View Full Version : The "other" chemicals of love and attraction!
phersurf
03-27-2006, 06:48 PM
God, I love this stuff!
There are more important chemicals involved in attraction
and love than pheromones (sorry Bruce).
When we first become attracted to someone, our brains release
Dopamine and Norepinephrine. THe release of these 2 chemicals account for the elation, intense energy,
sleeplessness, craving, loss of appetite and focused attention we feel during this period. With men the release of
these chemicals happens much faster than women due to our more visual nature.
This accounts partly for the
reason men become so nervous to approach a woman he's attracted to. Women can't understand this because they
don't release these chamicals until they have some reason to become attracted (the man's intelligence, wit,
status, confidence, etc). This is where men seduce women (remember, he doesn't have to be seduced, he already has
dopamine and norepinephrine surging it his system based on her looks). Some men, based on their status in society,
will cause these chemicals to be released in women without any work (those bastards). Hmmm, I wonder if those girls
fainting and crying in those old Beatles films had any dopamine and norepinephrine in their brains :rolleyes:
The chemical brew surging around our brains at this time is very close to that of obsessive-compulsive
people. This couldn't possibly explain stalkers, could it!?
As the relationship progresses to sex, oxytocin
is released during orgasm. Oxytocin is responsible for creating emotional bonds and healthy interpersonal
relationships. Women release more oxytocin than men during sex, which may explain why they tend to bond much easier
at this point in the relationship.
As the relationship progresses more, vasoprssin is released. Vasopressin
seems to be responsible for long term, monogymous bonds. Some studies seem to imply that vasopressin and oxytocin
interfere with the dopamine and norepinephrine pathways, which explains why passionate love fades in a few years.
Endorphines are also released during sex. They provide a feeling of well being, and combined with oxytocin
provide strong feelings of attachement.
Just because lust, love and relationships are purely chemical (like
all emotions) doesn't make them any less magical.
Gegogi
03-27-2006, 07:02 PM
Oxytocin is responsible
for creating emotional bonds and healthy interpersonal relationships.
Sounds cool on paper. Although I
must say the more orgasms I have, the women I want to bed. And I've known a lot of women that think the same way. I
suspect opportunity as well as your social and moral upbringing also has a great deal to do with how much "bonding"
and/or sleeping around occur.
As for long monogymous bonds, that seems to be based more on culture and
opportunity, especially for men. Witness the 50% plus adultery rate in North America (I believe it's even higher in
Europe and East Asia). If I could get away with polygamy, I'd drive right in. My grandfather had 5 wives--actually
concubines--all arranged and auditioned for him by my great grandmother.
Human relationships sure are
complicated with pheromones, dopamine, norepinephrine, etc., compounded with diverse religious and social
practices.
blooot
03-28-2006, 03:55 AM
so are there sprays or gels for
these? lol:thumbsup:
tim929
03-28-2006, 05:36 AM
Sprays or gels...no...hypodermic
darts would be a better bet.
luxveritas
03-28-2006, 09:47 AM
there is a very funny and
vulgar movie called "employee of the month" that discusses this in some depth. It is a good movie along the lines of
"very bad things" film noir.
phersurf
03-28-2006, 11:48 AM
Sounds cool on
paper. Although I must say the more orgasms I have, the women I want to bed. And I've known a lot of women that
think the same way. I suspect opportunity as well as your social and moral upbringing also has a great deal to do
with how much "bonding" and/or sleeping around occur.
As for long monogymous bonds, that seems to be based
more on culture and opportunity, especially for men. Witness the 50% plus adultery rate in North America (I believe
it's even higher in Europe and East Asia). If I could get away with polygamy, I'd drive right in. My grandfather
had 5 wives--actually concubines--all arranged and auditioned for him by my great grandmother.
Human
relationships sure are complicated with pheromones, dopamine, norepinephrine, etc., compounded with diverse
religious and social practices.
I guess I shouldn't have said "monogymous" (the original liturature
I read didn't mention monogomy), long term emotional bonds would have been more accurate. Humans are not
evolutionarilly designed for monogomy.
