Advice for body builders - supplements etc

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For those of us that are interested in working out and building up what would people recommend someone to us to get good results this is what i have.

Creaitine supplements.

Also Tribulus what is this product for etc. Would it be of benefit along with a balanced diet and good intake of water.

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Bump anyone able to give some more information please.

[MAJORSOB]

DD the creatine is good but you also need a great deal of protein to build muscle..there are lots of supplements..some work great and some are a waste of money..heres what i\'m taking right now..Pro source protien powder..Cytoplex meal replacement and Xenadrine RFA-1..as far as the testosterone booster ..I take a HGH supplement PH Complex..and cycle on and off and use Cytodyne AAC..but ive been at this a while..there are other things i use now and again..but choose your weapons well as this is more costly then pheromones..and i can\'t begin to tell you the amount of money spent on supplements that did not work ..start out slow with good nutrition being the key..and good luck!!

[MAJORSOB]

OOPS ..sorry DD overlooked your question about Tribulus..which is Tribulus Terrestris extract which is supposed to increase the bodys own natural production of testosterone...I just ordered some Z-mass Pm for this reason i\'ll let you know if its any good!! hope that helps ...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Creatine is good for the \"beginner\" who just starts to work out.(esp. the first 3 months) For persons who work out for quite a period of time, they don\'t really get any benefit from it. Also the syrup form has no real advantage over the powder form (according to my friend.....however he got diarrhoea with powder form so he can only use syrup).
The most important thing is the your total protein intake. (Make sure you don\'t have diabetes...otherwise you are going to kill your kidney with no time.) There are a lot of protein supplement on the market. Look for those said \"Whey\" protein one - they are better. However some brand will give you diarrhoea and you should avoid it. Otherwise it is useless. (you have to try every thing to find out which one suits you though.)
Those stuff that claimed to increase the \"nature\" testosterone didn\'t really work...except one....which I can\'t remember the name. I will get it to you later.
Some basic Vitamins are often overlooked but they are important. Vit B12 and folate are those in my mind at the moment.

[Bruce]

I use \"Tribulous Stack\" by TwinLab and like that. It is a mixture of trib and DHEA.. I also use creatine. I agree that it is a great buzz when you first start using it as you can almost watch yourself grow; you do reach a plateau, but I still take it now. I\'m a vegetarian and I think I need it for lifting. I also use various HGH and IGF-1 sprays. They are great. And various GH stimulating formulae: amino acid blends, niacin, GABA, etc. I have tried loads of different protein powders but I can\'t digest them very well; they give me diarhea as someone mentioned. Now I make up massive bowls full of rice, tofu, flax seed oil (pour gobs on), ginger and shoyu (soy sauce); mix that altogether and it digests fantastic. Nowadays I think finding the right diet and work out program and getting enough rest (including not stressing out about day to day things) are the most important; the rest helps some, but don\'t let them overshawdow your diet and workout.
Cheers,
Bruce

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DD
The best there is comes from this company
Biotest (\"http://biotest-online.com/\")
And they run this online magazine
Testosterone (\"http://www.t-mag.com/\")
and they have a lot of info and are usualy very helpfull in answering e-mails.

They also have some people writing for them that are at the fore-front of hormonal research

Satan

[Nutt]

I cant for the life of me rember the name, but the best avalible creatin is some stuff by a german manufaturer, and most german brands are significantly better ( read, more metabolisiable ( is that a word!) creatin in it)

Ive heared the syrup often makes slightly dubious claims about ammount of creatin in the ammount you should take daily, I would stick to powder if I were you.

It seems fairly safe as long as your sensible and most people get good results, Ive considered it, but I dont have time to work out as much as I\'d like at the moment so its not really worth it for me just now, but I probably will try it.

again, the most important thing is protein. I only do free weights 4-5 times a week now, but I try to eat at least 3 or 4 tins of tuna a week + a reasonable diet to add a little extra protein to the mix, plenty of protein is needed to get maximum results especialy when you first start though.
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk (\"http://www.muscletalk.co.uk\") seems fairly well informed about this stuff. check out the forums there.

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I agree with Satan. For the best training and nutrition information go to the online magazine t-mag.com. It\'s free. Just read read read.

[Whitehall]

Yes, Biotest is one of the best companies out there. Not all of their products have worked for me or even been tolerable, but they all were of good quality and well and responsibly thought out. They\'ve become more gung-ho lately in their product discussions which has raised a red flag to me.

