View Full Version : Androstenone evaluation in a Japanese study
jvkohl
04-17-2006, 09:35 PM
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-2494.2005.00293.x
Females
evaluate androstenone itself
as more unpleasant than males do, and furthermore,
for only females, androstenone
enhances the
intensity and unpleasantness of other body-odor
constituents such as short-chain fatty
acids.
The full text is available from the URL provided.
JVK
Mtnjim
04-18-2006, 09:38 AM
The
Report (http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15843) posted by JVK in the Research forum
says:
"Schleidt et al. [4 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popRef%28%27b4%27%29)] did not find
any difference between males and females from Germany and Italy in the degree of pleasantness to male body odor; but
he did find sexual differentiation in Japan."
And
"The purpose of this study was to evaluate the degree of
pleasantness felt by Japanese males and females to male body odor, and to discover whether male body odor is rated
more unpleasant by females or by males.'
Since we have already discussed the differences between the races and
their reactions to ~none, do you think that this verafies what we have been saying about Asians and ~None, or do you
think the reactions are more universal?
jvkohl
04-18-2006, 11:30 AM
Since we have
already discussed the differences between the races and their reactions to ~none, do you think that this verafies
what we have been saying about Asians and ~None, or do you think the reactions are more universal?
I
think the reactions are more universal, as shown by many studies that indicate -none has consistently negative
ratings, albeit when consciously perceived. However, since data also suggests that Asians produce less -none, this
study supports the likelihood that due to less production, Asians may be more sensitive to it, and respond
negatively when it is present is lesser concentrations. This speculation would correlate well with what Forum
participants have reported in anecdotes.
JVK
Mtnjim
04-18-2006, 01:27 PM
...studies that
indicate -none has consistently negative ratings, albeit when consciously perceived...
My thoughts also.
The above I have noted, but I think it is less negative in other than Asian, and especially less negative in
ovulating women. I didn't have time to read far enough into the study to see if ovulating women were part of the
study, and if there was a difference.
Sigma
04-18-2006, 02:20 PM
I wear none around asian women all
the time and hardly notice any negative effects....I'd say the effects are quite positive.
I think Americanized
Asians respond more postively to none than those who either grew up in or are living in Asian countries....maybe how
one percieves different pheromone signiatures is more an enculturated matter, rather than a biological one. It
isn't uncommon to see asian american women dating outside of their own ethnicities nowadays, however, its pretty
rare to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).
Gegogi
04-18-2006, 04:39 PM
however, its pretty rare
to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).
I think
this statement is generally true in North America and in Asia. However here in Hawaii it is actually very common to
see White women with Asian men. I grew up in the Seattle area and most white women wouldn't even look at me. After
moving to Honolulu I was shocked to discover white women were very interested and willing. Of course Honolulu is a
melting pot and Whites are a minority here, so attitudes toward race are radically different than most of North
America.
Also, I can say White women liked me before I wore pheromones so I don't think NPA/TE changed that
aspect. It merely seems to intensify and speed things up. Like Sigma, I'm probably a near 'noneless Asian male and
can wear lots of NPA with few or no negative effects. Younger Asian women seem to be extra shy--even frightened at
first--but quickly turn into wild horndogs once they get to know me and feel safe.
koolking1
04-18-2006, 05:55 PM
there was a show on TV
Sunday night, can't remember which - 20/20 or Dateline. During the part pertaining to the book "Freakonomics" it
was purported that this author(s) could put a price on men based upon their race and then onto income. They had
studied internet dating sites to come to their conclusions. So, it was said that a white woman would 84% of the
time prefer to date a white man but that she would be willing to date a Hispanic male provided he made over $150,000
per annum; a Black male over $185,000; and then finally she would date an Asian male making over $225,000.
I
found it hard to agree with the above given my own lifetime experiences. I've had plenty of women and never did I
think that my income or race was a factor. I was thinking, in spite of my genetic predelictions, how would I rate
my own self as desirous of any particular race and I reached the conclusion that I didn't have a preference. It
was always the woman, not her whatever.
Gegogi
04-19-2006, 01:54 AM
I was thinking, in spite
of my genetic predelictions, how would I rate my own self as desirous of any particular race and I reached the
conclusion that I didn't have a preference. It was always the woman, not her whatever.
I seem to go
through stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural
and physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my
ethnicity. A huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated
a couple Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals.
Although I was really horny, that got old fast.
Sigma
04-19-2006, 12:15 PM
I seem to go through
stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural and
physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my ethnicity. A
huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated a couple
Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals. Although I was
really horny, that got old fast.
