View Full Version : Yes,Im a wacko
tim929
03-16-2006, 04:59 AM
:wave: Hi everybody.I am
your friendly right wing,conspiracy theory nut case and I just wanted to have a word with you about....RFID.I am
reasonably sure that some of you have had a very good chuckle in response to some of the posts I have made on this
subject.I just thought I would take a moment to direct everybody to a website started by some nice folks devoted to
stopping something that will ultimately cost all of us what little bit of freedom we still have.
Theses nice
people arent simple minded conspiracy nuts like me...they are well educated and very well read folks with very level
heads on thier shoulders who have chosen to make a stand for whats right.I encourage everyone to have a look at
thier website and maybe even buy some of the literature that they have available on the subject.And,if you feel
alittle violated by what you discover...please feel free to drop them a note and register your support for thier
efforts.
http://www.spychips.com/index.html
Have a great day
and remember....your being watched...
InternationalPlayboy
03-16-2006, 06:20 AM
Thanks for the link.
I had heard someone from that website on Coast to Coast AM's replay this morning on the way to work. I had meant to
check out their website but had forgotten until I saw this thread (6:15 am here and have had no coffee yet this
morning).
belgareth
03-16-2006, 07:38 AM
This has been coming for a long
time, a National Identification Database. When I was a kid nobody had a social security card or number until they
started work. When my first daughter was born we were required to obtain one when she was born. I believe it's law
in all states but am not sure. However in many states you have to be able to produce identification on demand of a
police officer. While that does not say you have to have a government issue ID it is the only thing they'll accept.
Try getting a bank account without a social security number. The government tracks every dime you deposit. As a
small business owner I get a lot of 1099 forms. If mine don't match what others have reported having sent, the IRS
is all over it.
All were seeing is technology catching up to government wants. This has been coming for a long
time through every administration. I wonder why that is in a free nation?
DrSmellThis
03-16-2006, 02:20 PM
The sheep have been lulled to
sleep by relative peace and prosperity, and overstimulated into a stupor; combined with a system of well calculated
lies by the government, media, religious leaders, "and" corporations (not that you can really distinguish among the
four). It is time for people to wake up, and the more often more sound the alarm, the fewer years, decades, or
generations (depending on the issue) we will sleep. It is a slow, but not impossible, process.
tim929
03-16-2006, 02:33 PM
Tell your friends...tell your
relatives...tell your neighbors...tell the store clerk and tell the guy who does your taxes.If good people do
nothing,only then will evil triumph.From my humble(its hard to be humble when your as good as I am) perspective,this
spells the end of a nations soul.The numbering and tracking of the people as a whole could only mean one thing.This
is an issue that almost EVERYBODY has a vested interest in resisting.So dont be shy about telling the people around
you about it.The more aware people are,the better the chances of resisting it.These folks are looking for
volunteers...people who will help spread the word and help organize resistance.Help if you can...if for no other
reason than its the right thing to do.
belgareth
03-16-2006, 03:54 PM
I've been sounding the alarm
about government intrusion into our lives for a very long time and intend to continue to do so. Maybe its making a
difference and maybe it isn't but I feel it is important.
InternationalPlayboy
03-17-2006, 07:51 AM
Didn't want to post
this at work yesterday as all communications there are subject to monitoring. But coincidentally, notice was given
there that were are switching to a smart card system for computer access starting the first part of June. Without
your card inserted in a reader, the computer will not allow you to operate it.
I was issued my card a couple
of months ago, which contains personal information, including my photo and digital fingerprints, along with security
certificates. I tried to set up my computer yesterday and when I tried to send my certificates to "Big Brother,"
they were invalid. Turns out, I put the wrong email address on my form. I have two or three valid email addresses
for work and I got confused jumping through hoops to get the card and put down the wrong one. Now I have to go back
to the issuing office and have a corrected certificate loaded onto the card.
I used the work computer to make
an order of A314 here yesterday, with the knowledge that it may be monitored. With the move to a central access
point, I think I will have to put an end to that kind of stuff and may have to cut down on forum participation.
tim929
03-17-2006, 11:06 AM
Smart cards are just the tip of
the iceberg.A smart card,in many cases actualy carries data on it...while RFID carries nothing except a 96 bit code
that is totaly unique to that specific chip.The real issue with RFID is the centralized national data base where
every piece of information possible is collected about you...including your eating habits,internet habits,clothing
preferences,favorite books...etc...
Netghost56
03-17-2006, 07:43 PM
I'm not going to allow
myself to get implanted with a chip (as some employees have done recently). Not only do I value my privacy, I value
my recreation as well.
