What Would You Think?

[The Real FTR]

There's a

law student who sits next to me at work. He's very good looking, smart, funny, great social skills. He caught

sight of this paralegal who works on some of my attorney's cases, and he wanted to meet her, so I introduced them.

Every time she would come to my desk afterwards to pick up papers, he would take his IPod out of his ears and say

hello. She'd say hello and that was it. Pleasant but didn't stick around to chat.

So last week I was joking

around with him, asking when's the hot date? He says do you know something I don't? I said no, but I have

confidence in you! Then toward the end of the week, there was a social event at the firm, and he's like, come on,

let's check it out, so I went. We stood around talking to each other for a bit, I can see he's got his eye on the

paralegal some distance away, so she finally comes over, says hello, and we chit-chat. He asked her what she was

doing this weekend. She said "I don't want to go out AT ALL this weekend. I've been out every night this week.

I get home tired, my friends are like, no, come out! and I end up going, we went to this place (name of bar) and

that place (name of bar) and the other place (name of bar) so I'm not going out at all this weekend." We chatted a

tiny bit more and we dispersed.

So I said what did you think of that? He said yeah, well, he'd called her

earlier in the week and asked her if she'd like to go out this weekend. I'm like ... :blink: He looks at my face

and says "Do you think that was a gentle 'no'?" I said yes, I would take that as a no. If she was interested she

could have said I can't this weekend but I'm free next weekend, or offer some other alternative, like a drink

after work.

He said it was hard understanding these convoluted ways women have of saying no.

I said at any

rate, I think you should start dropping by those places she named for a drink after work, because that's where the

paralegals from a couple of firms hang out, and there are plenty more fish in that sea.

Do you think she was

convoluted? Do you think she meant she didn't want to go out with him?

[bronzie]

Most women try to avoid dating

men that they work with, especially intern type workers like Law students who still have not climbed the ladder. Im

guessing, even if she was attracted to him, she would say no on those grounds. Im also assuming that this law firm

is fairly large? with alot of older experienced male lawyers? Law is a very conservative proffession ( I know, I am

one and been there ), if a male co-worker of hers found out that she was dating /having an affair with a Law

student, my bet would be it would look negatively on her, and not professional on her part. It could create alot of

friction within the firm.

We all know, work life and private life is seperate and one should not discriminate

on the grounds of a liason with a work mate, however the reality is, that work place affairs and relationships often

bring about very complex situations, and its often seen as a negative with boss's and other workers.

My

guess is this girl is just flirting, but she is too smart to take the next step and actually go out this this boy,

maybe she values her career ambitions with the firm more then any attraction she has for him.

By the way,

FTR, its co workers such as yourself that remember every tiny detail in the lives of other co workers and thier

potential developing relationship with others that put these people under the spotlight/microscope at work! Not that

its a bad thing, its just human nature..

[The Real FTR]

I was curious to know

whether the men on this forum would have found her answer convoluted or been confused about her message.

That's

the only part of the story that was interesting to me.

As far as my noticing everything - I am female.

But

he sits next to me and he involved me from the beginning, and she is instructed to come to my desk once a day to

pick up papers. We joke around about me being his "wing man." He specifically invited me to know everything I know

about it.

It's not something I would talk about in real life because it's not interesting. Nobody cares what

staff does. Paralegals move on to law school after a year or two. The only reason a lawyer in the firm would care

if she dated the law student is if he wanted to move on her himself. I don't know what firms you have worked at,

but I've been at this one 7 years now, and there's a good bit of discrete hanky panky. Everyone's there 12 hours

a day, sometimes 7 days a week. It would actually be more of a problem to date someone from another firm, because

of the possibility of client confidentiality being breached and creating conflict of interest.

Enough about law

firms.

Was her answer confusing?

[bronzie]

I was

curious to know whether the men on this forum would have found her answer convoluted or been confused about her

message.


Depends on her tonality of voice, the way she said it, she may be totally ambivilant

towards this guy in any sexual way. Unless you record the phone conversation and we listen to it first hand, we will

truly never know, but ofcourse phone tapping is illegal unless done by law. You could always bug them?

[The Real FTR]

I was using this incident

as an example to try to talk about communication between men and women.

