Why do some mones smell good to people and other don't? And Newbie Mones Experience.

[jtw2006]

Has this question been asked before?

I mean why would some

people think SOE and Chikara smell great and others think it smell like cat piss or BO?

I'm just wondering,

because maybe our sense of smell might be telling us what will work for us and what won't?

I remember in Psych

101 our instructor was telling us about our pheromones are used naturally to attract the opposite sex.

She gave

us one example and that was, there was this study where they took three sweated T-shirts from three different men.

They gave those three shirts to a woman to smell, and she found that two of them smelled absolutely nasty and she

fell in love with the three one.

I remember her saying that our pheromones carry our immune system signiture, or

something like that. Pretty much we try to look for a partner with different immunities so that when we reproduce

our off spring will have those immunities. Kind of like natural selection.

Any ideas guys? This might be alittle

out of my league being a newbie and all. But i'm just curious.

Also, here's my pheromone experience so

far.

I'm Chinese, about 5'9" 135. Hmm got the free samples and 7 gel pack of both SOE and Chikara.

Haven't

really had to much success, but i might be ODing, or maybe i need to use products with more none?

When i've used

Chikara though, i've noticed that some people around me started sneezing. Possible OD?

I want to attact college

aged woman, so i'm still working stuff out.

Tried SOE, didn't get a hit but i was playing cards with a bunch of

girls and one said that she "felt weird" like "giddy". Could that be an affect of SOE?

But i'm looking for some

stronger hits, what i'm used as dosages so far, i'm tried 1/2 gel of chikara, then the other 1/2 about 7 to 8

hours later.

Tested Chikara for about 3 to 4 days.

Used SOE once so far, and that was about 1/2 gel pack.

Than finished off the pack about 8 hours later before the card game.

I hope that helps, and thanks alot

guys.

Jon

[Gegogi]

I don't care for the smell of

most pheromone products so a nice cover scent is essential. Seems I recall most natural pheromones are near

scentless, but are carried in smelly stuff like armpit and crotch sweat.

[Sigma]

Some people are just more

sensitive to the scent of pheromones than others. Some may smell just the cover-scent and like the smell of that,

while others might pick up a hint of the mones and be put off by it. I don't know how much that has to do with the

t-shirt and immune system study you mentioned. That deals more with an unconscious repulsion of a person based on

their immune system, not the scent of the pheromones themselves. If I remember it correctly, the conclusion was

that people are attracted to those who have an immune system different from their own, and are sexually repulsed by

those with similar immune systems (aka family members).

Through experience you'll find that there is a very

broad spectrum of variance of reactions people have to pheromones. How noticable the scent of the actual pheromones

is something you always have to take into consideration, because it doesn't matter how well they work, if the

people you're around are put off by how you smell (its happened to me before). Experimentation will give you a

better idea of how much to wear in front of different people and situations. If too many people think you smell

like cat piss, tune it down a bit.

Also as Geoggi recommends, wear a cover-scent if you aren't already.

[jtw2006]

Right not I am using a cover

scent but i have tried SOE and Chikara without one before. I like the smell of both of them but maybe that's just

me?

My cover scents have been Axe Voodoo and touch. I don't know if the low quality of my cover scent is causing

no effect?

I am asian I am around mostly caucasians so should i try products with heavier none.

Thanks.

[Sigma]

Probably so, but don't jump the

gun too quickly. What products do you have right now?

[AdrenaIine]

For summer I suggest Geir ...

I got a sample from basenotes.com for.. ask around and you can get a free sample on the forums. It's mhmm mhmm

good!

[Gegogi]

If I remember it

correctly, the conclusion was that people are attracted to those who have an immune system different from their own,

and are sexually repulsed by those with similar immune systems (aka family members).

Having been hit on

a number of time by first cousins, I wonder about that. I had the impression they were fighting attraction, not

repulsion. Also it flys in the face of the father-daughter, uncle-niece or brother-sister molestation that has

become all too common. I always though we were socialized not to hit on relatives. I know in Hawaii sexual abuse of

close family members is extremely common. It is believed about 20% of all girls in Hawaii are molested by a close

family member.

