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bubblebob
01-06-2007, 05:13 AM
Hey guys!

I

am one of these quiet guys, that every now and then get lost in some sort of 'slight depression'. Maybe depression

is the wrong word, but I'm definitely feeling down relatively often. But I'm not that far down that I feel I

should go and see a professional...

Is there some kind of stuff that could elevate my mood, make me less

quiet, more active? I've ordered Sulbutamine a while ago, but unfortunately it never arrived. But maybe that would

be the wrong stuff anyways? If you do know of something that could help me (some kind of "food additional" (don't

know the right word)) please do also say where I could order that stuff online (I'm from Central

Europe).

Best wishes,
bb

Bruce
01-06-2007, 10:09 AM
BB,

Run over to Amazon and

have a look at this book. I read it cover to cover many years ago and it sort of "changed my life" you could say.

I just had a look at it at Amazon now and it seems to have been greatly upgraded. Customers give it a five star

rating and I am not surprised. It is very easy reading but FULL of great information on this subject. Here is the

link at Amazon, but if you can't get it to load just go to amazon.com and search for
Dealing with Depression

Naturally by Syd

Baumel

http://www.amazon.com/Dealing-Depression-Naturally-Alternatives-Complementary/dp/0658002910/sr=1-

2/qid=1168103069/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-0706635-3236745?ie=UTF8&s=books

Good luck,
B

bubblebob
01-06-2007, 02:50 PM
Thanks a ton, Bruce. I will

check it out! Unfortunately it has never been translated to german, but I guess I'll give it a try

anyway...

Some help concerning nutritional additions is still welcomed... ;)

Bruce
01-06-2007, 03:01 PM
It's not difficult reading, and if

you just google the various remedies, you will be able to figure out what they are and where you can get

them.

Good luck,
B

belgareth
01-06-2007, 03:11 PM
Thanks a ton,

Bruce. I will check it out! Unfortunately it has never been translated to german, but I guess I'll give it a try

anyway...

Some help concerning nutritional additions is still welcomed... ;)
There was an article on

the web a while back about Inositol. It seems the University of Isreal did some work with it regarding depression.

Pretty large doses but no bad side effects. There's also DMAE which can be a help, even in moderate doses. Look for

it in liquid form (DMAE H3) and its dirt cheap.

bubblebob
01-10-2007, 09:28 AM
Thanks,

Belgareth!

I've looked for DMAE-H3, but it seems that it's mainly used for memory improvement. Do you have

a link to an article that deals with DMEA in the context of depression?

belgareth
01-10-2007, 09:55 AM
Thanks,

Belgareth!

I've looked for DMAE-H3, but it seems that it's mainly used for memory improvement. Do you have a

link to an article that deals with DMEA in the context of depression?
No, I can only give you enpirical

accounts about DMAE H3 and depression. I'm not depressed but it brings my mood up quite a lot and others have told

me the same thing. One older lady who is on antidepressents calls it her 'Smart Mouth Supplement' When she's

taking it her mouth tends to over-ride her limited good sense.

bubblebob
01-10-2007, 10:50 AM
That sounds like it's made

for me - at the moment my mouth tends to remain shut most of the time... ;) I think I will give it a try, and it

really doesn't cost a world.

Thanks again
bb

belgareth
01-10-2007, 01:07 PM
When you try it, the normal

dose is ten drops. Take it in the morning and watch for signs of sleeplessness at night. That means you are getting

too much.

bubblebob
01-10-2007, 01:11 PM
Thanks, I've just ordered a

bottle for 5$ (shipping is twice as much)... ;-) Hope it helps.

gaf
01-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Don't forget the basics, good food

and exercise help alot too! As you're from europe and its winter time its natural to feel a bit less perky. Make

sure you get plenty of natural light as that will have an effect. Also, reduce/stop alcohol and recreational drug

intake (if you do) "st johns wort" is another natural mood enhancer but takes a few weeks to kick in, so I'm told.

Another thing is that I find SOE helps to lift my mood , try that too!

good luck. :wave:

belgareth
01-10-2007, 05:25 PM
Thanks, I've

just ordered a bottle for 5$ (shipping is twice as much)... ;-) Hope it helps.

Yeah, I know how that

goes. Usually I buy 4-5 bottles at a time to save shipping.

WorkingMann
01-10-2007, 06:05 PM
Hey

guys!

