Unattractive or intimidating?

[MagicPower]

Sometimes, a pheromone product makes girls appear completely uninterested in me

(the invisible man effect).

When girls pay no attention to me or even

walk away from me, it can mean two things.
It could mean that I don't

appear masculine enough, i.e. women don't consider me a prospective mate. If that were the case, I would need to

try a more sexual-type pheromone.
On the other hand, it could mean that I

appear too masculine and threatening. If that were the case, I should use a more fiendly-type

pheromone.

How can I tell which way it is? What signs should I look out

for, in order to be able to tell whether a pheromone product makes me appear not masculine enough or too

masculine?

[xvs]

How can I tell which

way it is? What signs should I look out for, in order to be able to tell whether a pheromone product makes me appear

not masculine enough or too masculine?

Generally, any products with androstenone will make you seem

more dominant. Too much will make you seem intimidating.

The only product I've found with the opposite

effect -- making you seem friendly and approachable -- is WAGG (and that's the product I use because anything with

androstenone totally scares 'em off. I'm intimidating enough as it is!).

So try a product with androstenone

in it, like Alpha-7, and try WAGG for the opposite effect to see what works for you.

[Bruce]

Magic,

There is tremendous magic

in a smile. People want to have a good time as a rule, and being with someone who looks like they are having a good

time works right along with that goal. A little WAGG, a little LT maybe, and a dab of good will.... you can't go

wrong.

Peace and Love,
B

[MagicPower]

Generally, any products with androstenone will make you seem more dominant. Too much

will make you seem intimidating.
So that would have been the case at the

party where I was last week?
There were 12 people (4M, 8F). I was wearing Alter

Ego. The two alpha females kept flirting with me throughout the evening, and even playfully competing for me,

whereas a lovely shy girl whom I was actually more interested in, wouldn't even look me in the eye, and once when I

was standing next to her, she actually walked farther away.
Would you say that's

a sign of too much -none?


The only product I've found with the

opposite effect -- making you seem friendly and approachable -- is WAGG
I

don't have WAGG but I just got WAGG-N and tried it once and it didn't seem to do anything. Gotta try

again.


So try a product with androstenone in it, like Alpha-7


I've been using Primal Instinct a lot, and the funny thing is that I

have never noticed any reactions whatsoever.
Thanks for the reply anyway, I'll

go on experimenting with different mones.


There is tremendous

magic in a smile. People want to have a good time as a rule, and being with someone who looks like they are having a

good time works right along with that goal.
Yeah, right. You forgot to

add: bring her flowers and take her dancing.

[maxo-texas]

Wagg-N gave me one of my two

negative self hits.

Otherwise, your post sounds like a classic -none overdose post. Maybe your natural -none is

already high.

Bruce has excellent advice.
1) Smile

I'd also say
2) Square off
3) Keep good posture.
4)

Know and use their names.
5) Find appropriate reasons to touch them in safe places (hands, shoulder).

[MagicPower]

Wagg-N gave

me one of my two negative self hits.
Pardon my ignorance but what does "negative self hits" mean?

[smooth312]

a dab of good

will...
Hey Bruce, I couldn't find "good will" on the main site, do you have a link where I can get

some?

Thanks.

^to the OP, it sounds to me you may be overdosing on the -none.

[MagicPower]

it sounds to me you may be overdosing on the

-none.
All right, everything's

logical so far. Reading the above, I would agree myself that it's a pretty clear case of -none OD. (Except that

getting it from 2 drops of AE seems quite an achievement.)

But now,

let's make things complicated. Not that I expect anybody to solve my problems for me, but this might be an

intellectual challenge for you.

The above-expressed assumption that I

seem to be naturally high on -none is in grave contradiction with my long-time experiences. You see, I can get

pretty much any girl agree to go out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed

afterwards. Sometimes they look outright surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or

something. You can imagine how offending it is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my

palm, and then suddenly she has this question written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I

would have SEX with you?" And in spite of that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again. In

short, I'm a typical case of a "nice guy" women like to be with and talk to, but won't consider as a sex

partner.
Different women have also made it clear that they don't consider

me physically threatening. For instance, they've been very surprised learning that I do martial arts, and said they

would have never expected that.

I think that would suggest I'm

naturally high on -nol and low on -none, wouldn't it?

Experts, any

idea how to explain that contradiction?

Bruce, just to save your time,

I do smile. Believe it or not, I also brush my teeth, and I don't fart in the presence of other people. So let's

skip that part and get to the point.

[ThatGuy]

The above-expressed assumption that I seem to be

naturally high on -none is in grave contradiction with my long-time experiences. You see, I can get pretty much any

girl agree to go out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed afterwards. Sometimes

they look outright surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or something. You can

imagine how offending it is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my palm, and then

suddenly she has this question written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I would have SEX

with you?" And in spite of that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again. In short, I'm a

typical case of a "nice guy" women like to be with and talk to, but won't consider as a sex

partner.
Different women have also made it clear that they don't consider me

physically threatening. For instance, they've been very surprised learning that I do martial arts, and said they

would have never expected that.

I think that would suggest I'm naturally high

on -nol and low on -none, wouldn't it?

Experts, any idea how to explain that

contradiction?

Bruce, just to save your time, I do smile. Believe it or not, I

also brush my teeth, and I don't fart in the presence of other people. So let's skip that part and get to the

point.

That problem has probably nothing to do with mones or your own

natural mone output.
It is more likely your own behavior that causes it.

I have been on dates were I

had great rapport with the girl where we both had a great time but I got the same results as you did when I tried to

bring it to a physical level.

The solutions is kino – i.e. touching the girl very early and gradually

escalate the touching in a natural way. Going from talking for two hours without any touching to suddenly suggesting

sex is simply to abrupt for many women.

[Mak]

You see, I can get pretty much any girl agree to go

out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed afterwards. Sometimes they look outright

surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or something. You can imagine how offending it

is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my palm, and then suddenly she has this question

written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I would have SEX with you?" And in spite of

that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again.



Magic, that sounds like needing a very little steering.

Once you meet a girl on such a date, execuse yourself

in the first 5 mins, and go apply nomore than 1 drop of PI, or even half drop to your neck.

That may tip the

evening for you, from 'nice guy' to 'desired'.

[maxo-texas]

Negative self hit.

I use

this to describe when putting a mone on makes me feel bad.

I have a pretty tight reign on my emotions most the

time and I can usually recognize when they are behaving wierdly without any logical reason. If I have unexplainable

strong bad feelings when using a mone, I think of that mone as negatively affecting me.

They are right about the

touching-- starting it early starts chemical and mental processes in the girl. Think about yourself this

way.

1)
A girl you have gotten comfortable with and laughed with for a few hours leans towards you.. and when

you lean toward her she kisses you.

2)
A pretty girl that you think is kinda hot after chatting with you for a

few minutes and you are thinking about asking her out and she suddenly leans forward and starts kissing you.

3)


A pretty girl walking past you that you know nothing about suddenly veers over and starts kissiing

you.

Probably reactions.
1) You like it.
2) You may not feel comfortable.
3) You will probably violently

withdraw and feel suspicious and wonder what the hell is going on. Is someone trying to rob you. Etc.

[terry0400-40]

All right, everything's logical so far. Reading the

above, I would agree myself that it's a pretty clear case of -none OD. (Except that getting it from 2 drops of AE

seems quite an achievement.)

But now, let's make things complicated.

Not that I expect anybody to solve my problems for me, but this might be an intellectual challenge for

you.