Of course the urge to bust a nut may be stronger than any social or hormonal brake.

[Sigma]

Having been hit on a

number of time by first cousins, I wonder about that. I had the impression they were fighting attraction, not

repulsion. Also it flys in the face of the father-daughter, uncle-niece or brother-sister molestation that has

become all too common. I always though we were socialized not to hit on relatives. I know in Hawaii sexual abuse of

close family members is extremely common. It is believed about 20% of all girls in Hawaii are molested by a close

family member.

Of course the urge to bust a nut may be stronger than any social or hormonal brake.

I

don't buy into their findings too much myself. It seems to me that if people were really most attracted to people

with different immunity systems for their own, we'd see a much greater degree of inter-racial dating. While

inter-racial dating has become more common-place over the years (where I live anyway), I still think most people

tend to stick within their own ethnicity.

[jtw2006]

Probably so, but

don't jump the gun too quickly. What products do you have right now?

Currently i have SOE and Chikara

gel packs and all the free samples.

I might try SOE with Chikara tomorrow and see what happens. I'll be on my

campus so around the girls and social situations where i want the mones to work.

I wonder for Asians because we

don't sweat that much, atleast i don't, which might mean i need more none?

Thanks for the replies

guys.

There were some other interesting studies that our prof. told us about. But think alot of people here

already know that info.

[Sigma]

Currently i have

SOE and Chikara gel packs and all the free samples.

I might try SOE with Chikara tomorrow and see what happens.

I'll be on my campus so around the girls and social situations where i want the mones to work.

I wonder for

Asians because we don't sweat that much, atleast i don't, which might mean i need more none?

Thanks for the

replies guys.

There were some other interesting studies that our prof. told us about. But think alot of people

here already know that info.

Many of the Asian posters (Geoggi and I included) around here report seeing

better results with higher amounts of none than people of other ethnicities. Definately keep that in mind in the

future.

If you haven't already, be sure to pick up the beginner's special. I'd also recommend picking up some

NPA

[jvkohl]

I don't buy into

their findings too much myself. It seems to me that if people were really most attracted to people with different

immunity systems for their own, we'd see a much greater degree of inter-racial dating. While inter-racial dating

has become more common-place over the years (where I live anyway), I still think most people tend to stick within

their own ethnicity.

Part of pheromone production is due to hormone metabolism, another part is due

to immune system differences. Racial differences are more likely to be associated with hormone metabolism than with

the immune system differences. There is sufficient data available from non-human animal and human studies to show

that both areas of research: hormone response and immune system response are valid.

With regard to comments

on incest, most instances seem likely to be opportunistic rather than "driven" by pheromones.



JVK

[Sigma]

Part of pheromone

production is due to hormone metabolism, another part is due to immune system differences. Racial differences are

more likely to be associated with hormone metabolism than with the immune system differences. There is sufficient

data available from non-human animal and human studies to show that both areas of research: hormone response and

immune system response are valid.

With regard to comments on incest, most instances seem likely to be

opportunistic rather than "driven" by pheromones.



JVK
(http://)

Interesting.

Science isn't my

field of study, so forgive me if I'm not too scientifically savvy...but would hormone metabolism affect something

like inherent testosterone levels? If such were true, would that be the reason why asian mone productions seem to

be lower than other ethnicities?

[Gegogi]

With regard to comments on

incest, most instances seem likely to be opportunistic rather than "driven" by pheromones.

I think I

mentioned that, although in a more elegant tone: "Of course the urge to bust a nut may be stronger than any social

or hormonal brake." Nevertheless, my cousins tried to manufacture an opportunity and even tried to drive off my GF

by making her uncomfortable. Of course, we blamed it on the alcohol...

[jvkohl]

I think I mentioned

that, although in a more elegant tone: "Of course the urge to bust a nut may be stronger than any social or hormonal

brake."

