Androgel?

[Todd Spango]

Hello all.
I've been

reading the board for a few weeks now and have used the search feature extensively. Thus far I've been unable to

find the answer to my question. So, now that I'm allowed to post, I'll ask it directly.

My friend was

prescribed Androgel for low Test. levels. Upon applying it his wife noticed that the smell really turned her on. I

was wondering what,
other than Testosterone, is in the gel to have that effect? Is it just the Test.? Is there a

product that can duplicate that effect?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

TS

[Todd Spango]

26 views and no replies?

[Bruce]

Never heard of it, but it sounds

like a prescription drug, no?

B

[Todd Spango]

Yes, it's a transdermal

Testosterone gel available by prescription only.

It was his(my friend's) wife's reaction to it, as well as my

wife's commenting on it, that led me to think there was something to this "Pheromone thing".

I've seen

Androgel mentioned on this forum, but no mention of it's pheromone-like properties.

I was hoping that someone

here would know about it.

Thanks,
TS

[jvkohl]

I've seen

Androgel mentioned on this forum, but no mention of it's pheromone-like properties.

The only

associated smell is rather medicinal, most likely due to its 67% ethanol inactive ingredient. A preliminary study

with a very small number of men showed increased testosterone when smelling an ethanol control. Since an increase in

luteinizing hormone typically preceeds an increase in testosterone, either in men or in women, she might be

responding positively to the ethanol--in a manner similar to the effect of androstenol on luteinizing hormone (and

associated affect on mood.)

The testosterone content, in and of itself, is unlikely to have a pheromonal

affect--as so far as is currently known the most likely suspected human pheromones are metabolites of testosterone.



JVK

[Todd Spango]

JVK,
Thanks for the

reply.
Would Androstenol be the pheromone most likely to reproduce the effect? or are there other variables?

[jvkohl]

JVK,
Thanks

for the reply.
Would Androstenol be the pheromone most likely to reproduce the

effect?

Yes.

QUOTE=Todd Spango] or are there other variables?[/QUOTE]

The most notable

variables include menstrual cycle phase in women, but also the likely hormone effect to behavioral affect link,

which includes many more variables. Simply put, once the luteinizing hormone (LH) response is conditioned to

androstenol, any other associated odor or other sensory stimulus from the social environment can evoke the same

response. For example the association with androstenol evoked change in LH indicates that the odor (perceived or

not) of androsterone could elicit positive behavioral affects on women--especially during their ovulatory phase of

the cycle.

This does not however mean that an odor (perceived or not) must be associated with the response.

It could well be that visual stimuli could have the same behavioral affect--once the visual response has been

conditioned by olfactory/pheromonal input. This is detailed in my forthcoming review, which is laden with

neuroscientific jargon. Hopefully, some science journalist will take advantage of the opportunity to translate the

details into something more people can understand.

Based on a recent presentation, where audience members

did grasp the concept, I'm getting closer to a better understanding by all. But current non-"Scent of Eros" product

marketing continues to obscure the facts.

JVK

[Todd Spango]

I think I understand what

you're saying. Sounds like a variant of Pavlov's Dogs. Condition/response?

[maxo-texas]

Androgel is a testosterone

supplement gel.

It's by prescription.

It's very possible that the woman can smell the testosterone amid the

alchohol or after it drys.

[jvkohl]

It's very

possible that the woman can smell the testosterone amid the alchohol or after it drys.

I've seen

nothing in the literature about either an effect of smelling testosterone on hormones or an affect on behavior. Do

you know of any hypothesis that suggests such a possibility?

JVK

[maxo-texas]

Other than this data point

no.

But androgel is teste and alcohol.

If the lady is clearly aroused by it then either it's some random

placebo affect, some odd reaction to alcohol (which could be tested by applying alcohol without testosterone) or, by

simple reduction, it's the testosterone.

We know men can't smell none. I know of my 4 current girlfriends that

3 react weakly to mones (except all talky/relaxed under SOE) but one has reacted strongly.

I don't find it

implausible that some percentage of the female population would react to men with high testosterone

levels.

---

I'm discounting testosterone byproducts since she is apparently reacting to it clearly when it is

fresh rather than hours later.

[jvkohl]

If the lady

is clearly aroused by it then either it's some random placebo affect, some odd reaction to alcohol (which could be

tested by applying alcohol without testosterone) or, by simple reduction, it's the

testosterone.

