shatters the border of sanity.

[gaf]

I've heard

other reports on this forum that -none, if it gets in your clothes, can take 2-3 weeks or several washings to get it

out.

I think you just answered your own question....
Seeing as you didn't apply directly to your

clothing or other items but rather let "the smell permeate" I can't see why the mones remain. If anything I'd

guess that it's just the scent of the other products and not the actual none , rone or nol.
Dude, you need to

take it easy :frustrate are you always so angry when someone questions you? :run:

[Sublime]

If I wasn't bipolar before,

I'm certainly bipolar now... definitely having mood swings, going from euphoria to depression. My older brother

was diagnosed as bipolar about 6 months ago, so there is a chance that I have it, too. I had symptoms of depression

when I was younger, but never had bipolar symptoms.

I started having these mood swings only after having worn the

pheromones about 2 times. I also stopped working out, stopped meditating, stopped doing yoga, and everything else I

do on a daily basis to control my emotional states and mood levels. I spent all my time worrying about how to get

rid of the pheromones. That could also contribute to some bipolar-like symptoms. Maybe I'm bipolar and dont know

it, because usually I take care of my mental health, emotions, and body so damn well, I never get any of the

symptoms. The pheromones have thrown my mood and normal routine so out of wack, that it could have allowed the

bipolar to surface.

Yet, when I smell people's BO now, it stinks real bad and makes me go on that euphoric high,

even makes me sweat a little. Other people around me seem to be going on euphoric highs also. They even say "I

feel drunk for some reason" or "I feel kinda stoned and I dont know why" just when I'm near them for long periods,

such as in class. Female cashiers try to carry on conversations with me about nothing in particular - and try to

keep me there by asking stupid questions and fumbling with change. Male cashiers literally look away from me, and

show me the side of their face when they're giving me change, avoiding eye contact like the plague. All of these

things are very obvious behaviors that never ever occured before I used the pheromones. And all of them did again

happen today. There's got to still be pheromones somewhere on me. Any other explanation seems unlikely to

me.

I'm gonna be on this forum until things clear up. Maybe it's a coincidence that I started getting bipolar

just now. Maybe its because of the pheromones. They do mess with your mood, that I know is a fact.

P.S. Is

there any way I could talk to Bruce, or get him to read this thread?

[belgareth]

It is far more likely that

either you didn't notice those responses before, which would be perfectly normal. Or that you have changed in some

way yourself, which you have already said you did.
I also stopped working out, stopped meditating, stopped

doing yoga, and everything else I do on a daily basis to control my emotional states and mood levels. I spent all my

time worrying about how to get rid of the pheromones.

So far you have shown no evidence at all that it

is the mones. Instead, the more you tell us the more convincing you are that it is not environmental but internal

that is changed or changing. Doesn't it seem very strange to you that the only two people who have had a reaction

like you describe both demonstrate psychiatric conditions? Again, that is not a slam, it is a question based on

stated facts, nothing more.

Before concluding something based on pure conjecture you should sort out all the

possibilities and eliminate them. It could not hurt you at all to see your doctor and describe what you believe is

happening. It may be important to your well being.

I'm sure that Bruce has seen this thread.

[Sublime]

The reason I'm asking how long

does it take androstenone to break down by itself, is so that I can get a scientifically validated answer as to how

long it takes. That information is very important, because if, say, it takes 2 weeks to break down in the lab, then

I know for sure that what I'm experiencing is psychiatric. If it takes 2 months, then I know that perhaps its true

that what's happening is due to pheromones.

Without that information, the question of whether its psychiatric or

pheromonal remains pure speculation based on anecdotal evidence. I haven't come to any definite conclusions

yet.

I have contacted a guy who, I dont know if I'm allowed to mention his name here, because he may be a

competitor, but he was supposedly the first person ever to identify and isolate human pheromones. I have asked him

this question, and the reply I got was that he's on vacation running a marathon and won't be back until mid

December. So if I dont get a real answer here, I may have one in December.

