Yes,Im a wacko

[tim929]

:wave: Hi everybody.I am

your friendly right wing,conspiracy theory nut case and I just wanted to have a word with you about....RFID.I am

reasonably sure that some of you have had a very good chuckle in response to some of the posts I have made on this

subject.I just thought I would take a moment to direct everybody to a website started by some nice folks devoted to

stopping something that will ultimately cost all of us what little bit of freedom we still have.

Theses nice

people arent simple minded conspiracy nuts like me...they are well educated and very well read folks with very level

heads on thier shoulders who have chosen to make a stand for whats right.I encourage everyone to have a look at

thier website and maybe even buy some of the literature that they have available on the subject.And,if you feel

alittle violated by what you discover...please feel free to drop them a note and register your support for thier

efforts.

http://www.spychips.com/index.html

Have a great day

and remember....your being watched...

[InternationalPlayboy]

Thanks for the link.

I had heard someone from that website on Coast to Coast AM's replay this morning on the way to work. I had meant to

check out their website but had forgotten until I saw this thread (6:15 am here and have had no coffee yet this

morning).

[belgareth]

This has been coming for a long

time, a National Identification Database. When I was a kid nobody had a social security card or number until they

started work. When my first daughter was born we were required to obtain one when she was born. I believe it's law

in all states but am not sure. However in many states you have to be able to produce identification on demand of a

police officer. While that does not say you have to have a government issue ID it is the only thing they'll accept.

Try getting a bank account without a social security number. The government tracks every dime you deposit. As a

small business owner I get a lot of 1099 forms. If mine don't match what others have reported having sent, the IRS

is all over it.

All were seeing is technology catching up to government wants. This has been coming for a long

time through every administration. I wonder why that is in a free nation?

[DrSmellThis]

The sheep have been lulled to

sleep by relative peace and prosperity, and overstimulated into a stupor; combined with a system of well calculated

lies by the government, media, religious leaders, "and" corporations (not that you can really distinguish among the

four). It is time for people to wake up, and the more often more sound the alarm, the fewer years, decades, or

generations (depending on the issue) we will sleep. It is a slow, but not impossible, process.

[tim929]

Tell your friends...tell your

relatives...tell your neighbors...tell the store clerk and tell the guy who does your taxes.If good people do

nothing,only then will evil triumph.From my humble(its hard to be humble when your as good as I am) perspective,this

spells the end of a nations soul.The numbering and tracking of the people as a whole could only mean one thing.This

is an issue that almost EVERYBODY has a vested interest in resisting.So dont be shy about telling the people around

you about it.The more aware people are,the better the chances of resisting it.These folks are looking for

volunteers...people who will help spread the word and help organize resistance.Help if you can...if for no other

reason than its the right thing to do.

[belgareth]

I've been sounding the alarm

about government intrusion into our lives for a very long time and intend to continue to do so. Maybe its making a

difference and maybe it isn't but I feel it is important.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Didn't want to post

this at work yesterday as all communications there are subject to monitoring. But coincidentally, notice was given

there that were are switching to a smart card system for computer access starting the first part of June. Without

your card inserted in a reader, the computer will not allow you to operate it.

I was issued my card a couple

of months ago, which contains personal information, including my photo and digital fingerprints, along with security

certificates. I tried to set up my computer yesterday and when I tried to send my certificates to "Big Brother,"

they were invalid. Turns out, I put the wrong email address on my form. I have two or three valid email addresses

for work and I got confused jumping through hoops to get the card and put down the wrong one. Now I have to go back

to the issuing office and have a corrected certificate loaded onto the card.

I used the work computer to make

an order of A314 here yesterday, with the knowledge that it may be monitored. With the move to a central access

point, I think I will have to put an end to that kind of stuff and may have to cut down on forum participation.

[tim929]

Smart cards are just the tip of

the iceberg.A smart card,in many cases actualy carries data on it...while RFID carries nothing except a 96 bit code

that is totaly unique to that specific chip.The real issue with RFID is the centralized national data base where

every piece of information possible is collected about you...including your eating habits,internet habits,clothing

preferences,favorite books...etc...

[Netghost56]

I'm not going to allow

myself to get implanted with a chip (as some employees have done recently). Not only do I value my privacy, I value

my recreation as well.

In a perfect world it wouldn't be so bad an idea, but with so many "politically correct"

paranoid fanatics these days, one has to keep his activities secret, since those fanatics love to gossip.

