The smell of meat

[jvkohl]

The Effect of Meat

Consumption on Body Odor Attractiveness

By Havlicek J, Lenochova P

Axillary body odor is individually

specific and potentially a rich source of information about its producer. Odor individuality partly results from

genetic individuality, but the influence of ecological factors such as eating habits are another main source of odor

variability. However, we know very little about how particular dietary components shape our body odor. Here we

tested the effect of red meat consumption on body odor attractiveness. We used a balanced within-subject

experimental design. Seventeen male odor donors were on "meat" or "nonmeat" diet for 2 weeks wearing axillary pads

to collect body odor during the final 24 h of the diet. Fresh odor samples were assessed for their pleasantness,

attractiveness, masculinity, and intensity by 30 women not using hormonal contraceptives. We repeated the same

procedure a month later with the same odor donors, each on the opposite diet than before. Results of repeated

measures analysis of variance showed that the odor of donors when on the nonmeat diet was judged as significantly

more attractive, more pleasant, and less intense. This suggests that red meat consumption has a negative impact on

perceived body odor

hedonicity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?tmpl=NoSidebarfile&db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list

_uids=16891352&dopt=Abstract

JVK

[Bruce]

Hey hey! I knew it! Vegetarians

rule! :-)

[koolking1]

No study was needed for me.

Back in the late 60s/early 70s with half a million GIs in Vietnam and Thailand, the locals complained of our smell

and it wasn't that we weren't clean, it was all the meat in our diets coming through our pores in the heat of the

day/night. I like a good steak but limit myself to perhaps one a month, unfortunately, my liking tacos doesn't

help much though.

[tim929]

What about those of us on the

processed,prepackaged,chemicaly altered,improperly prepaired,high fat,high sugar,high colesterol,high

sodium,non-natural food diet?:think: Thats gotta have a pretty serious effect on how our odors are percieved by

people.

[Gegogi]

Yep, if you're a vegetarian this

is something you figured out long ago. I have difficult being intimate with heavy meat eating females. No matter how

much they wash, it gets really funky down south. Luckily most Asian women are light meat eaters or

near-vegetarians.

[live4themusic]

Hey hey! I

knew it! Vegetarians rule! :-)

Amen to that!

[marcuccio88]

Interesting.
I

wonder if this has some factor in animal dominance. Like if I'm walking in the woods smelling like I eat a lot of

meat, it's a sign to other animals to stay away 'cause I might eat you too. grrrrrrrr.
-mc

[Gegogi]

I doubt it. Hippos, elephants and

bulls are vegetarian are widely known to kick major ass.

[maxo-texas]

Never noticed an issue with

meat eating females here. Or maybe I just like the taste of meat.

[Gegogi]

If you're around the smell all

the time you get used to it and don't notice. I didn't notice it much until I started cutting back on meat and

moving to organic veggies. The old nose really perked up. I could actually smell their diet coming out of their

pores. Heavy beef eaters make some funky sweat, terrible breath and ultra stinky privates.

[koolking1]

Interesting.
I wonder if

this has some factor in animal dominance. Like if I'm walking in the woods smelling like I eat a lot of meat, it's

a sign to other animals to stay away 'cause I might eat you too. grrrrrrrr.
-mc

I highly recommend that

if you own a pet dog that you do not go to a Philippine party and partake of the bbq. Your pet will not be happy at

all when you get home. They WILL know.

[DCW]

Yep, if you're a

vegetarian this is something you figured out long ago. I have difficult being intimate with heavy meat eating

females. No matter how much they wash, it gets really funky down south. Luckily most Asian women are light meat

eaters or near-vegetarians.

True indeed, remember my post about my sexy Asian friend who ate

pineapples to make her putty sweet tasting ?


DCW

[ohmmmm]

I hate to say this, but my Asian

friend from china told me a story about going out to eat and trying dog. I guess in china there are certain types

of dogs that people can eat... I think its illegal in most areas though. Anyways, when they got home thier pet dog

acted very strang and ran away from them and would not go near them for a day or so... :run:

[DCW]

I hate to say this, but

my Asian friend from china told me a story about going out to eat and trying dog. I guess in china there are

certain types of dogs that people can eat... I think its illegal in most areas though. Anyways, when they got home

thier pet dog acted very strang and ran away from them and would not go near them for a day or so...

:run:

Sound like he's pulling your leg.

DCW

[belgareth]

Without arguing for or against

it, I've never quite figured out the problem with eating dog...or horse, for that matter. We eat squid, chicken

embryos and chopped misc. animal parts wrapped in intestine yet we are adverse to eating dog? Why is that?



Personnally, I don't eat beef at all because I don't like the flavor and rarely eat any other red meat. The

majority of my protein comes from the ocean.

[Bruce]

DCW,

I can assure you first hand

that the dog eating thing is accurate. I lived in various parts of China for a year or so and spent some time in

Korea too. It is widely believed and practised by many in China that eating dog meat during the winter will keep

you free of colds. My roommates (both Americans) used to eat the odd dog every now and then in the winter and

frequently came home with some sort of rice dish featuring goat meat chunks, which they bought at a local vendor

near our home.