I'm the same way. I've only seriously dated one filipino girl, and
that was waaaaaay back in the day. The last few women I've dated have actually been of hispanic descent, and I've
dated quite a few vietnamese girls in the past. Never did get with a white woman though. All in all though, I see
myself settling with a filipino woman eventually, and have actually had more interest in them as of late.
Friendly1
04-19-2006, 10:11 PM
And yet, they still get
excitable around us when we wear androstenone. Much as I respect your work and expertise in the field, I have
unquestionably found The Edge to be an effective pheromone when masking it with a good cologne, or even just mixing
it with SOE or Chikara.
Surely more research is still being done with Androstenone?
jvkohl
04-19-2006, 10:56 PM
And yet, they
still get excitable around us when we wear androstenone. Much as I respect your work and expertise in the field, I
have unquestionably found The Edge to be an effective pheromone when masking it with a good cologne, or even just
mixing it with SOE or Chikara.
Surely more research is still being done with
Androstenone?
None that I know about, which includes forthcoming presentations at this year's
Association for Chemoreception Sciences. I'll be attending the conference next week. The focus seems to have
changed from androstenone to androstenol and androstadieone with regard to masculine appeal. Androsterone is a
likely third given the interest already expressed by other researchers in what I've written in a forthcoming review
article.
I don't doubt the reports of positive responses to androstenone, even though they aren't supported
by research or by the concept of human pheromones. However, since it is typically aversive, I suspect that positive
reports are more likely associated with good combos, or something more associated with the power of suggestion
rather than with measurable affects (like the LH response), or the more likely conditioned responses like those
associated with androsterone.
Besides, there will always be some women who have developed personal
preferences for scent signatures that most others find aversive. For example, outlaw bikers with less than common
personal hygeine still attract some women. Also, I was surprised by a close friend yesterday when she asked if I was
wearing SoE/men, which I was. She said I smelled different, and she liked it better than normal. This was the only
time I had been with her without showering within a few hours of our get together, and I had spent several hours
working outside in 85 degree weather. I suspect it was the rather novel smell of androstenone (on me) that got her
attention.
JVK
tim929
04-20-2006, 03:11 AM
Okay...on the race issue...I am a
troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of me?:think:
jvkohl
04-20-2006, 06:44 AM
Okay...on the race
issue...I am a troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of
me?:think:
I've never met a troll in person and there is no data to support even minimal
speculation. However, anecdotal information suggests that, as with many minorities, lack of familiarity with their
odor may lead to negative hedonic judgements. If, for example, trolls produced an abundance of squalene (a putative
pheromone in snakes) a woman's judgement of the troll's odor might lead her to state either that he is a snake, or
that he smells like one. On the other hand, without thoughtfull judgement, a woman might just spot the troll and
respond with something like "hey, look at that stinking troll." In such a case "stinking" is the operative
descriptor, as it would be in other racial epithets. This does not mean that you stink; it simply means that some
people might think you stink.
JVK
I seem to go through
stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural and
physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my ethnicity. A
huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated a couple
Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals. Although I was
really horny, that got old fast.
I agree with some of this, Over the years I've dated Hispanic,
Asian, Caucasion etc.
I love all variety of women.
DCW
Holmes
04-20-2006, 08:33 AM
Okay...on the race
issue...I am a troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of
me?:think:
Tim,
Thank you for coming out and asking for the rest of us. You're a god among
trolls.
JVK,
Your words bring solace. It's comforting to know that trolls do not, in fact, stink (not
literally, anyway).
The trolls have long been underappreciated and misreprezented (most recently in the
anti-troll propaganda piece Crash). It's about time we're given our due.
Anyway, thanks again, guys.
You've made things just a little brighter under this bridge.
jvkohl
04-20-2006, 09:06 PM
JVK,
Your
words bring solace. It's comforting to know that trolls do not, in fact, stink (not literally, anyway).
With knowledge of pheromones, perhaps more people will begin to realize the role they play in
biased/prejudicial thoughts about others, especially where group differences are involved. No matter what group you
have negative feelings towards, there is likely to be an unconscious affect of pheromones at work, just as there is
when you have positive feelings towards a particular group.
"Pause, Krauel, Schrader, Sojka, Westphal,
Müller-Ruchholtz, and Ferstl (2006) have found that the unconscious affect of HLA-related body odors occurs more
rapidly when men and women are exposed to HLA-similar donors and that subsequent evaluative processing of these
odors activates more neurons than does processing body odor from HLA-dissimilar donors. Further, when men and women
were exposed to odors from the same sex, HLA-associated brain responses were processed in different parts of the
brain: male, frontal; female parietal, which correlated with odor ratings. Pause et al. (2006) indicated that
differences in the way that men and women process HLA-associated odor signals point to the likelihood that same sex
odor plays a different role in behavior than odor from the opposite sex. Same sex odor may be most important to
male-male competitive behaviors and to female-female communal behavior. This speculation correlates with results
that show male and female adolescents recognize the odor of platonic friends (Olsson, Barnard, & Turri, 2004).
