Religiously Seeking Conversion

[oscar]

Trial #1.

After showering Wednesday evening, I applied four 4\" swipes of SOE to each armpit with no deodorant. As I was going out I also put some SOE on wrists, neck, and backs of hands.

Worked up a good sweat at a local karaoke joint singing the Beatle\'s version of \"Twist and Shout\", a relatively short, but especially draining song. My face was dripping, so I figure my pits got moist at least. Many great looks and conversations with young women, particularly in the twenty to thirty year old range. One TEXTBOOK DIHL!

There was no noticeable smell of anything except the SOE that night or the next morning when I checked the pits of my tee shirt before replacing it with a fresh one. It was very warm in bed on Wednesday night, and I sweated up the tee shirt pretty heavily.

Thursday evening about 24 hours after applying the SOE, there still was no objectionable smell in the pits or on the second shirt.

Ordinarily, on occassions when I\'ve somehow forgotten to apply deodorant (or bathe), 24 hours later would be about the time that I would be rudely reminded. Maybe the SOE was acting as a deodorant.

It should be noted that I HAD used a deodorant soap when showering, but this has never gotten me very far beyond the 24 hour point in the past, so I figured I could discount this error for now.

It\'s now 48 hours since showering and there\'s just the SLIGHTEST hint of a BO smell in my pits. Strangely, one smells a little riper than the other, but this could be the result of uneven application or work or sleep habits.

So is this SOE that has converted to Androstenone, or just BO?
I don\'t know.

The only conclusions that I can draw at this point are that, a: SOE will suffice as a deodorant in a pinch, and b: IF there IS any conversion of SOE\'s pheros to A-None when it is used in the pits, it is either very slow to take place, or it occurs on a level that doesn\'t cause a noticeable BO effect for nearly 48 hours.
It\'s possible that the pheros in SOE may well BE converting to A-None very early in the experiment, but that they may be doing so on a sub-olfactory level. And THAT IS what we\'re trying for, isn\'t it? It\'s just impossible to prove when the only equipment available is a nose.

I\'m planning to wear the same tee shirt that I put on Thursday morning (no, I haven\'t changed it in @36 hours) until Saturday evening just to see what develops. images/icons/shocked.gif

Since I\'ll probably be going out Saturday night, I\'ll shower thoroughly using a non-deodorant soap this time, and apply SOE generously on ONE armpit to see if what is developing over time is conversion of SOE to A-None or simply BO. Don\'t know if I\'ll be able to stretch it out 72 hours again, but if something is noticeable I\'ll then repeat the experiment applying the SOE to the OTHER pit to try to negate the effects of the sleep and work habits mentioned earlier.
Then I\'ll put SOE in one pit and a heavy application of a long lasting deodorant in the other. Then switch pits again. This could take weeks!

Note: I really DON\'T smell bad, I\'ve got to get my nose right into my pit to detect anything. And it doesn\'t smell half as bad as a drop of TE.
The SOE may actually be MORE effective than my regular deodorant. images/icons/laugh.gif
It was definitely AS effective for AT LEAST 36 hours!

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[Bruce]

First of all, when scanning down the list of posts, and seeing \"Religiously Seeking Conversion\" posted by Wild Oscar, you reallygotta have a look, don\'t you? images/icons/smile.gif

I am really stumped though, on the results. I thought I had developed my own aNONE production science product, by putting SOE on my pits. Folks, try this SOE on the pits and see what you come up with.

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Looks like a mission for our gym rats!

[jvkohl]

Great experiment and reporting Wilde Oscar, thanks. Just in case there is a lot of NONE brewing, you might want to ask a friendly female if the odor is building up to an unfriendly level.

Now, something I\'ve noticed. Despite the gory details of increased skin cancer risk, I tend to hit the tanning beds--especially after turning the whitest shade of pale in winter. If I lay in the bed with my arms over my head, the B.O. builds very rapidly in my armpits. Makes me wonder if something about the U.V. light is activating bacterial populations that contribute mostly to NONE production. But, as I\'ve said, I can\'t smell NONE--at least I don\'t think I can. So, perhaps there\'s something else going on. If any of you use the tanning beds, check and see if you get a similar effect.

Wild speculation suggests that, if UV light enhances pheromone production, then our evolutionary ancestors who were first out of the caves might have had a pheromonal advantage over cave dwellers. If I didn\'t despise evolutionary theory, I\'d take this ball and run with it in some sort of experiment. For now, I want to hear others experiences.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I always stink after tanning!

[oscar]

James,

If I could find a female already \"friendly\" enough to stick her nose in my armpit to check for the A-None scent, there would be so many OTHER things that I would be likely to put on her \"to do\" list that I\'m afraid that pit-sniffing just wouldn\'t take priority. images/icons/crazy.gif

I remember in grade school there were UV lights mounted on the wall to supposedly KILL bacteria. The fixtures were baffles of reflective plates that prevented the bulb from being seen directly, but a glow of purple could be seen coming from them when the other classroom lights were turned off.

