How can you tell what women are out to be picked up or available?

[happyman]

I always frequent a coffee shop. Sometimes I will see a chic, alot of the times pretty

good looking just there by herself. They usually are not there very long, say like 45 minutes it seems.
I think,

hmmm. Wow. Good looking, nobody around, are they here to be hit on or to meet a guy? It is hard to tell. Some sit

out of the way in a corner in which it is kinda harder to say hi to or go over to. I saw one real nice looking

women. About 26. She was all into this book. She sat with her back to the crowd. Not looking any other way or

turning her head ever. I thought I may of seen a ring. I thought....ahhh figures. Then this dude comes in,

introduces himself, like a friggin pro, plops a seat right in her face. He was so confident it was almost over

bearing to her. But in three minutes he asked her to join him and his friends for a drink. She agreed (I got a

closer look when she was leaving. It was just a gold charm ring=no wedding ring). He went out to tell his friends

that were out side on the patio. Came back in in 4 or 5 minutes and asked her if she was ready. She sighed and said

as she was leaving "this is crazy". I was woed. She gave no indication she wanted to be picked up. No suddle clues,

she was so into her novel and sat with her back to the entire shop. I thought....naw, she is NOT here to meet

someone. When he took her out of there in three friggin minutes I was like...hmmmm how do you know?

I seen

another good looking women there the next night that totally stayed to herself as well. In the corner. I thought.

Hmmm maybe I should just go over to her like the dude did to that chic the other night. She left while I was still

lookin for a clue of her availability and if she was open to conversation. Is there a 9 out of 10 chance that if

they are there alone they are there to be picked up. Is there no way of knowing?

I know the norm:you just

gotta give it a shot and the "how will you know if you don't try". But I just want to know what are the odds? Is

there a connection with a women being by herself at a coffee shop to looking to meet a dude or is it all in the

situation? Is there any probability or do women just go to get away or to relax.

What's the deal? Getting

some insight (especially from a women) would be helpful. You see it is a small coffee shop. If I do go over and it

doesn't go good I suppose I'd either have to go back to my seat and pretend it was nothing or something. Also some

folks would see this who know me just by seeing me there. I'd look kinda silly if I did this often. Even though the

more times you try the better your odds. So I kinda am not sure on how to go about it and I want to make it a good

selection if I do choose to pull a move like the dude did the other night with that chic. It would help if I knew

how much women generally go out to be picked up and where. How do you know? Is there any way to guage?Like the one

chic...here was no body language signs or anything but the dude swooped her out of there?

Any tips, input,

or advice?

Happyman

[gaf]

Any tips, input, or

advice?
Happyman[/QUOTE]

who dares wins....
thats my advice, sitting on your ass thinking about it

gets you nowhere.:POKE:

[happyman]

Any tips, input, or

advice?
Happyman

who dares wins....
thats my advice, sitting on your ass thinking about it

gets you nowhere.:

__________________________________________________ __________

True That. But I

don't know. None of my questions are really answered. I realize there may be no real answer. But is there any input

of the probability of whether they are there to be picked up or not?

If it was a bar I would have much less

problem with this. This, is just a cozy, smaller place so it is a big step to do such being as everyone sees

everyone's moves. I just want to bank on the right ones is all.

I read all the body clues and that stuff.

But from what I seen sometimes there is No clue whatsoever. Any help on the situation and if the probability is that

they are there to be talked to by an approaching dude....or is it all simply like a guessing game or a game of

random chance.

Ian

[CptKipling]

You don't need us to answer

your questions directly, in a way they are your excuse for not approaching.

Who cares if she isn't available!

If she is, that means you have zero chance of rejection, FACT! Just do what that other guy did, by waiting around

and wondering you are only going to make yourself more apprehensive.

[tim929]

Who dares,wins! is exactly

right.Women are fickle soemtimes and when you approach a woman on the street,in a coffee shop,in the grocery

store,at a funeral or whatever,there is a chance that she is interested.Or maybe not.But if you sit on your hands

and say and do nothing about it,then you will never know.The biggest issue is comming up with an approach that is

subtle enough that you can test the waters without looking like a jackass but still let them know that you are

interested in starting a conversation with them.

In many cases,they are probably seeing someone anyway,but dont

mind the extra attention.In other cases,they are just looking for some peace and quiet so they can read a book and

relax without being disturbed.Just because a woman is seeing someone doesnt mean that there isnt a chance.Many women

play the field.Rather heavily in alot of cases.I have dated many women who are seeing more than one guy or who have

three or four guys lined up in the wings waiting for a chance at a date.Just go say hi and see what happens.

[Gegogi]

I normally go into coffee shops

to relax and listen to my iPod, read a book or surf the 'net, not to get picked up. I think most women are the

same. In fact, I find it bothersome when people talk to me when I'm focused on something. Nevertheless, if a truly

enticing woman appeared I wouldn't hesitate to avail myself of the opportunity and I think most women would feel

the same about an enticing man. However, you should be sensitive and read her signals rather than barge in. Most

guys are not enticing for most women. If she's shows interest, strike up a conversation. If she wants to rock out

with her iPod the corner, let her be.

[happyman]

I get what you folks are saying.

I guess there is no real way of knowing. And that is a GREAT SAYING. One of the best I have heard and a GREAT

guideline. "He who dares wins". I have heaqrd it before, but it isn't really used much and I forgot about that one.

EXCELLENT. I am adding it to my list of favorite sayings. Now as far as probability goes....there is none? It is as

random as the fish biting at a certain pond on 7:00 tuesday time next year? Or is there more to

it?


Happyman

[Gegogi]

It depends. I hang at a starbucks

in downtown honolulu and most of the women are with their coworkers and are married or engaged. If you try hard you

might get a fling. I don't bother. However most of the women in coffeeshops near UH Manoa are young and single (or

looking to upgrade BFs) and more disposed to biting if you seem enticing. Just stay out of political and religious

debates or you'll never get laid.

[Mick]

the worst thing that could happen

is she'll say no & that aint too bad :) my advice would be to hold eye contact enough for her to look at you 3

times but you MUST approach on the 3rd look! the 1st look = shes noticed you, 2nd look = she now knows why your

looking (lol) & 3rd look = get over here


Good luck

[SwingerMD]

Happyman,

Sometimes the

only way to guage if the person is interested is to strike up a conversation. I do agree with Gegogi that most

people go to the coffeshop to relax, have a latte, read a novel, . . . anything except for getting picked up. With

that said, it doesn't mean that they are not open to a nice chat. The overall goal is make them relax and be

comfortable with you. There are body signals that you can send/read, but if their head is buried in a book you

can't tell.

