The US is 42nd

[Mtnjim]

WASHINGTON -

Americans are living longer than ever, but not as long as people in 41 other countries.
For decades, the United

States has been slipping in international rankings of life expectancy, as other countries improve health care,

nutrition and lifestyles.
Countries that surpass the United States include Japan and most of Europe, as

well as Jordan, Guam and the Cayman Islands


Seems that the countries with that horrible evil

"socialized medicine" are doing better than we are.

Whole article

here (http://www.contracostatimes.com/health/ci_6605493)!:hammer:

[belgareth]

Or perhaps it is the result of

our lack of exercize and poor diets? Sounds to me like there is no single contributing factor. However, I am still

not willing to trust my health (care) to a government that seems unable to get anything right or at a reasonable

price. You might ask yourself why so many Canadians that can afford it come to the US for healthcare and pay cash

for it despite their high taxes for healthcare. I do agree something needs to be done but I do not believe

socializing medicine is going to fix the problems. Perhaps some form of hybrid system would be the answer.

I

think just handling the prescription cost problem would make a difference in over all health. Those who can are more

and more buying medicine overseas because they can't afford or are unwilling to pay the prices in the US. Many who

can't buy overseas are simply doing without because it is a choice between food and medicine. That's a terrible

situation.

[koolking1]

a country like

Thailand, you'll pay about .25 cents on the dollar for the same prescriptions, we pay more allegedly so that

research costs can be met. Personally, I think the people that live in the country doing the brunt of the research

should pay less but that would leave a lot of poor people outside of the developed world without. A no-win

situation.

[koolking1]

middle-men making

decisions and taking up space and money. I had to have an MRI several years ago (to determine if I had a brain

tumor or not). My health insurance wouldn't pay for it and I have great coverage ordinarily. My Dr said it was

necessary and some functionary who has no medical knowledge at all said "no".

And, you'll hear the likes

of Bush saying "we need those illegals from Mexico to pick them there tomatoes and butcher them there chickens or

you'd be paying more for them there products". Sure, that's true, but what about the schooling for those

illegal's kids and medical care for free (we taxpayers pay for that, I'd rather spend a bit more for chicken and

produce myself so all USAers could have affordable health insurance).

[belgareth]

There is no doubt the system is

screwed up badly. A friend of mine had to have some scan done and in haggling over an incorrect bill he discovered

that where he would have been required to pay about $3200 had he paid cash, on a procedure that lists at $4000, his

insurance company only had to pay about $1200 for the same procedure. Something wrong there.

I agree completely

with you about the illegals, we don't need illegal invaders to pick our crops or slaughter chickens. Nor do we need

to educate a bunch of illegal invaders. However, this problem with illegals isn't a new thing or a recent

innovation by Bush. Every administration has sat on their hands and allowed it to go on. It is a coincidence that

this one got stuck with it. The democratic congress is just as much to blame as Bush is. They are doing nothing to

help and protect their constituents.

I'll still pay for my private healthcare willingly, until somebody

discovers how to make our government both responsible and accountable. It's easy to talk about the partial

successes of socialized healthcare but consider the disasters too.

[Mtnjim]

You can tell the government is

really screwed up when you look at the "prescription benefit plan" that Congress passed one night around midnight,

because they didn't want anyone but the big pharma lobbyists (who reportedly broke out in applause from the

gallery)paying attention. One of the provisions of the bill stated that the government couldn't bargain for lower

costs. Meanwhile the VA has a similar plan, except they are allowed to bargain. The result?

Old people pay $1480

a year for Zolcor (I paid attention to this one because my doc has me on it) and those lucky enough to be in the VA

plan, $124 a year. Quite a difference for the same drug, the people screwed again.:hammer::frustrate

[idesign]

In addition to all the above, a

little tort reform would go a long way. Not to be confused with tart reform, which we DON'T want to happen. :)

[belgareth]

I think the first step to

clearing up the mess would be strict term limits and a complete overhaul of campaign spending. Career politicians

who think they are above the law and who have never had to earn a living are a major source of endless troubles. The

fact that they can be and are bought with conributions just makes them worse. The solution is to outlaw

contributions completely. Give every valid candidate the exact same budget to work with, no contributions of any

sort from any source, and put them in jail for violating the rules. A nice level playing field!

Tort reform,

along with a thousand other needed changes would be far faster in coming, pimarily because the changes would come.

Under the current mess we call government, change is not going to happen. Both sides of the aisle have too much too

gain with the status quo.

[idesign]

You're right of course. Those

who have a vested interest in the status quo will never vote themselves out of power. Campaign finance reform

itself was such a failure as to produce organizations specifically designed to end-run the law, legally (the 529s).

Who didn't see THAT coming?

Another huge mess is the gargantuan federal bureaucracy, and the usurious bilking of

the citizens to feed it. Barring a direct hit by an asteroid nothing can stop its inertia, ever spending, ever

regulating, and dreaming up more justifications for its existence.