In a perfect world it wouldn't be so bad an idea, but with so many "politically correct"
paranoid fanatics these days, one has to keep his activities secret, since those fanatics love to gossip.
InternationalPlayboy
03-17-2006, 07:54 PM
I didn't get to
hear much of the discussion on Coast to Coast, but the rep from the website in the OP said there is a man (I think
in Las Vegas) who has a device about the size of a pack of cigarettes. He can walk past you with this box and
download your RFID info into it as he passes and use it to trigger readers as if it was actually your implant doing
the triggering.
DrSmellThis
03-17-2006, 08:32 PM
How terribly sad. Aaargh. Here
in Oregon the governor refused, and now the state is being forced to comply, under all kinds of threats. The next
license we get will all have it, even though Oregonians are fiercely independent. Everyone I know detests this
idea. Who thought as kids we'd grow up to live in a dictatorship? I really feel sorry for our kids and grandkids.
Who will take up the cause of democracy? Will it be another country?
tim929
03-17-2006, 10:31 PM
I dont think there will be that
many generations that will realy have to worry about it.If the prophets of the bible were right(I am inclined to
take what they say at face value) then in the next generation or so there wont be anything left anyway.
As for
another country "taking up the cause of democracy"...Not a chance.This system is being embraced world wide.In point
of fact the United States is behind the curve on adopting RFID.Europe has been pushing for this for years.In Spain
they have adopted the "smart card" technology for debit and credit cards.RFID readers are already installed and
functional in many businesses and they are becomming quite popular.The younger generation is embracing this
technology with open arms.Over time there will be no need for any form of ID to be carried openly...you will not
need keys to open your car or your house...you will not have cash to pay for anything with and the common practice
of "floating" checks for a day or two will be totaly disposed of. Of course...those who refuse to take the mark will
be subject to prosecution,confiscation of personal property and imprisonment...because we cant have "unidentifyable"
people running around loose on the streets now...can we? They might be terrorists...in fact...only a terrorist
would refuse to take the mark...yada yada yada...you get the idea...
belgareth
03-17-2006, 10:34 PM
Yup, all too well.
belgareth
03-18-2006, 07:12 AM
Now that I've had a chance to
think about it I'd like to discuss this topic. On first flush I both strongly dislike the idea and see the possible
advantages to the RFID chip.
Let's start with some observations. Grocery stores track customer activity through
specials that supposedly give discounts to 'members' that use their special little cards. People love it as they
think they are getting better prices. It does help stores to narrow down the product offerings reducing costs. Web
stores track us constantly as well for much the same reasons.
Credit card companies and banks track our
activities too. Every purchase you make is registered and stored somewhere or actually in multiple places by
multiple organizations. Mostly this is done using your social security number.
Anybody with a cell phone can be
tracked fairly accurately nowadays. People don't seem to mind that much either. Unlike land line based phones, our
every call is registered in databases making it possible to track who we are and our circle of friends/associates.
So, to say that tracking us is something new isn't really true and the privacy issue goes a lot further than the
RFID chip.
On the positive side, an injured person has a much better chance of survival if their medical history
is readily available. An injured person's family is more readily reached, as is a lost child's family. RFID can
save lives.
I can see why some people would like the convienance of having their preferences readily available,
never having to carry ID and never needing to use a credit card or a door key. It does make a lot of sense to some
people. Some people also like the fact that everybody in the world seems to be tracking our activities already.
<shudder>
On the negative side, it is possible to build a massive database of every citizen and track their
every movement. The dynamics of such a database boggle the mind but it is possible and with time and money can be
done. The moment that happens, our every action, our every move becomes a matter open to scrutiny. But isn't that
already happening in this country and most of the modern world? Our daily lives are tracked already and the results
are placed up for sale all the time. The schools do it, the department of motor vehicles does it, the credit card
companies do it, stores do it and so do web sites.
Some of you might have heard a few weeks ago that a company
was selling people's cell phone call logs over the internet. Recently a newspaper was able to obtain data PUBLICLY
AVAILABLE regarding covert CIA operatives over the web. Not even the CIA is capable of securing their data and the
public is cheerfully traipsing along oblivious to the fact that their privacy is on the auction block.
In short,
I don't see the RFID chip as any more than an extension and consolidation of what is already happening. Nor do I
think they are going away. There are some serious positives to the concept but I have to ask if the utter loss of
what litte remains of our privacy and freedom is worth the gains?