The above-expressed assumption that I seem to be naturally high on

-none is in grave contradiction with my long-time experiences. You see, I can get pretty much any girl agree to go

out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed afterwards. Sometimes they look outright

surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or something. You can imagine how offending it

is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my palm, and then suddenly she has this question

written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I would have SEX with you?" And in spite of

that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again. In short, I'm a typical case of a "nice guy"

women like to be with and talk to, but won't consider as a sex

partner.
Different women have also made it clear that they don't consider

me physically threatening. For instance, they've been very surprised learning that I do martial arts, and said they

would have never expected that.

I think that would suggest I'm

naturally high on -nol and low on -none, wouldn't it?

Experts, any

idea how to explain that contradiction?

Bruce, just to save your time,

I do smile. Believe it or not, I also brush my teeth, and I don't fart in the presence of other people. So let's

skip that part and get to the point.
MAGIC hi nice guy, being nice is a most wonderfull quality, so good on you, and i agree it

will not necessarily get you wasted i mean that in the very best of ways.But it can cause a

real lot of wasted downtime, so the best strategy would be to convey the message from the outset that you are a nice

guy ok great but a sexy nice guy or a sexy hot nice guy,

you will not be wasting time this way, and it will lead to more getting wasted wantonly wasted

we are dealing with numbers and percentages now as some girls do and some girls dont

and some girls just wont, and some girls just love it and there are

some girls who cant get enough, SO Slap a good mix on and go and do

your thing and be noticed, and just who are you You sexy hot nice guy.

hit hit HIT hit HIT hit HIT on them. Winers play the numbers

Thats the name of the game. GO 4 WHAT U WANT , life is so simple and

time is sliping slowly away.:thumbsup:

[MagicPower]

That problem has probably nothing to do with mones or your own natural mone

output. It is more likely your own behavior that causes it.
Guess so.

Thanks.



A pretty girl walking past you that you know

nothing about suddenly veers over and starts kissiing

you.
[---]
3) You will probably violently

withdraw and feel suspicious and wonder what the hell is going on.
So

sorry to disappoint you, but I really wouldn't mind. The other two alternatives would be really nice, too, and if

you asked me which one of the three I'd prefer, it would be rather hard to choose.

:-)
Of course, it is quite clear to me that women are dirrerent.





that sounds like needing a very little steering. Once you meet a girl on such a

date, execuse yourself [---] and go apply nomore than 1 drop of PI[---].
That may tip the

evening for you, from 'nice guy' to 'desired'.
Sounds

like a good idea. Thanks a lot, I'll try it.

Btw, this sounds interesting to

discuss further. Has anybody else noticed any 'mones that make women more comfortable with the idea of being

touched, or even actually wishing you'd touch them?

[d3kst3r]

My theory is that you need to at

least mirror the mones you're wearing otherwise they'll have a negative affect.

If you wear lots of -none but

act extremely timid and shy then people are going to be extremely hostile. If you act dominant however then you'll

get respect from it.

[Gegogi]

My theory is that you need

to at least mirror the mones you're wearing otherwise they'll have a negative affect.

If you wear lots of -none

but act extremely timid and shy then people are going to be extremely hostile. If you act dominant however then

you'll get respect from it.

I agree, for best results, your words, action and appearance should match

and/or complement your pheromone signature. Nevertheless, I have not once experienced hostily or even indifference

while wearing 'none products and going stealth. I can basically turn off my personality, assume buddha face and

almost melt into the wall. In said state I'm oft perceived as shy or even unfriendly. Also, I don't find it

necessary to be cocky, overbearing or obviously social dominant to be treated with respect. However you can project

an alpha aural by how you carry yourself, use your eyes and even manner of dress. The truth is, it's not a single

aspect of behavior but the sum of many little things than help complement your pheromone signature project the image

you desire.

[MagicPower]

you need to at least mirror the mones you're wearing [---]. If you wear

lots of -none but act extremely timid and shy then people are going to be extremely

hostile.
I agree, but I don't really meet much hostility. My problem is that I

don't seem to be able to interpret people's reactions correctly. I can't figure out whether I should try to

appear more masculine or less masculine.

[terry0400-40]

I agree, but I don't really meet much hostility. My problem is that I

don't seem to be able to interpret people's reactions correctly. I can't figure out whether I should try to

appear more masculine or less masculine.
Fu*k other

peoples reactions, just be what you are naturally and please yourself, dont worry the rest of the world will fall

into line, the only positive way you can change is to become more loving as a person, because just because people

dont recognise the spiritual side of themselves doesent stop it from manifesting very real effects in their lives,

pheromones or no pheromones, pheromones will have an effect on you the wearer just wear that one or combo that makes

you feel good and then it will enhance your signiture which is unique to you and no one else anyway and you will

attract that what you have an affinity for, in life we are never going to be attractive to every one, except maby

for the wrong reasons like money or power or fame or looks even still it is of no lasting advantage to you in the

building of the real man which is not an instant thing but takes a lifetime of refining so all you can really do is

just relax and be who you are as far as your chemistry is, enhanced or otherwise, as other personalities will still

have their gut feelings to what is real in their perceptions and a none genuine person or a person who is acting is

easily discerned on different levels either subconscious or conscious, A person can never perpetuate or sustain that

which is not true and they will only become twisted and sick inside when they insist on being false and this always

manifests over time in sickness and disease of mind or body. So as i said find out what is a feel good combo that

you really like to wear and go for it and relax with your own level of masculinity whatever it may be, as it is

different 4 all of us, and dress in a manner that pleases you and then you will have better chances of attracting

that which you have an affinity for and vice versa, its so simple.:wave:

[Gegogi]

I can't figure out

whether I should try to appear more masculine or less masculine.

I agree with Terry, be yourself. When I

was a young 'n dumb college student I was insecure and worried if I was masculine enough. In hindsight I realize

this was a total waste of time. If you try to be something your aren't you appear insincere, a mere poser. Once I

decided "damn the torpedos" and let it all hang out, I did much better. Most people accepted me at face value and

that was that. No loss at the few that didn't accept me. The most important personality trait is confidence and

security in who you are, and it really shows if you lack it. Be the real deal.

[terry0400-40]

I agree with Terry, be yourself. When I was a young 'n dumb college student I was insecure and

worried if I was masculine enough. In hindsight I realize this was a total waste of time. If you try to be something

your aren't you appear insincere, a mere poser. Once I decided "damn the torpedos" and let it all hang out, I did

much better. Most people accepted me at face value and that was that. No loss at the few that didn't accept me. The

most important personality trait is confidence and security in who you are, and it really shows if you lack it. Be

the real deal.Listen to Gegogi because he has been there, i really never had

a formal schooling so he really knows where your at, especially as he knows also the edict of the learning

facilities and also the social structure and cultural aspects regarding life and culture of the younger man ect.

Also have a look at some of Slickracers posts and or threads as he is a young man who really knows how to select

pheromone products that suit him and that he enjoys wearing for the effects they display upon him first and formost,

Relax and keep up posting because we all wish you success in your endevours and we are here 4 you Magic Power.

:cheers:

[MagicPower]

Fu*k other peoples reactions, just be what you are

naturally and please yourself, dont worry the rest of the world will fall into

line,
Don't give me such crap. For the fortunate few who can naturally

attract women, it's easy to laugh at those to whom the nature hasn't given that gift. For us the common mortals,

the statements like the one quoted are an outright insult. If there is one surefire way to devastating failure with

women, it's by acting naturally and speaking honestly.
If all that it takes is to be

yourself, why do you think are all those people buying pheromones? Actually... I wonder what are YOU doing in a

pheromone forum? :-))

[Gegogi]

Ease up their Mr. Magic, you're

missing the point. Believe me, show me a poser and I'll show you an unhappy man, and a man out of touch with

himself and those around him. Assuming your natural state of being means setting goals you really want, striving

towards them and becoming the best that you can be. Out of shape? Eat organic and hit the gym for an hour daily. Got

butt breath? Practice dental hygiene. Look like a geek? Drag along a fashion conscious friend when shopping. Have

difficulty speaking in front of groups? Join toastmasters. Look like a guy with no future? Major in something you

love and rise to the top of your professsion.