As the people above me have mentioned, the problem here is that you have "approach" anxiety.

You are thinking too far ahead (sex, date, etc) and it is giving you second, third, fourth . . . thoughts. Think in

the present. Think in the here and now. Use your curiosity. From your table, what did you see in a short span of

time (1-2 sec), that piqued your curiosity. You mentioned that she was reading a book. What is the title? Who is

the author? What do you think of it so far? Do you know any other books that this author wrote? And so on . . . .

So who is the best person to answer these questions? ;)

Go into this with the goal of satifying your

curiosity. Pratice on as many strangers that you can. If she is not interested in anything extra, no problem, you

got the answers you originally were looking for.

-SwingerMD

[fadedglory]

happyman.......like many

posting on this thread, it's sometimes hard to tell as to exactly what in the h*ll is going on......who's to say

that the scene you saw wasn't pre-arranged between the two parties (already well-acquainted with each other

already); on the flip side, like the previous postings, sometimes one must assume the position of "opportunist",

venture out and introduce one's self; there are men out there that has undergone so many rejections that they have

simply become calloused to them, thus eventually leading to a total loss of inhibition due to the fact that they

attempt more often, and become rather aggressive at it......

[happyman]

[QUOTE=SwingerMD]Happyman,

Sometimes the only way to guage if the person is interested is to strike up a

conversation. I do agree with Gegogi that most people go to the coffeshop to relax, have a latte, read a novel, . .

. anything except for getting picked up. With that said, it doesn't mean that they are not open to a nice chat.

The overall goal is make them relax and be comfortable with you. There are body signals that you can send/read, but

if their head is buried in a book you can't tell.

As the people above me have mentioned, the problem here is

that you have "approach" anxiety. and it is giving you second, third, fourth . . . thoughts. Think in the

present. Think in the here and now. Use your curiosity. From your table, what did you see in a short span of time

(1-2 sec), that piqued your curiosity. You mentioned that she was reading a book. What is the title? Who is the

author? What do you think of it so far? Do you know any other books that this author wrote? And so on . . . . So

who is the best person to answer these questions? ;)

Go into this with the goal of satifying your curiosity.

Pratice on as many strangers that you can. If she is not interested in anything extra, no problem, you got the

answers you originally were looking

for.
__________________________________________________ ____________

-"As the people above me have

mentioned, the problem here is that you have "approach" anxiety. "

ONLY IN NON-BAR, NIGHTCLUB PLACES. I can

approach many women in a night club. I was always the one in the pack doing it and my friends would always

say..."you got balls dude". It is not really the drinking. I have did it without drinking at all just fine. I feel

so much more non-carish in bars and night clubs that I have just alwyas had that way there.

Now in public

places other than those besides like offices or something when we are both waiting for something and sitting there I

am OK with that too. Pretty decent in those places.

But at stores, malls, coffee shops, etc. etc. It has

alwaus been hard for me. I do not know why. Almost to the point that I only may approach one girl out of every three

or four visits. At a bar I would approach three or four girls a night and strike up a conversation with them and

start talking.


-"You are thinking too far ahead (sex, date, etc)"

You are RIGHT! That is my

problem. I never knew it till just now. I gotta take your advice and just go with the here and the now like you

said. So just go with satisfying my curiousity at the moment huh? Don't think about any future things like dates,

sex with her, anything just be "in the now" and check it out eh?

*I mean, I do not really think of those

things consciously. But they are in my mind as I check out a chic without even directly thinking of all that. More

so the sex... Hey I am a dude....what do you want? lol

But I do get it I think....are you saying to just be

in the "here and now" and see what that brings? Are you saying just go with my suddle curiousities and play on them

on things "in the now" and nothing future related with her huh?

***I appreciate all this good advice from you

folks. Keep it coming.

Happyman

[surfs_up]

you need a good reason to be interested in who you approach, or you need to know within a few

minutes IF you'll have a reason... women (and men too) fundamentally don't like being looked at like an object on

the shelf... are you on the same wavelength or aren't you ? Two powerful things to be are A. curious about her

interests, and B. respectful of her boundaries. NLP has some good "elicitation" techniques to get an idea of what

her areas of interest are, you've got to use those techniques with genuine curiosity or you'll be a DORQUE... and

summarily blown off as bogus.... sometimes a direct question is so refreshingly candid, like "what interests you

?"

[phersurf]

Women are attracted to men with

confidence. She knows that approaching a strange woman is a risky undertaking. 99 out of 100 times they will be

friendly. The unfriendly ones aren't worth your time anyway, you've just diqualified one from the joy of your

company.

When I used to be afraid of the approach (I still am, but do it anyway), I would play out in my

head the worst case senario of what could possibly happen. I was making up history before the event even

happened!

There's a very good reason for men to have approach anxiety. Back when humans lived in groups of

50-150, everyone knew everyone else. If a male approached a female, if she turned him down, no other female would

mate with him! He had no "social proof". His status in the group would plumit, and women will only be attracted to

men of higher status then she. His genes would be weeded out with extreme prejeduce!

He could try to leave

the group and find another, which in those days was almost sure death, since humans survival is so dependant on

group cooperation.

In modern society, people run across thousands of people within days that they'll never

see again. If you approach a woman and totally crash and burn, no one else around you will even know it happened, or

care. No one is watching you! You'll never see the woman again (in most cases),and you can mark it up as

practice.

Yeah, don't we wish it was that easy! Unfortunately, 6,000 years of civilization (even less living

in cities of millions) won't override 5 million years of evolution that easy. That approach anxiety you feel is

still way too deeply ingrained on our DNA and still rears it's ugly head.

Here's a great way to think about

it. It means that you're a survivor and have survivor genes. Every one of you ancestors found a way to reproduce!

There's a line going back 5 million years of your ancestors that were able to find a mate, you have those same

genes!