Indeed you did; I apologize for jumping in without a better look at what's been posted

--and bow to your eloquence.

JVK

[jvkohl]

Interesting.

Science isn't my field of study, so forgive me if I'm not too scientifically

savvy...but would hormone metabolism affect something like inherent testosterone levels? If such were true, would

that be the reason why asian mone productions seem to be lower than other ethnicities?

Hormone levels

and metabolism have genetic underpinnings, but any discussion of race, genetics, and pheromones is better left to

others.

JVK

[bronzie]

I think I

mentioned that, although in a more elegant tone: "Of course the urge to bust a nut may be stronger than any social

or hormonal brake." Nevertheless, my cousins tried to manufacture an opportunity and even tried to drive off my GF

by making her uncomfortable. Of course, we blamed it on the alcohol...

Sexual abuse by a family

member is not opportunistic but an action driven by many factors, mostly psyciatric and nothing to do with pheromone

production. People and family members that sexually abuse thier relatives create the opportunity and action

themselves, they do not wait for a "green light" to find an opportunity to abuse. If one were to place blame on

pheromones as the drive behind sexual abuse of a family member (usually a minor), they would be totally ignorant on

the whole subject of molestation, in fact attributing that type of abhorrent behaviour to pheromones is in a sense

justifying the root cause to be very limited, which it is not.


As for first cousins hitting on you, its

more common then you think, its happened to me, its a social action or reaction to something and not pheromone

related, in fact in middle eastern culture first cousins marry each other freely without any social taboo. Again

this action has more to do with the culture of these countries then with pheromone production.

[jvkohl]

With regard to

comments on incest, most instances seem likely to be opportunistic rather than "driven" by pheromones.



JVK



Sexual abuse by a family member is not

opportunistic but an action driven by many factors, mostly psyciatric and nothing to do with pheromone

production.

Is this an opinion, or a statement that's substantiated by research? My comment is

substantiated by research.


... If one were to place blame on pheromones as the drive behind

sexual abuse of a family member (usually a minor), they would be totally ignorant on the whole subject of

molestation, in fact attributing that type of abhorrent behaviour to pheromones is in a sense justifying the root

cause to be very limited, which it is not.

Did I miss something? Who placed the blame on

pheromones?

JVK

[Gegogi]

I still think incest among close

family members usually begins as a desire to bust da nut, and a family member is more alluring than Mary Palms.

However it can and often does grow into something bigger. I had a former GF that was molested nearly everyday from

the time she was 9 to 14, and still had strong mixed feelings about him 10 years later. It probably contributed

greatly to her preference for older Asian men.

[bronzie]

Jvkohl, my statement with

regards to pheromones not playing a part in sexual abuse of a family member was not aimed to undermine anything you

said, I didn’t mention you, nor did I quote anything you said to support this, simply because you didn’t mention

anything in this regard, in fact you suggested the opposite, I don’t understand why you got so defensive with that

comment. My comments were in response to the subject matter of the overall post in which members suggested a link

and not a "blame" between pheromones and incest.

As for my statement that sexual abuse is not merely

opportunistic as you suggested in your post, yes it’s based on research and not merely my opinion. When we talk

about incest, are we talking about sexual abuse of a minor by an older family member as some members of this forum

pointed out or incest between two consenting adults that are related by blood? I presume since you used the word

“opportunistic” which has predatory overtones you meant abuse of a minor by an older related member of their family.



I could provide you a whole bibliography and countless research papers on sexual abuse of a minor within the

realm of incest and sexually motivated crimes which includes incest, and you will discover that it is not as simple

as saying, quote: “incest seems likely to be opportunistic”

You or anyone can start by reading Michel

Foucault and others on the whole subject of child sexual abuse and incest and other crimes of a sexual nature, and

you will discover its not as simple as saying its a case of opportunity. In fact, the Judiciary handling of such

crimes at least in my native country is influenced by academics that support and acknowledge the workings of the

French philosopher that I have mentioned above and other prominent psychiatrists and philosophers that deal with

this subject.