[Mtnjim]

Generally I think you'll find that

in a sealed bottle in a dark, cool place ~none can last for years. On your clothes, a week or two, and on skin, 8 to

12 hours with some residue lasting perhaps 24 to 36 hours if you don't shower.

[koolking1]

clothes will work.

But, why did you permeate the mones in your closet, what was your goal?

[Sublime]

My goal was this:

I had tried

wearing them on my skin, and that led to some kind of buildup or something because a few days later in class

everyone was acting goofy and nobody could concentrate at all.

I generally dont have a problem with meeting

women. I'm very good at meeting people, spending time with them, going on dates, and also getting women to come

over to my place. The hard part for me was 'making a move' so to speak, going for the kiss and going for

sex.

So my thought was I could eliminate the buildup problem by not wearing any, and rather just placing the

smell somewhere in my room so that when I do bring a woman over, which is usually quite often, that it would help

make things turn more physical. I dont need to wear any to meet and attract women in the first place, because I'm

already very good at that without the pheromones. In fact, its the sense of confusion and euphoria that I seem to

be getting lately that actually is preventing me from meeting women in the way I usually so, instead of

helping.

So, thats why I did that.

I just got back from class. My teacher canceled class an hour early. He

said he was taking cold medicine and he was beginning to have a hard time concentrating. Now, he could have

certainly been telling the truth, however this kind of thing is almost a daily occurrence for me, that the people

around me begin getting very confused, and also verbally stating that they feel confused.

Also note that this

time I was wearing clothes that had not come into contact with any pheros, it was a totally new outfit - except for

the jacket I was wearing which could have been in the closet at the time I phero-bombed it, but this jacket is not a

likely candidate for having absorbed pheros.

The longer this goes on, the more it seems like the pheros must be

coming from ME, my body. I'm going to take some advice I heard, to clean my application points with hydrogen

peroxide. I've also heard of people getting pheros absorbed into their body and then sweating them out later. I

did inhale ALOT of pheros. I had experimented with smelling them to see what effects they had on me. Enjoyed

getting high off of them. Maybe this was my mistake.

[Sublime]

Generally I

think you'll find that in a sealed bottle in a dark, cool place ~none can last for years. On your clothes, a week

or two, and on skin, 8 to 12 hours with some residue lasting perhaps 24 to 36 hours if you don't

shower.

Mtnjim, why does it last for years in the bottle and only 1 to 2 weeks on clothes? Is it because

it gets oxidized by exposure to the air?

[Surreal]

Doesn't it seem very strange to you that the only two people who have had a reaction like you describe both

demonstrate psychiatric conditions? Again, that is not a slam, it is a question based on stated facts, nothing

more.

The wording makes it a slam in the sense it is dismissive. Particular the usage of strange.

It

makes the experience artificial. If we were talking about schizophrenia then yes perhaps it is made up in the

mind.

Now, I could see where the comment was generated from when looking at how people around Sublime are

effected in a similar fashion to an OD situation. Either Sublime is 'seeing' things or his body is generating

massive amounts of -mones. Is not the latter possible?

*edit* Sublime, I think you should stay at a friend's

house for a few days and buy a change or two of new cloths and ditch the jacket. When your nerves settle down return

back to your place with a clear mind and slowly intake the surrounds to determine the existance of -mones or

not.

IDK

[Sublime]

Thanks for taking me seriously

surreal.

I just realized something new that could be the answer.

When I first wore them on my skin, it was at

night and I went out for not more than an hour. Then, I came home and went to sleep. I did this on 2, maybe 3

different occasions. Now, if mones last 8-12 hours on skin, that means when I went to bed, it must have gotten

rubbed into my sheets while I slept.

I haven't washed my sheets once since this whole thing began!

Every

night I'm sleeping in the same sheets, probably rubbing more mones back onto my body. That would explain why it

seems to be coming from me. However, wouldnt the shower each morning clean it all away anyways? Hmm, damn,

thought that would be the answer.

Well, Im washing my sheets anyways, just because its a good idea to wash your

sheets.

