Androstenone evaluation in a Japanese study

[jvkohl]

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-2494.2005.00293.x

Females

evaluate androstenone itself
as more unpleasant than males do, and furthermore,
for only females, androstenone

enhances the
intensity and unpleasantness of other body-odor
constituents such as short-chain fatty

acids.

The full text is available from the URL provided.

JVK

[Mtnjim]

The

Report (http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15843) posted by JVK in the Research forum

says:

"Schleidt et al. [4 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popRef%28%27b4%27%29)] did not find

any difference between males and females from Germany and Italy in the degree of pleasantness to male body odor; but

he did find sexual differentiation in Japan."

And

"The purpose of this study was to evaluate the degree of

pleasantness felt by Japanese males and females to male body odor, and to discover whether male body odor is rated

more unpleasant by females or by males.'

Since we have already discussed the differences between the races and

their reactions to ~none, do you think that this verafies what we have been saying about Asians and ~None, or do you

think the reactions are more universal?

[jvkohl]

Since we have

already discussed the differences between the races and their reactions to ~none, do you think that this verafies

what we have been saying about Asians and ~None, or do you think the reactions are more universal?

I

think the reactions are more universal, as shown by many studies that indicate -none has consistently negative

ratings, albeit when consciously perceived. However, since data also suggests that Asians produce less -none, this

study supports the likelihood that due to less production, Asians may be more sensitive to it, and respond

negatively when it is present is lesser concentrations. This speculation would correlate well with what Forum

participants have reported in anecdotes.

JVK

[Mtnjim]

...studies that

indicate -none has consistently negative ratings, albeit when consciously perceived...

My thoughts also.

The above I have noted, but I think it is less negative in other than Asian, and especially less negative in

ovulating women. I didn't have time to read far enough into the study to see if ovulating women were part of the

study, and if there was a difference.

[Sigma]

I wear none around asian women all

the time and hardly notice any negative effects....I'd say the effects are quite positive.

I think Americanized

Asians respond more postively to none than those who either grew up in or are living in Asian countries....maybe how

one percieves different pheromone signiatures is more an enculturated matter, rather than a biological one. It

isn't uncommon to see asian american women dating outside of their own ethnicities nowadays, however, its pretty

rare to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).

[Gegogi]

however, its pretty rare

to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).

I think

this statement is generally true in North America and in Asia. However here in Hawaii it is actually very common to

see White women with Asian men. I grew up in the Seattle area and most white women wouldn't even look at me. After

moving to Honolulu I was shocked to discover white women were very interested and willing. Of course Honolulu is a

melting pot and Whites are a minority here, so attitudes toward race are radically different than most of North

America.

Also, I can say White women liked me before I wore pheromones so I don't think NPA/TE changed that

aspect. It merely seems to intensify and speed things up. Like Sigma, I'm probably a near 'noneless Asian male and

can wear lots of NPA with few or no negative effects. Younger Asian women seem to be extra shy--even frightened at

first--but quickly turn into wild horndogs once they get to know me and feel safe.

[koolking1]

there was a show on TV

Sunday night, can't remember which - 20/20 or Dateline. During the part pertaining to the book "Freakonomics" it

was purported that this author(s) could put a price on men based upon their race and then onto income. They had

studied internet dating sites to come to their conclusions. So, it was said that a white woman would 84% of the

time prefer to date a white man but that she would be willing to date a Hispanic male provided he made over $150,000

per annum; a Black male over $185,000; and then finally she would date an Asian male making over $225,000.

I

found it hard to agree with the above given my own lifetime experiences. I've had plenty of women and never did I

think that my income or race was a factor. I was thinking, in spite of my genetic predelictions, how would I rate

my own self as desirous of any particular race and I reached the conclusion that I didn't have a preference. It

was always the woman, not her whatever.

[Gegogi]

I was thinking, in spite

of my genetic predelictions, how would I rate my own self as desirous of any particular race and I reached the

conclusion that I didn't have a preference. It was always the woman, not her whatever.

I seem to go

through stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural

and physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my

ethnicity. A huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated

a couple Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals.

Although I was really horny, that got old fast.

[Sigma]

I seem to go through

stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural and

physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my ethnicity. A

huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated a couple

Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals. Although I was

really horny, that got old fast.