When I was in Seoul I used to hit the street market area to stock up on supplies and in the food

area, you could find virtually any animal you could think of being sold for food: rabbits, dogs, cats, birds of all

kinds, snakes, all sorts of rodents. At the night market in Taiwan you can easily find a bowl of cobra soup, which

men believe will put the lead back in the ol' pencil. I also saw seahorses, all sorts of insects, horns of many

different animals and on and on and on in my neighborhood herb shop.

[Holmes]

There was an episode of Anthony

Bourdain's old show which found him in Vietnam (IIRC), eating a cobra's (still beating) heart and drinking its

blood. Both of which are evidently supposed to imbue the participant with great strength.

[DCW]

DCW,

I can assure

you first hand that the dog eating thing is accurate. I lived in various parts of China for a year or so and spent

some time in Korea too. It is widely believed and practised by many in China that eating dog meat during the winter

will keep you free of colds. My roommates (both Americans) used to eat the odd dog every now and then in the winter

and frequently came home with some sort of rice dish featuring goat meat chunks, which they bought at a local vendor

near our home.

When I was in Seoul I used to hit the street market area to stock up on supplies and in the

food area, you could find virtually any animal you could think of being sold for food: rabbits, dogs, cats, birds of

all kinds, snakes, all sorts of rodents. At the night market in Taiwan you can easily find a bowl of cobra soup,

which men believe will put the lead back in the ol' pencil. I also saw seahorses, all sorts of insects, horns of

many different animals and on and on and on in my neighborhood herb shop.

Bruce,

I'm not

disputing that some Asian eat dogs, that fact is actually well known.
The dog running aways story is a little

suspect.


DCW

[koolking1]

after living in Vietnam,

Thailand, and The Philippines, I can wholeheartedly assure you that if you own a dog as a pet and you go out and eat

some dog, your dog, at least for a time, will consider you a "dog eater" and will shy away from you till the odor

has passed.

[Gegogi]

Here on Oahu we have a large

Philipino population and, every once in while, the police bust a dog farm or cock fighting operation. Of course

they're charged with cruelity to animals, tax evasion, health code and all sorts of other petty violations. Of

course the moral outrage from the community, especially white folk, is great.

Now I like dogs, have owned many as

pets and would never consider eating one in the slim hope of increasing virility. However, if you're into eating

meat, I see no moral diff between dogs, cats, chickens or cows. But 'dems da laws hea!

[Lorenzo_91]

In regards to the smeling fom

eating meat I think it could be the opposite. I don't eat a single fruit or vegetable and I am always amazed at how

clean I smell. My breath is always really clean no matter what. I think it is mosly genetic. :cheers:

[Gegogi]

Ah dunno but your breath has a

lot to do health, diet (Atkins diet followers are know for ultra bad breath) and the the presense of certain

bacteria on gums, teeth, tongue and throat. If you eat a little yogurt daily the "friendly bacteria" will help nix

some of the funk. However many folks have a stomach condition whichs allows the smell of stomach juices to ventilate

through the mouth, so no matter how clean their mouth, the breath is still bad.

[bronzie]

Without arguing

for or against it, I've never quite figured out the problem with eating dog...or horse, for that matter. We eat

squid, chicken embryos and chopped misc. animal parts wrapped in intestine yet we are adverse to eating dog? Why is

that?

Personnally, I don't eat beef at all because I don't like the flavor and rarely eat any other red

meat. The majority of my protein comes from the ocean.


Just picked this reply to quote, but

others in this post tow the same line, and dont see a problem with eating dog. So Im kind of replying to

all.

Eating dog in my opinion is discusting, and this opinion reflects most Governments and thier

Legislature, as its ilegal to do so in most countries. Eating a animal that has been bred over the centuries to

serve mankind and is extremely intelegent, and is considered mans "best friend" is beyond me.

I compare it

to eating a primate, which is almost canabalistic in nature. Apart from the high toxin issue of dog meat, the

ethical issue of eating dog is very real in western countries, and that includes another animal, the horse. Again

bred to serve, and a friend of man throughout history. Eating horse is ilegal in most countries.

The issue of

eating a certain type of animal and not eating it, can be seen from a viewpoint of cultural and scientific, some

animals are actually not very safe to eat, because of thier high (bad) bacteria ratio in the meat. They include Dog,

Kangaroo and also other game meats.

Nothing wrong with eating squid or calamari, mollusks, and most sea

creatures (fish) are clean, with low toxicity and very good for you. Ofcourse there are exceptions with species and

the age of some species.

But the thought of eating Dog kind of churns my stomach.

Most land animals

that are carnivarous or scavengers ( eat anything or carim ) are actually not very safe to eat due to toxicity and

bacteria in the meat, even after its been well cooked.

Sea creatures are different in this regard because of

thier enviroment.