Women are attracted to guys that are confident in themselves

and have a future. You have to project that in spades. Trying to be more or less masculine is a fast ticket to

poserland.

I'm an effeminate Asian male: slight of build, long fingernails, metromale dresser and work as a

musician. Inside I'm tough as hell, driven and goal oriented, but outside I appear delicate, gentle and somewhat

feminine. I gave up long ago trying to appear more macho. It just didn't work and made me appear insincere (fake

voice, swagger, etc.). Women can spot a poser in a nanosecond. However, once I exorcise my demons 'n got my ducks

in a row, the poonani poured in. And this was long before I used pheromones. Honestly, lots of women are attracted

to effeminate guys. Oceans of them. I didn't find that out until I said hell with it and decided to be myself--the

best self I could be--and focused on doing what I loved--music.

[belgareth]

Gegogi and Terry are right, in

my opnion. Once you learn to be yourself and stop worrying about what others think you'll have better results. You

don't even need all the pieces. I'm a geek professionally, dress very casually and don't give a damn about style

but women are not any real problem for me. Even married I have opportunities regularly with very attractive women.

In part, its because I am not trying to attract them. Just having fun and enjoying life.

I should add that while

I agree with the general terms Gegogi used to define an alpha male I disagree on particular people he mentioned. But

that is probably more an issue of our own mindsets than anything else.

[Marlboro_man]

Magic,
Please don't be

offended by this but I have read this whole thread several times and here is what I have concluded.
1)You over

value the power of mones. They aren't magic (sorry for the word choice) rather they are part of the equation, as

well as kino, smile, and cofidence are.
2) Girls tend to be more relationship driven while men tend to be more sex

driven, especially when younger. So basically your asking girls to have sex with you when they don't feel that your

a good long term mate. Reverse the rules: what if a girl made you date her for 2 years without so much as a kiss?

You would probably run too!
3)You seem to be trying to follow the footsteps of someone like david D (who I learned

a ton from) but your not getting the whole picture. He will tell you that he can't pick up every woman he meets.

Your inner game doesn't seem to be there, and that's what everyone is saying in their own way. The reason everyone

is telling you to be yourself is because the MOST IMPORTANT THING TO ATTRACT A WOMAN IS CONFIDENCE!!!, and you

don't seem to be showing it. I have been down this road before so I understand. You are trying to be someone you

are not and therefore it causes you to fail with the ladies on dates. It's easy to get numbers and stuff by

"acting" confident but it takes "being" confident to get more. Confidence means being your self regardless of what

others think, plain and simple!!!!

In conclusion take some time and get things right in your own head. I used to

be totally different than who I am now. I have changed to someone I wanted to become by reframing and focussing on

what I wanted to be. I can tell you it's not a fun process and you probably will lose most of your friends, so make

sure it's what you want. People do this all this time for example someone who was in the drug scene heavy decides

to go clean. In the process their personality changes, as well as their habbit's and friends. I wasn't comfortable

in my own skin before but now I AM. Simply put: Until you love yourself, don't expect any one else to love ya. I

hope you read this with an open mind, cause I can tell ya I have walked miles in your shoes, but in the end it was

all worth it.:cheers:

[Marlboro_man]

Also, I forgot to say this

but it's real important. I don't always agree with what everyone on this site says but I always read it with an

open mind. I can tell you Bruce, Bel, and Oscar are very intelligent people and they are definitely worth listening

to, they don't talk just to talk, they think about what they say and care what they write. I can also say there

are many others on this forum (way too many to mention) that have tons of wisdom to share with you! Take Terry and

Geoggi for example in this post. I don't agree with every word they said, but they make some damn good points.

Best of luck to ya with this whole thing.

[terry0400-40]

Don't give me such crap. For the fortunate few

who can naturally attract women, it's easy to laugh at those to whom the nature hasn't given that gift. For us the

common mortals, the statements like the one quoted are an outright insult. If there is one surefire way to

devastating failure with women, it's by acting naturally and speaking honestly.
If all

that it takes is to be yourself, why do you think are all those people buying pheromones? Actually... I wonder what

are YOU doing in a pheromone forum? :-))Hi

magic, i really started out to see if there were any products around that could be good enough to withstand the

scrutiny of direct sales like face to face. and good enough to get repeat sales, unfortunately there are no magic

bullets around, erum khaaaaar excuse me just clearing my throat,as yet well not amoungst my

30 different products at least ha ha, so i havent found anything that i could resell like face to face because the

effects of pheromones are suttle and there are many people who are looking for smack bang her right now instant

results, besides Magic i am personally really only interested mainly in the social aspects of the use of pheromones,

and also experimentation of the sexual woman attraction side which is very interesting as excellent results can be

obtained with the right product application and under the correct conditions to match, Phero Masters usually serve

an apprenticeship so to speak before becoming sutch and i can assure you they certainly have to develope patience

and observation skills, Now let me tell you one thing, Most women love getting attention from confident, interesting

presentable gentlemen, preferably emmiting a nice exotic fragrance, and an intelligent woman can discern what is

true and what is crap in a mans presentation, they are usually good at discerning these things, However there are

always some women around who will ALLOW themselves to fall for anything, as sometimes they are desperate for a mans

company and or love, I know one thing for sure and that is a man does not have to pretend in order to attract a

girl, I have had so much attention from women when i have been homeless and walking the streets barefoot, i found

that so many just wanted to take me home and use me all up, there really is no accounting for taste. BUT we here are

only offering advice, we dont get paid for it, but some of us have been around the block a few times and we have

learned a few things on the way because we have learned by our mistakes TRIAL AND ERROR, SO drink

free of the waters of knowledge we have to offer, the choice is yours.And whatever we wish you the

utmost success in your endevours.:thumbsup:

[bronzie]

Great post terry, I dont think

anyone has ever summed this subject better than you, on this forum. Good stuff terry..

[terry0400-40]

Great post terry, I dont think anyone has ever summed this subject better than you, on this forum.

Good stuff terry.. Your very modest Bronzie, I have learned so much from you

Pheromasters and your advice has saved me wasting my money on lots of crap that is always around, it is a bit of an

honour really when i get an applaud from guys like yourself and Gegogi and Belgareth. I myself have only had around

100 different women and girls that i have picked up and scored with so i really am not so experienced when compared

with a pick up artist, but i can honestly say i would be just as happy had it only been a few, because when it all

boils down, TRUE LASTING ENDURING HAPPINESS CAN BE FOUND IN GIVING TRUE LOVE TO ONE WOMAN. what more does a

man need. AS its ( ALL IN THE MIND ) Nevertheless we have are toys our fun our associations and best

of all we have a friend or two.:rant:

[bronzie]

[FONT=Comic

Sans MS][COLOR=navy] I myself have only had around 100 different women and girls that i have picked up and scored

with so i really am not so experienced when compared with a pick up artist,

terry your older than me,

but 100 girls is pretty good by any persons standard i think, im aware that you have been hitched a few times too,

so you do have alot of experience under your belt with the fairer sex! hahaha, not saying that in the literal

sense!

maybe we should create a whole new post, seduction according to terry, or terry's method? :cheers:

[terry0400-40]

terry your older than me, but 100 girls is pretty good by any persons standard i think, im aware

that you have been hitched a few times too, so you do have alot of experience under your belt with the fairer sex!

hahaha, not saying that in the literal sense!

