Pheromone question for James Kohl

[**DONOTDELETE**]

James which of these was the androstenol that you are using for Scent Of Eros?
16,(5alpha)-ANDROSTEN-3alpha- OL
16,(5)-ANDROSTEN-3- OL ACETATE
16,(5alpha)-ANDROSTEN-3beta- OL
I have these through research periodicals about studies on pigs. I\'m barely a sophmore in college and im getting very interested on biomedical science. Is this what we would have to study to work on projects like these?

[jvkohl]

There are several different disciplines that enter the stage when putting together info on pheromones. Yes, biomedical science is a good start; ultimately you might end up specializing in some branch of neuroscience (neuroanatomy or neuroendcrinolgy for example). Honestly though, everyone\'s path through academia will be somewhat different. Mine has been downright weird and I\'ve spent considerably less time in formal pursuits. It seems likely that the only college diploma I will ever have will be an honorary diploma (one of which I will receive in Prague this May, for the NEL paper).

With regard to the androstenol chemistry, typically it is 16,(5alpha)-ANDROSTEN-3alpha- OL that is used, at least I think this is it. Since I\'m no steroid biochemist, I am readily confused when the same compound (as above) is listed as 5alpha-androst-16-en-3alpha-ol, or 3alpha-androstenol, or simply androstenol. So, the decision is left up to the perfumer.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hmm, the names are confusing. But here are a few rules of thumb to use when faced with a beast like this. First, the numbering is obscure. But if you look at cholesterol (another relative,) the OH- is at the 3 carbon, the unsaturation (double bond) is at the 5 carbon, and the tail is at the 17 carbon. This molecule, and most any derivative is a relatively planer ring structure (Cholesterol melts at 70-80 deg C, no wonder it messes up our membranes.) But, with planer organics, the alpha nomenclature means the group of interest is perpendicular (or axial) to the ring structure, and beta is parallel to the ring structure. If you want some simpler molecules to find the alpha/beta differences, look up hexoses (Glucose, galactose, etc) and they are named with this same nomelclature.

The acetate is an ester at the 3 postion. This is very common for the body to do in order to transport hydrophobic molecules throughout the body. Cholesterol-esters are analogous to this, and there are literally tons of lit on them.

Geez, I sound quite nrrdy. . .

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks alot guys. Thats very cool info from both.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh yeah, one more confusing thing to add. In commercials on TV you hear a lot about beta hydroxy acids, or whathave you. This is a different use of the beta. It means that there is an -OH on carbon 3. A less well know example, but better to use is alpha-keto-gluterate. This is a 5 carbon molecule with an acid at each end. There is a ketone on carbon 2. That is the alpha carbon on the molecule. One carbon away from the acid (or most important group, as told by the naming system.) That molecule goes on to become glutamate in us (or energy,) and MSG on/in our food.

So the point is that there are alpha (or other greek letters) positions, and alpha (see previous) carbons, and that they are much different from one another. More nrrding out for those interested in the chemistry...