Need some info on NLP, O G's please help

[tman6919]

this might be in the wrong section but wtf, I found out the hard way when i started messing around

with mones a long time ago that having mones without skill is like having bullets without a gun. I read david

deangelos “double your dating” and it just opened my eyes to a world I was missing out on. Since then I have

bought and downloaded a bunch of his stuff and it has been worth its weight in gold for me.

Anyway ive been

reading the forums and articles on the web about NLP and I think Its an interesting enough topic to study a little

bit. What are you guys opinions on NLP? I would really like to hear form people who read/studied/used this stuff

and their experiences, im a complete noob when it comes to this so anything helps

I know in every

discipline there are some fakers so can you guys please suggest any autors/books or videos? Is it even worth my

time?

Thanks peps, I appreciate all the help:rasp:

[WorkingMann]

this might

be in the wrong section but wtf, I found out the hard way when i started messing around with mones a long time ago

that having mones without skill is like having bullets without a gun. I read david deangelos “double your

dating” and it just opened my eyes to a world I was missing out on. Since then I have bought and downloaded a

bunch of his stuff and it has been worth its weight in gold for me.

Anyway ive been reading the forums and

articles on the web about NLP and I think Its an interesting enough topic to study a little bit. What are you guys

opinions on NLP? I would really like to hear form people who read/studied/used this stuff and their experiences,

im a complete noob when it comes to this so anything helps

I know in every discipline there are some fakers

so can you guys please suggest any autors/books or videos? Is it even worth my time?

Thanks peps, I

appreciate all the help:rasp:

I previusly read in here that NLP should be really hard to get the stuff

and GET IT (Like david says) plus it's all bullshit you can't really use.. It's more for succes in business

life.. You can get a psykological advance that can help you when you're working on a deal etc..

[Marlboro_man]

I had looked into it a

while ago and felt it was very complicated. I also felt it was very manipulative, your pretty much hypnotizing

someone to do what you want and that's not right in my personal opinion. David D teaches you to change who you are

not to trick others like NLP does, but then again it's my opinion and to each their own. It may sound hypocritical

but I use word tracks in my job with sales to overcome objections but that is learned with expierience and not

tricking people rather in consider it just overcoming objections just as any good salesperson does.

[WorkingMann]

I had

looked into it a while ago and felt it was very complicated. I also felt it was very manipulative, your pretty much

hypnotizing someone to do what you want and that's not right in my personal opinion. David D teaches you to change

who you are not to trick others like NLP does, but then again it's my opinion and to each their own. It may sound

hypocritical but I use word tracks in my job with sales to overcome objections but that is learned with expierience

and not tricking people rather in consider it just overcoming objections just as any good salesperson

does.
You mean the NLP is like hypnotizing.?
I don't really wanna use it but this kind of stuff have

always been interesting to me.. Just to see how you can make an impression on people and how little it takes.. It

fasinates me to see these kind of things but as you also say I don't think you should use it that way..

But

still would like to know some more about it if you would help me Marlboro?

[Marlboro_man]

You mean

the NLP is like hypnotizing.?
I don't really wanna use it but this kind of stuff have always been interesting to

me.. Just to see how you can make an impression on people and how little it takes.. It fasinates me to see these

kind of things but as you also say I don't think you should use it that way..

But still would like to know some

more about it if you would help me Marlboro?

To me it's kind of like hypnotizing but really it's more

along the line of power of suggestion and placing subliminal thoughts in someone's head. Think about a buddy of

yours telling you about the time he was covered in bugs and how he could feel their tiny little feet just walking up

him step after step like little needles slightly poking his skin and how when they reached his hair he couldn't

stop scratching his scalp and felt itchy for days like he some unknown rash or something.
Ok I know that was

weird but if someone said that to you with the right emotions in person chances are you would be scratching (if you

weren't just from reading it) Thats kind of an example of what NLP is but I am no expert in it by any means and

have spent very very little time learning it, rather a have spent alot of time learning about it to realize that I

didn't want the power that comes with it.