maybe we should create a whole new post, seduction according to

terry, or terry's method? :cheers:Under the belt ha ha, I never had much

luck when i just wanted to go out and fu*K a girl i usually just went home and had a spill ha ha. The times that i

always seemed to get sucess was when i sort of just see a girl somewhere and she just took my breath away and i ha

ha just fell for them as i was in their power and all i really wanted to do was really kiss them and hold them ever

so close with my heart beating so fast and my head spinning, it was when i ended up in this condition that i always

got the girl and they never ever settled for my kisses or cuddles which i was more than happy with as i was in LOVE

ha ha Those were the days, But I am in love with my wife right now and have been for over 10 years and our love is

always exciting fresh and above all else TRUE. REALLY it just keeps on getting better and that is how it is

meant to be.TRUE :thumbsup:

[Mohammad Shah]

Your very modest Bronzie, I have learned so much from you

Pheromasters and your advice has saved me wasting my money on lots of crap that is always around, it is a bit of an

honour really when i get an applaud from guys like yourself and Gegogi and Belgareth. I myself have only had around

100 different women and girls that i have picked up and scored with so i really am not so experienced when compared

with a pick up artist, but i can honestly say i would be just as happy had it only been a few, because when it all

boils down, TRUE LASTING ENDURING HAPPINESS CAN BE FOUND IN GIVING TRUE LOVE TO ONE WOMAN. what more does a

man need. AS its ( ALL IN THE MIND ) Nevertheless we have are toys our fun our associations and best

of all we have a friend or two.:rant:

wow!! 100 girls huh!

Terry!!http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif Some people are REALLY

blessed!!http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[terry0400-40]

wow!! 100 girls huh! Terry!!http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Some people are REALLY

blessed!!http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

I really think one would probably had been enough, it is just that it took so long for me to see the Truth, because

at the end when all is said and done it is not going to improve my spiritual wellbeing, hmmm well i dont really

think so, only in as much as i have learned a little, but it really is no big deal and if i had let it carry on

unchecked i could well have ended up with an addiction problem. So i am so happy that i have learned to love one

woman and care 4 her in any and every way which i am able. :angel:

[MagicPower]

Ease up [---] you're missing the point. Believe me, show me a poser and I'll

show you an unhappy man
I'm not sure you're getting my point either, so

I'll try to give you a comparison as simple as possible.

If a traffic cop

pulls me over for speeding (thank God, none ever has), there is something I want from him. That is, to get away

without a fine, or if that turns out to be impossible, with a fine as small as possible.



In order to reach that goal, it would be most stupid to act according to my true nature, that

is to tell him to stuff his stupid speed limits and that I drive as fast as I please and will continue to do so in

the future, and that I would like to beat the shit out of those bastards who keep screwing it up for hundreds of car

drivers by setting up absurd speed limits.

Neither am I going to make the

attempt of turning myself into a law-abiding citizen who never exceeds a speed limit. It would remove the danger of

getting speeding tickets, but I don't want to try and learn to approve of something that I detest from the bottom

of my heart – i.e. that some scum have the power to oblige other people to drive no faster than 70 km/h on a road

that can be safely driven with 100 km/h most of the time. And even if I tried to, it's not at all certain that I

would succeed to change myself into something so profoundly different from my current nature.



The only reasonable course of action would, in my opinion, be to try and explain (politely

enough to not irritate the cop) that I was not speeding, and if he insists that I did, say that I must have

forgotten to look at the speedometer and possibly pressed too hard on the accelerator for one moment, and I am very

sorry about this and I usually never violate traffic regulations and it will never happen again.



As to the long term strategy, it would be reasonable to improve my skill of noticing traffic

cops early enough, always warn other drivers of traffic cops on their way (so that they would be thankful and warn

me in the future), use whatever chances I might get to achieve changes in law etc, and well, yes, try to drive

slower whenever it's not too boring.

Now, back to dealing with the opposite

sex. As I naturally detest lying, pretending and deceiving (as it seems, more so than an average man), it's

understandable that when I was younger and naive, I stubbornly kept being myself and acting naturally with women (as

well as with everybody). After many years of painful disappointments, I learned that with women, it's not about

displaying who you are and what you want. It's all about playing the game. Impressions are everything. Of course,

as you try to display the image that would work best with women, you grow in the process yourself too, but to

suggest that every man can be successful with women by honestly displaying his true being, is obviously

absurd.

Oh, by the way, I've seen people achieve great success with outright

ridiculous posing which I could never pull off and which would be too disgusting for me to try and learn to do. As

to whether or not their happy, I have no idea. They tend to look very happy but I most certainly wish that they're

only acting.



Women can spot a poser in a

nanosecond.
It's a wide-spread belief among men that women can read you

like an open book. I could explain what this myth of women's superhuman intuition is all about, but firstly,

that's a bit longer story, secondly, I'm not sure you're the kind of person worth wasting my time on, and

thirdly, we're really getting off topic here. This is supposed to be a pheromone forum.

[MagicPower]

1)You over value the power of mones. They aren't

magic
I don't.

This is a pheromone

forum. So it is logical that on this forum, I ask questions about pheromones. I might have lots of questions about

other things, like where is the best online source for short non-offending jokes to tell to girls, but there are

other means for getting that information. I won't ask such questions on a pheromone forum because that's not what

a pheromone forum is for. It's as simple as that.

I never intended to turn

this thread into a discussion of my peronality. If you care to look at the beginning once more, you'll notice that

I asked quite a specific question about pheromones. That's what I hoped to get an answer to. I don't mind getting

other information on the way, but I'd rather avoid infesting Love-Scent's website and disk space with discussions

that have got nothing to do with pheromones.

If a friend said there was a

funny sound in his car's engine and did you have an idea what it could be, would you start telling him that you

think his coat is too warm for this weather and maybe he'd be happier if he'd wear something

lighter?

And everybody, please do not start posting URL-s for online sources

of short non-offending jokes to tell girls. :-)



They

aren't magic (sorry for the word choice
Sorry? Take it easy, man. Do

Americans really take offense so easily? Well, yes, they do, I know.





Girls tend to be more relationship driven while men tend to be more sex

driven, especially when younger.
Oh, thank you so much! What would the

world be like without guys like you?

I'll tell you a secret, too – girls

don't have a dick! That's why they have to sit on a toilet to pee. A friend told me just

yesterday.



3)You seem to be trying to follow the

footsteps of someone like david D
Sorry, who? DeAngelo? Hell, no, not

him.

Seriously, I don't try to follow anybody's footsteps. That would be

foolish as every person is different. That's what some of the previous posters don't seem to be able to realise.

They seem to believe that what has worked for them will work for everyone.





You are trying to be someone you are not and therefore it causes you to

fail with the ladies on dates. [---] Confidence means being your self regardless of what others think, plain and

simple!!!!
You are dead wrong. But I guess my previous post answers

that.

He who has born with wings can fly on his own wings and can afford to

sneer at those who have to pay for an airplane ticket in order to fly. Or to bring a more earthly comparison – for

me, a person who needs a calculator to add up two four-digit numbers looks like a near-hopeless idiot. But I

understand that people are born with different abilities and I am far from suggesting that everybody should always

do arithmetics mentally instead of using calculators.

[terry0400-40]

I'm not sure you're getting my point either, so I'll try to give you a

comparison as simple as possible.

If a traffic cop pulls me over for speeding

(thank God, none ever has), there is something I want from him. That is, to get away without a fine, or if that

turns out to be impossible, with a fine as small as possible.

In order to

reach that goal, it would be most stupid to act according to my true nature, that is to tell him to stuff his stupid

speed limits and that I drive as fast as I please and will continue to do so in the future, and that I would like to

beat the shit out of those bastards who keep screwing it up for hundreds of car drivers by setting up absurd speed

limits.

Neither am I going to make the attempt of turning myself into a

law-abiding citizen who never exceeds a speed limit. It would remove the danger of getting speeding tickets, but I

don't want to try and learn to approve of something that I detest from the bottom of my heart – i.e. that some scum

have the power to oblige other people to drive no faster than 70 km/h on a road that can be safely driven with 100

km/h most of the time. And even if I tried to, it's not at all certain that I would succeed to change myself into

something so profoundly different from my current nature.