Data support the most likely conclusion: it's the alcohol, which acts in a manner

similar to pheromones (e.g., by effects on hormones, especially LH: luteinizing hormone.) I've cited the most

pertinent study below, and included my notes. There have been several other studies that address the hormone effect

and behavioral affects.

Meyer, Roger E. (1990) Ethanol beverage anticipation: Effects on plasma testosterone

and luteinizing hormone levels﷓A pilot study. Journals of Studies on Alcohol, 51, 4, 350-355.
My notes:

SNIFFING ALCOHOL INCREASES LH. ALCOHOL CAUSES UNCONDITIONED POSITIVE RESPONSE THAT IS REINFORCING. CHRONIC

CONSUMPTION REDUCES LH AND GnRH COMPARED TO TESTOSTERONE. REINFORCEMENT OF BEHAVIOR THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL STIMULI

CAUSES INCENTIVE DRUG EFFECT.



I don't find it implausible that some percentage of the

female population would react to men with high testosterone levels.

There must be a biological

pathway that enables the reaction, and so far as is known, the biological pathway involves metabolites/byproducts of

testosterone--not testosterone itself.



I'm discounting testosterone byproducts since

she is apparently reacting to it clearly when it is fresh rather than hours later.

When it is

initially applied, it is the evaporation of the alcohol carrier that is associated with olfactory

appeal.

JVK

[maxo-texas]

So then, he could test by

finding some alchohol and putting it on his skin and seeing how she reacted. Be a heck of a lot cheaper than

androgel.

However, that study certainly makes it a lot more probably it's the alcohol. I was unaware that

alcohol affected LH. So the smell of alcohol in a bar is having an affect on the hormonal balance of the women even

if they are not drinking.

[jvkohl]

I was unaware

that alcohol affected LH.

Most people are unaware that pheromones effect LH, despite the fact that

this effect is well-known in mammals.


So the smell of alcohol in a bar is having an affect

on the hormonal balance of the women even if they are not drinking.

The term "effect" is typically

used in reference to a cause and effect relationship (e.g., pheromones effect hormones).

The term "affect"

is typically used in reference to behavior (e.g., pheromones affect behavior--usually behavior associated with

emotions.)

Technically speaking, to make a point: ethanol, whether or not its smell is consciously perceived

can be expected to have both an effect on hormones, and an affect on behavior. Better understanding of chemical

effects and affects will lead to better understanding of how the effects and affects of chemicals like androstenol

compare to the effects and affects of other chemicals found in their "alcohol" form.

However, the question

of whether the smell of alcohol in a bar is having an effect on the hormonal balance of the women even if they are

not drinking remains unstudied--so far as I know.

Perhaps a study could be inspired here by informing Forum

members that "brewer's yeast" (as used to make alcohol) contains a peptide hormone so similar to mammalian

gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH), that it activates LH in cultures of rodent (i.e., mammalian) pituitary cells.

Could the alpha mating pheromone of "brewer's yeast" (i.e., GnRH) be the reason for the effect of ethanol on human

levels of LH?

More details about this cross-species conservation of chemical signalling will be found in my

forthcoming article: The Mind's Eyes: Human Pheromones, Neuroscience, and Male Sexual Preferences. Journal of

Psychology & Human Sexuality.Volume: 18 Issue: 4 Cover Date: 2006. Page Range: 313 - 369. Simultaneously published

in the Handbook of the Evolution of Human Sexuality.

Abstract:
The across-species genetic

conservation of intercellular and extracellular chemical communication enables unicellular and multicellular

organisms to functionally distinguish between self and non-self. Non-self olfactory/pheromonal input from the social

environment elicits a vertebrate neuroendocrine response. The organization and activation of this neuroendocrine

response modulates the concurrent maturation of the mammalian neuroendocrine system, the reproductive system, and

the central nervous system during the development of sexual preferences that may be expressed in sexual behavior.

Psychophysiological mechanisms for the development of these sexual preferences include focus on unconscious affects

that are detailed in reciprocal cause and effect relationships. Olfactory/pheromonal conditioning elicits

neuroendocrine effects accompanied by unconscious affects on the development of sexual preferences. Integrating

these unconscious affects extends to humans a developmental model of behavior that includes the development of male

sexual preferences for other males.


I was unaware that alcohol affected LH.



Increased awareness can be beneficial, and overwhelming.


JVK

[maxo-texas]

One theory could be that

drunk females reproduce more. So that would accentuate the initial effect over time causing their descendants to be

more common in the population.