Roasted Puppy on a stick, now thats a tasty thought...



:blink:

[gaf]

I have no problem with eating dog...

not that I've had the chance at all...
Also, If I needed to eat in a life or death situation and all that was

available was rover, it's all over for rover!
BTW I only eat organic meat due to the local butcher , and it

tastes damn fine and much better , even my kids can taste the difference! I once served up 'roo and they loved it,

till they found out it was "skippy".

[Gegogi]

Those that eat meat directly or

indirectly cause the death of a living creature to dine on its flesh. That is how it's been since the beginning of

time. In the eyes of Mother Nature, a dog is worth no more than a wolf, deer or bear. Now I'm a dad burn tree

hugging vegetarian and no longer eat or hunt animals (other than with my camera). Nevertheless I find it

hypocritical to condemn anyone for eating meat--dog, squirrel or otherwise--it as I once enjoyed hunting and fishing

and partook of the flesh of both wild and domestic beasts.


The bronz proclaims, "Eating dog in my opinion

is discusting, and this opinion reflects most Governments and thier Legislature, as its ilegal to do so in most

countries."

Perhaps this is true of Western nations where dogs are oft held in higher esteem than the

populations of countries they raped, pillaged and colonized. In some Asian countries dogs are farmed for the express

purpose of consumtion and served legally in restaurants. In Seoul dog ear soup is a highly regarded man's meal. A

few years back, I made the mistake of refusing to partake of such a meal and greatly insulted my otherwise very

gracious host.

Of course it is easy for outsiders puff up with self-righteousness and condemn the customs of

foriegn societies they have no understanding or appreciation of. We don't have to look very hard to find many

instances in the not too distant past of Australians and Americans treating their indigenous peoples worse than

dogs. And that every attitude of Western self-righteousness is one of the main reasons for the tensions between the

Middle East and the West. We arrogantly try to force our values on another culture and pay for it dearly at the gas

pump, airport and battlefield.

[belgareth]

Gegogi, Well put! The claims in

Bronzie's post of toxicity are pure tripe. For instance they eat blowfish in Japan. Food from the sea is no less

toxic than from the land. In some ways probably more due to heavy metal content. I know there are a lot of warnings

about fish caught in certain areas. Pork and chicken both are extremely likely to poison you if you don't cook them

thoroughly. And people do eat primate, monkey is rather good actually. Carnivore eats carnivore every day. All the

claims made are actually excuses for social mores that have no rational basis.

I agree about the forcing of

viewpoints on others and what it has brought us. It's sad but is what our narrow minded self rightous behavoir has

brought us. More acceptance and less condemation of others' habits and beliefs would solve a lot of problems.

[koolking1]

"Pork and chicken both are

extremely likely to poison you if you don't cook them thoroughly".

True enough in the USA. I have eaten

raw pork in north eastern Thailand where it's commonly served as a dish called "lob". Aside from many other

ingredients it's somewhat cooked by the addtion of lime juice. The Thais feed their free range pigs rice hence

they don't have the toxins that our pigs have. And, Thai rice is the best in the world. It's readily available

in the supermarkets here in the USA and very easy to cook. I recommend Nishon Brand, Thai Jasmine Rice, try it once

and you'll see what I mean.

Horse meet is available and legal to eat in Quebec Canada. I've had it

bbq'd by some old Laotian refugee friends that live there, not bad at all. In SE Asia they don't eat just any old

dog, it has to be a certain type and it won't be the family pet, a poodle or dachshund would never be eaten.



Over the past many years I've really cut back my consumption of all meats, particularly red meat but I

still eat it once in a while, mainly in tacos. Sue and I eat seafood for the most part of our diet. It's best to

stick to the smaller species such as cod, haddock, salmon and to avoid the larger species such as shark, swordfish,

and tuna which have higher mercury content due to their size. Tilapia, which is getting quite popular, are a

vegetarian fish. The real name for it is Nile Perch and it was imported into the USA from Africa to help control

the abundant vegetation in the Texas power plant lakes which are quite warm watered lakes. They reproduce like

proverbial "bunnies". Unfortunately, it's way overpriced in the stores and should be priced more like chicken,

it's that abundantly available. As time goes on, it's likely to become more of a staple as it grows well in fish

farm tanks.

Pineapple juice is the best thing of all to drink if you want to produce better tasting semen.

Coffee and beer are bad in that regard.

Lastly, I have to agree 100% with the posters who are more

tolerant of other culture's eating habits. It' not our place to judge that aspect of another's culture and if

you don't judge and are in some other country, you are more apt to enjoy the people and their culture, you might

even get invited out to a great feast and make a lot of new friends. When I took Sue to Thailand last year she

discovered she liked eating fried grubs and she was a hit with the locals because she didn't shy away from it.

Protein!

[belgareth]

Lastly, I

have to agree 100% with the posters who are more tolerant of other culture's eating habits. It' not our place to

judge that aspect of another's culture and if you don't judge and are in some other country, you are more apt to

enjoy the people and their culture, you might even get invited out to a great feast and make a lot of new friends.