[chicago]

its a numbers game , the more

you try the better the chances, i talk to has many woman has i can and see which ones i would like to take things to

another level .
________
redhead girl Cam (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/redhead-girls/)

[tim929]

"Who dares,wins!" is the motto of

the SAS...British special forces.And it realy does cut through alot of the scocial nonsense that we create.In my

younger years I would worry and wring my hands about approaching women.Should I talk to her? what should I say? what

if she doesnt like me? What if....As I have aged I have discovered that none of that realy matters.Rejection realy

isnt all that bad and most of the time,women will reject you in a polite manner anyway.No harm,no foul.But if you

never say hi you will never know if she will like you or not.I guess what Im getting at is to say,get over it and

take a chance.You never know what might happen and it could be the most exciting time of your life.

On the flip

side...you may find out that she carries pepper spray and a tazer:lol:

[Gegogi]

My former GF gets hit on

constantly and can be be rude, even insulting if the guy pushes it, especially if she is interrupted while studying

or in conversation. Of course she's unusually attractive--really attractive and smart as a whip. She actually tries

to dress badly, mess up her hair, look mean, no makeup, etc., but to no avail. She even wears a wedding ring but

isn't married! The years of constant harassment has made her bitchy and suspicious around men. On the other hand,

she prefers to intiate relationships and isn't shy.

[SwingerMD]

My former GF gets

hit on constantly and can be be rude, even insulting if the guy pushes it, especially if she is interrupted while

studying or in conversation. Of course she's unusually attractive--really attractive and smart as a whip. She

actually tries to dress badly, mess up her hair, look mean, no makeup, etc., but to no avail. She even wears a

wedding ring but isn't married! The years of constant harassment has made her bitchy and suspicious around men. On

the other hand, she prefers to intiate relationships and isn't shy.

I had a friend/coworker that

also worked in the police dept. of a nearby town that would wear a wedding to work all the time (got tired of

getting hit on all the time). There are a huge variety of women out there. Some loved getting chased others luv to

chase. You just have to be on your toes and be able learn how to quickly size-up the situation. With a women that

gets hit on all the time, you really have to be creative.

My problem is how to deal with women that appear to

swoop outta nowhere and start hitting on me. I really gotta come up with better lines than, "Hamena, hamena, hamena

. . . .". Or not get that "flabergasted jaw dropped on floor" look or (worse) automaticaly go into defensive mode.

LOL :lol:

-SwingerMD

[happyman]

My former GF gets hit on

constantly and can be be rude, even insulting if the guy pushes it, especially if she is interrupted while studying

or in conversation. Of course she's unusually attractive--really attractive and smart as a whip. She actually tries

to dress badly, mess up her hair, look mean, no makeup, etc., but to no avail. She even wears a wedding ring but

isn't married! The years of constant harassment has made her bitchy and suspicious around men. On the other hand,

she prefers to intiate relationships and isn't

shy.

__________________________________________________ ___________

Hey I do appreciate the response.

With respect:

Come on now. She is a women. They are THERE to be hit on. This is our whole basis for

existence in the past few hundred years. If she doesn't want to be hit on....just tell her to not leave the house

for crimony's sake. I can't stand the line of "I hate being hit on when I'm out in public so I do this or do that

to deter this from happening so much'....ya-da ya-da ya-da. Come now, your ex should be happy dudes want to talk

with her. She should also be thankful she is good looking. All this BS about guys bugging them.....come on. If she

is in a public place, just say "sorry but I am busy" if she doesn't want to be bothered. Or she doesn't even have

to do that just give a one ord reply to an introduction and throw the vibe like they are busy and don't want to be

bothered. Guys pick up on it. I never seen a guy keep pressing a chic when she doesn't want to be bothered in a

public place. ESPECIALLY if she say "sorry I'm busy". All this stuff about dudes continuously prying and prodding

them. Come on now. I never seen that. I have seen a few dudes carry it over board (and this isn't right or good

either by any means)but that was AFTER they had already been in conversation with the girls and the girl decided she

wasn't interested after all. That is a not right. Once a chic says "NO" or, "Sorry I'm really I'm Busy", or

especially "Let Me Be"..... in so many words....hell, you do it! I can't imagine most guys even getting it to that

level in the first place where a girl would actually have to say such. If she does it would be rare.

Bottum

line here is>Women LOVE to be desired. They WANT attention more than any other creature on this planet. It is fixed

in their genes with crazy glue and cement. So all this BS they give about guys hitting on them and how they are

bugged by that......please.

Anyway I do appreciate your response and look forward to more.

Happyman

[surfs_up]

It's the f*cked up one percent of anything that makes it hard for the decent 99%... having been with a

few awesomely beautiful, ungodly sexual women in my life...one was an international grade of model, one was a

superhooker that did a lot of trade with "squeaky clean ivy league corporate holier than thou" types of guys, one

was a beautiful insane artist.... I've seen a certain element of the male population basically crap their pants on

the spot and go friggin' nuts in their presence... women too, sometimes deranged with jealousy and competitive

alpha femme urges they can't control...

Sometimes I had to walk in front and act like a human

shield/bodyguard to deflect these crazies who will not take a hint, will not take no for an answer. There is a good

reason that celebs need a posse of trained bodyguards.

What regular guys don't appreciate is that the

exceptionally beautiful woman is rained on, day in and day out, with a torrent of propositions, deep hungry stares

into the pupils of her eyes, as if she owes everybody her magical validation, and man, guys will then turn into

angry rejected children if they don't get the response they feel the DESERVE.

I learned my lesson, much

prefer to have the company of pleasant but not too striking women with powerful sex drives and a sharp sense of

humor... enough of this starstruck red carpet BS...

This happens to guys too... if you hang out in the

entertainment scene you get used to outrageously handsome, perfectly proportioned, men with genetic blessings that

don't have to lift a finger and they get laid twice a night if they want... even they got sick of it, people

wanting to be seen talking to them, not because they gave two shits who they were, it just looks good to be seen

talking to a male model type, gay guys falling in love with them right and left even when they didn't have any gay

in them they would want to act on, older women with money and some power who claimed they would "initiate them into

the ways of the world"...

All that beauty can be a heavy load as much as it can be a gift, have it and

you'll see sides of people, people you think you know, that you never knew existed....

[bjf]

It's definitely a lot to deal

with... everyone's ego can be made with these and by these women. Sometimes they just want to live in their own

worlds and not deal with people's moments.

On the other hand, some really attractive women even play off of

it, and their ego can never get enough.

Fortunately for those who aren't fond of the heavy load, it'll die

down the older they get.

[surfs_up]

On the other hand, some really attractive women even play off of it, and their ego can never get enough.




