"Narrowing it down"? (Simplicity versus complexity)

[DrSmellThis]

Congratulations to Bruce for having so many great products.

The only problem is now

it's challenging to narrow down one's strategy to get the best collection of products without being imprudent

economically or getting overly complex. (At least I get Pheros for free, and I know that doesn't conflict

with anything).

One economical strategy people like is to go with SOE/NPA. Another is Chikara/Edge. I'm thinking

maybe a314, Chikara, Impi and -nol, to cover most of your bases (I don't think you'd get enough -nol combining all

three in that way, since only CK has -nol). Then again, part of me wonders if that is sacrificing effectiveness for

basic thoroughness.

But that's already getting expensive; and is omitting A1, TAA, beta-nol, WAGG (whatever

happened to this formerly popular product?), and Liquid Trust, etc. So it's not really thorough.

Has anyone

else been thinking of this issue, or reached any new insights about it? We are all fortunate to have so much to

choose from. I know the answer is to try stuff and see what works, but still... Dammit, I've gotten some positive

responses from every product I've mentioned and more! :)

To me one of the main issues is whether Chikara and

Impi work better than simpler approaches to the same things, like AE and Edge, respectively. Gegogi seems to think

that IMPI doesn't work as well as the simpler NPA, for example. I don't know for myself.

I do happen to

believe that a314 is probably a good choice for most if one can simply replace their -rone with it. I wonder

whether people who don't get as good results from it (e.g, Belgareth) are trying it as a primary substance, rather

than as a normal source of -rone in the same quantity as they would normally use -rone.

Another issue is whether

"sexual" or "romantic" responses are traded off by approaches that may work better for general positive

responses from other humans, as some of the more complex products might do. (though I did get a

temporarily great girlfriend once using the complex CK, in an already involved mix).

What I might well do is use

a simple combo that I know works, and compare it on alternate days with various complex approaches to see whether I

can improve on it by getting more "sophisticated." Has anyone tried this approach?

It would be interesting to

know if Bruce (who knows what's in most everything) or other old timers who've tried millions of approaches had

any opinion.

I'm not expecting answers here and now, but thought it might be good to start the thread for

future referencing.

[Icehawk]

Isnt it a question of

specialization? At which point does multi phero mix become unproductive due to the mixed phero messaged it sends? On

one side you got the latest, C7, Impi, A314. Mixed secretive multiphero products. Middleground SoE, NPA/TE, WAGG,

AE? and farther back to the stone age of pheromones the pure none, nol products (2 many 2 list).

Id say that for

newbies trying to get any reaction or to learn the ropes, the newest stuff would suffice. Once you learn what

you like start to narrow down to what you want. I think whats being asked is at which point do you overspecialize

(bulky, confusing and uneconomical) or otherwise carry a too simple a mix (1:2 Andro 4.2 to PI...:think:)

Know

when to draw the phero line.

[Lor]

icehawk/ drsmellthis,
my strategy was to start with simple,and then having the samples sold me on certain things.

i still think its great to have a bunch of stuff to play with, not to use it all on the same day but to go with

changing moods,circumstances (work as opposed to play) and i think we intuite where we are lacking on an

off/unbalanced/vulnerable/stressful day.i wouldnt take excess vitamin c unless i had a cold, and there are those

days when a little more oomph tips a bad day to an okay day...

[smooth312]

Hey, I just started, so take

my post with a grain of salt.

However, even though I just started late last week, I've learned quite a bit and

had some great results. I am very satisfied with pheremones, with Love-Scent, and the advice on this forum. I got my

first DIHL today.

Anyway, I think you should actually start narrow, and then expand. I bought AE, SOE, and NPA to

start. I figured those are the most basic (but according to Icehawk, I guess not). Still, they are starting ground

for me to get a feel for the core pheremone products. After I find my ideal mixes with these, I can try more

specific-response products, then add them to the mixes.