[InternationalPlayboy]

I didn't get to

hear much of the discussion on Coast to Coast, but the rep from the website in the OP said there is a man (I think

in Las Vegas) who has a device about the size of a pack of cigarettes. He can walk past you with this box and

download your RFID info into it as he passes and use it to trigger readers as if it was actually your implant doing

the triggering.

[DrSmellThis]

How terribly sad. Aaargh. Here

in Oregon the governor refused, and now the state is being forced to comply, under all kinds of threats. The next

license we get will all have it, even though Oregonians are fiercely independent. Everyone I know detests this

idea. Who thought as kids we'd grow up to live in a dictatorship? I really feel sorry for our kids and grandkids.

Who will take up the cause of democracy? Will it be another country?

[tim929]

I dont think there will be that

many generations that will realy have to worry about it.If the prophets of the bible were right(I am inclined to

take what they say at face value) then in the next generation or so there wont be anything left anyway.

As for

another country "taking up the cause of democracy"...Not a chance.This system is being embraced world wide.In point

of fact the United States is behind the curve on adopting RFID.Europe has been pushing for this for years.In Spain

they have adopted the "smart card" technology for debit and credit cards.RFID readers are already installed and

functional in many businesses and they are becomming quite popular.The younger generation is embracing this

technology with open arms.Over time there will be no need for any form of ID to be carried openly...you will not

need keys to open your car or your house...you will not have cash to pay for anything with and the common practice

of "floating" checks for a day or two will be totaly disposed of. Of course...those who refuse to take the mark will

be subject to prosecution,confiscation of personal property and imprisonment...because we cant have "unidentifyable"

people running around loose on the streets now...can we? They might be terrorists...in fact...only a terrorist

would refuse to take the mark...yada yada yada...you get the idea...

[belgareth]

Yup, all too well.

[belgareth]

Now that I've had a chance to

think about it I'd like to discuss this topic. On first flush I both strongly dislike the idea and see the possible

advantages to the RFID chip.

Let's start with some observations. Grocery stores track customer activity through

specials that supposedly give discounts to 'members' that use their special little cards. People love it as they

think they are getting better prices. It does help stores to narrow down the product offerings reducing costs. Web

stores track us constantly as well for much the same reasons.

Credit card companies and banks track our

activities too. Every purchase you make is registered and stored somewhere or actually in multiple places by

multiple organizations. Mostly this is done using your social security number.

Anybody with a cell phone can be

tracked fairly accurately nowadays. People don't seem to mind that much either. Unlike land line based phones, our

every call is registered in databases making it possible to track who we are and our circle of friends/associates.



So, to say that tracking us is something new isn't really true and the privacy issue goes a lot further than the

RFID chip.

On the positive side, an injured person has a much better chance of survival if their medical history

is readily available. An injured person's family is more readily reached, as is a lost child's family. RFID can

save lives.

I can see why some people would like the convienance of having their preferences readily available,

never having to carry ID and never needing to use a credit card or a door key. It does make a lot of sense to some

people. Some people also like the fact that everybody in the world seems to be tracking our activities already.

<shudder>

On the negative side, it is possible to build a massive database of every citizen and track their

every movement. The dynamics of such a database boggle the mind but it is possible and with time and money can be

done. The moment that happens, our every action, our every move becomes a matter open to scrutiny. But isn't that

already happening in this country and most of the modern world? Our daily lives are tracked already and the results

are placed up for sale all the time. The schools do it, the department of motor vehicles does it, the credit card

companies do it, stores do it and so do web sites.

Some of you might have heard a few weeks ago that a company

was selling people's cell phone call logs over the internet. Recently a newspaper was able to obtain data PUBLICLY

AVAILABLE regarding covert CIA operatives over the web. Not even the CIA is capable of securing their data and the

public is cheerfully traipsing along oblivious to the fact that their privacy is on the auction block.

In short,

I don't see the RFID chip as any more than an extension and consolidation of what is already happening. Nor do I

think they are going away. There are some serious positives to the concept but I have to ask if the utter loss of

what litte remains of our privacy and freedom is worth the gains?

If the answer is no, or even a partial no,

then we should ask ourselves what needs to be done to protect our rights and freedoms from an ever more intrusive

government?