I have studied Law at University in my home country, and we paid a great deal of time

researching the workings of Foucault and others when dealing with crimes of a sexual nature which includes incest

and child abuse.

[jvkohl]

Jvkohl, my statement

with regards to pheromones not playing a part in sexual abuse of a family member was not aimed to undermine anything

you said, I didn’t mention you, nor did I quote anything you said to support this, simply because you didn’t mention

anything in this regard, in fact you suggested the opposite, I don’t understand why you got so defensive with that

comment.

Thanks for clarifying this. I didn't intend to be defensive, just ensure that nothing was

attributed to me by default, which sometimes happens.



I could provide you a whole

bibliography and countless research papers on sexual abuse of a minor within the realm of incest and sexually

motivated crimes which includes incest, and you will discover that it is not as simple as saying, quote: “incest

seems likely to be opportunistic”

Human behavior is never as simple as a simplistic statement used

in summation, or to make a point.



I have studied Law at University in my home country, and

we paid a great deal of time researching the workings of Foucault and others when dealing with crimes of a sexual

nature which includes incest and child abuse.

I've discussed these issues with many of the world's

leading researchers--most study some aspect of sexual behavior, but one: Roger Masters is an expert on Biology and

the Law. I may or may not have a broader perspective, since my focus has always been biology. Here's what I've

written in my book Precis about what's referred to as the "Law of Propriniquity (not a legal term)."


------------------
http://psycprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/archive/00000480/
"17. Chapter 10 reveals

evidence of odor-driven hormonal effects on human behavior and on sexuality, again using cross-species comparisons

that link information provided in earlier chapters. Examples supporting a link between pheromones and human

sexuality are discussed. The "Law of Propinquity" appears to be invalidated by experience with pheromones that

create more of a friendship or kinship bond, perhaps also creating an antibond effect on love. There is evidence

that humans mate for genetic diversity on the basis of unconscious odor associations, and that odors may be involved

in the Coolidge effect."
-------------------------
There may be more data from biology that supports the

simplistic "opportunistic" approach than the relatively complex approach of Foucault and others. And, with some

certainty, I suggest that an ethological perspective (e.g., cross-species comparisons), which again may be too

simplistic, also supports the opportunistic approach.

It might help me if you could summarize what you've

learned with specific regard to incest (without adding in any other crimes of a sexual

nature).

JVK

[bronzie]

Jvkhol, sorry for late reply,

just got caught up with other things, and couldn’t reply properly to your last posting.

Firstly, I just want

to make it clear, that what Roger Masters states in regard to pheromones might be true or might be false, I don’t

know, however one thing I have to stress here and that is if anyone attributed an opportunistic theory to incest

particularly the incest/sexual abuse of a minor, they would be banished as irresponsible and in fact would be a

totally absurd line to follow, if not plain demeaning to both the victims of such actions and to the community at

large, these actions are serious crimes for a reason, and cause a great deal of pain and suffering to the victims

and the people involved along with the victim. The word opportunity in this context does not only equate to

simplicity but also chance. Fact is if this were the case every parent would/could be sexually abusing their child

as the opportunity to do so is there. I think you might have chosen the wrong word to begin with or just chose a

poor word in trying to convey the meaning you were trying too. I don’t know. I read a lot of your posts and do

respect your angle on things as you are a professional in the field of biology and pheromone technology, but in this

instance I do not agree with what you said. No hard feelings.