Sure, there's the flipside to the beauty complex... living in your own personal bubble of

desirability... I've also seen my share of ridiculously manipulative beautiful people, men, women, and forms of

life in between who have ordinary mortals bending over backwards to do them a favor...

The important thing is

to keep the *locus of control* firmly rooted in yourself... when you can be respectful, appreciative, and

understanding of others WHILE holding to your *locus of control* then you can interact easily...

Others will

relate better to you if they have a gut sense that you can control your own behavior without resorting to extreme

measures... I've hung with celebs in celeb joints, just relaxing and shooting the breeze, no pressure to be

anything or say anything too too impressive (beautiful people need to kick off their shoes and be human like the

rest of us...)... and frequently some character nobody recognizes will swoop down out of nowhere and join our

conversation like he's well known to everybody there... just start rappin' away like a cousin you haven't seen in

two years, and you're thinking to yourself, WTF ??? did I know this guy from somewhere ??? Is this some important

producer or writer and I blanked out on him or is this a crazy that fell out of the woodwork ? So then you have then

"eye converstion", you look over at your bud with that "who IS this prick, or should we play along and kiss his ass

???" look, and he looks back with the "beats me dude... you think we should hose this guy ?" look... then if

nuttin' clicks after about 2 minutes of suss-out time, you fade... "oh, hey, I needa refill... hey there's

Scarlett... um great talkin2ya...".... the you do the evaporation move... whoosh, gone....

[Holmes]

Wow - prime stuff, surfs_up and everyone else! This discussion is sucking me in like a Dyson DC07 (or

its creator, come to think of it).

However...um...


that beauty can be a heavy load as

much as it can be a gift

Yeah, the grass is greener and all that, but...cry me a river. You know what

I mean?

Most things good come with a pricetag. And I dunno...taking into account all those open doors which

are often closed to the rest of us, the baggage on the beauty express seems like a blowout bargain.

At the

end of the day, the *locus of control* is where it's at. Just don't let any of those frogs hit you in the

face...

Groovy thread.

[Gegogi]

I think everyone has a right to

privacy and should be able to go about their daily tasks without constant harassment.

[chicago]

guys must be a little cocky with

woman. ( i said a little and dont be abusive). to create attraction. woman get turn off by wusses. they love cocky

and confidence in a man. yesterday a attractive girl at dunkin donuts ask me what time is it. i said its time for

you to buy a watch. she slap my arm and ended up talking to me 20 min, we exchange cell numbers, i had on about 6

in" of soe on
________
AMETUER XXX (http://www.fucktube.com/)

[Holmes]

I think everyone has

a right to privacy and should be able to go about their daily tasks without constant harassment.

I

agree!

I didn't mean to imply that a heavier tax should be levied on the beautiful because of their

beauty - that they deserve the extra burden of sycophants, gawkers, and creeps. I'm just saying it is what

it is and take the bad with the good.

[phersurf]

guys must be a

little cocky with woman. ( i said a little and dont be abusive). to create attraction. woman get turn off by

wusses. they love cocky and confidence in a man. yesterday a attractive girl at dunkin donuts ask me what time is

it. i said its time for you to buy a watch. she slap my arm and ended up talking to me 20 min, we exchange cell

numbers, i had on about 6 in" of soe on

Absolutely correct!

YOu can't bore a woman into

feeling attraction for you.

If you approach her with the stuff she hears from every other guy, she just puts

you into the generic "boring guy" catagory in her brain.

The human brain is created to seek out novel

experiences and gets easily bored by the normal. If you apporach and tell her how beautiful her eyes are (just like

every other guy that thought he was being unique) you've just created instant boredom.

What Chicago did is

so much different than 99% of the guys out there (especially if she was hot), that it tweaked her "this guy is going

to be another boring guy" sensor and actually got her attraction mechanism going.

Nice!

[Pretzel]

Come on now. She is a

women. They are THERE to be hit on. This is our whole basis for existence in the past few hundred years. If she

doesn't want to be hit on....just tell her to not leave the house for crimony's sake.
Complete and

utter BS!!!


Guys pick up on it. I never seen a guy keep pressing a chic when she doesn't want to be

bothered in a public place.
Errr....again, wrong. It happens to women all the time.


ESPECIALLY

if she say "sorry I'm busy".
Some guys just don't take a hint!!



Bottum line here is>Women

LOVE to be desired. They WANT attention more than any other creature on this planet. It is fixed in their genes with

crazy glue and cement. So all this BS they give about guys hitting on them and how they are bugged by

that......please.
Actually, some of us do actually go to coffee shops TO DRINK COFFEE! If I was looking

for a guy, that would be the last place I'd go to find one! I just want to chill, drink coffee without being

harrassed, as other people have stated here. If I wanted to pick someone up in an overt way, I'd go to a pickup

joint. Most women are the same.

Misconceptions about women like this, that we are all prickteasers begging for

attention really, don't do much to further gender relations. To the poorly informed male minority, who treat women

as pawns in a game, and attribute all kinds of ulterior motives and manipulation to us....get over yourselves! If

you learn to treat women as individuals, you may end up less bitter and twisted...and in a happy, fulfilling

relationship one day...

[Friendly1]

happyman,

It would be

interesting if you could recount the conversation the guy in the coffee shop had with the girl. It sounds like he

tested the waters and proceeded with caution, but probably had a fair amount of practice at getting a girl to open

up.

I agree with Pretzel. The girls are not "out there" looking for the next available guy. But they are usually

open to meeting new people, and after they meet you they'll subconsciously put you in some sort of category.



When I had lunch today as I walked in the door of the restaurant I noticed a cute woman sitting at a table with a

man. She had taken her shoes off and crossed one leg over her knee. She was "sexually open".

We made eye contact

and she almost immediately closed me out in several ways, one of which was to uncross her legs and cross other one

over the first.

When I sat down where I could observe them, she held her left hand up beside her hand,

ring-flashing me (and she literally was wearing a ring -- I am sure the man she was with was her husband).

Her

companion was oblivious to all this, but she was instantly aware that I was checking her out even though I devoted

most of my attention to other directions and was not looking at her out of the corner of my eye.

Most guys just

don't learn to pick up on the subtle cues of body language. A girl may go into a coffee shop totally uninterested

in the rest of the world, but if she looks up and sees a cute guy, she might shift gears if she sees he has some

potential.