[tim929]

On the web site,one of the

authors demonstrates a device that can be made at home for the purpose of hijacking the Veri-Chip ID card system.A

simple device and one that enables any data ascociated with that particular Veri-Chip to be easily accessed.Opening

up the possibility that with a simple hand held reader,would be identity theves can simply scan you and have thier

way with bank accounts,credit cards and so forth.

Stalkers can use RFID scanning to identify your movements over

a wide area in real time and determine at what point you are alone.The possibilities are endless for missuse.And

considering how insecure databases are now,how the hell are they going to secure an even bigger and more complex

data base that allows access by a wider variety of people?Never mind the eventual REQUIREMENT that all U.S. citizens

MUST have the RFID chip.

The law that George W. Bush signed into law is designed to eventualy dispense with the

use of cash in day to day life.Cash has two major problems.First,look at how much the treasury department just spent

redesigning the ten dollar bill to thwart counterfeiting.Counterfeiting costs the U.S. billions of dollars anualy in

terms of the lost value of currency and the cost of treasury enforcement.The second problem that will be touted to

do away with cash is the deseases that money can transmit.Cash is one of the dirtiest things you touch in the course

of the day.The second most contaminated thing you touch daily are the handles on shopping carts(no joke,study just

came out)

What this opens our scociety up to is a law that says "Also it causes all,both small and great,both

rich and poor,both free and slave,to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,so the no one can buy or sell

unless he has the mark..."(Rev.13:16-17) Sorry...I had to quote it.Amazing how a two thousand year old document can

be so timely.

While it may seem cool on the surface,this technology will be the undoing of a great many

things.You think identity theft is bad now,wait a while and it will grow many many times worse.

[belgareth]

I'm not disputing any of that

and agree with your concerns. I am asking what can be done and suggesting the RFID chip is just another part of the

already existing problem.

[belgareth]

AT&T, Group Challenge U.S. Spy Program By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer


Thu Apr 13, 2006







SAN FRANCISCO - AT&T Inc. and an Internet advocacy group are waging in

federal court a privacy battle that could expose the reach of the Bush administration's secretive domestic

wiretapping program.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation said it

obtained documents from a former AT&T technician showing that the National Security Agency is capable of monitoring

all communications on AT&T's network.
"It appears the NSA is capable

of conducting what amounts to vacuum-cleaner surveillance of all the data crossing the Internet, whether that be

people's e-mail, Web surfing or any other data," whistle-blower Mark Klein, who worked for the company for 22

years, said in a statement released by his lawyers.
U.S. District Judge

Vaughn Walker is considering whether to unseal documents that Klein provided and AT&T wants kept secret. EFF filed

the documents under seal as a courtesy to the phone company, but is seeking to unseal

them.
The EFF lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court, seeks to stop the

surveillance program that started shortly after the 2001 terror attacks. The suit is based in large part on the

Klein documents, which detail secret spying rooms and electronic surveillance equipment in AT&T

facilities.
The suit claims AT&T company not only provided direct

access to its network that carries voice and data but also to its massive databases of stored telephone and Internet

records that are updated constantly.
AT&T violated U.S. law and the

privacy of its customers as part of the "massive and illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans'

communications" without warrants, the EFF alleged.
Klein said the NSA

built a secret room at the company's San Francisco central office in 2003, adjacent to a "switch room where the

public's phone calls are routed." One of the documents under seal, Klein said, shows that a device was installed

with the "ability to sift through large amounts of data looking for preprogrammed

targets."
Other so-called secret rooms were constructed at AT&T sites

in Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego, the statement said.
Other documents under seal show that fiber optic cables from the secret room tapped into WorldNet Internet

subscribers, Klein said. The documents also instructed technicians how to connect cables to the secret room. Klein

said he was required to connect circuits that fed information to the secret room.
The NSA declined directly to address the lawsuit or Klein's allegations, which covered activities at AT&T

Corp. before SBC Communications Inc. bought it and became AT&T Inc. late last

year.
"Any discussion about actual or alleged operational issues would

be irresponsible as it would give our adversaries insight that would enable them to adjust and potentially inflict

harm to the U.S.," NSA spokesman Don Weber said.
Michael Balmoris, an

AT&T spokesman, said the San Antonio-based telecommunications company "follows all laws with respect to assistance

offered to government agencies." He declined further elaboration, saying AT&T is "not in a position to comment on

matters of national security or litigation."
President Bush

confirmed in December that the NSA has been conducting the surveillance when calls and e-mails, in which at least

one party is outside the United States, are thought to involve al-Qaida

terrorists.
In congressional hearings last week, Attorney General

Alberto Gonzales suggested the president could order the NSA to listen in on purely domestic calls without first

obtaining a warrant from a secret court established nearly 30 years ago to consider such

issues.
He said the administration, assuming the conversation related

to al-Qaida, would have to determine if the surveillance were crucial to the nation's fight against terrorism, as

authorized by Congress following the Sept. 11 attacks.