I am one of these quiet guys, that every now and then get lost in some sort of 'slight depression'. Maybe

depression is the wrong word, but I'm definitely feeling down relatively often. But I'm not that far down that I

feel I should go and see a professional...

Is there some kind of stuff that could elevate my mood, make me less

quiet, more active? I've ordered Sulbutamine a while ago, but unfortunately it never arrived. But maybe that would

be the wrong stuff anyways? If you do know of something that could help me (some kind of "food additional" (don't

know the right word)) please do also say where I could order that stuff online (I'm from Central Europe).

Best

wishes,
bb

what is this Sulbutamine? :think:

bubblebob
01-11-2007, 06:44 AM
@gaf: I'm a vegetarian with a

strong accent on veganism, eating fresh food most of the time. So I think healthy eating is no problem here. I've

started to workout again shortly before christmas - three times a week for 2 hours. Should be enough. Sunlight is a

little difficult at the moment, as the weather around here is rainy since weeks... Oh, and alcohol/drugs are no

problem as I don't do them or at least very rarely.
I've used SoE today again with a few drops of AE and I

have to say that my mood is a lot better today than it was yesterday. Maybe this can be attributed to

SoE...

@WorkingMan
Sulbutamine is a "preform" (don't know the correct word) of a B vitamin (I think it

was B6 or B2). It passes the brain-blood-barrier very easily and enhances certain functions of the brain - memory,

alertness and mood. Some people have even said that it provides a slight euphoria. I'll give DMEA a chance and if

it doesn't work for me I'll try to order some Sulbutamine again. S. is used in Arcalion in Europe, but as far as I

know you need a recipe to get it...

Whitehall
01-11-2007, 06:19 PM
L-phenylanaline, one gram on an

empty stomach, no protein or other amino acids for an hour or two. That cheers me up.

One can also try

5-HTP, a precursor to serotoin, either 50 or 100 mg before bed as it makes one sleepy.

Both of these are

really foods, specially, amino acids the building blocks of protein. They are also ingredients to neurotransmitters

- 5-HTP for serotoin, l-phenylanaline for dopamine.

if you're a vegan, then try l-arginine. Most vegan

diets are lacking or skimping this essential amino acid. It affects lots of internal biochemical systems - it is

essential to the production of seminal fluid, for example. Adding a bit of B-6 helps utilitize it.

bubblebob
01-15-2007, 08:13 AM
Thought I'd give you an

update on my state... ;)

As I'm waiting for my DMEA and the book to arrive, I looked around for other things

that could improve my energy and mood. I've stumbled upon a bodybuilding board, where one advertised drinking

'Yerba Mate' the south american way (that is looooots of yerba leafs plus a little hot water) to improve energy

levels and help burning body fat, too. So I decided to give it a try and it's really great. I definitely feel a

boost in energy and my mood has gone up a good way. I guess I will use this stuff daily from now

on.

Additionally, working out and doing cardio training 3 to 4 times a week has helped, too. I'm already

feeling fitter... I have decided to go to the tanning studio regularly over the winter - I think getting some extra

light during the greyish season could help.

I'm curious if and how much the stuff I ordered will still

improve my mood and energy.

Thanks for all your help,
bb :thumbsup:

Bruce
01-15-2007, 08:42 AM
Sounds like you are headed in a good

direction. As they say "where there is a will, there is a way". I'm sure you will get where you want to be very

soon. It is nice to see the big response you got to your thread. Sometimes it helps just knowing that others care.



Good luck,
B

WorkingMann
01-15-2007, 05:00 PM
Really nice...!
It's

scientifically known that people that work out is more likely not to have depression and also to have more

energy..
Fx. kids at school that goes to football is better in class and have more energy than those that doesn't

have a sport or is'nt active..
So working out, and being active (walking a long time, do workout, go to sports

etc) is alway a good general cure for mood swings, and energy loss..

bubblebob
01-16-2007, 04:43 AM
Yeah, but unfortunately these

phases (me doing sports) don't last long most of the time. But maybe this time it's different, as I set some

specific goals which will require hard work to achieve. Nothing better than having an aim...

belgareth
01-16-2007, 04:48 AM
After a while working out

becomes a part of your life. You feel odd if you don't do it. Like brushing your teeth.