[WorkingMann]

Okay how have you learned

about hypnosis?
A year ago I searched and searched for information but verywhere it costs a lot of money..
I

don't like using it but I just like the feeling when realy studying it, understanding it and seeing all your work

really doing something that I normally wouldn't be able to do..
I don't really wanna manipulate people just wanna

see it work..
Kinda hard to explain and probably a bit strange but it's like a little powertrip to see people

scratch their head after such a story.. Because then I KNOW I CAN, but I woun't.. But just to know I had the

possibilty and the power IF I WANTED.. That's SO NICE..

[WorkingMann]

But you got any links or

other information you would be willing to share with me perhaps?
I've found a little on NLP but en regards of

hypnosis I really can't find any usefull free stuff.. :sad:

[Marlboro_man]

But you

got any links or other information you would be willing to share with me perhaps?
I've found a little on NLP but

en regards of hypnosis I really can't find any usefull free stuff.. :sad:

No must of the stuff that I

had researched was in regards to NLP and not hypnosis. I don't know much about hypnosis but hell it's easy to

make some scratch their head or at least put their hand on their head without saying a thing. Just slowly mimick

someone's body language and as time goes on take the lead and believe it or not if you have done it right and start

scratching your head chances are they will at least put their own hand on their head.

[WorkingMann]

No must

of the stuff that I had researched was in regards to NLP and not hypnosis. I don't know much about hypnosis but

hell it's easy to make some scratch their head or at least put their hand on their head without saying a thing.

Just slowly mimick someone's body language and as time goes on take the lead and believe it or not if you have done

it right and start scratching your head chances are they will at least put their own hand on their

head.
Sounds interssting.. But there gotta be more to it than that.. Aint there? :blink:
Just seems wierd

if "just" to mimic their body language will do all the work.. Ain't there more methods or anything?
You got any

links or any info on NLP then perhaps?

[Marlboro_man]

Sounds

interssting.. But there gotta be more to it than that.. Aint there? :blink:
Just seems wierd if "just" to mimic

their body language will do all the work.. Ain't there more methods or anything?
You got any links or any info on

NLP then perhaps?
It may sound weird and I am short cutting all the details but basically when you mimic

someone's movement's they become more comfortable with you and as time goes on if you do everything right you can

take the lead and they will start to mimick you. If you haven't studied body language you are missing sooooo much

in life. I remember some really great posts on hear and there was an old forum member, I believe his names was

friendly1 or something like that, who knew a lot and suggested some really good books to read. I will try to find

the post and put a link in here for you.

In reagards to NLP, I looked into that several years ago and haven't

since then so unfortunately I don't have any worthwhile links. Most quality information that I have found from the

net comes from reading forums and then following the links that they suggest.

[Marlboro_man]

Here's the link I promised

ya! Some really good stuff as I recall.

http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12330

[Redeye]

Something else you can use

alongside mirroring someone's body language is assessing how they communicate. Are they a sensory, auditory or

kinesthetic communicator?

Best way to describe that is are they a 'seeing' person, 'hearing' person or

'feeling' person. Are they likely to say 'i see what you mean,' 'i hear you' or 'i feel that'?

Then

adapt your communication style to match. Like MM said, it's nothing to do with hypnosis, just advanced

communcation techniques. People LIKE people who are like themselves. The more someone feels like you are on their

wavelength, the more they will open up to you. Pick up on words they use and relay them back later on in the

conversation. It's all about being a chameleon. I communicate differently with virtually everyone I meet. Sounds

like hard work, but it's just second nature after a while. It's not about changing who you are, before anyone

starts thinking that, it's just about making yourself approachable to as broad a spectrum as possible.

I come

from a psychology background and am also in sales, so I tend to use these things more for my job than anything else.

Where friends/potential love interests are concerned I consciously surround myself with people who are similar to

me anyway, so a lot of this stuff happens naturally.

With regards to hypnosis, I wouldn't recommend bothering

with it. Having hypnotised people in the past (and by that I mean put someone into a state of deep relaxation, so

that they are susceptible to suggestion, rather than entirely controlling them) I know that not everyone is open to

it anyway. It takes years to study hypnosis and be able to do it properly and that's just direct hypnosis! To try

and do it without someone being aware and without their consent would be nigh on impossible for a layman with a

passing interest imo. It's also unethical. The stuff I have done has been at the request of friends and has

focused on things like confidence building, anxiety reduction etc, which I do with myself anyway.