If he comes over and introduces himself like a gentleman, isn't obviously checking out all the other

girls or hitting on them, etc., and makes her feel comfortable, he has a good chance of inducing her to join a

conversation with him.

She may nonetheless be sick, on a tight schedule, waiting to meet someone else, etc. All

he can do is make the effort and respect whatever signals she gives off in response to his overtures.

[SwingerMD]

You are RIGHT! That is my

problem. I never knew it till just now. I gotta take your advice and just go with the here and the now like you

said. So just go with satisfying my curiousity at the moment huh? Don't think about any future things like dates,

sex with her, anything just be "in the now" and check it out eh?

*I mean, I do not really think of those things

consciously. But they are in my mind as I check out a chic without even directly thinking of all that. More so the

sex... Hey I am a dude....what do you want? lol

But I do get it I think....are you saying to just be in the "here

and now" and see what that brings? Are you saying just go with my suddle curiousities and play on them on things "in

the now" and nothing future related with her huh?

It at depends on the situation. Situational awareness

is the key. You'll act differently in a coffee shop than at the local club. Personally I like to keep the

conversation friendly, amusing, and a tad teasing (if the other person seems open). Being helpful and a gentleman

with just about anyone (think of it as practice in the very least). Opening doors/holding them open, helping

others, . . . all w/o the thought of compensation in any form (yes I am an Eagle Scout). It may or may not score

points with the person you're helping, but you never know who's watching ;) :D .

-SwingerMD

[happyman]

Chicago Wrote:

"guys must

be a little cocky with woman. ( i said a little and dont be abusive). to create attraction. woman get turn off by

wusses. they love cocky and confidence in a

man."

__________________________________________________ __________


All true my friend, all true. I

am kinda sick of hearin the "you gotta see what a womens intrests are", or "you gotta talk to her about

herself"....ya-da, ya-da, ya-da.

Whenever I see a dude macking on a chic he is usually full of

HIMSELF.
She responds with excitement and he talks mostly, not all, but 90% about himself. I NEVER really see the

conventional :Guy approaches woman=Guy talks to woman about her intrests and her=Guy acts sensative to what her

responses are and gets her number, or leaves with her.

Usually the dude could care less. He just approaches

her like....hey, I know that you know your hot. And I know that you know I know your hot...and I am the man.....so

what Up?

Then he may babble about himself and then swoops her out of there while she seems flirty with him

all the while.

Any time I have picked up a chic
A. I didn't really care about her and she responded to

that
B. I was just talking to her not thinking of getting it on with her at all.

This nice guy stuff DOES

NOT work guys. And gals....say what you will, but you know I'm right. They always like the bad boy, they always go

with the jerk in the end.

That is why you gotta give the vibe like:hey, I know that you know your hot. And I

know that you know I know your hot...and I am the man.....so what Up? You gotta tease her a little and act like your

kind of a sexual being.

Trust me. I've done it, and I see it ALL THE TIME. Most of the time when I didn't

even realize it till down the road was when I was doing it.

This stuff about being responsive to her, and

talk to her about her....nahhhh dudes. Approach, take control (without you know....lol being a blutto or something),

act cocky and like a sexual being, kinda interested in getting something going. And THAT IS THE

FORMULA.

Trust me: I wish it weren't. I am just a nice dude. I am not a whoosie. I never let a girl order

me, or anything and I always do my own thing but I am just a nice guy with a friendly attitude. Sure I am kinda

cocky, but in a genuine, funny way. I am not an ass and I don't act better than everyone (at least this is what I

am told lol). I wish this was the formula. It would be so natural, for me at least. It isn't guys. I actually have

to put on a phoney act to mack on a chic. And the thing is, I think they may sense it is phoney but they don't

care. It is like they just follow the script. Seriously. I get in the car with a number, or leave them and it is

almost like I let out a sigh and take off my mask. I am tellin you they feed off this. It all started in the earlier

90's. Nice Guys are gone. Don't friggin worry about her response. You could care less. You the man, you sexually

tease her a little. And she is yours. Just you know, NEVER force anyone geeze of coarse ,or be to the point of being

overbearing.

Youre probably thinkin, well why don't you just follow your own advice:

Well you know.

It is kind of a chore. I don't like pretending I am something I am not 100%. It takes effort, and energy. Most of

the time you just don't feel like it lol. But if you wanna pick em up....this is how you gotta be. lol

Any

input?

Happyman

[Gegogi]

Oh come on that only works on

teenagers and bimbos. I help real women shop for shoes and lingerie and get plenty 'o poon. They love it when a man

cares enough to learn their personal whims and desires. And it makes them want to please yours. I've heard women

complain many times their BF or husband was so full of himself it was a drag. They appreciated me because I spend

the time to talk to them, learn their idiosyncrasies and made sure they came before I did. Call me a girlie-man but

it gets me laid regularly.

[happyman]

Oh come on that

only works on teenagers and bimbos. I help real women shop for shoes and lingerie and get plenty 'o poon. They love

it when a man cares enough to learn their personal whims and desires. And it makes them want to please yours. I've

heard women complain many times their BF or husband was so full of himself it was a drag. They appreciated me

because I spend the time to talk to them, learn their idiosyncrasies and made sure they came before I did. Call me a

girlie-man but it gets me laid

regularly.
__________________________________________________ _______

Well with the age group from

19-27 this is what I mostly see. As for an older chic. Say like 34 and upwards then they tend to be more along the

other lines. I don't like being that way, because you actually have to go into a "mode" to do that. Like I say it

takes energy and effort, and it is not really me.

But women respond to it as if you are reading a script at

times. I have once heard that if you want women to respond to you like you two are in a movie or something.....you

kinda gotta act like your in a movie.

I know it seems unrealistic. but I think the other method is actually

the unrealistic approach. Because I have seen the cockier, confident, full of himself, come off as slightly a jerk

approach work. And I have did it my self. If I try the other route....well I cannot remember that getting me

anywhere. Like I say, I wish it were the other way around. Nobody likes being kinda jerky, unless it is playful. But

you gotta take it up a notch even from that.

As you said the women you know COMPLAIN their boyfriends are

like that and they dislike that.....but guess what, they are their boyfriends. My guess, is they were like that to

them from the git-go. Come on who are we kidding. And they complain till the cows come home about them....but you

never really see them dumping them off now do you?

Numbers don't lie.