You want me to summarize what I have learnt in

regards to incest? Most of my research with regard to incest was its root cause, and why the Legal system treats

such crimes as serious offences, .i.e. the psychological repercussions of this crime to the victim and to society at

large. I gained both a psychiatric and sociological point of view of why these crimes take place, and a profile of

an offender and of course the Legislative (Law) facet of this subject. From a psychological perspective, which I

gather is what you mean when asking me what I have learnt from incest. Its this, Incest is socially conditioned, on

the surface these actions have root in culture, whether they are deemed crimes by the society or not depends upon

the culture and society we are talking about, incest in Ancient Egypt was common place, and brothers and sisters

would marry each other without any social restraint, in fact they were encouraged. Incest was common in some

cultures and was frowned upon in others, however in most modern societies in today’s world it’s a very big taboo

with serious consequences to the people partaking in it. I am talking about incest of a consenting nature here

between two adults. Whether one root cause is the so called ophidian complex as dictated by Freud or the philosophy

of power that is conveyed by Foucault is up to debate, but both have been proven to be valid and of high influence

at least within the realm of Law and Legislature. However, incest of a minor is a totally different “kettle of

fish”, and its predatory nature and its dire effects on the victim both short term and long term warrant serious

consideration and attention, as compared to the latter (two consenting adults). Through my studies, I have

discovered Incest takes place mainly due to the physiological nature of the offender and his or her past plays a

large role, it’s a case of cause and effect, the cause must be present for the effect to exist, and nowhere did we

step on the subject of scent or chemical secretions to justify an offender’s actions. It was not even mentioned as

hearsay. And I can tell you from a Legal perspective, there have been no precedents that I know of that an offender

of incest has defended him/herself successfully in a court of Law, on the basis that he/she had malice to carry out

the act because of biology, pheromones or opportunity. Your stance is Strict biology I assume, however understanding

the offenders of these crimes you will come to the understanding that it’s a crime of psychology, sad fact is, most

offenders of incest have been sexually abused themselves. And this does cross the genetic blue print, as victims who

became offenders themselves were abused by say the church clergy etc… and later in adulthood sexually molested their

own children. What im saying here is all researched.

Might post more on this subject, and get into more

detail with greater input from different academics, but its late and want to sleep! 

As you can

understand, this is just one small area of Law, and in court a Lawyer has so much on his plate that he must rely on

professional advice from specialists in this field, most are psychiatrists at hand that have examined the offender

and give their account and assessment, and the Legislation that deals with these offences have been drafted within

this context to accommodate these professionals and of course to reflect the society they are supposed to represent.



Interesting subject, when I feel up to it, I will look through my mountain of books and reverb the

psychology of incest. As you probably understand, Law is very detailed and what you have to cram into one small

cranium is often overwhelming, you’re always going back and forth.

[Gegogi]

In the 19th and first half of the

20th century Hawaii it was common for descendants of American missionaries to intermarry (cousins, not siblings). It

kept the wealth in the family and the bloodline pure. They say it also lead to some really dumb rich kids and

widespread genetic defects in these families. The companies and trusts founded by the Congregationalist missionary

descendants still have a choke hold on land holdings in Hawaii in the 21th century.

Everything started to

change when they let brown folk vote...

[bronzie]

Gegogi, without going into the

reasons for this, there is a big problem in incest related crimes within some pacific countries, hawaii, somoa,

tonga, fiji, solomon islands and even affluent New Zealand. The law enforecement in these countries barrring Hawaii

and New Zealand, are poor, therefore we do not know the extent to how out of hand this problem has become.

Traditionally incest in these countries was "thought" to strengthen the genetics and keep the blood line, siblings

would marry each other, only to discover a high degree of mortality rates and birth defects. I Guess Charles Darwins

thoery of evolution didnt serve these people right!


I personally believe, that half castes, meaning, half

say Irish and half say Asian, or any number of combinations, are the most attractive people. There is a very simple

reason to this, behind the asthetics. Thier genetics are so diverse that, they posses a higher rate of survival, and

looked upon as attractive.

[catlord17]

Gegogi, without

going into the reasons for this, there is a big problem in incest related crimes within some pacific countries,

hawaii, somoa, tonga, fiji, solomon islands and even affluent New Zealand. The law enforecement in these countries

barrring Hawaii and New Zealand, are poor, therefore we do not know the extent to how out of hand this problem has

become. Traditionally incest in these countries was "thought" to strengthen the genetics and keep the blood line,

siblings would marry each other, only to discover a high degree of mortality rates and birth defects. I Guess

Charles Darwins thoery of evolution didnt serve these people right!


