Pheromone Feedback & Testosterone

[Mungojerry]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[bronzie]

Obviously pheromones do have

some impact on hormone levels and do effect our physiology first and foremost before they effect our physology, yes

this has been raised in the past, and some members have even gone as far as saying because of the nature of the

product (unregulated/untested) we could be doing untold and unknown things to our physiology, both in the short and

long term. For me, this is a concern. I know some members use pheromones on a daily basis, some even feel "naked" or

"incomplete" when not using them. Others may attribute this to physology, however there may be physiological reasons

for this, a kind of addiction if you will.

I personally do not use pheromones on a daily basis for this

reason. I mainly use them on a first or second date, to hook the girl, after that, I let what nature intended.

[bronzie]

By the way, I know your question

was in regards to testosterone levels and effects, but I think that is one small facet in the bigger

picture.

Jvkhol might be better able to answer...

[Mungojerry]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Icehawk]

Yeah it works that way. First

off some mone called pregna-4,20-diene-3,6-dione (PDD) lowered LH and test levels in males amongst other things.

Second off some males react poorly to none and A1 so it obviously has some negative hormonal effect on them. As for

supressing phero levels, I think modern hygene has way more effect than mones.

[Mungojerry]

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[jvkohl]

First off some mone

called pregna-4,20-diene-3,6-dione (PDD) lowered LH and test levels in males amongst other things.



This compound was described to me by Clive Jennings-White (chemist for Erox/Pherin/HPS) as a progesteronic

pheromone. Progesterone is high during pregnancy and at the time a woman has her period. Lower LH and T would be the

likely result of a signal saying "find someone else; you cannot get me pregnant," while the ovulatory phase

estrogenic pheromones (copulins) signal "come and get me pregnant" by raising LH and testosterone. This is basically

what happens in other mammals to ensure what's called "properly timed reproductive sexual behavior."




Second off some males react poorly to none and A1 so it obviously has some negative hormonal

effect on them. As for supressing phero levels, I think modern hygene has way more effect than

mones.

-------------------------------------------------------------
The following is pure

speculation--supported by animal research but not by human

studies.
-------------------------------------------------------------

If male pheromone enhancement

causes a decline in LH and testosterone in other males, it is not merely a function of the pheromone--it is the

combination of their own associations with dominant males (at least, in theory). If they tend to come up the loser,

we can expect a decline in testosterone levels will accompany the expectation (so they're less likely to put up a

fight--again, from an animalistic approach). But male pheromone enhancement effects on the wearer should not have

the same effect as extra pheromones have on another male. Indeed, they might have the opposite effect, making him

unconsciously aware that he is the dominant male--perhaps even increasing his testosterone

levels.

----------------------------------------------------
Berliner, D.L., Monti-Bloch, L.,

Jennings-White, C., & Diaz-Sanchez, V. (1996) Functionality of the human vomeronasal organ (VNO): Evidence for

steroid receptors. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 58, 3, 259-265.

The citation above

is where the authors say that the progesteronic pheromone lowered testosterone. The question that remains is why

they never tested androstadienone to see if it raised testosterone (or did they?).




JVK

[Mungojerry]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[WorkingMann]

This compound

was described to me by Clive Jennings-White (chemist for Erox/Pherin/HPS) as a progesteronic pheromone. Progesterone

is high during pregnancy and at the time a woman has her period. Lower LH and T would be the likely result of a

signal saying "find someone else; you cannot get me pregnant," while the ovulatory phase estrogenic pheromones

(copulins) signal "come and get me pregnant" by raising LH and testosterone. This is basically what happens in other

mammals to ensure what's called "properly timed reproductive sexual behavior."





-------------------------------------------------------------
The following is pure speculation--supported

by animal research but not by human studies.
-------------------------------------------------------------

If

male pheromone enhancement causes a decline in LH and testosterone in other males, it is not merely a function of

the pheromone--it is the combination of their own associations with dominant males (at least, in theory). If they

tend to come up the loser, we can expect a decline in testosterone levels will accompany the expectation (so

they're less likely to put up a fight--again, from an animalistic approach). But male pheromone enhancement effects

on the wearer should not have the same effect as extra pheromones have on another male. Indeed, they might have the

opposite effect, making him unconsciously aware that he is the dominant male--perhaps even increasing his

testosterone levels.