Its hard to think about what our gov't has

become because you have to suspend reason for too long a period to even begin to understand what the devil these

fatheads are thinking as they produce the current week's moronic droppings.

I used to like watching the Sunday

news shows to catch up, but not anymore. You listen to what the politicians and analysts are saying and it doesn't

take long before you realize its meaningless to the point of being insulting.

Spit. Growl. Sigh....
I need to

go over to the Humor thread before I kick the cat.

[belgareth]

It always amazes me to watch

and listen as people blithely justify the ever increasing burden on the country as helping our country in some

manner. They seem to miss the point that it cannot continue, that somewhere we have to hit a wall where we can no

longer support the paracitic government. Between all the various functions and organizations within the government

it currently consumes more that half our GNP and every time we turn around there is another method of 'Increasing

government revenues'. Don't people realize that means more taxes for the same for fewer services? Whatever

happened to economies of scale? As the number of people being served increases, the cost per individual should

decrease. It hasn't, instead we get far fewer services for a far bigger bite out of our earnings than ever

before.

"Universal or Socialized or whatever you choose to call it" medicine is just another excuse.

Historically, our government has never been able to do anything less expensively or as well as private industry. So,

people want to turn over healthcare to our government? It sounds nice to provide healthcare to all but what will we

really get? Not better care for cheaper, that's beyond a doubt. What we will see are our fine leaders lining their

pockets some more, at the people's expense, while the qaulity of healthcare gets even worse. And...For that fine

service, our cost for healthcare WILL increase! Anybody that wishes can argue that nationalized healthcare will

provide better healthcare to the poor. They might even believe it. But, history says otherwise. The poor will not be

better off for it, they'll be worse off.

You probably, as a small business owner, realize this already. The

small businesses are the economy. It isn't these huge corporate giants, it's us small business people who employ

the majority of the workers in this country and make the economy work. Were some of the burden be removed from our

backs in the form of lower taxes, most small business owners would use that money to expand which would, in turn,

increase employment across the board. Every dime taken by the government, no matter who they claim to be taxing,

comes out of the economy that provides the bread and butter to every person in this country. Every time the taxes

increase, the worst hit by it, no matter who you claim to be taxing, are the poorest in the form of less employment

and higher prices for services. And every dollar of taxes that actually reach the needy is equal to two dollars

taken out of the economy causes prices to go up.

[idesign]

OK, read some jokes and the

cat's safe. Now,

The worst boondoggle of them all is social security, whoops, second only to the income tax.

And payroll withholding is the fleece to beat all fleeces. I believe every wage-earner should bring home their

entire gross earnings, and then have to write a tax check every quarter like you and I do (and every business does).

We'd have a tax revolt by the end of the year once people see the real bite.

It really got my goat when the

latest round of SS reform failed, and congress denied us the right to MANAGE OUR OWN MONEY! Even some conservatives

are falling into the "gov't knows best how to run your life" mentality. More precisely they are losing the

traditional "less taxes, smaller gov't" ideal, which historical conservatism espoused. Ahhhh, I guess it doesn't

make a difference anymore, principle has be overcome by self-interest at wholesale prices.

Socialized medicine

would bring health care down to the very same lowest-common-denominator state, as you said. Pay a lot, get little,

if anything, in return. Indeed, those in Canada, and elsewhere, are opting out whenever they can afford to do so.

In addition to poor general care, who would want a gov't steeped in stupidity making decisions on what treatments

they need?

It would be like this: picture going into a DMV to get approval for your bypass surgery. Take a

number and wait a half-day to find that you have to come back next Thursday because you didn't properly fill out

form 4023-B(c)4, and Thursday is the only day heart cases are filed, and if everything goes well after that you'll

have a decision within 30 days.

Ranting is so therapeutic, but only in moderation. Time for more jokes, or maybe

a mone success story or two...

[belgareth]

For myself, spent some time

with the family and listened to my granddaughter for a few minutes. Much more fun than ranting.

One of the

biggest jokes is social security. There would be far less a problem there, though still a problem, if congress

didn't keep raiding it to balance the budget. It all goes right back to getting those worthless bums out of

office.

I think the real kicker would be a statement at the end of a year showing the total of all the various

taxes paid over the past 12 months. Most people would be astounded. The capitol would burn before the end of

January.

[belgareth]

I read this article about

Japanese healthcare this morning and wanted to share it:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_re_as/japan_miscarriage;_ylt=AgEhSeIj_zs2rd_zmS.pOr7VJRI F



The article and a previous comment including Japan as providing universal healthcare inspired me to look a little

deeper. While I agree that it isn't the last word on the subject and that there are most likely differing opinions,

I found this next article to be an interesting study of healthcare issues in Japan:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/331/7518/648