If the answer is no, or even a partial no,
then we should ask ourselves what needs to be done to protect our rights and freedoms from an ever more intrusive
government?
tim929
03-18-2006, 07:55 AM
On the web site,one of the
authors demonstrates a device that can be made at home for the purpose of hijacking the Veri-Chip ID card system.A
simple device and one that enables any data ascociated with that particular Veri-Chip to be easily accessed.Opening
up the possibility that with a simple hand held reader,would be identity theves can simply scan you and have thier
way with bank accounts,credit cards and so forth.
Stalkers can use RFID scanning to identify your movements over
a wide area in real time and determine at what point you are alone.The possibilities are endless for missuse.And
considering how insecure databases are now,how the hell are they going to secure an even bigger and more complex
data base that allows access by a wider variety of people?Never mind the eventual REQUIREMENT that all U.S. citizens
MUST have the RFID chip.
The law that George W. Bush signed into law is designed to eventualy dispense with the
use of cash in day to day life.Cash has two major problems.First,look at how much the treasury department just spent
redesigning the ten dollar bill to thwart counterfeiting.Counterfeiting costs the U.S. billions of dollars anualy in
terms of the lost value of currency and the cost of treasury enforcement.The second problem that will be touted to
do away with cash is the deseases that money can transmit.Cash is one of the dirtiest things you touch in the course
of the day.The second most contaminated thing you touch daily are the handles on shopping carts(no joke,study just
came out)
What this opens our scociety up to is a law that says "Also it causes all,both small and great,both
rich and poor,both free and slave,to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,so the no one can buy or sell
unless he has the mark..."(Rev.13:16-17) Sorry...I had to quote it.Amazing how a two thousand year old document can
be so timely.
While it may seem cool on the surface,this technology will be the undoing of a great many
things.You think identity theft is bad now,wait a while and it will grow many many times worse.
belgareth
03-18-2006, 08:18 AM
I'm not disputing any of that
and agree with your concerns. I am asking what can be done and suggesting the RFID chip is just another part of the
already existing problem.
belgareth
04-14-2006, 03:53 AM
AT&T, Group Challenge U.S. Spy Program By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer
Thu Apr 13, 2006
SAN FRANCISCO - AT&T Inc. and an Internet advocacy group are waging in
federal court a privacy battle that could expose the reach of the Bush administration's secretive domestic
wiretapping program.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation said it
obtained documents from a former AT&T technician showing that the National Security Agency is capable of monitoring
all communications on AT&T's network.
"It appears the NSA is capable
of conducting what amounts to vacuum-cleaner surveillance of all the data crossing the Internet, whether that be
people's e-mail, Web surfing or any other data," whistle-blower Mark Klein, who worked for the company for 22
years, said in a statement released by his lawyers.
U.S. District Judge
Vaughn Walker is considering whether to unseal documents that Klein provided and AT&T wants kept secret. EFF filed
the documents under seal as a courtesy to the phone company, but is seeking to unseal
them.
The EFF lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court, seeks to stop the
surveillance program that started shortly after the 2001 terror attacks. The suit is based in large part on the
Klein documents, which detail secret spying rooms and electronic surveillance equipment in AT&T
facilities.
The suit claims AT&T company not only provided direct
access to its network that carries voice and data but also to its massive databases of stored telephone and Internet
records that are updated constantly.
AT&T violated U.S. law and the
privacy of its customers as part of the "massive and illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans'
communications" without warrants, the EFF alleged.
Klein said the NSA
built a secret room at the company's San Francisco central office in 2003, adjacent to a "switch room where the
public's phone calls are routed." One of the documents under seal, Klein said, shows that a device was installed
with the "ability to sift through large amounts of data looking for preprogrammed
targets."
Other so-called secret rooms were constructed at AT&T sites
in Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego, the statement said.
Other documents under seal show that fiber optic cables from the secret room tapped into WorldNet Internet
subscribers, Klein said. The documents also instructed technicians how to connect cables to the secret room. Klein
said he was required to connect circuits that fed information to the secret room.
The NSA declined directly to address the lawsuit or Klein's allegations, which covered activities at AT&T
Corp. before SBC Communications Inc. bought it and became AT&T Inc. late last
year.
"Any discussion about actual or alleged operational issues would
be irresponsible as it would give our adversaries insight that would enable them to adjust and potentially inflict
harm to the U.S.," NSA spokesman Don Weber said.