The only reasonable

course of action would, in my opinion, be to try and explain (politely enough to not irritate the cop) that I was

not speeding, and if he insists that I did, say that I must have forgotten to look at the speedometer and possibly

pressed too hard on the accelerator for one moment, and I am very sorry about this and I usually never violate

traffic regulations and it will never happen again.

As to the long term

strategy, it would be reasonable to improve my skill of noticing traffic cops early enough, always warn other

drivers of traffic cops on their way (so that they would be thankful and warn me in the future), use whatever

chances I might get to achieve changes in law etc, and well, yes, try to drive slower whenever it's not too

boring.

Now, back to dealing with the opposite sex. As I naturally detest

lying, pretending and deceiving (as it seems, more so than an average man), it's understandable that when I was

younger and naive, I stubbornly kept being myself and acting naturally with women (as well as with everybody). After

many years of painful disappointments, I learned that with women, it's not about displaying who you are and what

you want. It's all about playing the game. Impressions are everything. Of course, as you try to display the image

that would work best with women, you grow in the process yourself too, but to suggest that every man can be

successful with women by honestly displaying his true being, is obviously absurd.Every woman is unique and has a unique image in her head as to what she wants its all in

her head as some women always fall for bums, some really love a more efiminate sort of guy some like rough types

some go for smooth rough, some rough rough, or smooth sofisticated, or sofisticated rough, or rough alpha, or rough

macho, or smooth macho, or wimpy sofisticated, or wimpy and sexy, some tall dark and handsome, some love a bald

head, others love mostaches, some like hairy legs some like big talkers, others like quite talkers so they can do

more talking, some like casual smart, some like smart smart, some like cheeky men or rude men some love jerks and

i could go on 4 years , Because there is no accounting 4 taste, OH I FORGOT some really like

a down to earth genuine nice guy someone who can stand alone and be what he wants to be, so one earth man is not

going to be the choice of every woman and unless you know exactly what a woman is looking for in a man when you

first approach her then who is you gonna be then, unless they put out a pheromone called INSTANT

EVERYWOMANS MAN.

Oh, by the way, I've seen people achieve

great success with outright ridiculous posing which I could never pull off and which would be too disgusting for me

to try and learn to do. As to whether or not their happy, I have no idea. They tend to look very happy but I most

certainly wish that they're only acting.



It's a wide-spread belief

among men that women can read you like an open book. I could explain what this myth of women's superhuman intuition

is all about, but firstly, that's a bit longer story, secondly, I'm not sure you're the kind of person worth

wasting my time on, and thirdly, we're really getting off topic here. This is supposed to be a pheromone

forum.Magicpower i have probably missed your point

completly as usual, in that case i have shown you and the world how stupid i can be, and apparently there is no

excuse for stupidity but do i look like i give a rats, anyway i have only seen one perfect person in the last 55

years. :frustrate you must have a hard head terry, no actually it only feels

hard because the wall is so soft.:angel:

[Gegogi]

Mr. Magic obviously you're an

intelligent man, but you do realize most of us have tried to help you with our best advice--advice that has worked

for us. However, being the best you can be isn't acting nor is it dishonest. It's you enhanced. So you've tried

everything and nothing has worked? None of us knows you and obviously there is something more at play here than you

let on or any of us can understand. All of us have been there at one time--a failure with women or society in

general. I needed to pull myself up by my bootstraps many a time, move on and better myself (that didn't include

faking a more masculine character). It's an endless learning process. Social success--including mating rituals and

coupling--isn't the result of a simple cut 'n dry formula. It's an ever evolving dance and you must adapt for

every situation.

Also, we all have flaws, some very glaring ones at that. However success comes from a sum

of the whole. If you fall short in one area you can compensate in another where you excel. I know a very attractive

nurse that fell in love with a man paralyzed from the chest down (diving accident). Since she was a friend, I asked

what could possibly be attractive about him? He was once an athletic guy but was soft and shapeless. He had tubes

running in his body. Her rely was his honestly, love of life and never give up fighting spirit. She truly admired

his strength of character, something apparently in short supply among menfolk. Women are not usually attracted to

quitters, bitterness or a poor attitude.

Nevertheless, perhaps a few dabs of NPA or PI will help impart more

of the alpha dude vibe for ya.

[SwingerMD]

MagicPower,

There is a

lot a good advice here in this thread from a lot of different points of view.

Yes "being yourself" is not all

what it takes, neither is wearing the right mone at the right time, saying the right thing at the right time,

dressing right, or even looking fit . . . it is all of these together as a whole.

I remembered when I first

started out with SOE. I was noticing a lot of chatty people around me and nothing else. One day I decided to test

out a theory I had out on a bus. I wore my iPod with the white earbuds on the bus to the University with no volume

so that I can listen in to people's rxns with them thinking that I was busy listening to my music.
About 1/2 to

the University this 18 yr old blonde got on to the bus and walked passed me with her brunette friend (same age).

Right after she passed me I heard her exclaim, "Oh, my God! He smells so good that I . . . ." Needless to say I was

quite floored by her rxn.

With that in mind, the next person that I sat next to on the bus (the next day) I

struck up a conversation with her. My way in was that I noticed that, "Hey isn't that the new Biology series

edition . . . .?" Had a pleasent conversation with her but forgot to get her number. Next time I went out with SOE

I got a number . . . and so on . . . and so on.

Anyhow remember not to toss out conversation skills, looks,

personality when using mones. "Being yourself" is a very easy and comfortable thing to do and it is genuinely YOU.

In the end you want to hook up with someone that wants you for who you are.

-SwingerMD

[Marlboro_man]

Magic,
It's clear to me

that you feel you know more than everyone else around here, so I don't know why you ask for advice. It's also

clear that you feel mones are some amazing cure for your lack of personality that you have distributed by

continually attacking everyone in this post. I apologize for my inability to understand what you are trying to say,

because it's obvious that other's and myself don't understand your communications.
I will no longer respond to

this thread as I now realize how much of my time that I have already wasted on it, but I wish you a lot of luck in

figuring out what it takes to become a man worth being more than a friend in the ladies eyes.

[MagicPower]

It's clear to me that you feel you know more than everyone else around

here, so I don't know why you ask for advice. It's also clear that you feel mones are some amazing cure for your

lack of personality
I have realised that this forum is a complete waste

of my time. I ask a specific question about certain effects of pheromones, and all I get is a bunch of snags trying

their best to convince me that pheromones are useless.

One last thing. If

someone's actions contradict his words, I believe his actions, not his words. If you don't believe in pheromones,

what are you doing on this website? If a guy who claims he has managed to seduce a hundred women is telling the

truth, what does he need pheromones for? Think about it.

I will leave this

thread now, too. You can go on writing about whatever's on your mind and let out steam on me, but I won't be

reading it, as it's near certain that nothing you'll say will bear any connection to the question I

asked.

[Gegogi]

Mr. Magic, if your attitude and

forum behavior are any indication of your discourses with women, one can easily see why you have difficulties. It

has nothing to do with being too masculine or not masculine enough. I'm afraid fews dabs of NPA and/or SOE will

only serve to enhance and project your narcissism and negativity.


If a guy who claims he has managed

to seduce a hundred women is telling the truth, what does he need pheromones for? Think about

it.

Obviously most of us have thought about it a great more than you. Pheromones are a powerful

enhancer of one's persona for all human social activity. I mainly use it on the job as "social lube." Getting laid

is actually the least useful thing about 'mones. Think about it, we socialize all day at work, school, home and

neighborhoods. Being liked and maintaining good relationships with coworkers, students, family and neighbors is your

most important asset. And those social contacts also mean you'll have ample opportunities to foster romance as

well. No friends or good relations with coworkers and neighbors? Very likely no nookie

either...