I personally believe, that half castes,

meaning, half say Irish and half say Asian, or any number of combinations, are the most attractive people. There is

a very simple reason to this, behind the asthetics. Thier genetics are so diverse that, they posses a higher rate of

survival, and looked upon as attractive.

I have always found it interesting that people born of two

different backgrounds - Japanese and American, in one case, and Whie and Black in another I observed, should so

consistently be more attractive than people of one or the other. Very interesting idea on the attractiveness of

diversity.

[jvkohl]

I was writing a more detailed reply

that got lost when I looked for the following quote from someone invoved in forensic science who review my

book:

"There have been instances in which allegations of sexual abuse have included someone's perception of

odor. A foster mother claimed to know parents had sexually abused their one-year-old child because, when the child

was returned from being at a church supper with the parents, the foster mother insisted he "smelled of sex." In the

Kelly Michaels case, the prosecution's expert testified that an aversion to tuna fish was a sign of sexual abuse

since a woman's genitals were said to smell like tuna. When interrogated, children may make comments about how

things such as semen smelled. If such questions arise, this book is one of the few sources of knowledge about odor

that brings together the scientific data in a cogent, and reasonable manner. It is also fun to read and offers a

wide range of interesting facts that will be new to most people."

Reviewed by Ralph Underwager, Institute for

Psychological Therapies.
--------------------------
Bronzie,
I appreciate the time you spent putting

together information on the legal issues. Perhaps "opportunistic" was not correct, legally. However, from a

biological perspective, the term is as good as any I can think of. There are clearly biologically driven unconscious

affective reactions associated with olfactory/pheromonal input that contribute to such crimes. I will leave it to

you and others to determine how much weight is given to biology, as our legal system -- at least in the U.S.A. --

still lies waiting to deal with issues of "My genes made me do it" or "It was the pills I was taking, or didn't

take."



As you can understand, this is just one small area of Law, and in court a Lawyer

has so much on his plate that he must rely on professional advice from specialists in this field, most are

psychiatrists at hand that have examined the offender and give their account and assessment, and the Legislation

that deals with these offences have been drafted within this context to accommodate these professionals and of

course to reflect the society they are supposed to represent.

Society, as a whole, continues to

downplay the role of olfaction and pheromones. I think it will be many years, if ever, before legislation is geared

to our more animalistic human nature, which must be legally constrained. However, the legal constraints continue to

seem somewhat ineffective, as evidenced by our current system of crime and

punishment.



JVK

[Gegogi]

Both incest and homosexuality

were viewed as relatively normal in many polynesia cultures. In fact, sex in general was free flowing. Hawaiians

didn't have to worry about VD until the arrival of white men. Believe me, the missionaries had a hell of a time

trying stop eons of cultural practice. Another oddity, true to this day, is many Hawaiians--both male and

female--appear androgynous. Often I'm not sure if natives are male or female and I normally don't have a problem

with that!

[luxveritas]

Another oddity,

true to this day, is many Hawaiians--both male and female--appear androgynous. Often I'm not sure if natives are

male or female and I normally don't have a problem with that!

I would :) wouldn't be much fun coming

home with a girl who had extra equipment. Other than that who cares. I went to a H&M in barcelona and they do not

explicidly seperate mens clothing from womens clothing. You will almost never see that in the USA. We are very

concerned about gender roles.

[DCW]

Both incest and

homosexuality were viewed as relatively normal in many polynesia cultures. In fact, sex in general was free flowing.

Hawaiians didn't have to worry about VD until the arrival of white men. Believe me, the missionaries had a hell of

a time trying stop eons of cultural practice. Another oddity, true to this day, is many Hawaiians--both male and

female--appear androgynous. Often I'm not sure if natives are male or female and I normally don't have a problem

with that!

Is Don Ho still spitting out kids, I hear that the Son of Gun has a bunch out of wedlock.

Bob Marley is no slouch either last count was 15 maybe more.


DCW