But y'know what? It's too hard,

nevermind!

[Gegogi]

From your description FTR, sounds

like she may have said maybe someday but not this weekend, I'm burnt out. I probably wouldn't have taken it as an

irrevocable no, but as a possibility for later. Younger women tend to play games and convoluted answers are a way of

life. To make a decision about her, I'd have to experience a pattern of negatives before giving up. Often I thought

I was given the brush off after a few lame excuses only to have her chase me once I ceased pursuit. It would be nice

if everything was straight forward and upfront, but it just ain't.

[Holmes]

Confusing? Yes. Convoluted?

Maybe.

She could have meant "get lost." But maybe she really was too tired to do anything. It wasn't

necessarily the former. I've interpreted no as get lost and been dead wrong.

On paper it looks like a kind,

if slightly transparent, rejection. But it depends on how she said it, what her body language was like, blah blah

blah. We kind of had to be there.

[Gegogi]

I once asked a Korean girl out

and she said she had to ask her brother if it was okay. Now she was a recent college graduate in her mid-20s so I

figured that was the most lame brush-off to date. Later she called and told me her brother approved and come pick

her up...

[quaxer]

As I understand it, he asked her only what she was doing this weekend. This is quite

neutral and she might not have interpreted it as "do you want to do something with me this weekend", but maybe I am

wrong in how this kind of sentence in interpreted in your country/language environment.

Secondly she gave a good

explanation, why she did not want to do anything and she seemed to have very deliberatly pointed out that this is a

specific case for this weekend. It might just be true.

So I would advise him to be a bit more clear about his

intention (she might at the moment be totally unaware) and to give her the chance to really say no (or

yes).

[EDIT]
AAARRGGGH - Sorry, I take everything back and claim the opposite. I had overlooked that he had

called her beforehand to ask about going out that weekend.

So it is a clear no, she might re-consider, but if

so, she would have to give the signal ....

[koolking1]

sounds to me like she

brushed him off in a nice kind of non-confrontational way. However, he could have said something like: "yeah,

I've been partying too hard lately myself, wanna watch a dvd or two at my place?" At least he'd know for sure

then.

[Whitehall]

This is a slightly improved

version of the "I have to wash my hair tonight" brushoff.

If the girl is really young, she might not know

what she's saying when she recites her full social life. She is clearly saying that running with her friends is

her idea of a social life and one-on-one dating with a guy is not her priority right now.

I'd take this is a

"No, not this time" signal. It is not a no-never-ever brushoff. I'd still be friendly and open to positive

"come-on" signals in the future and wouldn't pursue another date until I got one. (Maybe next ovulation

cycle?)

She's not a prime prospect for this guy. Move on.

[Holmes]

Sorry, I missed the phone call

detail the first time around. Definitely a no, as in "not with you."

So now...confusing, no. Convoluted, yes

- though how else should she have responded?

They offered Brushoff in junior high. I should've taken that

instead of French.

[The Real FTR]

"Convoluted, yes - though

how else should she have responded?"

I realize that was something of a rhetorical question, but in view of the

fact he would not have known she said no if I hadn't interpreted girlspeak for him, I wonder, too. I knew he was

being firmly turned down even though I didn't know, when the conversation was taking place, that he'd asked her

out. The two heavily emphasized "at all" statements were combined with squinting and shaking her head no.

What

worries me is that I could clearly foresee (yes, I am psychic) his asking her out one more time, and her flipping

her hair while talking to another female at our firm about "omg, this guy just won't leave me

alone!"

Would you rather a woman be "convoluted" at the risk of you continuing to ask her out until

you're convinced you'll have no luck, or would you rather she just say flat out, "I'm not interested." (Which

seems rude to me, especially for someone you'll see at work every day, unless the guy had been really

blatant/offensive, and my friend had not.)

[koolking1]

for me I'd prefer

something simple and straightforward like "I'd love to but I can't". Of course, the body language would have to

match up, particularly the facial features. To me, that's a kind "no".

Then again, I'm not asking any

women for dates but only if they'd like to screw me.

[The Real FTR]

And there you have the

beauty of swing ... Still, it's fun to watch the straights do all the "convoluted" stuff.