Incidentally, no pheromone will do much to make you appear masculine or feminine. That's totally

up to you, e.g., how you talk, carry yourself, dress, physical condition, etc. As I wrote earlier, pheromones simply

enhance traits already present. Because of that I avoid wearing pheromones if depressed or angry--the bad vibe gets

out just as easily as a good one. You project your best and it gets amped up. Do nothing and nothing happens.



People here only wanted to help you. Good luck my friend.

[terry0400-40]

I have realised that this forum is a complete waste of my time.

I ask a specific question about certain effects of pheromones, and all I get is a bunch of snags trying their best

to convince me that pheromones are useless.

One last thing. If someone's

actions contradict his words, I believe his actions, not his words. If you don't believe in pheromones, what are

you doing on this website? If a guy who claims he has managed to seduce a hundred women is telling the truth, what

does he need pheromones for? Think about it.

I will leave this thread now,

too. You can go on writing about whatever's on your mind and let out steam on me, but I won't be reading it, as

it's near certain that nothing you'll say will bear any connection to the question I

asked.I am sure i am speaking 4 all who have tried to

help you here as sure as i know that you are reading this even if you dont reply. As any one of us can very easily

and simply go out right now and seduce a woman quick and easy pickup and lay, with or without juice on anytime,

really Magic this is no big deal, its not an issue really, 4 us pheromone exploration is a very social and also a

fun activity because it is so very interesting to see the many various reactions caused by our particular

signatures, in each case it is unique even as we are, really its all just so much good fun vibration sort of thing

and that is why we post, because we have this wonderfull medium in common ( Pheromones ) that

we share and also can empathise with. nuf said sea ya. terry0400-40

[Mr. Happy]

MagicPower I have to

say, your attitude sucks. Until that changes no amount of pheromones will help you.

[Mungojerry]

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

[terry0400-40]

Magic: I do not agree with everything you say... especially with regard to the validity of

speed limits [though I recognise the point you were using this example to make]!

However, in my assessment

people in this thread have given you an unneccessarily hard time. This is not to sat that some good advice has not

been given, for it most certainly has; however, I disagree that your attitude is fundamentally worse that others on

this forum. Given, that, in my view, the arguments you make are logical and the questions you ask intelligent in

some ways I would actually commend your attitude as superior to lots of other people's.

However, I digress.



Firstly, the "being youself" advice is not something that I personally agree with. I fully recognising faking can

often, [though not always as you rightly point out] be unproductive; however, this is not to say it is possible to

change youself, i.e. to grow as a person and become a new you.

The peson I am now is different to the person I

was 5 years ago. Events, ideas and peer groups alter who you are. They alter your emotions towards things, they

alter your thought patterns, they alter your outlook.

Through careful use of rigourous thought about the

fundamental assumptions of your beliefs, exposure of yourself to new situations, NLP/Hypnosis, sometimes fake acting

a certain way until it becomes natural, you can consciously alter this direction. This is no bad thing.

People

can be bad and/or unsuccessful - they can and in the first case probably should change. None of us are perfect and

we can all grow and become better people. It is my view that none of us should be too attached to "who we are" - we

should be instead attached to the idea of becoming good people and becoming successful people.

Many people will

also be able to incorperate different behaviour patterns into thier lives without needing to change anything radical

able their mental attitude. Some "Seduction Techniques" fall into this category. Just because you have always done

something a particular way does not mean that behaviour pattern is integral to your personality.

Secondly, I

agree that it is probably not the pheromones that are your problem, it is more something about your

behaviour/attitude that is at fault [where reaching the specific goal of bedding women is concerned at least]



Thirdly, I agree that "kino" is one good way forward. I don't do it much myself, but i've seen it work well for

others.

Personally I like to slowly escalate some key kino. The most important of these is for me is holding

hands. If she is laughing with me, has good body language towards me i'll simply take her hand. If she doesn't

pull away i'll hold it for a bit, then let go.

This is an indicator of her attraction towards me, but also

serves as a gentle non-verbal understanding that you are interested in her in a sexual way.

Personally I would

also:

- Verbally tease them [gently at first, more if they react well]. - If done well this is very powerful.



- Make sure that at no point was I paying for their attention, i.e. I would not supplicate them, offer to pay

for drinks, do favours for them etc. This I ensures that the only reason they were being around me was because they

liked me in some way! Its a good filter.

- Show my preferences, e.g. not just agree with them because I was

trying to curry favour, but tell them when I disagree or don't want to do something straight up.

- Make the

decisions & show that i'm not a puppy dog by not following them around. e.g. At a museum, i'll go to which

exhibits interest me and not just try to stand next to her all the time.

- Hold an attitude of abundance that

if she isn't intersted in you, then it will not affect your happiness at all. You will have a million and one more

bites at the cherry or at the very least you are happy being single. This way she will not feel leant upon, nor be

expected to be a prop of your own mental neediness. It will also remind you to focus on your preferences which puts

you in the position of the selector.

- Perhaps most importantly, be comfortable with your ability to handle

things if thing go sexual. Knowing how to have nice sex and not being uneasy about being crap in bed is gold dust.



I could go on, but its late and i'm tired!

Fourtly, and in regard to your original post, I'd say it is

not a dictomoy of too masculine to not masculine enough. I'd more specifically put it as a OD for your target

population, which may have a complex relationship with your personality and your personal sensitivity to what you

are wearing.

As AE seems to work for you i'd simply tone down the dose, or introduce some -none mitigator such

as AI, couplins or additional nol. GREAT POSTING Mungojerry, you certainly

have some positive flair for this, just appreciate your style and intelligence thats all, as it will be of benefit

no doubt. :wave: :angel:

[Mungojerry]

ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[MagicPower]

I thought I would never post again in this forum. Meanwhile I have, however, calmed

down and I feel that this discussion has left important questions unanswered by me, and my leaving like this might

make people think that I didn't know what to say, or even that I felt I had been proven wrong. As those assumptions

would be incorrect, I thought I'd post this article to try and clear some things up. I don't know whether or not

the moderator will delete it, but I have no influence on that, so I won't worry about

it.
At the time I am posting this, I really believe (again) that this will be my

last post ever to this forum. So I won't be reading your feedback, which, of course, doesn't mean that you

couldn't post it here for your own pleasure.
Neither did I bother to read your

replies to my last post.

First thing to be cleared up is my suggestion that

the guy (I've forgotten who) who claimed to have had sex with more than hundred women was

lying.
My saying that was a deliberate insult. Actually, I rather believe him.

Obviously, there's no way I could ever know for sure how many women he has had sex with, but if I had to bet

everything I own on whether he's telling the truth or lying, I would bet that he's telling the truth. I was just

fed up with him, so I chose to insult him. I'm not going to apologize because I think he deserved

it.
What I still can't understand, however, is what is he doing in this forum.

If he seduced his 100 women before he began using pheromones, what does he need pheromones for? If he seduced his

100 women after he began using pheromones, how can he say that pheromones can't get you laid?


My best explanation (which I admit, is nothing but a shot in the dark) is that

he used to be a natural master seducer but has gotten old meanwhile and needs some artificial aid to remain

attractive.
By the way, I believe the reason why master seducers turn monogamous

is because of their physical ability to have sex that naturally diminishes with age has reach a critical point at

which they think it's better to settle down with one woman. They won't admit it, of course, instead they try to

explain it with love and such. But I'm drifting off the topic, sorry.

Now to

the last post I read, about me believing to know everything better than everybody

else.
I most definitely don't believe to know everything better than anybody

else. In fact, there are lots and lots of things I know way too little about.