For example, I think AE+NPA is incredible (courtesy of

slickracer). Liquid Trust is a new product I'll be adding to that soon.

So, I actually think you need broaden

as you go on. I'll perhaps try A314 and others down the road. It's sort of like body-building. First you start

with the core, compound exercises. Then you move on to target specific muscle groups...in order to chisel the

ultimate body. You'll still use the core pheremones, but the other specifc-response ones (and as more of these

appear on the market), will help in certain situations as needed.

That's just my take on it. Hope that was at

all relevant, lol. If not, I'm glad I at least exploited this opportunity to brag about my success, about my

satisfaction with LS, and to spread the word about slickracer's AE+NPA mix, which kicks ass.
:LOL:

[tounge]

A more interesting question is when

do pheromones become cost effective for a person. I see a lot of people here trying many of the different products.

I myself, have tried about half of the products here, and also some others sold elsewhere. Personally, the only mone

that has been reasonablly predictable for me has been NPA and Edge. I have been able to get consistancy out of these

products using them to suit my purposes.

Most of the other mones are wildly too inconsistant for me to keep

spending my hard earned dough. Now I'm not blaming the product per say, but generally most of these products have

to hit the right target at the right time. And you yourself have to be in the right frame to strike when the timing

is right.

I see so many people trying to make the magic mix or run to other websites to try all of their

products because of good salesmanship. For how many people does the end justify the means? If you are getting

consistant results with a certain product or two, what exactly are you looking for to be better? And if nothing is

performing for you, than why throw good money after bad? And if you're the rare freak of nature, that everything

you try works for you, than you are not who I'm talking about.

I don't care what product is sold here or

elsewhere, there is never going to be a magic bullet. I just don't think it's possible. I believe for most

people, that if they can get some small success out of one or two produts, than that is probably the best bang for

their buck.

[Sigma]

I think effective/efficient use of

pheromones is not a matter of the number of products you own, but more a matter of knowing which ones to buy, and

how to use what products you have. I use pheromones not only for the benefits they bring me in sexual type

interactions, but in professional and social settings as well, so there needs to be quite a bit of variability in

what I wear on certain days. The mixes I apply are highly tailored to the situations they'll be worn in, and as a

result, I'm seeing more consistency now than I did in the past. One can have a versatile, tailorable collection of

products, however, without breaking the bank, so long as they are mindful of what they buy.

I've always wondered

why some posters invested in different products that have similar, if not identical pheromone contents. ie

purchasing npa, te, pi, and AE together. or perception and chikara together. That in itself is a very

inefficient practice.

You have quite a lot of mixing options by purchasing A314, SOE, and NPA, because its a line

of products that is very diverse....plus rone, nol, and none are really the pheromones you want to focus on. For

example, SOE and A314 good for professional settings, NPA and SOE great for sexual and social settings. A314 and

NPA great for dates and what not.

The problem is though, that not all of these products will work as well for

everybody. There is quite a bit of experimentation involved in finding what works, and how much it works best. I

think the whole process of experimenting can get very costly initially. I do think though, that if some posters

took more time to better educate themselves before making purchases, they'd not only see results more quickly, but

not needlessly waste money either. (I'm guilty of having done so myself when I started)

[gfunk]

Well I personally seem to have

successfully come to a conclusion of exclusion for the use of WAGG, Impi, AE, PI, PCC and maybe SOE and

B-nol.

However my combo is still quite complex, and I think a broader range of diversity with pheromone content

will bring the most consistent and effective results, giving that an optimal balance is found.

:cheers:

[Whitehall]

I agree with DST, keep it simple

and know your goal.

Mastery is simplicity.

One does need to experiment at first but one can easily

find just a few products that contribute to your goals and you can make work.

For me, it's NPA to impact the

women and a 'nol product like SOE for social situations. WAGG with 'none would be another product I might keep

using for the office. I do like the musk scent oil with 'nol to add to my hair dressing.

[DrSmellThis]

THanks for the ideas,

everyone. Very very interesting input.