If it lasts a week or two on clothing, I would assume that also includes washing your clothes, 1 or 2

times. I bet if left unwashed, it could last as long as I've experienced.

[tribal]

maybe your skin is special!!?

:D

[belgareth]

The

wording makes it a slam in the sense it is dismissive. Particular the usage of strange.

It makes the experience

artificial. If we were talking about schizophrenia then yes perhaps it is made up in the mind.

If you

choose to take it that way. It wasn't my intent and I made that clear. How you choose to take it is completely

outside my control.

[idesign]

Mtnjim,

why does it last for years in the bottle and only 1 to 2 weeks on clothes? Is it because it gets oxidized by

exposure to the air?

Yes, the chemicals diffuse into the air relatively quickly. That's one reason why

we have a hard time with your story.

Light is also a main culprit, that's why they're bottled in amber glass

for the most part. They should all be kept from sunlight. The same is true for perfumes, colognes,etc.

[idesign]

Thanks for

taking me seriously surreal.



Sublime, at first your story seemed "surreal", now it hard not to take

you seriously.

You have to realize that what you have going on is so far from anything normal among pheromone

users that its incumbent upon you to look for help outside this forum.

Don't take this as discouragement to

posting here, but something's wrong that nobody here can give an answer to.

We'll all be happy to hear of any

solution to your problem, along with the cause. Your problem is extreme to say the least. Any of us would learn

from what you discover from this experience.

[smooth312]

Doesn't it seem very strange to you that the only two people who have had a reaction like you describe both

demonstrate psychiatric conditions?
I'm not sure if you were referring to me as the "other" one of the

two, but I never had psychiatric conditions, I was just on drugs ;) ...big difference :D

Yeah, I remember I was

so paranoid from PI...I hadn't used it in 2 weeks, and I was thinking that when I was driving that people in their

cars 100ft away could smell me! LOL. I was insane (at the time).

Since returning to mones (and being drug-free),

I barely even notice ODs. The whole "OD" concept is in your head. You can't "OD" on something that most people

can't even smell. The OD is mostly your own perception of what you think is happening, so you act congruently to

that. Then your subsequent actions are what cause others to act awkwardly around you. It has nothing to do with the

pheromones, you've just yourself become ultra-aware of your surroundings. You're noticing things that were already

there before, you just didn't see them before because you weren't ultra-aware or sensitive of your

environment.

----------------

Even though I frequent the other site's forum more than this one (only because

they are more active), I will say this: some of the people on that forum are a little over the top in their belief

of pheromones. Even though most people are genuinely posting their experience and it's mostly honest, there are

sometimes when I wonder if a user is just another userID of the admin or something. Some of the 'stories' are

blown out of proportion and exaggerated. Don't believe everything you read on there, I would venture to say some

poster there are full of shit (maybe getting paid to post?).

And then you read stuff like that, and stuff about

ODs, thinking that pheromones are just sooo powerful. It's not so, but your belief system changes because of what

you read, whether you consciously believe it or not, your body is now aware of the possibility. So when you are

super-aware of the body-language of others and notice the slightest awkward behavior, your mind connects the dots

where there may not even be any relation.

The fact is, you want to believe it's the pheromones, so that's what

you are seeing. What you see is based on what you believe, and when you see what you believe, it concretes those

beliefs furthers, and you get stuck in this crazy cycle.

----------------

I mean, Sublime, I know what you

think you're going through. It's real to you, but it's really not real. And when others try to convince you

that it's not real, you'll think they're lying to you. Yeah, it sucks. But listen, I suspect part of this could

be that you are probably somewhat of an introvert. I have a hunch, because that's one of my natural tendencies, to

'stay in my own head' and over-analyze things I see.