When I took Sue to Thailand last year she discovered she liked eating fried grubs and she was a hit with the locals

because she didn't shy away from it. Protein!
My older sister's inlaws are Japanese and her husband was a

very good friend of mine. As a result I was exposed to their culture. Yuki, his mother, was a fine cook but I

learned to never ask what I was eating until I had tried it.

Since those days I have been around many cultures

and have been enriched by every one of them. We westerners are often arrogant and spoiled. Reality is that these

people have their own cultures, many of them thousands of years older than our own and all of them worthy of

respect. I'd get pretty pissed if somebody came in and tried to tell me to change my way of life to suit them. I'd

fight back too and it wouldn't be much prettier than what you see on the news now.

[DCW]

True indeed all you have to do is

walk the streets of American and you can see the product of bad food consumption.
Fat Fat Fat especially here in

Houston.


DCW

[belgareth]

True indeed all you

have to do is walk the streets of American and you can see the product of bad food consumption.
Fat Fat Fat

expecially here in Houston.


DCW
Here in the Dallas area too

[koolking1]

You'll never see a "Girls

of Maine" video.

[DCW]

Here in the Dallas

area too

Dallas I'm told is the fast food capital of the world.

DCW

[belgareth]

It wouldn't surprise me though

it should be the FRIED fast food capitol.:sick:

[bronzie]

Gegogi, Well

put! The claims in Bronzie's post of toxicity are pure tripe. For instance they eat blowfish in Japan. Food from

the sea is no less toxic than from the land. In some ways probably more due to heavy metal content. I know there are

a lot of warnings about fish caught in certain areas. Pork and chicken both are extremely likely to poison you if

you don't cook them thoroughly. And people do eat primate, monkey is rather good actually. Carnivore eats carnivore

every day. All the claims made are actually excuses for social mores that have no rational basis.

I agree

about the forcing of viewpoints on others and what it has brought us. It's sad but is what our narrow minded self

rightous behavoir has brought us. More acceptance and less condemation of others' habits and beliefs would solve a

lot of problems.

Toxicity is a very real issue in meat consumption, and im talking about toxins and

bacteria that live in the animal, this is a real issue, and the mad cow episode a few years ago was a wake up call

to the the world with regards to this. Most domesticated animals bred for meat consumption have high level of toxins

(especially in countries that have a low standard of health regulation in thier meat industries and a polluted

enviroment), and most game meats, ( dog, kangaroo, pheasent etc) have a high level of bad bacteria in the flesh of

the animal. Red meat is also catalist for alot of cancers, including colon cancer.

Sea creatures caught in

clean waters are clean to eat and have low toxins, heavy metals etc, again this depends on species and the age of

the animal. But most fishermen and consumers that have an eye for a good catch can pick out what is best in a fish

(im not talking frozen fish fingers or a fillet of fish from Mcdonalds)

I dont force my views on other

peoples eating habits, they do what they choose in thier kitchens and in thier countries, however im glad I live in

a country with fresh produce, and the cultural and the ideological view of the collective accepted cuisine reflects

my beliefs.

I follow a strict Mediteranean diet, which includes alot of vegetables, sea creatures, and little

red meat, and is reputed, (from scientific studies) to be the best diet for overall health.

[DCW]

I'm starting to have alot of

fondness for sushi.
It doesn't leave me bloated and is quite flavorful.
If I wasn't so lazy maybe Id try and

make it at home.


DCW

[bronzie]

Sushi, and the Japanese cusine

in general has alot in common with Greek cuisine, Japanese eat alot of fresh fish and vegetables, so do Greeks. Only

potential problem I hear about with Japanese cuisine is that some fish species they use in thier meals are actually

poisinos, and it takes a master chef to cut up the fish/fleshy part which is safe, and I have heard this takes some

real skill to achieve.

Sushi is a standard amongst athletes and bodybuilders as a clean food with low fat,

only thing about fish which has its "downside" is that its energy value is not as high as red meat, and alot of

people are not tolerant of fish, in the stomach sense.

I bet some of the forum members here that advocate

eating anything that moves or walks, wouldnt think twice in eating Whale. Japanese catch/harpon Whale for

"scientific" purposes, but its funny how it somehow ends up in thier resturants for scientific reasons!?!



Most civilized countries have banned the killing of Whales for consumption etc, but its interesting the

Japanese continue to defy this international ban in the name of science, but in fact the end product ends up in

thier resturants as a rather expensive meal.

[DCW]

Sushi, and the

Japanese cusine in general has alot in common with Greek cuisine, Japanese eat alot of fresh fish and vegetables, so

do Greeks. Only potential problem I hear about with Japanese cuisine is that some fish species they use in thier

meals are actually poisinos, and it takes a master chef to cut up the fish/fleshy part which is safe, and I have

heard this takes some real skill to achieve.