[tim929]

Seee?Seeee? I told ya it was the

END OF THE WORLD!!!! Run for your lives if you know whats good for you! Better hide all your porn first!

[belgareth]

Proposal to Implant Tracking Chips in

Immigrants

By Bill

Christensen

posted: 31

May 2006
07:04 pm ET







Scott Silverman, Chairman of the Board of VeriChip Corporation, has

proposed implanting the company's RFID tracking tags in immigrant and guest workers. He made the statement on

national television earlier this week.



Silverman was being interviewed on "Fox & Friends." Responding to the

Bush administration's call to know "who is in our country and why they are here," he proposed using VeriChip RFID

implants to register workers at the border, and then verify their identities in the workplace. He added, "We have

talked to many people in Washington about using it...."



The VeriChip is a very small Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tag

about the size of a large grain of rice. It can be injected directly into the body; a special coating on the casing

helps the VeriChip bond with living tissue and stay in place. A special RFID reader broadcasts a signal, and the

antenna in the VeriChip draws power from the signal and sends its data. The VeriChip is a passive RFID tag; since it

does not require a battery, it has a virtually unlimited life span.



RFID tags have long been used to identify animals in a variety of

settings; livestock, laboratory animals and pets have been "chipped" for decades. Privacy advocates have long

expressed concerns about this technology being used in human beings.



In a related story, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe allegedly

remarked to visiting U.S. senators Jeff Sessions (Alabama) and Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania) that microchips could be

used to track seasonal workers. "President Uribe said he would consider having Colombian workers have microchips

implanted in their bodies before they are permitted to enter the U.S. for seasonal work," Specter told Congress on

April 25.

Implanting

microchips in human beings for the purpose of monitoring is not exactly news for science fiction fans; Alfred Bester

wrote about "skull bugs" in his 1974 novel The Computer Connection:



"...you don't know what's going on in the crazy culture outside.

It's a bugged and drugged world. Ninety percent of the bods have bugs implanted in their skulls in hospital when

they're born. They're monitored constantly."
(Read more about Alfred

Bester's skull bugs)
VeriChips are legal for implantation in people in

the U.S.; see VeriChip RFID Tag Patient Implant Badges Now FDA Approved. See also a related story on a Proposed

National Worker DNA Fingerprint Database. Read more at RFID implants for guest workers, Latin leader keen on ID

chips and Chip implants for migrant workers?.



(This Science Fiction in the News story used with permission from

Technovelgy.com - where science meets fiction.)

[tim929]

I wonder to myself in the quiet

moments of my day,does anybody realy care about this kinda stuff?Here in Washington state,we have the worlds largest

and most heavily traveled ferry boat system.On the ferry run to the island I live on,there is an arrival every forty

five minuets starting at four in the morning and slowing to one arrival every hour and a half after ten PM.The last

boat arrives at two ten in the morning.These boats carry up to two hundred fifty automobiles and as many as twenty

five hundred passengers,although most boats are not filled to capacity.

In the interest of enhancing security on

both the boats and the terminal facilities,all the locks are being changed over to electronic locks keyd to a

VeriChip implanted in an ID card carried by the ferry employees.This chip takes about ten seconds to scan and clone

using off the shelf technology that costs about two hubdred bucks.So...in effect...anyone who realy wants to can

access any part of any terminal or ferry boat by simply waiting for an employee to walk by and "BEEP," its done.Does

this realy sound like a good security measure to anyone?

But they are hell bent for leather to get it up and

running as fast as possible.Just wait till yo access your bank account with a VeriChip in your drivers license.All a

thief will need to do to bankrupt you is stand close to you for a few seconds and make a withdrawal.And maybe open a

couple of dummy accounts just for fun too.This is sounding better and better all the time.