I would suggest that what you are smelling as a result of visiting the tanning beds is not the result of activated bacterial production, but rather the product of the rapid decay of dead bacteria and their waste products, accelerated by the extremely unnatural conditions to which you are being exposed.

I\'m not saying that this isn\'t related to the production of A-None. Could be the most concentrated endogenous A-None there is. Who knows?

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[Whitehall]

Oscar,

I\'ve got to hand it to you - talk is cheap but your active experimentation is very impressive.

Our sole purpose in going to the tanning beds is to cause photochemical changes in our skin!

The UV has penetrative properties into the skin, that\'s why we tan deep in the skin base. UV-A and UV-B differ in depth of penetration as well as effectiveness and strength of reactions. Between the skin base and the surface, a lot must be going on under the lights.

So how do we test the suppostion that tanning causes aNONE conversion? Maybe start with clean skin, add SoE to one side and nothing to the other, broil and sniff. Note that we made not be perfectly symmetrical!

Another cheap test might be to use two clean Fourex condoms, treat one with SoE and expose both to a tanning bed. That would delete bacteria as a cause assuming that the lamb tissue of the condom had active emzymes. This isa assuming these things are reasonably sterile.

I don\'t have a tanning bed but I do have a UV light source I use for plainum printing. I think it is a bit harder spectrum than tanning beds but not by much. Help me refine our test plan and I\'ll run it at home then report the results here.

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Whitehall ]

[oscar]

Whitehall,

My exposure to the use of UV lights is limited to the instance I mentioned above, studying multiplication tables and the like under the tutelage of Sister Mary Milk of Magnesia of The Little Sisters of the Holy Mackerel Order (if memory serves), and some years later, studying the effects of psyco-active drugs under the supervision of a Day-Glo Jimi Hendrix, who, to the best of my recollection, kept asking me repeatedly, \"Are You Experienced?\".

Do all artificial UV light sources emit both UV-A and UV-B rays? If so, can one be filtered in favor of the other? What does each do?
If they are separate, which types of rays were in use in the three situations mentioned here, classroom, tanning bed, and \"rec\" room?
What about your light? Is it comparable in intensity to those in tanning devices?

At first it appeared to me that this was a bit of a diversion from the original intent of the thread. But now I\'m all for accelerating the effects needed to attain A-None conversion. Hobbies do tend to become somewhat less enjoyable when they begin to take on the characteristics of a full-time job. images/icons/wink.gif

A note of caution in advance: Keep the door to your experimentation area securely locked. You\'d have some tricky explaining to do if someone were to walk in and see you sniffing what appear to be used condoms! images/icons/wink.gif

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[jvkohl]

Hey Wilde Oscar, I wasn\'t suggesting you have anyone smell your pits, just taking a sniff nearby--neck or whatever would allow them to judge any degree of rankness.

UV light to kill bacteria is a new one on me, and I\'ve acquired some knowledge of microbiology in my laboratory career. Will try to remember to check this out.

James

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If I recall correctly, when I was in middle school, we would sometimes do labs with minorly-harsh chemicals. Of course, this required us all to wear goggles. At the end of the day, the teacher then collected our goggles and placed them into this medicine cabinet looking thing, which had UV lights, as well as a timer on the side, and I vaguely recall that the reason for this was to kill bacteria (or whatever else.. maybe head lice??).

[Whitehall]

Radiation is my field. Remember my cautions about shipping pheromones through the mail since there was talk of sterilizing packages with radiation. I argued that the radiation was likely to cause a degradation of the product.

Light is made of photons with a continuous spread of energies. Visible light has maybe 3 electron volts (eV) of energy per photo - it can\'t break chemical bonds. What used to be called \"actinic\" light was violet and ultraviolet-A with maybe 4 to 5 eV. UV-B is more energitic still and trends up to x-rays, typically 100,000 eV or 100keV and so on up to gamma rays into the millions of eV.

Blacklights are filtered so only the weakest UV (still invisible) are allowed through. tanning beds have harder spectra with more UV. To do sterilization you want unfiltered, hard as practical, UV. Florescent tubes use mercury light emmissions as a starting point then weaken the spectra for various applications. UV-A will tan you as will UV-B but the latter is more penetrative and will burn you down into the lower layers of your skin where new, living cells are growing, doing more damage.

BTW - Getting a dose of nuclear gamma rays is like getting a bad sunburn all the way through your body.

Back to our topic:

Any actinic light will cause the chemical reactions we\'re looking for. UV-A on a tanning bed is very convenient for that. My light source is a bit harder but not too much so will serve as a stand-in. We should use one condom with SoE without light as a control, one without SoE and UV, and one with SoE and UV-A.

If all 3 show conversion, then tissue has enzymes, if only UV - then its the light. If none, back to the drawing board.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

UV sterilization is pretty commonplace. Many bottled water companies use this as part of their process, though they are exploiting a secondary of effect of UV -- conversion of oxygen to ozone, which then oxidizes contaminants and kills bacteria while doing so.