Happyman

[belgareth]

Haven't we had this

conversation before, Gegogi? Any bets on where it will go from here? You, me and maybe a few more of the more

experienced guys are going to try to share some experience with others and we'll get told it doesn't work that

way. I don't know man. Maybe it is all in our heads and women don't respond to us when we act like nice, friendly

gentlemen?

You had it right when you said it works for teenagers and bimboes. Once a woman grows up beyond the

playing with barbie dolls stage I've met very few worthwhile ones that would fall for that nonsense. Maybe it's

just a difference in the caliber of women we find attractive?

[surfs_up]

I my younger days I had an approach that was partly agressive, partly empathetic. If a girl was

hot I had no problem walking straight up to her and telling her. Girls2Women did like a clear direct signal about

where my head was at. I made a major distinction between expressing how they impacted me "damn, you are HOT" and

what I wanted to do to them.. The guys who succeeded in the best way took total ownership of *their own* passions,

but didn't put any thing on the girl as how she should feel or react. This was fine with educated women, from

money, good families, with high self respect, good taste, worldly connection... you know what I mean ? People of

substance. I would never imply that *because you have this effect on me* THEN *you owe me this response*.... classy

women don't play games anyway, they do like to check you out, and having sharp minds, they know HOW to check you

out... so you could start having a sharp conversation about politics or business or philosophy and there could be a

steaming subtext of sexual chemistry running through the whole thing... I've encountered some awesome women who

could throw you for a loop, at first blush they seemed maybe a little flakey or hard to pin down, then I wised up

that sometimes the real deal hot babes have developed many emotional disguises and subterfuges they use,

unconsciously I think, to throw the hounddogs off the scent... in other words they know their real worth and they

know how to NOT broadcast it....

[belgareth]

I agree with you completely and

have said as much in the past. A woman without a sharp mind and a will of her own is worthless to me. She has to be

somebody that can talk to me about something a little more advanced than the latest hairstyles or what's happening

on the most current TV show. As soon as that type conversation starts I'm out of there.

[DCW]

Oh come on that only

works on teenagers and bimbos. I help real women shop for shoes and lingerie and get plenty 'o poon. They love it

when a man cares enough to learn their personal whims and desires. And it makes them want to please yours. I've

heard women complain many times their BF or husband was so full of himself it was a drag. They appreciated me

because I spend the time to talk to them, learn their idiosyncrasies and made sure they came before I did. Call me a

girlie-man but it gets me laid regularly.

Communication is the number one factor in any worth while

relationship.
And yes it becomes even more critical as a woman get older.

DCW

[MOBLEYC57]

I agree with

you completely and have said as much in the past. A woman without a sharp mind and a will of her own is worthless to

me. She has to be somebody that can talk to me about something a little more advanced than the latest

hairstyles or what's happening on the most current TV show. As soon as that type conversation starts I'm

out of there.

Geez! Is this something that happens with age!? 'Cause that never really mattered to me

earlier in life, but it does now. I'm so in need of something more than sex, and have been for the last 10-15

years. It use to be enough ... a woman being a woman, and being attractive, but now ... I'm sooooooo picky. What

gives!? :think:

Back on topic ... in this day and time, when a woman is interested ... you'll know. Just pick

up on who's being extra friendly and laughing at mostly anything you say.

In bars/clubs ... let constant eye

contact/who's always in YOUR vicinity guide you. :thumbsup:

[tim929]

All the books about "the game"

have been writen to help young guys attract young women.Interestingly,these are the same people who havent figured

out what makes a relationship work in the first place.Hence the HUGE number of very young twenty-somethings getting

married and divorced.Games work realy well on the young and inexperienced for the purpose of generating dates and

sex,but as a side effect the fallout is failed relationships and restraining orders.These games ultimately produce

very little of practical value in terms of a stable relationship.

[bucs24]

from my experiences the younger

the girl the more she is gonna want to chase. meaning if your there and its easy for her to have you she will not

want you. but if you act like you dont need them and they have to chase you then your golden. nice guys do finish

dead last in this game and assholes win.......

[surfs_up]

The game of Hot Pursuit too often broke down into the game of Trivial Pursuit...

Everbody makes

it too mysterious and too hard... so they can sell more books, courses, mojo berries...

The thing is to know

how to BE with another person... young thangs are so wrapped up in the smallest stuff, like there is some official

ritual you must master...

Sometimes young women, real beautiful special girls too, hate to say this but this

happens with distressing regularity, throw themselves at me, and I'm not about to throw myself back, one 'cause I

am more interested in who they are two or three levels deep, but I allow that I'm totally open to listening to them

and conversing about anything that they feel like conversing about... and then there is the inevitable panic retreat

that lasts a while, and I allow that I'm comfortable with them going through their 25 year old panic attack....

then they want to hang out again.... being the steady state dude has its' benefits...

[phersurf]

YOu don't have to be a jerk to

attract women!

Women like confident guys but most guys are wuss's, so the only confident guys most women

come across are jerks and arrogant guys.

It's possible to be a gentleman but not be a wuss, but most modern

males can't seperate them. But you still have to be able to stand up for your opinions, tell a woman she did

something wrong, be able to walk away from a woman if things aren't going well, etc.

Most modern men, are

so happy when they find an attractive women, that they start acting like a needy wuss (I've been there most of my

adult life, I know it doesn't work).

Just think for a minute about the guys in women's romance novels.

They are cocky, arrogant, act uninterested in the woman to the point that she is even a pain in the ass, but they

are also heroic, have scrupels, are virtuous, couragous, etc. Everything a jerk isn't.

There's a reason why

Romance Novels account for over 30% of all book sales! Women are looking for guys like this in her life. Obviously

you don't have to be a pirate, you just have to have some of the same character traits as the men in the books.

[CptKipling]

Yep, deja vous!

Being full

of yourself, being cocky, teasing, being a badboy/jerk, acting like you are the prize, social proof, etc. etc. yada

yada are all different methods that create attraction.

But there are other ways too, and they work on the same

underlying principles that unite the above. The problem is that nobody really talks about them because they are much

more subtle, or people don't understand what they mean. Here are some examples: Be a MAN, have a purpose, be

attracted to more than just looks (i.e. not swooning over attractive women), be nonreactive to other peoples drama,

be non-needy, be interesting and fun, have passions and interests, be in control of your reality and your "frame".



The reason why Bel and Gegogi CAN talk about doing "nice" things with women is because they have the qualities

from the second group, and they do the right things without even thinking.