Sushi is a standard amongst athletes and bodybuilders as a

clean food with low fat, only thing about fish which has its "downside" is that its energy value is not as high as

red meat, and alot of people are not tolerant of fish, in the stomach sense.

I bet some of the forum members

here that advocate eating anything that moves or walks, wouldnt think twice in eating Whale. Japanese catch/harpon

Whale for "scientific" purposes, but its funny how it somehow ends up in thier resturants for scientific reasons!?!



Most civilized countries have banned the killing of Whales for consumption etc, but its interesting the

Japanese continue to defy this international ban in the name of science, but in fact the end product ends up in

thier resturants as a rather expensive meal.

That may be so, but I'm not a fan of growth hormone

laced beef , chicken and pork on my dinner table.


DCW

[belgareth]

Toxicity is a

very real issue in meat consumption, and im talking about toxins and bacteria that live in the animal, this is a

real issue, and the mad cow episode a few years ago was a wake up call to the the world with regards to this. Mad

cow disease is a viral infection of the brain. It has nothing to do with toxins or bacteria.

Yes,

bacteria is an issue but not necessarily related to the specific animals you referred to. Pork can be bad because so

many diseases that like pork like man (Trichinosis comes to mind) but most that like cows don't like man. It is

dependent on the particular creature's biological make up and similarity to man's. Chicken meat and eggs are

famous for several types of food poisoning (ptomain and salmonella among others) and if well cooked are not a

problem unless the particular bacteria leave a toxin that doesn't breakdown under temperature extremes. Almost all

seafood has the same issue.

Assuming seafood is safe because it comes from the sea is dangerous. Dangerous

levels of mercury have been detected in deep sea fish and shellfish time and again. The seas are badly polluted,

worse in some areas than others. Fish with strange growths and tumors are rejected by inspectors all the time.

Similarily, many are rejected for high heavy metal levels. Bacteria is also an issue with fish.





Most domesticated animals bred for meat consumption have high level of toxins (especially in

countries that have a low standard of health regulation in thier meat industries and a polluted enviroment), and

most game meats, ( dog, kangaroo, pheasent etc) have a high level of bad bacteria in the flesh of the animal. Red

meat is also catalist for alot of cancers, including colon cancer.
I assume you can support those claims?

Although I do wonder how they are related to your claims I was responding too.


Sea creatures

caught in clean waters are clean to eat and have low toxins, heavy metals etc, again this depends on species and the

age of the animal. But most fishermen and consumers that have an eye for a good catch can pick out what is best in a

fish (im not talking frozen fish fingers or a fillet of fish from Mcdonalds)

You can support that, right?

Links?



I dont force my views on other peoples eating habits, they do what they choose in thier

kitchens and in thier countries, however im glad I live in a country with fresh produce, and the cultural and the

ideological view of the collective accepted cuisine reflects my beliefs.

I follow a strict Mediteranean diet,

which includes alot of vegetables, sea creatures, and little red meat, and is reputed, (from scientific studies) to

be the best diet for overall health.

[koolking1]

DCW, after just visiting Memphis, I think Dallas has a serious contender, nothing

but fried food everywhere and tons of fat people.

[Gegogi]

The Bronz states" I follow

a strict Mediteranean diet, which includes alot of vegetables, sea creatures, and little red meat, and is reputed,

(from scientific studies) to be the best diet for overall health.

I don't doubt certain Mediteranean

cuisines are healthier than a typical North American diet. Monosaturated fats, red wine, less red meats, etc., have

obvious health benefits. Nevertheless, any scientific study that proclaims a particular Mediteranean cuisine to be

the "best diet for overall health" is ethnocentric at best and reads like pseudo-science from a woman's beauty

magazine. Incidentally there are scientific studies that demonstrate the health benefits of the Atkins diet and we

all know what happen to those poor folk...

[Holmes]

Does anyone here subscribe to the

eating-for-your-blood-type philosophy?

[DCW]

Does anyone here

subscribe to the eating-for-your-blood-type philosophy?
What is that?

DCW

[Holmes]

Basically a theory, started by

this guy (http://www.dadamo.com/), which posits that there is an optimal nutrition plan for each of the

blood types (i.e. a vegetarian diet isn't necessarily best suited for everyone's individual chemistry, type Os in

particular, etc. etc.).

I have no idea if it's a valid argument, but the idea is interesting. Someone

recently recommended that I read Eat Right 4 Your Type, hence my wondering if anyone else has either read the

book or followed the protocol...

[koolking1]

"Does anyone here

subscribe to the eating-for-your-blood-type philosophy?"

Sue's cousin out in Seattle follows it religiously.

He's 62 and looks about 52 and in great shape. He's also good with the ladies and has a sorta cocky/funny

routine going, we watched him in action at a restaurant breakfast one morning.

One thing I tend to do is to

eat what I feel like eating. Somehow I think that my mind knows what my body needs and my appetite is what I'll

follow. Luckily, it's not often I crave a Big Mac. However, given my weed smokin ways - yeah, sure, I could

stand to lose a few pounds, all from one place too!!!