An even better company is Medlean, especially for the more mature fellas. Their products are less for hardcore meatheads (I mean weightlifters) and more for male hormonal replacement and balancing. They do make a nor-andro cream just for muscle building. It\'s more of a physician\'s company.

My favorite product is Medlean\'s Andro Sports Cream. It is a topical product with androstenediol and a mix of anti-estrogen herbal extracts. Biotest\'s Androsol delivers the andro feeling quicker but Medlean seems to prevent side effects better. I\'m ordering some tomorrow, in fact, to do a four week cycle. Haven\'t seen any in local distribution yet so one has to order over the net (Netrition has always been cheapest and service has been good.)
www.medlean.com (\"http://www.medlean.com\") and www.netrition.com (\"http://www.netrition.com\")

I\'ve tried creatine and found it to be totally cosmetic - sure, it pumps up the muscles but maybe that should be \"lumps up.\" It\'s like the grocery store soaking the ham in salt water - the effects fade very quickly as the meat de-waters and it doesn\'t really make you stronger or have more stamina.

Tribulus is still an open question for me. Tribstan seems the most serious product but is over-priced. Biotest\'s Tribex-500 seems strong but somehow disagreed with me when I tried it a couple of years ago. Neither has shown me the effects promised so far as I can recognize.

As for tofu, isn\'t that stuff laden with phytoestrogens? I won\'t touch the stuff (OK, maybe a little in miso soap).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Creatine and Protein....That’s about it. I have used both illegal products in the past i.e. roids, as well as just about every other thing that was supposed to build ya up and lean ya out.

But after more than 20 years of this I have found that creatine and some quality protein (I like Whey) works the best and has more than enough real testing to back it up.

TCO
P.S. Do not over exercise. Every one is unique. But I have seen more guys go from hitting all body parts 2-3 times a week and not making much gains to doing one heavy workout per 7 day cycle per body part and after 3-4 weeks just blasting past their short term as well as long term goals.....Less is more.

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I\'ve been seriously involved in resistance training for well over 15 years. I wasn\'t going to comment about some things here but I thought if I didn\'t try to share things I know about that you guys are asking about, I\'d be a prick. As free as you all are with your pheromeone knowledge I\'m just trying repay with something I have alot of experiance in.

So ... what works in getting bigger, stronger, leaner ?

Three important things in this order :

1) Hard and brief exercise.
2) Recovery
3) Nutrition

I\'ll be brief as I can :

1) Training has to be HARD. If the training is hard it has to be breif. No two ways about it. It\'s a fact that hard, intense exercise builds muscle - not long, easier sessions. Use the compound movements as the foundation of your routines ( Squats, Deadlifts, Chins, Dips, rows, Overhead Pressing, etc.) Leave the single joint movements like concentration curls, lateral raises, flyes, etc. aside except for a short change-of-pace or to \'water down\' a hard routine when you\'re nearing the end of a cycle. Concentrate on PROGESSION in those big exercises ; adding small amounts of weight consistantly. Progression is the most important thing. Suppose you are pressing 70lbs for ten reps now and in a year you progress to using using 150 for ten , don\'t you think you\'re going to look a hell of alot different in the upperbody ? Concentrate on getting STRONGER in the big exercises for reps. If you do this and you have the genetics for muscular size, the size will follow. It\'s very simple - just hard to do. That\'s the way it is.

2) Rest. With workouts as intense as you need them to create a change in your body , the routines have to be breif and infrequent. Two or three HARD 30-40 minute sessions is all you\'ll need. Whe you really learn how to train HARD you won\'t be able to handle anymore. They have to be hard workouts; not taking 5 minutes between sets while talking baseball with the next guy. If you are really hitting your workouts seriously you won\'t be meeting your next girlfriend at the gym unless it\'s in the parking lot before you go in.

3) Food. You don\'t have to be a health food fanatic. But for the most part eat decent food most of the year. You all know what foods are good and which aren\'t.

*Hint* : a Dunkin Donuts breakfast , Burger King lunch and Pizza dinner isn\'t the way to go. Once in awhile eating this shit isn\'t going to make a difference but don\'t go nuts.

Supplements ? Don\'t waste your $$$. If this crap actually did what they claimed, they\'d be considered DRUGS by the FDA and NOT be available OTC. Simple as that.

Biggest mistake I\'ve seen people make with exercise is confusing real exercise with recreation. Result producing exercise is hard work. If you approach your workouts in the same way as your friendly bowling night, you can\'t realistically expect the gains you\'re probably going to the gym seeking.