However, although there are many things I don't know, there are some things

that I do know for certain. For example:
1. I know that when I touch a hot iron,

it hurts. I know it for certain because I have done it. So if somebody claims that when I touch a hot iron, it

won't hurt, I know that he's not telling the truth, and if he insists upon that advice, I have every right to tell

him to stop bothering me with such obvious nonsense.
2. I know that when I jump

into the water, I get wet. I know it for certain because I have done it many times. So if somebody claims that when

I jump into the water, I won't get wet, I know that he's not telling the truth, and if he insists upon that

advice, I have every right to tell him to stop bothering me with such obvious

nonsense.
3. I know that I can't get women into bed by being myself and acting

naturally. I know it for certain because I have tried it many times. So if somebody claims that I can get women into

bed by being myself and acting naturally, I know that he's not telling the truth, and if he insists upon that

advice, I have every right to tell him to stop bothering me with such obvious

nonsense.
It seems that some people have missed a very important point here. When

you say that I can be successful with women by acting according to my true nature, and I say it's not true, I am

not saying that nobody can do it. I am merely saying that I can't do it. Why on Earth do you keep insisting that I

can do something which I know I can't do? I know what I'm saying from my long time first hand experience. Where

are you supposed to know the opposite from?

It really feels stupid to repeat

something as obvious as this over and over, but some of you just don't seem to get it, so I'm gonna say it again.

A strategy that works for one person, doesn't necessarily work for another. I have tried to explain several times

what I mean, but I don't seem to be able to get the message through. I will try one last

time.
Among all the men on Earth, there are those naturally more attractive to

women, and there are those naturally less attractive to women (just like there are taller and smaller people,

stronger and weaker people, people with a good vision and people with a poor vision, people who are good at mental

arithmetics and people who aren't good at mental arithmetics etc.). The more attractive men don't have to make any

conscious effort in order to get laid. They can just go through life being themselves and acting naturally, and

women will want them, because they are attractive. The less attractive men, if they acted naturally, would have to

settle for fewer women, less attractive women (that is, women who aren't good enough for the attractive guys and

thus have to go for the less attractive guys, although they'd still prefer the attractive guys) or, in extreme

cases, go without sex for their entire lives. If that fate is unacceptable to them, they have to either try and

change themselves in order to become more attractive (like by exercising, getting rich, becoming actors), or use

artificial means to appear more attractive (like by posing or using

pheromones).
So while very attractive men can get women into bed by being

themselves and acting naturally, less attractive men can't. I can't put it any plainer than this.



At this point, I realise that I haven't been quite precise with what I said a couple of

paragraphs earlier. You see, strictly speaking, I have actually not tried to get women into bed by acting according

to my true nature. If I really acted according to my true nature, I would upon sight of a pretty woman go to her and

say: "I don't want to to go out on a date with you. I'm not interested in talking to you. I don't even want to

know what your name is. I just want to fuck you right now." Heck, I wouldn't even tell her that. I would simply

tell her to follow me, take her to a private place, then tell her to strip naked, and then I'd fuck

her.
You still think that I would get laid acting according to my true nature? Of

course I wouldn't. The above strategy is so obviously stupid that I have never ever even tried it. But there were

times when I acted with women as much as possible in accordance with my true nature, and were reasonably honest with

them – that is by telling them that I like them and I'd like to spend more time with them and get to know them

better. I assure you (and I guess I already did earlier in this thread) that this is the surefire way to devastating

failure. I know it from repeated first hand experience.

That is why I, in

spite of my meager experience (only 16 sex partners so far; yes, all of them were adult human females), feel

entitled to tell you to stuff your nonsense advice that the way to get laid is by being yourself and acting

naturally.

It might be difficult for a very attractive man to understand how

come others have difficulties getting women. He might be wondering: "Hey, what's wrong with you guys? Why do you

keep wasting your money on seduction books or pheromones? Why don't you just go out on a street and walk around

minding your own business. Women will then approach you and you just pick whom you want." Or, if they're a bit less

attractive, they might say: "Don't bother with all those seduction books and pheromones. Just take a good shave and

go to the women and talk to them and smile and they will come to bed with you. I do this all the time, so why don't

you?" Just recently I read a newspaper interview with a guy who told how he has had sex with dozens of women and had

never had to buy as much as one flower. Surely you all have heard about (or even know) men who have bunches of women

running after them. And surely you have observed that the overwhelming majority of men aren't that fortunate. They

have to play the game, go through the frustrating courting rituals, pretend that they enjoy going out on

dates...
Do I hear voices of protest? Are you trying to tell me that you actually

like going out on dates? You are lying. To prove that, let me ask you the following simple

question.
If there was a pretty girl you had never had sex with before, and you

were given the following two choices:
1. To go out on a date with her, and after

that, if you both so wish, have sex with her.
2. To have sex with her, and after

that, if you both so wish, go out on a date with her.
Which one of the two would

you choose?
How many men do you think would choose the first option? I don't

mean when answering a hypothetical question in front of a TV camera, with their wives listening. I mean, if it was

for real, and nobody would know? You must admit that you'd be hard pressed to find a man who'd pick the choice #1.



Now, please don't get me wrong. I am not about to start lamenting how the

world is unfair and why do we have to do what women want. No, with the above example I am merely demonstrating that

when you claim to be yourselves and act naturally with women, the overwhelming majority of you is lying. Each time

when you go to a girl you haven't fucked yet and tell her that you would like to go out on a date with her, you are

not acting according to your true nature. What you really want is to have sex with her. You pretend that your

intentions are something else than what they really are. You play the game because you are, for various reasons, not

supposed to say to women directly what you want from them. It's all right to do that but that's definitely not

what I'd call being yourself and acting naturally.

By the way, your claim

that you believe that being yourself is the way to success with women, is further proved wrong by your buying and

using pheromones. If I could get women into bed by being myself and acting naturally, I would impossibly waste as

much as one hour of my time on a subject like pheromones, not to mention spending money on them. Your being on this

website means that you are trying to be more successful with women by appearing a different kind of person then you

are. After all, that's what using pheromones is all about – sending out chemical signals that make women

subconsciously believe that you are something that you really aren't.

It

therefore puzzles me greatly to find people here as well as in other pheromone forums who apparently have much

experience with pheromones, and who report their sometimes amazing sexual successes, and still try to discourage

other people from using pheromones.
I could understand if people who post in ASF

would fiercely insist that pheromones couldn't possibly get you laid. After all, they have developed a

mind-blowingly complicated, near-esoteric system of rituals which they claim to be absolutely necessary in order to

seduce women. Of course, they can't accept the idea that someone can simply wear some fragrance that costs less

than 100 USD and achieve what they have achieved through years of rigorous learning and

practice.
I could also understand when pheromones were being bashed in a

discussion in an online newspaper or a general interest forum. Such a discussion would involve different kinds of

people, some of which would oppose pheromones simply because they would think that using them is immoral, so they

would insist that they can't possibly work.
However, a pheromone forum is not a

place that is frequented by the general public. Most people don't know what the word "pheromone" means. In a

pheromone forum, one would expect to meet people who are interested in pheromones, and at least open to the

possibility that they can do what they are claimed to do. It's beyond my comprehension why do so many active

pheromone users insist that pheromones won't get you laid? And if they believe in what they are saying, why on

Earth do they obviously keep buying them? I wouldn't waste good money on something that just makes people somewhat

friendlier.
At my current state of knowledge, I can only come up with two

possible explanations for such strange behaviour.
1. They have tried a product or

two which haven't worked, so they try to discourage other guys from using any pheromones, because they get envious

at the thought that the others might achieve the success that they haven't achieved. (This is the same phenomenon

as with people who practice crap martial arts and claim that no martial art is good for defending yourself on the

street. They say it because they know that their art is no good for defending oneself on the street and they can't

accept the thought that they have chosen a martial art that is no good.)
2. They

have found a product that works and want to keep their competitive edge by preventing other guys from finding out

the secret. In that case, however, trashing pheromones in general is not the best strategy. It would be more

efficient to post fake success reports claiming that a crap product is actually good, so that other guys would buy

it and get disappointed and begin to think that all pheromones are crap. If a guy has found a pheromone that works,

and keeps insisting that no pheromones are any good, the other guys might get suspicious (like I did) as to why he

wants to waste his time spreading that message.
So, the first explanation is more

likely. But I'll go on investigating.