[belgareth]

Tayloring your explanations to

the person is something I've been teaching the technicians that work for me for twenty some years because it works

so well. If you can get a handle on the person's basic mental processes, as Redeye says, you can communicate more

effectively.

I start out having them determine the type work a person does. Are they left brained or right

brained, is the person artistic in temperament or are they mechanically inclined? Then taylor any conversations to

that while using parallels to describe the functioning of the computer, software, networks and so on to them.



Its fun, you can tell an artistic person, for example a sales person, that it is magic created by gnomes and if

you use the right tone they'll laugh and accept it because they really didn't want to know why the computer

assigns interrupts. An accountant, on the other hand, may well pin you down as to the numbering scheme of the

interrupts. It just depends on the mentality.

The same can be applied to people in a social situation. You can

get the artist talking endlessly with a few comments about the taste, style, form or texture and keep them going on

it for a long time. The mechanical person will go for hours reciting numbers or other facts if you let them get

started or encourage them in the least. In both cases you only need to nudge them here and there with a question to

seem like a really interesting person.

People can be very susceptable to suggetion if you are careful and watch

then. If they have been drinking they are even more susceptable. You don't need hypnosis to plant minor suggestions

or even to use suggestions to seduce.

I discovered clear back in high school that some people could be

encouraged to do the strangest things if you approached it right. It isn't hard to get half a classroom scratching

at an imaginary itch or smelling something in the air that doesn't exist. I do a certain amount of public speaking

now and I can spot the people in the audience that can be manipulated by watching how they respond to my gestures,

tone of voice and level of apparent interest in the topic. They make great markers to tell me what I need to do next

or how I need to change my presentation.

All that can be applied to convincing a person that he or she is horney

and you are the one that they would like to have cure it. It does not mean you can apply it to everybody, but a

percentage of people are more susceptable to the tricks of suggestion than others.

[WorkingMann]

It's all good but.. I

really don't know how to start anything about it..
No offence to anybody but it's like you tell in general what

it's abiut.. But not really any techniques or anything I could start doing to be better at this.. What to look for,

or how to learn more perhaps..
But I still know you all are trying to help so thanks but I would like something

concrete if you know anything concrete that could help me :)

[Redeye]

I was thinking that a lot of that

was pretty concrete from MM, Belgareth and me!

Mirroring: When you're with someone you want to bond with, mimic

their gestures. Don't do it straight away. For example, they go to take a drink, you take a drink about 10

seconds later. They cross their legs, you cross yours ten seconds later etc etc...
Then when you've been doing it

for a while, you do something (like take a drink), if they take one at the same sort of time, you are in sync. If

not, mirror some more.
That's a very basic explanation.

Sensory, auditory, kinesthetic: Listen to the person

you're with and pick up how they communicate. If you hear them saying 'see' 'saw' 'looked' anything to do

with sensory, then they are a sensory person. Same with the other two things.
Things that appeal to sensory people

are things that look aesthetically pleasing. Auditory people are more interested in sounds and kinesthetic people

more interested in feelings.
To put it into practice for seduction round your house, as an example:

Sensory:

Make sure the room you're in is tidy and pleasing to the eye, you look smart and smell nice
Auditory: Have some

nice music on, speak seductively, don't have a washing machine on in the background (lol)
Kinesthetic: If the

person you're with doesn't 'feel' right in the situation then nothing will happen. Concentrate on creating the

kind of scenario they will relax in. Make sure your clothes are not scratchy and they have somewhere nice and comfy

to sit.

When you're with a woman you're interested in, try to spot signs that they are interested in you. If

they are, look at their mouth a lot more. That always gets me going!

If you want more info, then just google

some of the above.

Belgareth - that is so right about people who are left and right brained. I couldn't care

less about how things work half the time, as long as they work. I want to just jump in and figure things out as I

go along, rather than listen to endless amounts of detail - it bores me to tears.