[belgareth]

I think your body tells you

what it needs. Most people are not in contact with their bodies, they don't pay attention to what it tells them.

[gaf]

Pork can be bad

because so many diseases that like pork like man (Trichinosis comes to mind) but most that like cows don't like

man.

On a side note,
the pidgin english (PNG) name for white men is "long long pig"
just

thought I'd add that.

:cheers:

[maxo-texas]

Sort of subscribe to the

blood type thing- would layer on that historical diet of your bloodline.

Can't trust your body with regard to

processed foods- the corps have figured out food additives to make it want things that it shouldn't (high fructose

corn syrup for example). Otherwise, agree.

[bronzie]

Belgareth, when im refering to

toxins in a particular animal, im talking about the toxins present in the animal while the animal is alive, not

toxins and bacteria that develop once the meat has been sitting around "dead" unrefrigerated on a hot day for a few

hours. A simple google search brings up literally thousands of web sites with reference to meats toxicity,

especially with regard to red meat. In all due respect, I understand why you feel the need for me to support my

claims, however, I come to this forum to chill out, and not write a term paper full of citations, quotes and

references.

Gegogi, I dont know what a North American diet is, but I pressume its one that is very high in

simple sugars, just going by north American popular culture, also North Americans do have a very high incidence of

diabetes and obesity and other diet related problems. As for the mediteranean diet bieng "ethnocentric", I dont

believe this to be true, Scientific Studies have proven the mediteranean diet to be probably the best diet for

overall health from any way you view it, bieng of Chinese origin, Australian or Thai, and the low incidence of diet

related problems and issues with people that follow this diet proves this.

As for this diet bieng as you put

it "pseudo-science from a woman's beauty magazine" or a fad is pure nonesense, this diet has been around for

thousands of years and is documented in respected science journals to be very good.

[The Real FTR]

http://crime.about.com/b/a/256945.htm

See what happens when

you don't eat meat?!

[koolking1]

one can only hope that he

gets to have a lot of meat in him in prison and plenty of protein shakes as well.

[Gegogi]

Lots of big talk there Bronz, but

where's these scientific studies you rage about? Mediteranean tourist brouchures? I've heard of many diet studies

and exactly zero have heralded the Mediteranean as the greatest among the world. Here's a study that indicates

Mediterranean promotes longevity and is an excellent and healthy choice. However it does not state that

Mediterranean is the best or better than other healthly

diets.

http://www.researchmatters.harvard.edu/story.php?article_id=674

If your were

referring to the In the early 1960s World Health Organization study of the dietary habits of people from seven

different countries, Greece, Italy, Yugoslavia, Holland, Finland, USA and Japan, the data is now decades out of

date. Things have changed, especially in Japan. Plus there are many other disease causing factors they didn't

consider, e.g., industrial pollution, atomic fallout, etc. In the 50s and early 60s Japan suffered from a terrible

tuberculosis pandemic.

The nation with the highest average longevity is now Japan (81.15 years), not Italy

(79.25) or the Greek Isles (78.6). And this is despite a terrible trend towards tobacco use. What the hell, even

Australia does better than most Mediteranean countries at 80 years. Of course it is not as simple as a good diet as

lifestyle and medical care comes into play. However the typical Japan diet of low fat proteins, lots of veggies and

rice is largely credited for their longevity. And these trends have been observed in studies at the University of

Hawaii of American-Japanese living in Hawaii and the West Coast. They live longer than most other ethnic groups

mainly because of their diet. Within the Japanese, Okinawans live the longest: There are about 35 centenarians for

every 100,000 people, a rate that is three times higher than in Europe or the United States.

[The Real FTR]

That seems arguable, too,

from what I can Google - although I suppose anything's arguable. But, for

example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=961690&dopt=Abstract ("http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=961690&dopt=Abstract"

)

I

read an article the other day theorizing that the differences are also because people in the US work longer hours

and take fewer vacations than anyone else in the world, plus the value in this country of individualism vs the more

traditional model of working well as a team places more stress on
the worker. The idea of success as an individual

is increasingly taking hold in Asian countries as they push for greater productivity.

I would bet it's not

just diet. It's lifestyle. Any culture is less stressed and takes more vacation time than the US. No surprise we

die faster.

[Mtnjim]

I would bet

it's not just diet. It's lifestyle. Any culture is less stressed and takes more vacation time than the US. No

surprise we die faster.

I mostly agree with you, however (there's always a "however, isn't there?), I

think that the amount of "crap" in our diets that other countries won't allow is a major contributor. Look at all

of the High Fructose corn syrup in things (KFC used to give honey, now it's "honey sauce", first ingredient listed?

High Fructose corn syrup, then honey!)
Then there are trans fats in everything, worse than saturated fat found in

whole milk and red meat. Now the "fresh salmon" lists red dye added!


Blech!!!:sick: (where's that pukeing

"smilie" when you need it?)