I'm the same way. I've only seriously dated one filipino girl, and

that was waaaaaay back in the day. The last few women I've dated have actually been of hispanic descent, and I've

dated quite a few vietnamese girls in the past. Never did get with a white woman though. All in all though, I see

myself settling with a filipino woman eventually, and have actually had more interest in them as of late.

[Friendly1]

And yet, they still get

excitable around us when we wear androstenone. Much as I respect your work and expertise in the field, I have

unquestionably found The Edge to be an effective pheromone when masking it with a good cologne, or even just mixing

it with SOE or Chikara.

Surely more research is still being done with Androstenone?

[jvkohl]

And yet, they

still get excitable around us when we wear androstenone. Much as I respect your work and expertise in the field, I

have unquestionably found The Edge to be an effective pheromone when masking it with a good cologne, or even just

mixing it with SOE or Chikara.

Surely more research is still being done with

Androstenone?

None that I know about, which includes forthcoming presentations at this year's

Association for Chemoreception Sciences. I'll be attending the conference next week. The focus seems to have

changed from androstenone to androstenol and androstadieone with regard to masculine appeal. Androsterone is a

likely third given the interest already expressed by other researchers in what I've written in a forthcoming review

article.

I don't doubt the reports of positive responses to androstenone, even though they aren't supported

by research or by the concept of human pheromones. However, since it is typically aversive, I suspect that positive

reports are more likely associated with good combos, or something more associated with the power of suggestion

rather than with measurable affects (like the LH response), or the more likely conditioned responses like those

associated with androsterone.

Besides, there will always be some women who have developed personal

preferences for scent signatures that most others find aversive. For example, outlaw bikers with less than common

personal hygeine still attract some women. Also, I was surprised by a close friend yesterday when she asked if I was

wearing SoE/men, which I was. She said I smelled different, and she liked it better than normal. This was the only

time I had been with her without showering within a few hours of our get together, and I had spent several hours

working outside in 85 degree weather. I suspect it was the rather novel smell of androstenone (on me) that got her

attention.

JVK

[tim929]

Okay...on the race issue...I am a

troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of me?:think:

[jvkohl]

Okay...on the race

issue...I am a troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of

me?:think:

I've never met a troll in person and there is no data to support even minimal

speculation. However, anecdotal information suggests that, as with many minorities, lack of familiarity with their

odor may lead to negative hedonic judgements. If, for example, trolls produced an abundance of squalene (a putative

pheromone in snakes) a woman's judgement of the troll's odor might lead her to state either that he is a snake, or

that he smells like one. On the other hand, without thoughtfull judgement, a woman might just spot the troll and

respond with something like "hey, look at that stinking troll." In such a case "stinking" is the operative

descriptor, as it would be in other racial epithets. This does not mean that you stink; it simply means that some

people might think you stink.

JVK

[DCW]

I seem to go through

stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural and

physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my ethnicity. A

huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated a couple

Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals. Although I was

really horny, that got old fast.

I agree with some of this, Over the years I've dated Hispanic,

Asian, Caucasion etc.
I love all variety of women.

DCW

[Holmes]

Okay...on the race

issue...I am a troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of

me?:think:

Tim,

Thank you for coming out and asking for the rest of us. You're a god among

trolls.

JVK,

Your words bring solace. It's comforting to know that trolls do not, in fact, stink (not

literally, anyway).

The trolls have long been underappreciated and misreprezented (most recently in the

anti-troll propaganda piece Crash). It's about time we're given our due.

Anyway, thanks again, guys.

You've made things just a little brighter under this bridge.

[jvkohl]

JVK,
Your

words bring solace. It's comforting to know that trolls do not, in fact, stink (not literally, anyway).




With knowledge of pheromones, perhaps more people will begin to realize the role they play in

biased/prejudicial thoughts about others, especially where group differences are involved. No matter what group you

have negative feelings towards, there is likely to be an unconscious affect of pheromones at work, just as there is

when you have positive feelings towards a particular group.

"Pause, Krauel, Schrader, Sojka, Westphal,

Müller-Ruchholtz, and Ferstl (2006) have found that the unconscious affect of HLA-related body odors occurs more

rapidly when men and women are exposed to HLA-similar donors and that subsequent evaluative processing of these

odors activates more neurons than does processing body odor from HLA-dissimilar donors. Further, when men and women

were exposed to odors from the same sex, HLA-associated brain responses were processed in different parts of the

brain: male, frontal; female parietal, which correlated with odor ratings. Pause et al. (2006) indicated that

differences in the way that men and women process HLA-associated odor signals point to the likelihood that same sex

odor plays a different role in behavior than odor from the opposite sex. Same sex odor may be most important to

male-male competitive behaviors and to female-female communal behavior. This speculation correlates with results

that show male and female adolescents recognize the odor of platonic friends (Olsson, Barnard, & Turri, 2004).