[belgareth]

Belgareth -

that is so right about people who are left and right brained. I couldn't care less about how things work half the

time, as long as they work. I want to just jump in and figure things out as I go along, rather than listen to

endless amounts of detail - it bores me to tears.
Same here. The challenge is the fun part. I jump in and

do the job but once I have mastery it becomes boring and I am ready to move on to a new challenge.

[WorkingMann]

Well still seems a bit wierd

to me.. Sorry I guess I ain't that smart :frustrate
But.. fx. if I wanna do this in a group where were working

with more people that can "disturb us or take her attention" what then?
If she turns to another groupmember and

starts looking at a laptop.. Shall I come over to her side and look at the laptop also?
And what if the person is

very shy and not so talkative.. You know people that only says yes and no and want you to start the

conversation..?

[belgareth]

You cannot work with every

person. There has to be a willingness to interact with you or you'll get nowhere. If a person turns away or ignores

you, go on to somebody else.

If a person answers with just yes or no you are the problem. You are not asking

open-ended questions.

[WorkingMann]

Okay then..
What I mean

with people that only answer yes and no is the "kind of people" (I don't like to generalize as there's "types" of

people) that doesn't say much no matter what you do..
If you ask a yes/no question they always have the

opportunity to keep the conversation going on further if they want..
And what I meant was that "these types of

people" will have she shortest possible answer in any case.. If you ask them how was your childhood, they can tell

is was good sometimes because bla bla bla, and bad sometimes because bla bla bla etc. so you can talk forever about

it.. We're talking years they can tell about, so they have the opportunity to say more than just "good". Some

people just shut down because they're shy or doesn't like tlaking or whatever but always they have very very short

answers to everything..
When dealing with these "types of people" is it again that I just have to move on or..?

[belgareth]

Try questions like "What do you

think about..." or "What kind of work do you do?" Followed by "Oh? What do you think about ...in your work?" It

helps to read some and have a wide general knowledge of the world so you can ask intelligent questions.

There

are people you are never going to be able to interact with, probably the majority. But there are a lot that you can

get to talk by asking directed questions that cannot be answered with a yes or a no.

[Redeye]

I agree with Belgareth. Some

people just don't talk much. You then need to ask yourself, do you want to be with someone when you will have to

do the majority of the talking?
If not, then move on.

I have to talk constantly in my job, on the phone, in

person, so sometimes I just don't have the inclination to talk much when out of the office. That's why I love

chatty men, who have something interesting to say. Sometimes I don't want them to get me to talk; I just want to

listen to them, so it helps if they are widely read and intelligent.

If someone is shy, they may never open up

in a group situation. Some people are just more comfortable one on one. I'm extremely confident on the outside,

but inside I'm more introverted, so I am more comfortable in smaller groups generally.

You'll get along better

with someone if you are similar in my experience and that includes similar on the scale of

introversion/extroversion. There is the theory that opposites attract, but most studies show that that is not the

case in the longterm. I could not be with someone who was not a good communicator - both with me and socially in a

group, because I want someone that will socialise with me if we're in a partnership.

[WorkingMann]

I don't wanna be with the

person.. Just wanna see that it works.. That I have the power to use it and the knowledge but I will not..

[d3kst3r]

NLP is about using your verbal

and non-verbal forms of communication in order to manipulate another person's thought processes and

emotions.

Example 1:
Politician is making a speech to a crowd of people.
"Are we sick of these high oil

prices?"
"Hell yes!" chants the people.
"Are we sick of this endless war?"
"Hell yeah!"
"What the people need is

a new leader!" (politican points to himself).

What happened there was the politican asked 3 questions. The first

2 questions had obvious answers of "yes" so that the people could not disagree with him. The third question is

what's known as an "embedded command" in other words a question disguised as an order. Since the people agreed on

questions 1 and 2 they are inclined to agree with number 3. Also the politician used body languange when asking the

third question by pointing to himself. This conjures up a patriotic image that will be etched into their minds. Next

time the people vote they will remember the 3rd question as well as the politician pointing to themself signifying

who they should vote for.