Holmes
01-16-2007, 09:49 AM
Great thread. I could REALLY use

information like this right about now. 2007 hasn't exactly been the "Summer Of George" thus far. (So much for

resolutions...)

Thanks for the book recommendation, Bruce. I'd heard of the title, but somehow never read

the book. Will be grabbing a copy today.

I've been using l-arg steadily for a month now...all I've noticed

is a flood of unwanted energy. Maybe I'm taking too much (500 mg. 3x)?

What brand of 5-HTP is best?



As for the Empirical evidence on DMAE-H3...is that why they were able to rebuild the Death Star so

quickly?

Whitehall
01-16-2007, 12:21 PM
There are all the same in my

experience.

Start with 50 mg and be aware that there might be rebound when you discontinue taking

it.

It can also excite the gut nerves and suppress appetite. Further is can delay or suppress orgasm - great

for guys with a hair trigger but can frustrate some women.

bronzie
01-17-2007, 08:04 PM
bubblebob?

depression....

here is how I dealt with it years ago, bodybuilding, exercise is a must, as it makes your body

produce endomorphins, next is sunlight, if you cant get hit outside, hit a solarium until your black, food is

important, stick to low suger carb diet, another requirement is understanding where your depression comes from, and

changing it by eliminating the cause, you may or may not be able to do this own your own, sometimes people turn to

someone to talk too, its no big deal, also, im not much into organised religions, but one that seems to try to

address depression in its core philosophy is buddism. suffering is part of life, and through meditation and

contemplation, you can defeat negative thoughts that lead to depression.

bubblebob
01-18-2007, 05:13 AM
bronzie,

Thanks. Some

of your suggestions I've already covered - workout (weight and cardio training), solarium (although not until I'm

black *g*) and healthy food, in the moment practically sugar-free. Finding the cause of my depression is the really

hard part. I have an idea about this - there are some things missing in my life. I've thought about seeing a

psychologist for some time now. If I'm not able to defeat the depression all by myself I will try finding a good

one.

I've been interested in buddhism for quite some time now, reading some books etc. But I never took the

next step - dealing with it actively. I'm a atheist and am not into religions at all, but I see buddhism more as a

philosophy than religion. As soon as I find some money I will look for a course in meditation.

Thanks

again,
bb

bubblebob
03-26-2007, 07:40 AM
Finally, after more than a

month waiting, the book that Bruce mentioned "Dealing with Depression Naturally" has arrived. This book seems to be

packed with tons of advice - I'm sure I will learn some things that I can add to my 'mental cure' program.



Thanks again Bruce for pointing at that book...

bubblebob
03-27-2007, 05:12 AM
I hope that you don't mind if

I turn this thread into a form of 'diary'. Maybe this can help others with similar problems, too...

I've

read about half of the book yesterday, which included all of the nutritional treatments, made some notes and

filtered out some things, that seemed promising to try. After reading the introduction and description of the

various types of depression, I would "categorize" my form as atypical depression.

I've bought today high

concentrated supplements of Thiamin (B1) and Folic Acid at the pharmacy. According to Baumel, megadoses of Thiamin

are especially promising for atypical depression and Folic Acid is a sort of 'allround' helper for mood-related

problems.
Additionally I have ordered L-Phenylalanin and Methionine (a cheap precursor to the extremely pricey

SAMe) - both seem to be really promising. All in all it's been quite expensive - around 70€ (90$ or so). I

hope I won't need all that stuff all the time - there won't be much money left for mones... ;)

I have

tested DMAE-H3 for about a month now, with daily doses between 10 and 15 drops. I don't have the impression, that

this stuff helps a lot with my mood - but it may have helped my concentration and memory (although I'm not totally

sure about it). But as it's really cheap I may as well buy some more bottles as soon as my current one is empty and

test this stuff some more.

I'll keep you updated of my results...

bb

bubblebob
04-22-2007, 02:20 AM
Alrighty, next

update...

I've been using megadoses of Thiamin, Folic Acid and some Phenylalanin for several weeks now. I

don't have the impression that it helps much - maybe the Thiamin works best, but it's no great change either.