These chemicals and the feelings they create are happening no matter
what the influences of our religious and cultural programming have on our rational minds. They are sometimes
overridden, sometimes not.
Gegogi
03-28-2006, 01:38 PM
Another oddity is one can
experience "love bonding" with multiple partners, sometimes simultaneously or in sequence. I've experienced that as
well as many of the women I've dated. I'm not merely talking about sex. These women crave a fullblown
relationship. Perhaps the oxytocin keeps them with their husband/BF (actually, probably his fat bankroll) but the
dopamine and norepinephrine keep them on my doorstep. For some it creates terrible conflicts while others enjoy the
ride.
Cullmanz Own
03-28-2006, 03:55 PM
You can buy Oxytocin and
Vasopressin online. I wonder if it would be possible to add them to a mix for greater effects. Both come in spray
bottles and must be administered through the nasal passageway. Although it would be nice to be able to administer
them like pheromones. This would cause that "I don't know what it is about him but I just can't get him out of my
mind!" effect. Hmm.. I buy vassopressin for my studies. It boosts memory and concentration. I may try adding it to
my mix and see what happens. Maybe I'll buy some oxytocin next time if my vasopressin experiment works. You never
know..
phersurf
03-28-2006, 04:07 PM
so are there
sprays or gels for these? lol:thumbsup:
Oxytocin spray -
http://www.livwell.com/oxytocin-trust.html
blooot
03-28-2006, 05:05 PM
...omg is that actually
legit?!?!?!:blink:
Gegogi
03-28-2006, 06:17 PM
A woman need not trust or even
like a man, but she can still love him or at least want to jump his bones.
Cullmanz Own
03-28-2006, 06:19 PM
LOL It's not gonna work
neway. They're both supposed to be used for personal use. I use the vasopressin for my studies. It helps me
remember easier and I can concentrate so easily. I actually do have the Deangelo book and he's great. I ordered his
new one on sex and it's damn near perfect. I've learned alot from him and my game has improved so much.
phersurf
03-28-2006, 08:22 PM
And even if it did work, it
would effect the wearer as much as the intended target. It would turn the wearer into a gulible looser. Every used
car salesman in the world would be wearing this stuff.
Yep, Deangelo has turned my game around. I'm getting
to the point that I can "see the matrix", the point in an interaction where the woman becomes attracted.
Sigma
03-28-2006, 09:04 PM
Here's an article you might
enjoy
http://samvak.tripod.com/lovepathology.html
blooot
03-28-2006, 09:33 PM
And even if it
did work, it would effect the wearer as much as the intended target. It would turn the wearer into a gulible looser.
Every used car salesman in the world would be wearing this stuff.
Yep, Deangelo has turned my game around. I'm
getting to the point that I can "see the matrix", the point in an interaction where the woman becomes
attracted.
which book is that?
jvkohl
03-28-2006, 11:30 PM
There are more
important chemicals involved in attraction and love than pheromones (sorry Bruce).
Helen Fisher
rightfully champions the role of chemicals that you claim are more important than pheromones. However, she has never
indicated to me that she thinks these other chemicals are more important than pheromones. In contrast, she is quoted
on the cover of my 1995 book: "This is science at its best, with adventure, ideas, and lots of facts..." Let's look
at the facts.
You, like many others, posit a take home message that is actually quite vague when it comes to
human attraction. I have a much more detailed explanation, for comparison.
When we first
become attracted to someone, our brains release Dopamine and Norepinephrine. THe release of these 2 chemicals
account for the elation, intense energy, sleeplessness, craving, loss of appetite and focused attention we feel
during this period. With men the release of these chemicals happens much faster than women due to our more visual
nature.
What causes the attraction? What causes the release of these chemicals? How did you conclude
that men are more visual?