Taken together, the ability to recognize olfactory/pheromonal cues, either from communal friends or from

competitors, and the ability to differentially process or respond to these cues could play a role in establishing

long-term platonic alliances that mimic HLA-associated kinship alliances, like those found in the Israeli kibbutzim.

Olfactory/pheromonal input could bias the development and maintenance of platonic male-male, female-female,

female-male, male-female, and group alliances, which might be adaptive for cooperative efforts (for review, see Kohl

& Francoeur, 1995, 2002)." -- from Kohl (in press) The Mind's Eyes: Human Pheromones, Neuroscience, and Male Sexual

Preferences. Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality.

JVK

[platinumfox]

its pretty rare

to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).Not true in my

area alot of Asian guys date white girls they are second to Asian ladies.

Im a black guy who loves Asian

women when I wear none based mones its either a "love/hate" reaction.This goes for Asians born in America and

Asians born in another country.So I either notice the ladies get closer or try to cover their nose somehow.

[platinumfox]

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-2494.2005.00293.x

Females

evaluate androstenone itself
as more unpleasant than males do, and furthermore,
for only females, androstenone

enhances the
intensity and unpleasantness of other body-odor
constituents such as short-chain fatty

acids.

The full text is available from the URL

provided.

JVK
So what you are saying if I wear none or any other mone

I can alter a womans body odor?Because I notice that with Asian ladies sometimes I'll be around wearing mones but

about 15 minutes later they give off an "oily chemical odor" its the same smell with different ladies.I have no idea

if its just Chinese,Korean,Japanese etc. or its all nationalities of Asians.

[platinumfox]

I seem to go

through stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural

and physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my

ethnicity. A huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated

a couple Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals.

Although I was really horny, that got old fast.Im in the same boat the 80s was my "white girl" phase.90s was

my"Hispanic phase".Now Im in my "Asian Phase" but I think Im staying in it for life.

[xvs]

I remember reading another study

(which I don't have the reference for handy, but could find), which found that women found androstenone to smell

bad EXCEPT when they were ovulating.

During ovulation, they didn't find androstenone to smell good, but

their evaluation was neutral.

Since pheromones produce more of an olfactory response when they are not active

sexually, and less when they are, (at least in terms of sexual dimorphism), one can't judge an pheromone's

effectiveness by the reaction people have to its odor. But someone who is to be affected by a pheromone probably

shouldn't be driven away by it. So it does seem at least possible that during ovulation androstenone may be

effective as an attractive pheromone for women.

An explanation for this may be found in other literature

which shows that many women look for stable partners as husbands (and probably boyfriends who are possible marriage

candidates), but look for alpha-male types for sex when they are fertile. The -none may make guys seem more

alpha-male and therefore more of a one-night-stand candiate when they're horny and fertile.

So -none based

pheromones may repel women who are not ovulating but attract those who are.

Of course there are bound to be

ethic differences, but this could explain why many people still swear by -none particularly as a quick hook-up

pheromone.

[platinumfox]

I remember reading

another study (which I don't have the reference for handy, but could find), which found that women found

androstenone to smell bad EXCEPT when they were ovulating.

During ovulation, they didn't find androstenone

to smell good, but their evaluation was neutral.

Since pheromones produce more of an olfactory response when

they are not active sexually, and less when they are, (at least in terms of sexual dimorphism), one can't judge an

pheromone's effectiveness by the reaction people have to its odor. But someone who is to be affected by a pheromone

probably shouldn't be driven away by it. So it does seem at least possible that during ovulation androstenone may

be effective as an attractive pheromone for women.

An explanation for this may be found in other literature

which shows that many women look for stable partners as husbands (and probably boyfriends who are possible marriage

candidates), but look for alpha-male types for sex when they are fertile. The -none may make guys seem more

alpha-male and therefore more of a one-night-stand candiate when they're horny and fertile.

So -none based

pheromones may repel women who are not ovulating but attract those who are.

Of course there are bound to be

ethic differences, but this could explain why many people still swear by -none particularly as a quick hook-up

pheromone.Great post XVS I agree with the using of mones when a lady is ovulating to get great results.