What you need to do is get out of your head. This is by

far the best thing you can do, and it's how I got over my issue. You have a fear that has nothing to do with

pheromones. I don't know the root of the fear, only you know it. But that's what is driving all of this. You

have to get out of your head and be social with people everywhere you go. Ignore all body language, just talk to

people. When you are somewhere - anywhere - don't allow your mind to pre-occupy with thoughts. Focus on what is

outside of yourself, on other people, things, and objects. If you are having a conversation, focus all your

attention on the other person. Don't try to figure out what they may be thinking about you. Let go of the result,

enjoy the process. Be in the moment. You mentioned that you stopped meditating and exercising...don't you think

this could have something to do with the way you're feeling? Yes, maybe you initially stopped those because of the

pheromones, but not doing those for 1-2 weeks can definitely make you feel significantly different.

Just let go

of all these thoughts. It's easier than you think. You're over complicating things, and don't listen to the

people on that other forum who talk about ozonators and all that bullshit. When I was going through a similar thing

as you, I would shower 4-5 times a day. I would scrub my skin with benzoyl peroxide and nioxin shampoo until my

skin was red. I tried every possible 'solution' out there. It's all bullshit. The best thing that rids you of

androstenone is a little time. And not weeks, just 24-48hrs is enough time. Like I said this is coming from me, a

guy who used to think people could smell me from inside their cars 100ft away. I had family over and thought they

were all avoiding me. I skipped so many classes that I even failed a class. It wasn't because of the pheromones.

It was all me. So take responsibility for what's going on in your head. You haven't once mentioned if you're on

drugs, or taking lots of caffeine or what, but maybe you don't want to share that information. I would bet $1000

that you are on something, whether it's drugs, caffeine, or a prescription, or you have some form of social

anxiety. There is no way the pheromones have anything to do with this.

With all that said, I wish you the best

of luck. You can pull through this.

[Sublime]

Thanks smooth. Definitely good

advice.

There was another person earlier in this thread who said they were bipolar, and had a similar

experience.

I'm not naturally extroverted. When I'm extroverted it's usually a very conscious and focused

effort on my part. And I've gotten good at it. And I do analyze everything, I've been analyzing body language

for years.

Your $1000 bet is wrong. I dont do any drugs. I very rarely drink caffeine. I haven't had alcohol

in months, but I drink occasionally (thats normal), and I'm not on any prescriptions or medications. I do have

social anxiety, and I've been successfully managing it for 5 years doing exercise, yoga, meditation; it's why I do

those things. My social anxiety has come back since my regular routine has been interrupted, and since so many

embarrassing things happened. I wont tell you about every embarrassing moment... there are too many to

recount.

The interesting thing is that now, when the effects I'm noticing are becoming slowly less and less

extreme, the more and more socially anxious and depressed about the whole situation I'm feeling. It's almost like

a combination of the fact that I had to go through so many embarrassing situations, that I've missed classes,

avoided some friends, and also knowing that the pheromones are not a solution that will work for me, in my life. I

have to find something else.

Now that the frequency of embarrassing moments has been reducing, I still feel alot

of anxiety about leaving my apartment because in my head I'm imagining what other bad thing is going to happen

today if I go out? Previously I had the attitude "just go out there and deal with it. Let's see what happens."

Now that so many uncomfortable things have happened, even though now fewer of those things will occur, I feel even

more anxious than when I started. So, thats a whole other thing I have to deal with now, too.

On the bright

side, at least we still have free speech! Sorry love scent. I'm not intentionally trying to create a negative

perception.

How long does it take for androstenone to deteriorate on its own without the help of bacteria?

Doesn't anyone have scientific pheromone detection equipment? Hasn't anyone ever done the experimentation?

[Sublime]

Well guess what guys. Using an

ozonator doesnt seem to have any effect in removing pheromones. Plus, now I have a little lung damage due to ozone

exposure. Don't use ozone unless you want to hurt your lungs.

Since the ozone didnt work, I'm now going

through my closet and tossing out clothing, and going to the store and buying replacements. I'm also gonna buy new

bath towels, because I think I got pheros on those too and when I towel off after a shower I might be toweling them

right back on.

The financial, physical, and emotional damage is beginning to add up. If I were love scent, I'd

be aware that there are people out there, like me, who accidentally misuse the product and end up causing personal

harm. No warnings, and no working solutions have yet been offered. Companies have been sued for much less. I

realize a lawsuit could potentially put love scent out of business. I wouldnt want to put someone out of business.