Phenylalanin often makes me feel like running to the bathroom and vomiting - I don't think I'm going to use this

any further... ;)

I have decided to get a full medical check-up. I've seen the doctor last week for a

sonography of my thyroid gland (is it called like that?) - most members of my family have a problem with that organ

and Baumel's book identifies hypothyreosis as one of the main reasons for depression. Maybe this is the case for

me, too... If not, I'm discussing with my doc what we could check furtherly - maybe checking my blood values and

so on...

idesign
07-13-2007, 08:27 PM
Heya bubblebob,

I've

been dealing with a low-grade, chronic depression most of my life, sometimes spiking to serious. I think I've used

every supplement mentioned here, as well as some pharms, but I've been off those for quite a few years. The

supplements help to a point, and can boost naturally deficient areas. They do help in my case, and I continue to

supplement in that way.

My greatest success, such as it is, has come mostly from understanding as much as

possible about the root causes, and their effects, and then training my mind, much like a workout, to re-train the

faulty thought processes which can quite literally lead you into the dumps.

Its a lot more difficult than

taking a pill, but the rewards can be spectacular. There are setbacks, failures and seemingly hopeless droughts,

but the cumulative benefit of your efforts will always show. Its hard work, but in my case there's really been no

good substitute.

Finding a good, responsible therapist/counselor is harder than finding a good woman. Find

one who has your best interests in mind, without an agenda, and you may have a winner.

One book I remember

helping a lot was "The Lies We Believe". Sorry, don't remember the author.

Best wishes,
Greg

tenaciousBLADE
08-14-2007, 02:55 PM
I looked around,

even searched wikipedia, trying to figure out what this DMAE-H3 is.

I'm more interested in the memory

improvement effect.
My memory is great, but I love feeling sharper. The memory boost itself makes me feel elivated

in mood :rofl:
And it's quite hard for me to stay focused in studies, which makes my yacht license take much

longer to get than I would have wanted it to.
A memory improvement could really help me there ^_^;

Is it the

same as Omega 3? Or similar? Or... uhh... what is it? :blink:
Is it also, umm... a type of fish oil? like Omega

3...
Does it leave a bad stomach odor after usage?
And does it really improve memory?
I've used Omega 3

in the past and can truthfully say it indeed somewhat improved memory, and focus.. and generaly - brain activity was

somewhat accelerated.
However, the bad smell it left in my stomach was unberable... Especially if I accidentally

burped (sorry to mention this, lol, but it seems like an important fact for the matter :wub: ).
So at the end I

just HAD to stop using it.

The suggestion on the box was to eat before every usage (well of course!), but that

just wasn't enough to help.

I wonder if this DMAE-H3 could truly help me have a better, sharper memory.

And

you say it's cheap too - what a bonus!

So... any expirience\ideas in the matter? :type:

nicky18
09-12-2007, 11:38 PM
A glass of red wine ;)

tenaciousBLADE
09-13-2007, 12:18 AM
huh?
Are you saying that

DMAE-H3 is just wine? :eek:

that1guy
09-13-2007, 12:28 AM
tenaciousBlade, i'm not

exactly sure what DMAE-h3 is. Specificly, the h-3 part. The only websites ive found so far with info about DMAE-h3

are trying to sell it and dont tell me the scientific name so i would know if its any different from DMAE, or the

same thing in liquid form.

Anyway, i have some experience with DMAE (as dimethylaminoethenol bitartate) in

powdered form in capsules. Theoretically, it a a precurser to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine that crosses the

blood barrier better that choline (a popular supplement used by bodybuilders.)

When i first started taking the

Dmae (200-300 mg a day) i would notice a simulating effect. Sorta like adderall but without the quickened

heartheart or physical stimulation. After a few days i stopped getting the effect, mabye sometimes slightly. It

seems to have had a positive effect, but im not very good at judging that, since i cant directly compare it to

before.

tenaciousBLADE
09-13-2007, 07:46 AM
Thanks for the reply

:)
I still don't get what kind of positive effect it gives though... :o
And how does it effect our

brain?
I mean in what way?
I get that it crosses the BBB, but I have no idea what purpose it has for doing

so.
Well anyhow thanks for the info :D

that1guy
09-14-2007, 08:27 PM
well, having an increased

amount of acetylcholine precursors in the brain would make it easier for the brain to make acetylcholine (and

prehaps it would thus make more.) since acetylcholine is used by the brain for communication between nerons, this

may make it easier (and mabye faster) for information to be communicated. Easier communication seems to me like it

would lead to better recall, and faster communication seems like it would lead to faster/ more focused thought.

keep in mind that these are my speculations, not scientific theories.