For example, a badboy/jerk type guy

is someone who is unresponsive to other peoples drama, is in control of his reality and frame, and can be

interesting and fun. BUT, he is also a BOY, and more mature women are not attracted to this quality at all (a man

doesn't need to be abusive).

Teasing is a fast way to convey that you are in control of your frame/reality,

you are non-needy and that you are fun.

What can happen if you are a guy who uses or has seen/heard about other

guys using things from the first group with success, then in your mind you become absolutely certain that those work

to "get" women. However, this is similar to some guys who consistently have nice conversations/interactions just by

saying "Hi" and talking about mundane things. These guys think that this is a great "pick up" technique and that

this is all you need to do to get laid. It may work 1 out of 100 times, but that can be put down to being

circumstantial.

Doing all of these attraction techniques from the first group will only "get" you the girl in

certain cases, and only with certain types of girl, even if they did feel attraction. Why? Because only with certain

women at certain times will a feeling of attraction alone justify them a) having sex with you or b) investing in you

in any other way. You may notice that she is feeling attracted to you, but only rarely will acting like a badboy get

a really quality mature girl/woman (these things are more likely to end up in a one night stand if the

circumstantial conditions are fulfilled, so if you aren't interested in getting a quality woman or having anything

long term then go for it).

For all other cases you will have had to cultivate a connection, also known as

rapport, which basically involves you both feeling comfortable around each other (this is part what Bel and Gegogi

are talking about). Most of you guys don't realise that most of the time a connection is necessary for her to have

sex with you or otherwise invest in you. Having said that, creating a connection without any attraction will create

a friend.

So basically, everybody is right in varying degrees and has something to offer.


p.s I'm not

saying that everything from the first group is bad or immature, I'm just using examples of more commonly stated

"pick-up" methods

[luxveritas]

right on

CtpKipling!!!
People over simplify. Nice guys dont always finish last. Only the weak finish last.

[phersurf]

The "cocky/funny, teasing,

social proof, acting like you're the prize" group and the "be a man, have a purpose, be unreactive to other peoples

drama, etc" group are really not that far appart.

I first started using the behaviors in the first group as

an outward attempt to be more successful with women. It worked, and I attracted much more than bimbos!

But

the good seduction coaches all tell you to become a man from the second group and you will no longer need to use the

techniques from the first. Just being a man from the second groups will automatically make you attractive to

women.

But, I speak from very recent experience! Fake it till you make it works!

[CptKipling]

The "cocky/funny,

teasing, social proof, acting like you're the prize" group and the "be a man, have a purpose, be unreactive to

other peoples drama, etc" group are really not that far appart.

I know, and like I said in the p.s, the

first group isn't all bad. It's just that generally the guys that swear by the first group are the ill informed

ones that don't get the whole picture.

[DrSmellThis]

I'll keep it to a simple

point this time.

There is an incredibly hot young woman at the bar I hang out at (they let me practice my

guitar in their heated courtyard) who I was convinced wasn't interested in me, since she never gave me any

attention whatsoever. That isn't always indicative of anything.

The main problem most guys have is being

paralyzed by hotness; to where you want something from them and they therefore rule you. The second they look

you in the eye you're through for the evening. They know so very well, from having seen it hundreds of

thousands of times.

You can't ever let this happen, (easier said than done, but worth it to keep it

mind) but have to stay confident and remind yourself you don't want them at all unless they have the qualities

you like. They have to earn you wanting them many times over. Maybe they'll earn you wanting them for a

night, maybe not. They have to be much more for you to want anything more. Be realistic, and have some

self respect!

Don't sit there and think, "I can't help it, because I do want them". You just have to try your

best, and struggle to gain control of your thoughts. Keep trying. That is good enough for most hot women. If you

just try, you'll show inner strength, which is hot on a guy.

Last night, when near the hottie, I was thinking

of stuff I was interested in, and not letting myself have any thoughts that are unhealthy for attraction. I was in

control of my own thoughts.

I stood next to a group of people including her and was listening to her talk.

Whenever I looked at her, which I did just like you'd look in passing at anyone conversing, I made damn sure I

had control over my thoughts, as I said, and felt strong. She immediately started smiling at me sticking her

tongue out, and licking her lips while contining her conversation (this is open body language, for anyone who has

recently had a frontal lobotomy) . I stayed unaffected and confident (again this wasn't an act, but was based in

what I let myself think. Believe me, you telegraph it. You just think the thoughts you know you need to think, and

trust it comes across properly.)

I took my drink and went into the court yard. Later We all left the bar at

the same time and I heard her say something flirtatious, like "can I go with you?" jokingly, but I'm not sure. I

didn't look at her but kept walking. I was just setting up a dynamic that will be there the next time, should I

choose to use it. I probably wouldn't want her for a relationship, though, because she hangs out at a bar (the

same one as me, but I'm talking odds, not judgements of her.)

So the change happened instantly. The

moment I was good on the inside, the outside world responded in a different way.

I should add that

recent work out habits made it easier for me to be confident, and I was wearing some good mones. ;)

[Holmes]

Believe me, you

telegraph it. You just think the thoughts you know you need to think, and trust it comes across

properly.

And the more those thoughts become part of the fabric of your subconscious, the

better.

At first, though, it really is all about self-control - from the inside out.

Excellent post,

Doc.

[surfs_up]

not letting myself have any thoughts that are unhealthy for attraction. I was in control of

my own thoughts.

It was a dark and stormy night at a hot bar in lower manhattan, I'm sitting on a

barstool sipping my Absolut when a tempting young thing of questionable morals indicates she wants to squeeze in

close to the bar so she straddles my thigh and rides up my leg in her skintight jeans until she's almost sitting in

my lap while humping my leg. Subtle.

She's not my type for a goodly number of reasons, one being that she

hooks up with a bud of mine with a legendary case of herpes, so no thankye ma'm, this li'l pink pekker stays safe

and sound behind his protective zipper...

And she wants me to notice her.... such an attention Ho, humpa

humpa humpa, and I am sipping my vodka thinking how much nicer to have this excellent Absolut buzz going and a good

story and no herps growing on me, so I let her pulsate away for a while as I ignore her and she gloms on to some

other guy who has a good doctor I hope...

[CptKipling]

The secret to a successful

approach is to be competent and confident enough to portray (at least some of) those attractive qualities fast, as

early as the first 10 seconds if not earlier. This will then give you a little more time where she is open to you

for you to display more attractive traits, etc.