[The Real FTR]

That's true about the

sugars and the hydrogenated fats.

Food coloring in salmon is a new one on me. Bad news!

[surfs_up]

it is unclear to me whether it is the origin of the fat itself, or the fat how it is modified by

high heat cooking... one cannot but notice that among women especially the eating of excess fried fatty foods lead

to an uneaven, lumpy face... this "rotting orange" texture is seen over and over again where there is a high (long

chain, as with pork or marbled beef, especially sausage eating people) heat, fat fried in fat, dense meat eating....

so many otherwise beautiful women have been rendered puffy and disfigured... sometimes I ask them, avoiding the

subject of their appearance, and they often tell me that they are "addicted to the taste" of fatty meats prepared in

this way, greasy ribs, kielbasa, and such... where, on the other hand, people who eat diets rich in seed oils, most

particularly olive, AND (critical point) avoid too much fried fatty meat often have a firm, youthful, and radiant

complexion that shiows good underlying circulation in the capillaries.... often too, you seen elderly people in the

American midwest who have high burned or heated fat diets, and their skin has a yellowish, near waxy pallor of

capillaries that can barely deliver any oxygen or remove any metabolic wastes... this accumulation of metabolic

wastes which leads to a waxy yellowing of the skin can be seen in extreme form with end stage cancers as the tumors

throw off more waste than the liver can detoxify... often the patient actually expires from "tumor poisoning"...

these observations if you are in a position to see them for yourself are sobering indeed... my diet now is a high

proportion of yoghurt, olive oil, beans, salads, and berries....

[surfs_up]

That's true

about the sugars and the hydrogenated fats.

Food coloring in salmon is a new one on me. Bad

news!

Thic, actually and most surprisingly, is a case where the food coloring in question has been

discover to be especially GOOD for you... this coloring agent is astaxanthin , a nontoxic retinoid

derived from algae, that appears to be remarkably protective of human tissue, and lowers free radical injury,

arthritic swelling, and age related macular degeneration.... so much so that I take a 4 milligram capsule of very

fishy smelling Astaxanthin every night and have less stiffness in the morning when I wake up... in nature it is what

makes lobsters red too...

[gaf]

so much so that I

take a 4 milligram capsule of very fishy smelling Astaxanthin every night and have less stiffness in the morning

when I wake up... in nature it is what makes lobsters red too...

umm, you do mean creaky bones rather

then "morning wood" ?
:run:

[surfs_up]

more than fine.... usually have sex with two women sequentially... wear the poor things out ya know... not bad for

a 50 year old guy.... supposedly penile circulation is a major indicator of vascular health... and that's curuious

because my blood chemistry is bad, cholesterols and triglycerides, LDL/HDL ratios.... so they CAT scanned my heart

to see if there was a physical risk in my coronary arteries and nothing out of the ordinary... so the doc is

wondering... I ought to be manifesting cardiovascular issues with my lousy blood chems but I'm not.... OTOH, I

consume a fair amount of high quality olive oil daily, 15 milligrams of Lycopene twice daily, that's the red stuff

in tomatos, about the equivalent of eating 6 ripe tomatos per day (lycopene is especially protective of the prostate

gland, and my PSA scores are way low and NO prostate enlargement, also very unusual for a 50 year old male, and now

they think lycopene also protects the vascular system.... eat your damn tomatos willya ? Or take 30 mg. of lycopene

daily in two doses..)... a mixed tocopherol that is high in Gamma-Tocopherol... and 4 mg. of Astaxanthin..... really

felt that in my hands and knees when I first wake up....

[Holmes]

Do you take (or have you taken)

CoQ10?

[itwow]

In addition to virgin olive oil,

virgin coconut oil aids metabolism greatly (immediately too). Top 3 oils : olive, coconut, palm... although I have

no idea on how to choose premium olive oil. Any tips?

Been having good "perk me ups" with combo of

Gynostemma, Pregnenolone, Cordyceps & Schisandra. I've gone through numerous brain & CNS herbs, exhausted many of

them throughout the years (reishi, ginseng, royal jelly etc). One good way is to cycle the supplements every 2

days.

Gynostemma acts similarly to Panax Ginseng, there are more saponins in Gynostemma. Cordyceps for

sustaining libido, non-taxing & without the aggressiveness of Tongkat Ali (testosterone aid). Schisandra for the

added genital sensitivity, extra elixir juices & longer orgasms, works on females too.

A chi discipline (qi

gong, tai chi, specialised yoga) helps greatly with libido, erection & general well being. A nice way to de-stress

from the strains of the day.

Tomatoes - Lycopene... any recommended brands? Is it a standardised extract?

