phenomenally pheromonal molecular hybrid hypothesis

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

PREFACE: Hello, I'm the archetypical hybrid

(HEC):wave:
I'm a student majoring in neuropharmacology, organic chemistry, chemical &

mechanical engineering, and I'm conducting some private research on phenomenal pheromones as described

hereafter.

For your referances:
androsta-4,16-dien-3-one =

androstadienone
5α-androstan-3-one =

androstAnone
5α-androst-16-en-3-one = androstenone
4-androsten-3-one

= 4-androstenone

Based upon the quantitative structure-property relationships I've studied for

steroids which are active at the human female VNO, I believe that 4-ANDROSTEN-3-ONE (DESOXYTESTOSTERONE), may be

very active at the human female VNO. This hypothesis is derived from the fact that only two pheromones:

androsta-4,16-dien-3-one, and 5α-androstan-3-one are significantly active at the human female

VNO [as substantiated by an Erox study long ago titled: the sixth sense].

5α-androstan-3-one is a saturated analogue of 5α-androst-16-en-3-one (a pig

pheromone), which has an alkene group at the 16th carbon of the prototypical skeletal molecule.



5α-androst-16-en-3-one does not target the human female VNO, whereas

5α-androstan-3-one does; the only difference being the alkene group at the 16th carbon. Now,

androsta-4,16-dien-3-one, an analogue of 5α-androst-16-en-3-one is very active at the human

female VNO, the only difference between the two being an alkene group at the 4th carbon.



http://www.direct.com/images/pheromone%20SAR.JPG
From logical deduction and

quantitative structure-property relationships, I assert the following:

A) An alkene group at the 3rd carbon of

the skeletal molecule dramatically increases activity at the VNO

B) A fully saturated group at the 16th-17th

carbons also significantly increases activity.

EPILOGUE: Therefore, it is my hypothesis that

4-androsten-3-one, as a molecular hybrid containing the most desired substitutions may be very active at the human

female VNO, more so than the archetypical androsta-4,16-dien-3-one. If possible I ask for you good folks within this

esoteric paradigm to voice your opinion with respect to this hypothesis.:think:

[jvkohl]

Please comment on any

recent research that you may be familiar with that in any way indicates the human VNO is important to pheromonal

effects? I don't know of any olfactory researchers who are much interested, if at all, in pursuing its hypothetical

function. Besides, we've already learned that the main olfactory system is involved in pheromone detection in

several mammalian species that don't require a VNO to respond to pheromones with changes in

behavior.

JVK

[Visionary7903]

Hi Mr.

Archetypical Hybrid (HEC):wave:

Good to see an interesting post like that :goodpost:




Androsta-4,16-dien-3-one (A1) and estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraen-3-ol (Estratetraenol) were

both shown to activate the VNO according to Erox's studies (they do have the patent on the two compounds though):

http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryOne.html[

/FONT] (http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryOne.html)

[FONT=Arial]You wrote that 5α-androstan-3-one activates the human VNO but I have not seen any

literature supporting this assertion on the internet. In any case we can test what this compound does in real-life

as we now have AndrostAnone (the same pheromone as 5α-androstan-3-one?) available to buy as a chemistry set

item:
http:

//www.love-scent.com/product_info.php/p/androstanone/products_id/102?SID (http://www.love-scent.com/product_info.php/p/androstanone/products_id/102?SID)

As for your

hypothesis that "4-androsten-3-one, as a molecular hybrid containing the most desired substitutions may be very

active at the human female VNO, more so than the archetypical androsta-4,16-dien-3-one", well maybe someone can get

ahold of this 4-androsten-3-one and test it out. I know Steraloids.com has the compound: Item number A7098-000

...

Visionary

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

JVK,

The scope of my research is strictly

from a pharmacological standpoint with respect specifically to the vomeronasal organ. The scope of my research

within this realm of pharmacology is typically drug-design, and tweaking of the molecular structures so as to more

selectively or more significantly target a specific neuroreceptor; or, in this case, the VNO. The implications of

this organ, or its physiological response when triggered, I leave to you to interpret.;)

However, I am also

interested to learn of the physiological effects which activation of the VNO evokes; please enlighten me! I was

under the belief that this organ was the most significant in mammalian pheromonal systems; is this a

fallacy?