How about complex vs. simple products?

Chikara vs. AE?
Impi vs.

Edge/NPA?

I know all those products work, but...

I'm currently doing well with 1-3 dabs Impi, a small drop

b-nol, and 1 drop a314 applied over a Pheros-type analog mone concoction (I make basic, new mixes every day,

lately based around ambers).

Combined with minimal soap showering (none below the waist especially -- this

seemd to really push things over the edge) I had a week of meeting a new attractive woman every day (ph. numbers,

invitations, etc), with that mix.

I'm still not convinced b-nol works as well as alpha for sex/romance,

though.

[DrSmellThis]

You have quite

a lot of mixing options by purchasing A314, SOE, and NPA, because its a line of products that is very

diverse....plus rone, nol, and none are really the pheromones you want to focus on. Interesting thinking.

[koolking1]

has worked

best for me. Although I have other products that are just sitting collecting dust I really am entirely happy with

AE/m, SOE, A1, and now Liquid Trust all used together. For someone my age (55) that could be in better shape

(working on that now again), those products consistently get me attention from women in their 30s on up. I always

get to flirt with one or two women every time I go to the store if I wear that mix.

But, as others have

said, and it does bear repeating, you need a bit more than mones to really make things work: 1). a personality

2). smiling eyes 3). ability to discuss things outside of job and/or family. One thing I've also learned over

the years that women aren't as concerned with looks as they are with your honesty and good-naturedness. How often

have you seen some stunner with a yokel - more than a few times I'm sure. Well that yokel may have money but more

likely he's a strong stand-up kinda guy.

[Holmes]

Simplicity has worked

best for me. And yeah - sinful to say on a pheromone forum - but, in my experience, mones are about 25% of the deal.

They count, but what really counts is you.

(Enough Fred Rogers for today)

[MOBLEYC57]

For example, I

think AE+NPA is incredible (courtesy of slickracer).

... to spread the word about slickracer's AE+NPA mix,

which kicks ass.

:type: How/how much are you using of each, Smoothy?

Are you mixing them or

applying them separately?

Are you getting approached or are people just looking at you more?

Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[Rakesh]

Simplicity has

worked best for me. And yeah - sinful to say on a pheromone forum - but, in my experience, mones are about 25% of

the deal. They count, but what really counts is you.

(Enough Fred Rogers for today)

Still,

seeing as most guys today have zero game, 25 percent is an observable improvement.

And the increased

self-esteem granted by the mones (both as placebo, and by making others more interested in you) eventually improves

their game as well, getting rid of the whole "I deserve thee not, my fair lady" kicked puppy approach, which=bad.

[bronzie]

The best thread I have read in

this forum for a long time, the questions you put out should be addressed. You are absolutly correct that this site

has so many products now, that its not a case of just post your experiences and hits, but a case of overwhelm, and

not knowing what to use your hard earned cash on. Personally, I dont buy gimmick products and dont go for fads

either, this includes pheromones.

I will stick to the tried and tested products, AE, PI, SOE, NPA. The first

two products I mentioned are sold everywhere on and off the net, not just love scent, and do have a very big popular

following as the choice for many users. The second two, have been effective in my experience, and as far as I

understand are love scents "blue ribbon" products, as they hold its logo. Other products, and in my case, before I

outlay a single dollar towards thier investment to my personal development ( Like to justify .mones in this regard

otherwise I feel sneaky ) I read and dissect every post on each product that interest me. My evaluation method

probably differs from others on this forum as I do not only look at hit reports or pheromone content and

concentration, I put greater importance at looking at manufacturer, and production process, and marketing, amongst

other subtle things that give a product away as either bad or good ( at least I see it this way ). Otherwise, as we

Aussies say, you could be pissing your money in the wind.

[woofa1]

I will try and be simple and the

point.

Tried and tested for ,have been experimenting for a while now. And have found products such as AE, NPA,

SOE, and PI. Have stood the test of time.