----------------------------------------------------
Berliner, D.L., Monti-Bloch, L.,

Jennings-White, C., & Diaz-Sanchez, V. (1996) Functionality of the human vomeronasal organ (VNO): Evidence for

steroid receptors. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 58, 3, 259-265.

The citation above is

where the authors say that the progesteronic pheromone lowered testosterone. The question that remains is why they

never tested androstadienone to see if it raised testosterone (or did they?).




JVK
(http://)

Does this mean that if this animal

thing should be the same for us then..
When we apply the pheroes out body thinks there a more dominant male around

us (and that's the pheroes) and it stops producing so much testosterone..? Or am I reading this the wrong

way?
:LOL:

[Mungojerry]

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

[Marlboro_man]

No your

brain detects the stuff is coming from you, assumes you are the dominant male, therefore could potentially

increase your testosterone levels.

I can say that I definitely have an increased sex drive when wearing

NPA, so it must increase my own levels.

[WorkingMann]

Yes but in theory..
How can

our brain know it's our own and not becuase we smell some elses testosterone..?

[Icehawk]

Yes but in

theory..
How can our brain know it's our own and not becuase we smell some elses

testosterone..?

Look up anchoring. Your brain does it all the time. Plus the vaious studies on human

ability to follow scent to its source.

[WorkingMann]

Okay so it' really

possible.. Just can't see how but I might have to check that sometime..

[quaxer]

Isnt

it possible, that in such a situation our body on the contrary produces more testosterone / pheromones to enhance

competitiveness ?

That was my first assumption when I noticed that on pheromone application body odor and sperm

volume seemed to increase .....

[jvkohl]

Isnt it possible,

that in such a situation our body on the contrary produces more testosterone / pheromones to enhance

competitiveness?

Yes. Here's the link to one of several articles that JM Dabbs Jr has authored or

co-authored.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list

_uids=9811365&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Currently, integrating his (and others') findings with

effects of pheromones on hormones in other animals and in humans, allows for speculation that "winners" and "losers"

of competition respond with changes in testosterone that would be reflected in their production of masculine

pheromones. As I recall, someone even reported that chess competition resulted in increased testosterone in the

winner, and decreased testosterone in the loser.

JVK

[WorkingMann]

Yes. Here's

the link to one of several articles that JM Dabbs Jr has authored or

co-authored.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt

=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9811365&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_ui

ds=9811365&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

Currently, integrating his (and others')

findings with effects of pheromones on hormones in other animals and in humans, allows for speculation that

"winners" and "losers" of competition respond with changes in testosterone that would be reflected in their

production of masculine pheromones. As I recall, someone even reported that chess competition resulted in increased

testosterone in the winner, and decreased testosterone in the

loser.

JVK
(http://)

But wouldn't that be the same

for males around us?
When I wear pheroes their production of testosterone should increase because of their enhanced

competitiveness..?
:blink:

[jvkohl]

But wouldn't

that be the same for males around us?
When I wear pheroes their production of testosterone should increase

because of their enhanced competitiveness..?
:blink:

It would most likely depend on their

perception of whether or not they are the dominant male (e.g., the likely winner of competition). If, therefore,

pheromone-enhancement provides you with the benefit of thinking you will be the likely winner, in theory, your

testosterone level would be likely to rise; his would be more likely to

fall.

JVK

[WorkingMann]

It would most

likely depend on their perception of whether or not they are the dominant male (e.g., the likely winner of

competition). If, therefore, pheromone-enhancement provides you with the benefit of thinking you will be the likely

winner, in theory, your testosterone level would be likely to rise; his would be more likely to

fall.

JVK
(http://)

That also seems fair.. In animal

kingdom some males will try to take the "trone" and others will bow in the dust..
And also one of my friends have

had some time where he was very negative towards me and he kindda plays the boss for some reason.. I think he wants

to be the one everyone looks up to but he can't handle the pressure.. And then he blaimed me for everything and

yelled a lot.. This can be because he was threatened by me, because I started using more powerfull mones at that

time.. And he also have a thing for a girl that maybe likes me and he's a bit angry about it I think.. He's

doesn't do anything to get her, and kindda stand off (maybe because he thinks I'm the dominant male and therefor I

have the right to her) and he thinks she likes me bettter than him (she's just a friend to me so far) and perhaps

because he thinks I'm the dominant male he therefor unconsiusly thinks she likes me better because I'm the

dominant male..