However, that may be preferable to having to have another person go through what I've just been through.

I'm an

extremely tenacious person when it comes to getting problems solved. Trying to dismiss someone by telling them its

not happening, they're imagining things, etc. is not going to work with me. When you sell a volatile product

you're gonna end up with volatile customers, you'd better be prepared to properly deal with it.

[Iaskalotof?'s]

Read smooth's post

again.

[oscar]

Sublime,

Why not try some

less drastic solutions first?

An open box of baking soda is great for absorbing odors in a refrigerator. Why

not try opening a couple of boxes inside your closet? Remember that they're in there so you don't spill the stuff

all over your clothes. Replace the boxes after a few days and keep the door closed.

There are also products

sold to absorb odors in musty basements that might help. These are usually little plastic tubs full of aroma

absorbing gel. They're a bit more expensive than baking soda, but they're very effective. They tend to impart a

fragrance of their own though, so make sure that you're not adverse to their scent before using them.

Oscar

:)

[Sublime]

Baking Soda....

I googled

baking soda and pheromones. It looks like some people have been having success using this. One guy says he cleaned

out his atomizer using baking soda, vinegar, antibacterial soap... and the smell was gone for good.

I went out

today to buy new towels, wearing a totally brand new set of clothes. Things were tremendously better today, but I

still noticed some peoples faces flushing and the old lady at the checkout kept mixing up the sale price of the item

I was buying. At least today I wasn't smelling all the offensive smells of all the people around me!

I'm going

to try the baking soda right away! Thank you so much Oscar. When I finally get this situation handled, I'm gonna

write up a big long post called "how to remove pheromones." and tell about what I found works and what doesnt, and

hopefully it can become a sticky that others can contribute to.

[starvulture]

Hey sublime, check my post

here:
http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/s

howthread.php?p=205099#post205099 (http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?p=205099#post205099)
I am having similar issues to you.
I've always had anxiety and first

exposure to pheromones and my heart is beating very quickly, and won't slow down, its all in the other thread

(perhaps I should have posted it here).

By the way, I do not want to get involved in politics, just want to

talk about this fairly rare problem.

So I want to know, what have you done to cope with the emotional stuff

(though my mood is pretty good it is just my heart that is beating). And also, how long have the effects lasted for

you?

A few thoughts - it is possible that the pheromones are out of your system, but they have temporarily

altered your hormones so much that you are producing different chemicals making people act strange. Lots of

deodorant may help - particularly something like Michum which actually stops sweat rather than masks it. This idea

may be scientifically wrong though, but wouldn't hurt.

Second, it is possible that the pheromones have

jarred your nervous system a lot. In which case you may be acting different which affects others.

Well I

don't know what else to ask except how have you coped with it, any good tips?

I will give you mine, and a

lot of it comes from the fact that this has happened before to me with other chemicals - I have bad reactions to

certian synthetic vitamins.

1. Keep your routine locked in place as much as possible, especially food and

sleep. It is hard for me to sleep now, but when I can sleep, it is essential to maintining emotional control when

something is thrown off, and also eating on time.

2. Mentally accept that things are going to be pretty weird

for a couple weeks, don't try to resist it or prevent it, just kind of accept it. This helps prevent all sorts of

problems. Well good luck hopefully it wears off quickly.

[idesign]

Well guess

what guys. Using an ozonator doesnt seem to have any effect in removing pheromones. Plus, now I have a little lung

damage due to ozone exposure. Don't use ozone unless you want to hurt your lungs.


How could you

possibly know any of that?

I really hope you solve your problem sublime, but you're either hyper-sensitive to

everything or hyper-reactive to what you imagine is something going wrong, aka hypochondriac.

[Sublime]

Found the solution.

Drink

chlorophyll to detox the body.

Wash your clothes in Nature's Miracle enzyme pet stain cleaner.

More details

to come later...