AE= Depending on mood and application. Both social and slightly sexual.

Again depends on opposite person in question and their physiological status.

NPA= Best for sexual encounters.

Great results with this product.But person must find the right mix.Ie adding specific nol product. I find soe works

well for me.

SOE= Social settings, for me have to add slightly more than reccomended.

PI= powerfulllll.. I

must be very careful with pi, cant use to much .Have od on this one, when trying to find my outer limits. More

sexual, combination with nol product reccomended.

If you are real serious with mones, detailed analysis is

required. Ie taking notes, and being patient. Coming from a science background i have started to do this. THis is a

good method to evaluate what REALLY works for you.

Also i have found, using products alone for specific periods

of time. Then analysing outcomes, tells you what REALLY works for you. Combination comes afterwards?

Any

reports on LT,and ALPHA-7. ? GUYS, reactions with others, mood of others when used etc. Deciding to buy

all.

"imparting knowledge enriches ones soul":trout:

[bronzie]

woofa great post, yeah im aware

of your distinguished science credentials, hard to argue with a PHD.

i have similar experiences as what you

described with the products, I have Liquid Trust in my disposal and will buy Alpha 7 and A314, not sure about the

latter, but will consider buying it, as lately I have been od'ing on .none, might be the very hot weather here

lately.

[SwingerMD]

It would be nice to have just

one product that would be 100% in any situation. Unfortuantely with all of the experimenting that I have done,

haven't found that one just yet. I have used a lot of products from here and other pheromone sites. Personally, I

love to experiment. Working in research laboratories (Microbiologist), I'm very curious. And yes curiosity killed

the bank account in addition to the cat.)

There are a core number of mones that I would desribe as "tried and

true" in my arsenal. They would be: SOE, PI, RM, NPA, and A314. There are a few others that are starting to prove

useful in a lot of other non-sexual situations. I'm itchin' to try Liquid Trust and a few others that I have

heard so much about (but don't have the funds to purchase yet).

Yes, pheromones do work. Some of them well,

others not so well. The key is to understand how they work and with that understanding have the wisdom to know how

and when to use them.

-SwingerMD

[Sigma]

If you are real

serious with mones, detailed analysis is required. Ie taking notes, and being patient. Coming from a science

background i have started to do this. THis is a good method to evaluate what REALLY works for you.

Also i have

found, using products alone for specific periods of time. Then analysing outcomes, tells you what REALLY works for

you. Combination comes afterwards?

I used to view pheromone use from a highly methodical, "scientic"

perspective. I even have close to two months worth of logs detailing the results of the mixes I tried. The problem

I found with this perspective to mixing is that no matter how methodically you go about doing things, there are

always a number of unpredictable, and uncontrollable variables that can affect your mixes - what works one day,

might not do a thing the following.

I eventually started adopting a more intuitive, dare I say "artistic"

perspective to forming mixes . I even gave up testing new products individually, and rush into mixing them right

away.... I get a feel for the new products by mentally noting how they affect the nature of the products I'm

familiar with. Each product to me is treated like a specific color in the overall image I hope to project, and quite

honestly, my mixes are very different from day to day. Before putting mones on I like to think of the type of

interactions I'll be having throughout the day, and try to feel for the right combination of products to project

the appropriate image. I even keep my mones in the car, and if I feel a mix is lacking in a particular area, I'll

spice it with a little extra mones to perfection (though I've OD'd a few times doing this lol)

Initially its

best to approach things in a highly methodical fashion, just to get a feel for how things work. Your goals when

first getting into mones is building an understanding of what does what, and hopefully seeing results. Beyond that

I think most people will discover their own method of building effective mixes, depending mostly on the personality

of the user....some work more effectively approaching things more methodically, while others operate more

intuitively.

[belgareth]

I guess it depends on your

mentality. Some have good results with the artistic method. I wouldn't be able to tell a thing about results that

way and I doubt most people would. By far, the majority have the best chances of success by being methodical in

learning about pheromones.