I have read studies that showed increased

acetylcholine levels in the muscles leads to better preformance in endurance tests, and studies that showed dmae

increased mental capabilities (but i dont remember exactly what was tested). unfortunatly all of these studies

dealt with cause and effect, not why or how. i think our science still doesnt really understand enough to tell us

why the brain works like it does.

i hope this helps

tenaciousBLADE
09-14-2007, 11:17 PM
Yeah! :D
That helped a

lot! :thumbsup:
Thanks :)

It sounds a lot like what I know as Omega-3...
I wonder if it's the same

thing...:think:

that1guy
09-17-2007, 02:24 AM
Glad i could be of service.

feel free to hit me up with some reputation.

Dmae and omega 3 are definatly not the same thing. omega 3 is a

fatty acid. they both are reported to have positive effects, but probably acheive them in different ways.

if

you have any more questions feel free to ask.

tenaciousBLADE
09-17-2007, 07:47 AM
Shanx mate :D

Chai Tea
01-04-2008, 10:12 AM
This thread obligates me to

add.

idesign nails the real answer. You can supplement all you want. And pharms have heavy

tradeoffs.

But there is depression and then there is Depression.

Your brain builds a coping

superhighway when you are under stress. If you burn out your coping mechanisms, the superhighway turns out to go to

some very bad places.

Do not ignore serious treatment for serious depression. Pharms could help bridge a

difficult period until you find new coping mechanisms, build new brain superhighways.

You might find new

coping ways in unusual places. Drawing, puttering with mechanics, cooking, dancing, and any of the eastern

practices like meditation and tai chi. Anything that makes the passing of time disappear for you.

The longer

you wait to get the right treatment for you, natural, pharmaceutical, therapeutic, spiritual, or some combination;

And the more episodes of depression you have, the harder it is to treat, no matter what methods you are

using.

Repeat for emphasis: The more episodes you get, the harder it becomes to treat.

Upside: You

grow after a long time to make peace with depression. And then you are just at peace and no longer depressed, even

if your brain tries to take the wrong exit on its superhighways.

Caution. Building new thinking habits takes

a tremendous commitment. I find the commitment turns out to be not to some vague "happiness." But to recognizing

how amazing your life is. And what normal ups and downs are. Sounds corny.

Not building new thinking habits

is very risky to your mental and physical health.

Natural supplementation is best, of course. The

pharmacology of natural or pharmaceutical supplements is not clearly known.

As it stands today, serotonin,

dopamine, and norepinephrine are the targets of natural and pharm help. Each person reacts to these differently.

Some need stimulation, some need calming. Each can be healing for the one it is meant for.

Don't forget to

laugh each day.

Utterly healing.

idesign
01-05-2008, 07:18 PM
T

Your

brain builds a coping superhighway when you are under stress. If you burn out your coping mechanisms, the

superhighway turns out to go to some very bad places.

Do not ignore serious treatment for serious depression.



You might find new coping ways in unusual places. Drawing, puttering with mechanics, cooking, dancing, and any

of the eastern practices like meditation and tai chi. Anything that makes the passing of time disappear for

you.

Repeat for emphasis: The more episodes you get, the harder it becomes to treat.

Upside: You grow after

a long time to make peace with depression. And then you are just at peace and no longer depressed, even if your

brain tries to take the wrong exit on its superhighways.

Caution. Building new thinking habits takes a

tremendous commitment. I find the commitment turns out to be not to some vague "happiness." But to recognizing how

amazing your life is. And what normal ups and downs are. Sounds corny.

Not building new thinking habits is very

risky to your mental and physical health.

Don't forget to laugh each day.

Utterly healing.

Will

repeat your advice: Serious Depression requires immediate treatment.

Corny is way underrated. In a world of

cool, and manipulating reality to fit some conceived alternate reality or another, there is always the radical

concept of being who you are.

For me the great challenge was first learning that, and then becoming comfortable

with it.

Peace with depression ultimately becomes peace with who you are. Overcome it to function well enough in

society, accept it as part of your being, and use it to allow a unique difference to sprout from your experience,

which, by the way, tends to be a deeper understanding of many of life's idiosyncrasies. Don't want to be an

elitist here, but depression causes quiet, and time for nothing but the world observed.

You're right, the

commitment is huge, and the trail steep, but the alternative is flat-lining.

Nice to have you here Chai,
Greg