Taken together, the ability to recognize olfactory/pheromonal cues, either from communal friends or from
competitors, and the ability to differentially process or respond to these cues could play a role in establishing
long-term platonic alliances that mimic HLA-associated kinship alliances, like those found in the Israeli kibbutzim.
Olfactory/pheromonal input could bias the development and maintenance of platonic male-male, female-female,
female-male, male-female, and group alliances, which might be adaptive for cooperative efforts (for review, see Kohl
& Francoeur, 1995, 2002)." -- from Kohl (in press) The Mind's Eyes: Human Pheromones, Neuroscience, and Male Sexual
Preferences. Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality.
JVK
platinumfox
04-22-2006, 06:24 AM
its pretty rare
to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).Not true in my
area alot of Asian guys date white girls they are second to Asian ladies.
Im a black guy who loves Asian
women when I wear none based mones its either a "love/hate" reaction.This goes for Asians born in America and
Asians born in another country.So I either notice the ladies get closer or try to cover their nose somehow.
platinumfox
04-22-2006, 06:32 AM
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-2494.2005.00293.x
Females
evaluate androstenone itself
as more unpleasant than males do, and furthermore,
for only females, androstenone
enhances the
intensity and unpleasantness of other body-odor
constituents such as short-chain fatty
acids.
The full text is available from the URL
provided.
JVK
So what you are saying if I wear none or any other mone
I can alter a womans body odor?Because I notice that with Asian ladies sometimes I'll be around wearing mones but
about 15 minutes later they give off an "oily chemical odor" its the same smell with different ladies.I have no idea
if its just Chinese,Korean,Japanese etc. or its all nationalities of Asians.
platinumfox
04-22-2006, 06:35 AM
I seem to go
through stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural
and physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my
ethnicity. A huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated
a couple Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals.
Although I was really horny, that got old fast.Im in the same boat the 80s was my "white girl" phase.90s was
my"Hispanic phase".Now Im in my "Asian Phase" but I think Im staying in it for life.
I remember reading another study
(which I don't have the reference for handy, but could find), which found that women found androstenone to smell
bad EXCEPT when they were ovulating.
During ovulation, they didn't find androstenone to smell good, but
their evaluation was neutral.
Since pheromones produce more of an olfactory response when they are not active
sexually, and less when they are, (at least in terms of sexual dimorphism), one can't judge an pheromone's
effectiveness by the reaction people have to its odor. But someone who is to be affected by a pheromone probably
shouldn't be driven away by it. So it does seem at least possible that during ovulation androstenone may be
effective as an attractive pheromone for women.
An explanation for this may be found in other literature
which shows that many women look for stable partners as husbands (and probably boyfriends who are possible marriage
candidates), but look for alpha-male types for sex when they are fertile. The -none may make guys seem more
alpha-male and therefore more of a one-night-stand candiate when they're horny and fertile.
So -none based
pheromones may repel women who are not ovulating but attract those who are.
Of course there are bound to be
ethic differences, but this could explain why many people still swear by -none particularly as a quick hook-up
pheromone.
platinumfox
04-26-2006, 04:33 AM
I remember reading
another study (which I don't have the reference for handy, but could find), which found that women found
androstenone to smell bad EXCEPT when they were ovulating.
During ovulation, they didn't find androstenone
to smell good, but their evaluation was neutral.
Since pheromones produce more of an olfactory response when
they are not active sexually, and less when they are, (at least in terms of sexual dimorphism), one can't judge an
pheromone's effectiveness by the reaction people have to its odor. But someone who is to be affected by a pheromone
probably shouldn't be driven away by it. So it does seem at least possible that during ovulation androstenone may
be effective as an attractive pheromone for women.
An explanation for this may be found in other literature
which shows that many women look for stable partners as husbands (and probably boyfriends who are possible marriage
candidates), but look for alpha-male types for sex when they are fertile. The -none may make guys seem more
alpha-male and therefore more of a one-night-stand candiate when they're horny and fertile.
So -none based
pheromones may repel women who are not ovulating but attract those who are.
Of course there are bound to be
ethic differences, but this could explain why many people still swear by -none particularly as a quick hook-up
pheromone.Great post XVS I agree with the using of mones when a lady is ovulating to get great results.
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