I don't even try to find any

explanation to a guy who runs a pheromone shop advising me to smile and just be myself, instead of placing any hopes

on pheromones. Things couldn't really get any weirder than that.

Now, what

this discussion actually started from was my asking a question which I could rephrase as follows: how can I tell

whether a woman considers me not masculine enough and thus not worth her interest, or too masculine and thus too

scary for her to show her interest.
None of you has answered that question or

made any attempts to answer it. None of you has even suggested that there is something wrong with that question,

except bluntly stating the obvious nonsense that I shouldn't care what the women think of me, I just should be

myself and I would get everything I wanted.
You have displayed the stupid

attitude typical to many men that goes like this: "I can't answer his question, but as a man, I can't admit that I

don't know the answer to a question. I therefore give him some other advice which I believe to be useful, even if

it bears no connection to his question. Or if I can't think of any useful advice, I'll just blurt out the first

thing that comes into my mind."
Such attitude is actually right with women you

are trying to impress. In order for the women to consider you masculine, it's more important to always have a quick

answer than to have the right answers. However, in an online discussion among guys, such attitude is out of place,

to say nothing of pathetic. By speaking nonsense confidently, you might fool some stupid chicks but you won't fool

me. If there is a concrete question and you don't know the answer, or you're even too stupid to understand what

the question is, why don't you just press the "back" button and open the next thread?



Well, as I said, I won't be reading your replies, as I have better things to do with my time

than arguing with the kinds of you. As this forum doesn't support private messages, you probably won't be able to

contact me and get me to read your rants, but I can live with that. This discussion has taught me that it's

pointless to discuss pheromones with other people (at least on this website). I'll just have try things out on

myself, which is what I am doing, every day.

[koolking1]

Magic, you seem to

like analogies, here's one for you.

You go to the Doctor because you are sick. The Dr writes you a

prescription that is going to make you hopefully feel better (mones). The Dr also says to you: "Magic, you should

also get more rest and drink plenty of fluids (good advice to enhance the effect of the prescription). In other

words, the drug (mones) will likely work but it will work better if you take some other advice along with it).



You said: "At this point, I realise that I haven't been quite precise with what I said a couple of

paragraphs earlier. You see, strictly speaking, I have actually not tried to get women into bed by acting according

to my true nature. If I really acted according to my true nature, I would upon sight of a pretty woman go to her and

say: "I don't want to to go out on a date with you. I'm not interested in talking to you. I don't even want to

know what your name is. I just want to fuck you right now."

Well, guess what? I've tried that technique

(only twice) and it worked both times. Go figure.

You having been sexually with 16 women is not bad, many

guys on here might envy you that. I certainly don't know the actual numbers but I would guess that some rather

large percentage of the world's male population has either never been with a women at all or only one women. You

could save up your cash by not going out with "regular women" and just getting a hooker or two per month. That

seems more your style and if you go that route, I'd go heavy on the .none products. You could easily add 12-24 new

women annually!!!

I'd say "best o' luck" to you but you would find that to be annoying, no?

[tounge]

Magic, I won't be so nice.

Basically you're a pig. You, by your own posts. think of women as sex objects. As you think, so will you

become.

You don't believe a man can settle down with one women and be happy? You're full of it. Love exists

and blessed are those that find it.

You yourself admit, that if you could just meet a chick and skip the

dating process and just fuck her for your own selfish gratification, that's the way it would be. Yes, there are a

lot of guys like you, and that is unfortunate. And thankfully, the women you have been with lately, see through you

and probably enjoy frustrating the hell out of you and enjoy knowing, that a pig like you, will never touch their

charms.

[visual999]

Magic, am I correct that you

drink a lot of coffee or caffeinated beverages? Or you're very young... 20,21? If it's the coffee, cut down on it,

none (AE) + coffee = not good.

I've been using pheros for 7 years or so and I've had the reactions you've

described with both none and nol. And also awesome reactions with both.

I probably have the best testing

grounds available and I still don't know what works "the best" and what doesn't, sometimes SoE makes girls start

rubbing their booty against me, othertimes it makes them run away from me (maybe it's a tacti they use?)

The

best advice I can give is to keep testing and always remember:

Each woman is different and all women are crazy.

;)

[WorkingMann]

Each woman is different and all women are crazy. ;)


So true...! :cheers:

[marina1]

Sometimes, a pheromone product makes girls appear

completely uninterested in me (the invisible man effect).

When girls

pay no attention to me or even walk away from me, it can mean two things.


It could mean that I don't appear masculine enough, i.e. women don't

consider me a prospective mate. If that were the case, I would need to try a more sexual-type

pheromone.
On the other hand, it could mean that I appear too masculine

and threatening. If that were the case, I should use a more fiendly-type pheromone.



How can I tell which way it is? What signs should I look out for, in order to be able to

tell whether a pheromone product makes me appear not masculine enough or too

masculine?


I think you are more or less mistaken, women seem to pay attention

to other stuff, not only (if at all) how much masculine you *look*, but also how you behave, but socially and in

your life.

mones speaking, yesterday was really weird, I've been aplying too much PI, purposedly ODing to see

what effect arises, tell you, people would not sit besided me on the bus and girls were behaving strange.

from

what I can gather you need to find a middle line, you need both look approachable and creat sexual tension.




After many years of painful disappointments, I learned that with women, it's not about

displaying who you are and what you want.

funny, I learned to other way around, after I

stopped playing the pretender things started to get better around women, and life.

I won't lecture you, but if

you want do a google on Michael Pilinski, author of a book called
Without Embarrassment.
It's not NLP stuff, but

it did open my eyes to a lot of things that were wrong in my approach to women.

[gaf]

wow,
don't know what else to

say...

[Superman]

So i am so happy that i have learned to love one woman

and care 4 her in any and every way which i am able. :angel:
:goodpost:
I hope to find

that one woman myself, phermones may help me I think... but it's only part of the equation.

[Baco]

Most people who posted in this

thread seem to forget a few things..Any talk about how to act and not act in front of women in general is more or

less a waste of time, IMO.This due the the simple fact that we are all different.Some like vanilla, some like

chocolate.To say that women usually prefer the alpha type of guy is a big over-generalisement.I know tons of

women(many of them good lookin and sexy) that simply feel intimidated by this type of guy.They consider the alpha

guy to be mostly all muscle and no brain, shallow in personality, and in the worst case ; some kind of a brute.A guy

like that would need to ACT friendly, warm, deep, intelligent and considerate.He would after a small while however

see that this acting is not leading at a great length to anywhere : sooner or later, women WILL pick up on the fact

that he is ACTING..
My take on this whole thread is that we should recognize there is a BIG difference between

ACTING natural and BEING natural. If you can honestly be your natural self there won't be any need for acting.If

you can't be your natural self around women successfully, then that only shows you need to work on your

personality.This doesn't mean acting something you're not ; it simply means developing your personality, growing

as a human being and challenging your old ways of thinking for new ones ;
and as you do that, the change in your

BEING fill follow almost automatically, and women WILL notice. IMHO

[belgareth]

Baco,

Well said and

correct, IMO. Good post.

[koolking1]

"Some like

vanilla, some like chocolate"

Some like both!!!!