Thanks.

i2w

[Mtnjim]

In addition to virgin

olive oil, virgin coconut oil aids metabolism greatly (immediately too). Top 3 oils : olive, coconut, palm...

although I have no idea on how to choose premium olive oil. Any tips?
You might want to look at

this (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:HyRexgpe3qIJ:www.cspinet.org/new/pdf/hhsletter.pdf+health+effects+of+palm+o

il&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5) reguarding Plam oil,

[itwow]

You might want to

look at

this (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:HyRexgpe3qIJ:www.cspinet.org/new/pdf/hhsletter.pdf+health+effects+of+palm+o

il&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5) reguarding Plam oil,

The article warns about the risks of

consuming saturated fats (coconut, palm, olive etc), which is not true at all. It is the trans fats

(corn, soy, safflower & canola) which are most damaging to health.

I consume VCO directly on food, similar to

olive oil on salads which is the healthier approach, although VCO do survive high temperature cooking. Eat well & be

well.

- Beware of Who You Believe About Health Information

link (http://www.mercola.com/2004/aug/21/health_information.htm)

- What Oil Should You be Cooking

With, and Which Should You Avoid? link (http://www.mercola.com/2003/oct/15/cooking_oil.htm)

- The

Truth About Saturated Fat link (http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm)

- Are

Saturated Fats Really Dangerous For You?

link (http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/vegetarianism_myths_06.htm)

- Trans Fat Much

Worse for You Than Saturated Fat link (http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/21/trans_fat.htm)

-

Trans Fats, NOT Saturated Fats, Increase Diabetes Risk

link (http://www.mercola.com/2001/jun/16/diabetes.htm)

- Secrets of the Edible Oil

Industry link (http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/1/oil.htm) (how soybean oil production

rose from virtually nothing in 1900 to 70 million tons in 1970, surpassing corn production. Today, soy oil dominates

the market and is used in almost 80 per cent of all hydrogenated oils.

i2w

[Holmes]

I'm sticking with palm wine. Good

for the nerves.

[The Real FTR]

Pass me a glass!



Coconut oil is really good for your skin, when used in place of a lotion. Taken internally too.

[surfs_up]

The saturated fats have the distinct advantage of not forming peroxides, while the highly unsaturated

fats easily form peroxides which are most dangerous to cardiovascular health... for some reason the safest dietary

oils appear to be the monosaturated fats

"Foods rich in monosaturated fats are generally liquid at

room temperature and semi-solid when refrigerated. Up to the mid 1980's, it was believed that monosaturated fats

had a neutral effect on blood cholesterol levels. However, research since then has revealed that by replacing

saturated fats with monosaturated fats can be more effective in lowering LDL ("bad") cholesterol than by using

polyunsaturated fats alone. However, an excess of monounsaturated fats can lead to health problems through the

interference of the chemical conversions of essential fatty acids into prostaglandins."

Oils rich in

monosaturates are olive, sesame, and macadamia nut. These do not have the peroxidation risks of the polyunsaturated

oils or the cholesterol raining effects of the saturated fats. The most balanced source of Omega 6 and Omega 3

polyunsaturates is blackcurrant seed oil . I take about 2 grams of blackcurrant seed oil daily, which will

readily convert into EPA and DHA as needed. It appears that the most important consideration is a careful balance

between monosaturated, unsaturated, and saturated fats, and the supplemetation with fat soluble antioxidants.

Medical research has now demonstated that the most dangerous transformations to fats either occur through high heat

cooking or oxidation within the bloodstream.... the fat peroxide or epoxide actually acts as a chemical messenger

that provokes and immune attack on the lining of the vascular system.... if a good antioxidant is present, the

lipoprotein complex remains unoxidised even though it may be transporting significant amounts of cholesterol... the

cholesterol is fairly harmless until it becomes a cholesterol oxide poison, damaging the smooth cellular layer (the

"intima") that lines the arteries... for some reason, the most popular form of vitamin E, the d-alpha form, didn't

pan out as being the great vascular protector that it was hyped up to be... then somebody asserted that the key was

in the balance of d-alpha and d-gamma forms of tocopherol... and by overconsuming the d-alpha form a deficiency was

induced in the d-gamma form... many vitamin E products have been recently reformulated to address the need for an

alpha/gamma balance... it is possible, even probably, that a balanced tocopherol/retinoid

(astaxanthin/lutein/lycopene)/dietary fat profile will reduce vascular injury... always keep in mind that smoking

and drinking in excess, as especially smoking and drinking in excess taken together, directly injure the arterial

linings and greatly accelerate the rate of vascular decay....

[live4themusic]

message deleted

[Mtnjim]

...people who

think 5 Big Macs a day is eating properly
You mean it isn't?? :blink::think:

:lol::lol::lol:

[Holmes]

"hedonicity"?

[Minn]

I have a friend that makes sushi at

a restaurant, he says that they reject fish that may even look perfectly good to the un-trained eye. Mainly because

of quality, age of the fish, softness, colour, smell :o, how clean or how recently caught, and where it was caught

[Toxins!] - Oh and there was someone on this topic that said wish that s/he'd make it themselves - It shouldn't be

done by someone not trained, they have extensive sushi health and safety training, fish atonomy and so on

That

sorta proves that toxins can also give you a bad stomach and a overall unhealthy person.