I suspect the stink from the tanning beds is due to the greatly increased rate of oxidation of sweat and skin, rather than an increase in pheromone conversion.

[a.k.a.]

Don’t know about conversion, but I can verify that SOE doesn’t stink up your T-shirts.

I always test the stink potential of new brews by smearing some on my chest, sleeping in a clean T-shirt and checking the results in the morning.
With SOE, I swiped two big X’s on my chest before bedtime. When I woke up my T-shirt smelled better than if I’d used no pheros at all.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree with Scientist. It has long been known in lipid oxidation that photo sensitized O2 wil react with an unsaturation about 1,000 times faster than normal O2. Also keep in mind that the singlet O2 (photosens...) will react with cmpds that are normally not very reactive. The last thing is high energy light (anything higher than vis) really can mess up electron shells.

OK, enough with the chem, what does any of that mean? Easy, the breakdown products smell. Oxidized lipids (or rancid fat) have some pretty (oh, bad pun) bad smells.

[oscar]

OK,

Whitehall,

So try using your light at a distance that will as nearly as possible approximate 98.6 degrees fahrenheit at test level, and check for stink at regular intervals. I might also vary the test media to include a microscope slide, a ceramic tile, and perhaps a pork shoulder, skin side up.

Regulating humidity and air-flow are another matter though. The roast should take care of itself, but the other stuff will need to have moisture added to mimic pit conditions.

But then there\'s no bacteria at work with the condom, slide and tile either. Hhhmmmmm?

Just a note: The school setting in which the UV light/Bacteria killing system was employed was the very place where we were told to get under our desks in the event of nuclear attack. images/icons/crazy.gif
It was all quite comforting. We felt safe.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[oscar]

Trial #2.

Very soon after logging the last trial, a situation arose that necessitated my showering, thus eliminating the possibility of going 72 hours on that application. Sorry, I won\'t risk sacrificing an opportunity for sex in the pursuit of science.

Showered THOROUGHLY using a non-deodorant soap, then applied the same four @3-4\" swipes per pit, but spread it out evenly over the pit area this time using fingertips. Didn\'t feel ready to try the \"one pit on/one pit not\" method quite yet. Also applied the usual amount to wrists/hands and neck.

Went to Blues club with SO. Besides a few interesting smiles and glances, got a passing two-handed pat on the shoulders from behind from a girl I don\'t know as she was headed for the dance floor while I was seated en route.

By strange coincidence, and I swear I didn\'t know, the \"textbook DIHL\" girl from last Wednesday was the bartender at this place. Small world! She was quite friendly and re-introduced herself as I had somehow (perhaps intentionally for the benefit of SO) forgotten her name. Big smiles and a \"Hope to see you again!\" from her.

That was Friday night, and it went quite late,(bigger smile than we have gremlins for should appear here), and after working Saturday on @ 2 hours of sleep, I took a nap Saturday night starting at 7 p.m. that went clean through to Sunday morning. I had set an alarm for 11 p.m.(my usual time of departure for partying), but changed my mind about going out in favor of being conscious at a Super Bowl gathering scheduled for Sunday evening.

Prior to leaving for Super Bowl party, I applied a light spritz of Issey/NPA (5:1) and a shot of straight Issey, mostly for scent-confidence purposes.
Mostly couples at SB gig. One single YOUNG female who just loved me. Also one extremely attractive married woman (with SO in attendance) whom I\'d met some time before, (this time I pretended that I remembered), who I think would have given me her digits, had I asked. Overall, VERY favorable results 48 hours after last shower and SOE pit application.

Monday morning at work using Molly Shannon method of pressing fingers in pits and sniffing, detected a BO aroma at 60 hour point. Again noticed a considerable difference in intensity from one pit to the other. I might even theorize that different components provided by dietary intake are processed in designated pits. One seemed to favor the ribs, while the other had just a hint of stromboli.

I\'m at 84 hours now, and still don\'t really smell bad. There\'s no distinguishable scent of A-None in either pit as far as I can tell.
But then I\'ve always maintained that you need not be able to smell the mones for them to be working, so consequently, you probably don\'t need to be able to smell them for them to BE THERE.

Maybe I\'m just not a good candidate for the pit-trick. Maybe I\'ll try adding some SOE by rolling some onto fingers and apply AFTER applying deodorant. I still won\'t be likely to detect anything happening, but that won\'t preclude the possibility that it MAY be converting to A-None at sub-olfactory levels.

Looks like I won\'t be giving up my NPA mixes any time soon, but SOE has also become a staple that I don\'t want to be without either.

I\'d be very interested to see if anyone else has any success along these lines.

Oscar images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

SOunds like a good trial oscar keep us updated on how it goes for you.

Id be interested to see how SOE goes with NPA alas i shall await for a few more weeks anyway.