[belgareth]

Stealing an identity is quite a

bit more complicated than that. I do care about it myself but am afraid the RFID is here to stay. The question is

how deeply we are going to allow it and the government to intrude on our lives. They are talking about involuntary

implants here.

[belgareth]

Taking DNA pre-conviction widely accepted By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer


Thu Jun 29, 2006



Hoping to solve and prevent more crimes, the federal government and a

growing number of states are casting the DNA net wider by taking genetic samples from people accused but not

convicted of breaking the law.
Civil liberties advocates say the

practice makes a mockery of "innocent until proven guilty" and could overwhelm already-backlogged crime

labs.
All states take DNA from convicted criminals and enter it into

databases for use in solving crimes. But this spring, Kansas and New Mexico passed laws to start testing those only

arrested for crimes, joining California, Louisiana, Minnesota, Texas and

Virginia.
And last year, Congress said it was OK to take DNA from those

arrested for federal offenses — felonies and misdemeanors alike — and foreigners who are being detained,

whether they have been charged or not.
The idea is not new. Britain,

with one of the more aggressive DNA database programs, has done it for years.
"At first, this bothered me that we were undermining criminals' civil rights — you are innocent until

proven guilty," said Tennessee state Sen. Ron Ramsey. But "if you're talking about murder, assault and things of

that nature, law enforcement will tell you that lots of times the perpetrator has done this before. If it does solve

the crime, I'll go along with that."
Ramsey, a Republican, wants to

expand testing to those arrested for burglary and serious violent crimes such as murder, rape or

kidnapping.
The new laws let states take genetic samples upon arrest

and often before formal charges are brought. None of the state laws allow testing of people arrested for minor

crimes.
In California, the law — which passed by voter initiative

in 2004 but will not take full effect until 2009 — requires that anyone arrested for investigation of a felony

must give a DNA sample. California is phasing the measure in, starting with those accused of murder, voluntary

manslaughter or felony sex crimes.
The federal legislation passed with

little debate as part of a larger criminal justice measure.
Many of the

laws have yet to be put into practice. Kansas's new law begins Jan. 1 and will initially require that DNA be

collected from any adult arrested or juvenile taken into custody for a violent felony, such as murder or rape.

Starting in 2008, samples will be taken in all felony cases.
Laws in

all states but Kansas allow for the DNA record to be removed if the accused is not convicted, usually upon the

request of the person tested, according to Lisa Hurst, who tracks DNA legislation for the law firm Smith Alling Lane

in Washington.
"Legislators have gotten a lot more comfortable with the

concept of DNA," Hurst said. "They've gotten a lot more comfortable with what forensic DNA can do. Everyone sees it

on `CSI' ... and people are surprised that we don't take DNA from everyone who's

arrested."
But critics argue that databases could end up containing the

names of people who were found innocent.
"This is absolutely a line

that should not be crossed. You are talking about suddenly changing the very nature of the databases," said Tania

Simoncelli with the American Civil Liberties Union. "It's a very serious infringement" on the Fourth

Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.
She

said the ACLU is considering a legal challenge.
At the Innocence

Project, a group that has relied on DNA to free the wrongfully convicted, Barry Scheck warned that the labs that

will have to analyze the monumental number of samples could become too swamped to quickly process DNA lifted from

crime scenes.
In Tennessee, Ramsey's measure won wide support, he

said, but was delayed for a year while the Legislature paid for six new DNA analysts to help clear the state backlog

of evidence.
He predicted the argument for expanded testing will get a

sympathetic ear from lawmakers. He noted that fingerprints are routinely taken upon arrest. And "DNA is the

fingerprint of the 21st century."
___

On the Net:

http://www.dnaresource.com

[bronzie]

I admire the French people with

thier staunch stance on civil liberties and it goes back to thier revolution that changed the world. USA, Australia

and some parts of Europe have become controlled states. And it does not stop at Identification cards or information,

walk down pretty much any street in the UK and chances are you will be video taped. George Orwell was a prophet in

my books.

The anarchy movement is alive and well here in Greece and other parts of Europe, not that I do not

think order is good, but too much control by governments is destructive and bound to fail humanity if it continues.

All things tend to repeat themselves as history shows, even revolutions.

[Mtnjim]

Speaking of things repeating, I

have come to believe that there are forces looking to take us back into a Feudal system of government. Serfs

up!!:frustrate