"... noradrenergic, dopaminergic, serotoninergic, and opiotergic pathways... and
other brain peptides... and the complex interactions among them, are subtle but functional species-specific
influences on the electrochemical transmission of neuronal signals that the hypothalamus translates to the chemical
signal GnRH. Individually, many of these influences on the frequency and amplitude of the GnRH pulse are linked
through pharmacology and therapeutic drugs to reproductive function, sexual behavior, and various neurodegenerative
diseases..."
"... when it comes to mammalian pheromones, including putative human pheromones, their affect on
sexual behavior... may vary with a number of other likely influences on hypothalamic GnRH pulse
frequency..."
You start with two likely influences on hypothalamic GnRH pulse frequency and conclude that
they are responsible for certain effects. Instead, it is the influence of pheromones on GnRH that determines whether
other neurotransmitters that feedback on the GnRH neuronal system will affect behaviors, which are first and
foremost associated with pheromones.
JVK
phersurf
03-29-2006, 10:21 AM
I was being sort of sarcastic
when I made that comment! Just trying to stir up some interest in the thread.
When I said that men are more
visual, I was refering to initial attraction. In one of the books I read on evolutioanry psychology (can't remember
which), there was a study quoted where they showed men a bunch of photos of women of differing attractivness. The
more attractive the women, the more activity the men had in their lymbic systems. When women were shown photos of
men, no matter how attractive, they had much less activity in their lymbic systems. The implication is that men are
much more visual when it comes to attraction.
jvkohl
03-29-2006, 07:37 PM
I was being sort of
sarcastic when I made that comment! Just trying to stir up some interest in the thread.
No problem;
just wanted to add pheromonal perspective.
When I said that men are more visual, I was
refering to initial attraction. In one of the books I read on evolutioanry psychology (can't remember which), there
was a study quoted where they showed men a bunch of photos of women of differing attractivness. The more attractive
the women, the more activity the men had in their lymbic systems. When women were shown photos of men, no matter how
attractive, they had much less activity in their lymbic systems. The implication is that men are much more visual
when it comes to attraction.
Implications have different meaning for evolutionary psychologists than
for biologists. As a biologist, I'm certain that the limbic system activity is a conditioned response to
pheromones--one that has no direct biological link to visual input. Also, you refer to "initial attraction" but the
study was apparently done on adults. The development of preferences for attractive physical features begins at
birth, with sex differences in the processing of, and response to, pheromones. I recently completed an article for
publication in the Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality that makes the developmental processes quite clear.
Implications from studies of adults fail to address any developmental aspect of human sexuality, as is typical of an
evolutionary psychology approach.
JVK
Bruce
04-14-2006, 09:30 AM
Coincidentally, the company that
makes the "Liquid Trust" just sent me a sample. They are treating it as a cologne delivery type thing; heavy on the
alcohol. Once the alc evaporates, I can't smell anything there. Hard to say if there if there is enough oxytocin
there to do anything; of if it would work. Seems like I heard the stuff was *extremely* expensive (the oxytocin
itself). Maybe they don't put enough in there to do anything. I have tried vasopressin myself and there are
definite effects, but you have to spray the stuff right up your nose. You can't use it as a cologne and expect
anything to happen to my knowledge. I think you need a prescription to get it no?
I can probably order 100
bottles of this oxcytocin stuff if anyone wants to try it, but the results are iffy at best.
B
chicago
04-15-2006, 02:09 AM
I JUST GOT MY BOTTLE OF "Liquid
Trust". I WILL KEEP YOU GUYS POSTED ON MY
RESULTS.
________
Babe blonde (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/175/blonde/videos/1)
luxveritas
04-15-2006, 08:39 AM
The liquid trust looked like
a load of it. Apparently they have done some research on the use of oxytocin as a
scent.
http://news.nationalge
ographic.com/news/2005/06/0601_050601_trustpotion.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/06/0601_050601_trustpotion.html)
I dont think national geographic is easily bought.
Might be a new kind of pheromone.
after looking into it deeper, the individuals in the study were given a nasal
spray. I dont think putting things up others noses is socially acceptible yet. :)
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