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

Visionary,


As for your hypothesis that

"4-androsten-3-one, as a molecular hybrid containing the most desired substitutions may be very active at the human

female VNO, more so than the archetypical androsta-4,16-dien-3-one", well maybe someone can get ahold of this

4-androsten-3-one and test it out. I know Steraloids.com has the compound: Item number A7098-000

...


Unfortunately, steraloids does not have this product in stock (it has to

be made to order). I've asked Trevor if he would be willing to synthesize a small batch affordably or even out of

curiosity! - He has not yet responded, and I eagerly await his notice!

As for

5α-androstan-3-one, look in the original Erox studies. See the following URL:

http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryOne.html, in which the

impulse responses for which various steroidal substances evoke upon the human female VNO is displayed, via a

graphical chart.

PS. Consider that if and when I do obtain this

4-androstenone, I plan to test the impulse response, using an electrogram at a nearby university, utilizing a VNO

tissue sample immersed in a bath of nutrients; an extension of the original Erox study in virtually identical

conditions.:)

PSS. I'm looking into analogues of estratetraenol as well...

[jvkohl]

JVK,

However, I am also

interested to learn of the physiological effects which activation of the VNO evokes; please enlighten me! I was

under the belief that this organ was the most significant in mammalian pheromonal systems; is this a

fallacy?

You may want to look at the Scientific Evidence page of my domain for

background info. Here's part of one abstract from the conference I will attend next week. Several other abstracts

attest to the lack of concern regarding a functional human VNO. I have no idea whose research you've followed,

since no current data supports extension of your belief to humans, and most of the importance of the VNO to other

mammals is repeatedly being questioned, as is indicated below in female mice.

VOLATILE, SEX-SPECIFIC URINARY

ODORS DETECTED BY THE MAIN OLFACTORY EPITHELIUM AUGMENT FOS EXPRESSION IN THE ACCESSORY OLFACTORY BULB OF FEMALE

MICE
Martel K.L. Botros J. Baum M.J.
Bilateral lesions of the main olfactory epithelium induced by ZnSO4

irrigation of the nares eliminated the ability of volatile male urinary odors to stimulate Fos expression in the AOB

and the MOB, suggesting that the ability of volatile male odors to activate the female´s AOB normally depends on

their detection by the main olfactory epithelium as opposed to the vomeronasal organ.



JVK

[gaf]

excuse me while I get my pointy

hat...

[Visionary7903]

Archetypical Hybrid

(HEC)

keep us updated of your findings. I mean pheromones don't necessarily have to activate the VNO

substantially to work well (think of Androsterone and Alpha-Androstenol) but the two that do a great job at

activating the VNO according to the Erox studies (Androstadienone and Estratetraenol) are both great mones (well

Estra is new but reviews have been good to great so far). So there MAY be something to activating the VNO for

REAL-LIFE results even if it is not validated by science.

So keep us updated on results you get from

4-androsten-3-one and analogues of estratetraenol both in the lab and in real-life...:thumbsup:

Visionary







Visionary,



Unfortunately,

steraloids does not have this product in stock (it has to be made to order). I've asked Trevor if he would be

willing to synthesize a small batch affordably or even out of curiosity! - He has not yet responded, and I eagerly

await his notice!

As for 5α-androstan-3-one, look in the original Erox studies. See the

following URL:

http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryOne.html, in which the

impulse responses for which various steroidal substances evoke upon the human female VNO is displayed, via a

graphical chart.

PS. Consider that if and when I do obtain this

4-androstenone, I plan to test the impulse response, using an electrogram at a nearby university, utilizing a VNO

tissue sample immersed in a bath of nutrients; an extension of the original Erox study in virtually identical

conditions.:)

PSS. I'm looking into analogues of estratetraenol as well...

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

hardy har

har

[gklite]

Mr. Archetypical

Hybrid
How can you major in neuropharmacology with mechanical engineering???

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

I already have

a degree in mechanical and chemical engineering, and am now pursuing a degree in neuroscience :thumbsup:

Thank

you for your careful scrutiny and disparagement; your concerns are appreciated

[itwow]

@Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)
Would Vomeropherins A, C, D, E12/N1 & E8/N1 be useful for males?

How do I find the trivial names & CAS no. of the chemicals (if they do exists)?