Ever watched a Democratic or Republican convention on television where the entire crowd

is heavily hyped up from excitement? Well whenever I watch those I get disgusted by the blatant and numerous amounts

of NLP on display.

[d3kst3r]

Example 2:
You walk into a

SevenEleven to buy a drink.
"Would you like a large cola?" asks the storeclerk.

By asking whether you would like

a "large" cola, 9/10 times you would agree with them and buy the large cola because it's easier to agree than

disagree. This method has been used in selling things for decades and is another example of embedding

commands.

Ever gone into a McDonalds deciding to just buy a regular meal and ended up walking out with a

Supersized meal? Well McDonalds have spent a fortune training their staff to use this embedded form of NLP to

increase their sales.

[WorkingMann]

That made some sence.. I

will have to look more into this stuff..

[Holmes]

Adolph Hitler used NLP very

effectively to "increase his sales."

Seriously.

[WorkingMann]

Adolph Hitler

used NLP very effectively to "increase his sales."

Seriously.

That also makes sence.. He asks

some normal questions when people need hope (because Germany was very low financially and everything was bad) and he

then asked a question like a command (as d3kst3r told about) and they solution in their head was him..

[Marlboro_man]

Bel and Redeye explained

things better than I ever could to you! I agree with what they are saying, if you notice all 3 of us are in sales

and are sucessful at what we do. What does it all mean? Plain and simply that we all understand the art of

communication and we use it to our advantage to sell our product. Don't get me wrong I don't manipulate people

(and feel confident they don't either) however we build rapport and overcome objections which is really the primary

job of a salesman with a new potential client.

[Marlboro_man]

Example

2:
You walk into a SevenEleven to buy a drink.
"Would you like a large cola?" asks the storeclerk.

By asking

whether you would like a "large" cola, 9/10 times you would agree with them and buy the large cola because it's

easier to agree than disagree. This method has been used in selling things for decades and is another example of

embedding commands.

Ever gone into a McDonalds deciding to just buy a regular meal and ended up walking out with

a Supersized meal? Well McDonalds have spent a fortune training their staff to use this embedded form of NLP to

increase their sales.

Wouldn't you agree that these are very basic examples of NLP? From my limited

research this seems like entry level stuff where as NLP is much deeper. Another example along the lines of your

examples would be the either or question. IN other words a good salesperson doesn't ask yes/no questions when

upselling. Ex: Person orders dinner and a good waitress ask would you like a red or white wine with that where as

the other waitress ask if you would like a glass of wine with that. Clearly the first waitress will sell more than

double the wine of the second one.

[belgareth]

Bel and

Redeye explained things better than I ever could to you! I agree with what they are saying, if you notice all 3 of

us are in sales and are sucessful at what we do. What does it all mean? Plain and simply that we all understand the

art of communication and we use it to our advantage to sell our product. Don't get me wrong I don't manipulate

people (and feel confident they don't either) however we build rapport and overcome objections which is really the

primary job of a salesman with a new potential client.

It depends on how you define manipulation.

Selling something is a form of manipulation as is any other seduction. The intent is the point because the methods

vary little. There was something badly wrong with Hitler's manipulation and in my opinion there is something wrong

with the manipulations done by religion and government (I don't see a lot of difference betweeen the two groups as

they are both parasites that are out for power over others.)

So the point is what is your reason for the way you

work with people? Are you trying to help them or are you trying to take advantage of them? Is power your goal or is

mutual benefit? People aren't all that hard to lead if you understand what motivates them. What you do with that

understanding is what defines a mass murderer or a saint.

Sometimes in building rapport you don't want to do

anything more than listen. Other times you have to encourage the person to talk by asking relevent questions. But in

every case they will tell you what their hot points are and how to trigger them. You just need to learn to listen

rather than talk. Don't tell people things, listen to them and ask them questions. Be sincere in your desire to

provide what they want/need and you can win most of the time.

[Marlboro_man]

It depends

on how you define manipulation.
I agree fully now that I read your explanation. I just feel the manipulate

has a negative connotation (sp*) and would never use it as a power technique. "Mutual benefit" I love that

statement and it's a great way to look at it.