Michael Balmoris, an
AT&T spokesman, said the San Antonio-based telecommunications company "follows all laws with respect to assistance
offered to government agencies." He declined further elaboration, saying AT&T is "not in a position to comment on
matters of national security or litigation."
President Bush
confirmed in December that the NSA has been conducting the surveillance when calls and e-mails, in which at least
one party is outside the United States, are thought to involve al-Qaida
terrorists.
In congressional hearings last week, Attorney General
Alberto Gonzales suggested the president could order the NSA to listen in on purely domestic calls without first
obtaining a warrant from a secret court established nearly 30 years ago to consider such
issues.
He said the administration, assuming the conversation related
to al-Qaida, would have to determine if the surveillance were crucial to the nation's fight against terrorism, as
authorized by Congress following the Sept. 11 attacks.
tim929
04-14-2006, 04:18 AM
Seee?Seeee? I told ya it was the
END OF THE WORLD!!!! Run for your lives if you know whats good for you! Better hide all your porn first!
belgareth
06-01-2006, 08:03 PM
Proposal to Implant Tracking Chips in
Immigrants
By Bill
Christensen
posted: 31
May 2006
07:04 pm ET
Scott Silverman, Chairman of the Board of VeriChip Corporation, has
proposed implanting the company's RFID tracking tags in immigrant and guest workers. He made the statement on
national television earlier this week.
Silverman was being interviewed on "Fox & Friends." Responding to the
Bush administration's call to know "who is in our country and why they are here," he proposed using VeriChip RFID
implants to register workers at the border, and then verify their identities in the workplace. He added, "We have
talked to many people in Washington about using it...."
The VeriChip is a very small Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tag
about the size of a large grain of rice. It can be injected directly into the body; a special coating on the casing
helps the VeriChip bond with living tissue and stay in place. A special RFID reader broadcasts a signal, and the
antenna in the VeriChip draws power from the signal and sends its data. The VeriChip is a passive RFID tag; since it
does not require a battery, it has a virtually unlimited life span.
RFID tags have long been used to identify animals in a variety of
settings; livestock, laboratory animals and pets have been "chipped" for decades. Privacy advocates have long
expressed concerns about this technology being used in human beings.
In a related story, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe allegedly
remarked to visiting U.S. senators Jeff Sessions (Alabama) and Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania) that microchips could be
used to track seasonal workers. "President Uribe said he would consider having Colombian workers have microchips
implanted in their bodies before they are permitted to enter the U.S. for seasonal work," Specter told Congress on
April 25.
Implanting
microchips in human beings for the purpose of monitoring is not exactly news for science fiction fans; Alfred Bester
wrote about "skull bugs" in his 1974 novel The Computer Connection:
"...you don't know what's going on in the crazy culture outside.
It's a bugged and drugged world. Ninety percent of the bods have bugs implanted in their skulls in hospital when
they're born. They're monitored constantly."
(Read more about Alfred
Bester's skull bugs)
VeriChips are legal for implantation in people in
the U.S.; see VeriChip RFID Tag Patient Implant Badges Now FDA Approved. See also a related story on a Proposed
National Worker DNA Fingerprint Database. Read more at RFID implants for guest workers, Latin leader keen on ID
chips and Chip implants for migrant workers?.
(This Science Fiction in the News story used with permission from
Technovelgy.com - where science meets fiction.)
tim929
06-02-2006, 03:34 AM
I wonder to myself in the quiet
moments of my day,does anybody realy care about this kinda stuff?Here in Washington state,we have the worlds largest
and most heavily traveled ferry boat system.On the ferry run to the island I live on,there is an arrival every forty
five minuets starting at four in the morning and slowing to one arrival every hour and a half after ten PM.The last
boat arrives at two ten in the morning.These boats carry up to two hundred fifty automobiles and as many as twenty
five hundred passengers,although most boats are not filled to capacity.
In the interest of enhancing security on
both the boats and the terminal facilities,all the locks are being changed over to electronic locks keyd to a
VeriChip implanted in an ID card carried by the ferry employees.This chip takes about ten seconds to scan and clone
using off the shelf technology that costs about two hubdred bucks.So...in effect...anyone who realy wants to can
access any part of any terminal or ferry boat by simply waiting for an employee to walk by and "BEEP," its done.Does
this realy sound like a good security measure to anyone?