Thanks.

i2w

Estrenes for inducing hypothalamic

effects
[url]http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5633392.html?s_id=25a1612519fd658844968b63e6f1d01c[/url

]

BLUE = pro-males
RED =

pro-females

A = 1, 3, 5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-yl acetate


B = Androsta-4,16-dien-3-one (i.e. A1) [VNO-1

]
C = 1,3,5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-ol (i.e.

EST)
D = 3-Methoxy-Estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraene
E =

Androsta-4,16-dien-3.alpha.-ol
F = Androsta-4,16-dien-3.beta.-ol
G =

Androst-4-en-3-one
H = Androsta-4,16-diene-3,6-dione
J = 10,17-Dimethylgona-4,13(17)-dien-3-one
K =

1,3,5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-ol-methyl ether [E0723-080 Steraloids]
L =

1,3,5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-yl-propionate
M = 1,3,5(10)-Estratrien-3-ol [R187798

Aldrich]

E12/N1 = Estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraen-3,6.beta.-diol
E8/N1

= 3-MethoxyEstra-2,5(10),16-triene
E7/N1 = 10-HydroxyEstra-4,16-dien-3-one

OE =

olfactory epithelium
CNS = central nervous system
EVG = Electro-vomeronasogram
EOG =

Electro-olfactgram


EFFECTS ON THE EVG

- A, C and D produced

significant effects, that were consistent in all individual cases (males).

- Vomeropherins active in male

subjects produced larger responses than the diluent. B, F and similar concentrations of

olfactants induced significantly magentauced responses in the male VNO.

- Among the vomeropherins, F

produced the most significant differences within the group (females). Here, A induced a small effect that was

significantly different from F.

- In both populations of subjects, active vomeropherins induced receptor

responses having large standard deviations. When the frequency distribution of the effects of A and F was studied in

males and females respectively, we found a bimodal distribution. The significance of this observation is being

studied at this point.

E, a stereoisomer of F, does not stimulate the VNO in female subjects while

F does. This is a demonstration of the specificity of VNO recognition of vomeropherins. In this

regard it is interesting to note that while F is a superior vomeropherin, E generates a stronger

olfactory effect than does F.


EFFECTS ON THE EOG

- In contrast to the sensitivity of the

VNO to vomeropherins, the OE is less sensitive to these substances. This is true for both males and females.



- In this study, B was the only vomeropherin having significant effect in the OE.

- This

finding reveals that at the concentrations used in our study, most vomeropherins are not effective stimulants of the

olfactory receptors, but do have a clear effect on vomeronasal receptors.


REFLEX EFFECTS

-

A and C induced a significant increase in skin temperature in 30 male subjects; however D

induced significant temperature decrease.

- In 30 female subjects, B and F evoked a significant

increase in skin temperature compamagenta to A and C.

- In males, A, C and D

significantly increased alpha cortical activity (D and A evoked the strongest effect).

-

In females, B or F applied to the VNO increased alpha cortical independent of the response of

olfactory receptors.

- The steroid E12/N1 exhibited the best EEG-alpha

activity in men. The steroid E8/N1 exhibited the best EEG-beta activity

in men.

- The steroid E7/N1 exhibited the best EEG-alpha activity in women.

Additionally, it is noted that E7/N1 exhibited excellent organ response, as shown by the EVG

data, in both men and women, but there were gender differences in the CNS (high EEG-alpha in women, high EEG-beta in

men).

Sexual differences were noted in the specificities and effects of two groups of vomeropherins,

A, C and D; and B and F.

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

Dear good sir,



Please PM me with specific requests; I'm an expert within the discipline of chemical nomenclature and have

access to great quantites of data: ie. Chemical nomenclature, pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics, struture activity

relationships, supplier databases, etc.

[Icehawk]

So how does one PM HEC???

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

which

substance are you looking for?

PS.. The new "BLUE" alpha-test was substance F as described above..

[Icehawk]

E7/N1 =

10-HydroxyEstra-4,16-dien-3-one this stuff dosent seem to exist on the web.

[DrSmellThis]

I like that you're thinking

about it at this level, HEC! You go, guy!

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

E7/N1 =

10-HydroxyEstra-4,16-dien-3-one this stuff dosent seem to exist on the web.


Alas, you are correct. The

closest relatives which are available with the 4,16-dien substitutions are: 4,16-estradien-3alpha-ol and

4,16-estradien-3-one..

It could probably be made, but would need a custom synthesis (which is about $2,000)..



If either of the three aforementioned possibilites are of interest, contact Bruce to get the ball rolling..