There\'s nothing wrong exercise/workouts as your recreational nights out with friends - just recognize it as that and keep your result expectations in line with your approach. If you\'re doing so and just \'going through the motions\', don\'t blame your routine, genetics or equipment for poorer than anticipated results.

After all your knowledge on pheromones being offered and welcoming newbies to this board with open arms, I thought I\'d offer some advice in a dept I think I could be some help.

I\'ll shut up now.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, Whey is great stuff AA wise, but quite honestly, the beta-lactoglobulin is _NOT_ very digestable. It is thought to be like retinal binding protein. These proteins are designed to survive the stomache and GI tract to deliver the retinal. Also there is a significant # of people that have severe alergies to whey. Reasons unknown.

Tofu, or soy (or soya, the list continues) is the cheapest source of protein in the world. Also the most bioavailable plant protein. I think someone made up a new synonym for bioavailable, but hey, creativity has its merits.

The best protein for us, AA content and bioavailability wise, is Serum albumin, but that is a bit icky. Second is Ovalbumin, or one of the components of egg whites. PS, always cook eggs, not just because they are full of bacteria, but they also will cause vitamin deficiencies in the raw form. OK I think I have nrrded out enough for now...

But on one other side note, 150 posts and you become a PheroDude.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Jim,

Thanks for the advice. I have a quick question though. You said that all supplements are crap. Do you include protein/amino acids in the category of supplements? I find that I have a difficult time getting enough protein in my diet. Any thoughts?

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Im still finding that my Tribulus supplement also has Zinc ginseng B6 B5 C and other supplements in it which seems to be working well more energy actually ar eal boost and i think that creatine does have an effect in maintaining muscle gains longer if you dont exercise or weight train for a while the advice here of 2-3 sessions a week is good although some people benefit from 4 or 5 a week, also another important thing to do is keep up the water supply (and also milk for calcium protein adn amino acids a good supply)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bump guys any thoughts on DHEA (internal form of rone) also on tribulus and other supupplements like ginseng gingko or some super secret new stuff we havent uncovered that may give energy boosts to every day life.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Had another thought on magnesium is a good supplement for men and iron and folate for women.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Magnesium can be good for men or women b/c many people are deficient in it.

Iron for men/women only if they have reason to believe they\'re deficient. Years ago the idea floated around that too much iron caused an increased risk of cardiovascular disease... it\'s been 5-6 years since I\'ve read anything about that though (and I\'ve not actively researched it) so it may not have panned out.

Based on a few studies I\'ve seen, Tribulus is only worth it if you\'re looking for an increase in sex drive.

DHEA may slighly raise testosterone levels short term, but that effect is reduced over time & DHEA can raise estrogen lvls, meaning it can acutally be counter-productive.

As for Ginseng, some studies show it will increase energy, some studies show no affect. \'Real world\' results - users generally report no affect.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Creatine is actually one of the few supplements that acutally works. If anyone got diarrea from creatine, it\'s probably b/c they were taking too much. I take the flavorless powder kind, the beverage types are overpriced for what you get imo. Also, brand doesn\'t matter - creatine is creatine.

Protien supplements in the form of a shake or bar are great, especially if have trouble getting enough protien from \'real food.\' Some people can\'t stand protien bars/shakes, but after all the chicken breasts, tuna, and egg whites I\'ve eaten, they seem like a wonderful respite.

If you\'re really serious about getting in shape, try eating six meals a day. If you can\'t manage that, try at least 4 or 5.

Someone mentioned gingko... it\'s been used for decades (centuries?) to boost memory, but it won\'t help at all in terms of body-building.

Btw, for beginners I\'d highly recommend the book \"Body for Life\" by Bill Philips. Even with a fairly extensive knowledge of the field, I like to refer back to the list of \"approved foods\" in this book.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

One thing that im thinking is being missed is the fact that

* Increased sex drive = more energy and gettin things done etc, also increase activity and metabolic rate = increased production of natural pheromones which if being used with synthetics ie SOE and the pit trick being used would increase the breakdown of pheros = greater effects. etc.

* Also thats why exercise and toned bodies etc get more sex because = increase pheromones. Ok im going round in circles but the whole things fit together thats why this is just another piece of the puzzle ( i would recommend taking at least vitamin supplements and tribulus or gineseng is also a good source of energy. It also allows clarity of thought which in any job is important its all about having the edge over someone else (no pun intended there either)