But they are hell bent for leather to get it up and
running as fast as possible.Just wait till yo access your bank account with a VeriChip in your drivers license.All a
thief will need to do to bankrupt you is stand close to you for a few seconds and make a withdrawal.And maybe open a
couple of dummy accounts just for fun too.This is sounding better and better all the time.
belgareth
06-02-2006, 03:40 AM
Stealing an identity is quite a
bit more complicated than that. I do care about it myself but am afraid the RFID is here to stay. The question is
how deeply we are going to allow it and the government to intrude on our lives. They are talking about involuntary
implants here.
belgareth
06-30-2006, 03:58 AM
Taking DNA pre-conviction widely accepted By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer
Thu Jun 29, 2006
Hoping to solve and prevent more crimes, the federal government and a
growing number of states are casting the DNA net wider by taking genetic samples from people accused but not
convicted of breaking the law.
Civil liberties advocates say the
practice makes a mockery of "innocent until proven guilty" and could overwhelm already-backlogged crime
labs.
All states take DNA from convicted criminals and enter it into
databases for use in solving crimes. But this spring, Kansas and New Mexico passed laws to start testing those only
arrested for crimes, joining California, Louisiana, Minnesota, Texas and
Virginia.
And last year, Congress said it was OK to take DNA from those
arrested for federal offenses — felonies and misdemeanors alike — and foreigners who are being detained,
whether they have been charged or not.
The idea is not new. Britain,
with one of the more aggressive DNA database programs, has done it for years.
"At first, this bothered me that we were undermining criminals' civil rights — you are innocent until
proven guilty," said Tennessee state Sen. Ron Ramsey. But "if you're talking about murder, assault and things of
that nature, law enforcement will tell you that lots of times the perpetrator has done this before. If it does solve
the crime, I'll go along with that."
Ramsey, a Republican, wants to
expand testing to those arrested for burglary and serious violent crimes such as murder, rape or
kidnapping.
The new laws let states take genetic samples upon arrest
and often before formal charges are brought. None of the state laws allow testing of people arrested for minor
crimes.
In California, the law — which passed by voter initiative
in 2004 but will not take full effect until 2009 — requires that anyone arrested for investigation of a felony
must give a DNA sample. California is phasing the measure in, starting with those accused of murder, voluntary
manslaughter or felony sex crimes.
The federal legislation passed with
little debate as part of a larger criminal justice measure.
Many of the
laws have yet to be put into practice. Kansas's new law begins Jan. 1 and will initially require that DNA be
collected from any adult arrested or juvenile taken into custody for a violent felony, such as murder or rape.
Starting in 2008, samples will be taken in all felony cases.
Laws in
all states but Kansas allow for the DNA record to be removed if the accused is not convicted, usually upon the
request of the person tested, according to Lisa Hurst, who tracks DNA legislation for the law firm Smith Alling Lane
in Washington.
"Legislators have gotten a lot more comfortable with the
concept of DNA," Hurst said. "They've gotten a lot more comfortable with what forensic DNA can do. Everyone sees it
on `CSI' ... and people are surprised that we don't take DNA from everyone who's
arrested."
But critics argue that databases could end up containing the
names of people who were found innocent.
"This is absolutely a line
that should not be crossed. You are talking about suddenly changing the very nature of the databases," said Tania
Simoncelli with the American Civil Liberties Union. "It's a very serious infringement" on the Fourth
Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.
She
said the ACLU is considering a legal challenge.
At the Innocence
Project, a group that has relied on DNA to free the wrongfully convicted, Barry Scheck warned that the labs that
will have to analyze the monumental number of samples could become too swamped to quickly process DNA lifted from
crime scenes.
In Tennessee, Ramsey's measure won wide support, he
said, but was delayed for a year while the Legislature paid for six new DNA analysts to help clear the state backlog
of evidence.
He predicted the argument for expanded testing will get a
sympathetic ear from lawmakers. He noted that fingerprints are routinely taken upon arrest. And "DNA is the
fingerprint of the 21st century."
___
On the Net:
http://www.dnaresource.com
bronzie
06-30-2006, 09:56 AM
I admire the French people with
thier staunch stance on civil liberties and it goes back to thier revolution that changed the world. USA, Australia
and some parts of Europe have become controlled states. And it does not stop at Identification cards or information,
walk down pretty much any street in the UK and chances are you will be video taped. George Orwell was a prophet in
my books.
The anarchy movement is alive and well here in Greece and other parts of Europe, not that I do not
think order is good, but too much control by governments is destructive and bound to fail humanity if it continues.
All things tend to repeat themselves as history shows, even revolutions.
Mtnjim
06-30-2006, 11:21 AM
Speaking of things repeating, I
have come to believe that there are forces looking to take us back into a Feudal system of government. Serfs
up!!:frustrate
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