Guys who are good at approaching women and creating attraction

are good at conveying those attactive qualities fast, and that is universal.

[happyman]

Dr. Smell This wrote:

"I

was thinking of stuff I was interested in, and not letting myself have any thoughts that are unhealthy for

attraction. I was in control of my own

thoughts."

__________________________________________________ ____________

Ok, interesting response

doc. But....what thought s are unhealthy for attraction??? I am not getting that. Are you suggesting to keep:dating,

sex, relationships totally out of your mind when goin about to talk with a chic a public place in order to relax a

little more and let it evolve?

Because as I have also seen it....

I thought you SHOULD be somehwat

clear that you have sexual desires and objectives, as well as other objectives for the most part without staring at

her tits the whole time you are talking to her???I have heard you SHOULD let her know you are a dude with those

intentione just like the next guy....without being over-bearing with it. Otherwise she may see you as the "just a

cool friend" type thing.

What are you speaking of here?

Happy

[Gegogi]

I thought you SHOULD be

somehwat clear that you have sexual desires and objectives, as well as other objectives for the most part without

staring at her tits the whole time you are talking to her???I have heard you SHOULD let her know you are a dude with

those intentione just like the next guy....without being over-bearing with it. Otherwise she may see you as the

"just a cool friend" type thing.
Most of my partners began as "cool friends" and things evolved to

friends with benefits, lovers or GFs depending on the woman and situation. I wouldn't want to hang out with a woman

if she wasn't at least a friend. Otherwise there's not much to talk about or do after sex. Being friends is

essential for me. I guess if I was a horny college student a fcuk buddy would be cool but I'm not that desperate

for cookie anymore.

[happyman]

Most of my

partners began as "cool friends" and things evolved to friends with benefits, lovers or GFs depending on the woman

and situation. I wouldn't want to hang out with a woman if she wasn't at least a friend. Otherwise there's not

much to talk about or do after sex. Being friends is essential for me. I guess if I was a horny college student a

fcuk buddy would be cool but I'm not that desperate for cookie

anymore.
__________________________________________________ _________

It is all good man. You just

happen to be blessed with being surrounded by mature women dude. ALL the things you have said are positive. In a

perfect world this would be fantastic. It is just the mentality of chics today, meaning 8 to 9 out of 10 good

looking girls are more for the bad-boy, cocky, full of themselves type from where I have been. Atleast the 30 and

under crowd.


Happy

[Gegogi]

Most of the women I date are

early to mid 20s. However since I work as fine arts faculty on a college campus, I tend to meet well educated women.

In fact, many of these women are rather cocky and full of themselves and look down on "chics." After all, unlike

increasing numbers of men that forgo college, these women are tomorrows leaders, artists and scientists. Last week I

went to lunch with a foxy 24 year old journalism grad student and she nearly kicked my ass for trying to open the

door for her. Man she is aggressive, cocky and nearly broke off my little willie. I love it.

[belgareth]

I think Gegogi has hit on the

difference or at least articulated it better than most of us. I've never had much use for bars or clubs but have

met almost all the women I've known through professional activities of one sort or another. They tend to be well

educated professionals with good backgrounds and high self esteem. Although I don't go quite as far as he does. If

a woman is going to give me a hard time about my manners, such as opening doors and the like, it isn't going to go

very far. I'm still going to be me and if she doesn't like my manners she isn't going to be seeing much of me.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I always

frequent a coffee shop. Sometimes I will see a chic, alot of the times pretty good looking just there by herself.

They usually are not there very long, say like 45 minutes it seems.
I think, hmmm. Wow. Good looking, nobody

around, are they here to be hit on or to meet a guy? It is hard to tell. Some sit out of the way in a corner in

which it is kinda harder to say hi to or go over to. I saw one real nice looking women. About 26. She was all into

this book. She sat with her back to the crowd. Not looking any other way or turning her head ever. I thought I may

of seen a ring. I thought....ahhh figures. Then this dude comes in, introduces himself, like a friggin pro, plops a

seat right in her face. He was so confident it was almost over bearing to her. But in three minutes he asked her to

join him and his friends for a drink. She agreed (I got a closer look when she was leaving. It was just a gold charm

ring=no wedding ring). He went out to tell his friends that were out side on the patio. Came back in in 4 or 5

minutes and asked her if she was ready. She sighed and said as she was leaving "this is crazy". I was woed. She gave

no indication she wanted to be picked up. No suddle clues, she was so into her novel and sat with her back to the

entire shop. I thought....naw, she is NOT here to meet someone. When he took her out of there in three friggin

minutes I was like...hmmmm how do you know?

I seen another good looking women there the next night that totally

stayed to herself as well. In the corner. I thought. Hmmm maybe I should just go over to her like the dude did to

that chic the other night. She left while I was still lookin for a clue of her availability and if she was open to

conversation. Is there a 9 out of 10 chance that if they are there alone they are there to be picked up. Is there no

way of knowing?

I know the norm:you just gotta give it a shot and the "how will you know if you don't try".

But I just want to know what are the odds? Is there a connection with a women being by herself at a coffee shop to

looking to meet a dude or is it all in the situation? Is there any probability or do women just go to get away or to

relax.

What's the deal? Getting some insight (especially from a women) would be helpful. You see it is a small

coffee shop. If I do go over and it doesn't go good I suppose I'd either have to go back to my seat and pretend it

was nothing or something. Also some folks would see this who know me just by seeing me there. I'd look kinda silly

if I did this often. Even though the more times you try the better your odds. So I kinda am not sure on how to go

about it and I want to make it a good selection if I do choose to pull a move like the dude did the other night with

that chic. It would help if I knew how much women generally go out to be picked up and where. How do you know? Is

there any way to guage?Like the one chic...here was no body language signs or anything but the dude swooped her out

of there?

Any tips, input, or advice?

Happyman

I used to think exactly like you in my late

teens and early to mid 20's.

I'm now 28yrs old and feel much more confident with myself, looks and so on that

I do completely the opposite of what I used to do. For example himing and hawing whether I should speak to someone

or not.

The only time I'd feel uncomfortable approaching a strange woman is with a group of her female friends

and/or male/female friends.

But if it's a woman alone, and I think an opportunity has risen, I Carpe Diem.



If she tells me to f#ck off, I have a little smirk on my face and laugh about it. If she says no even politely, no

bother. Many other women around.

My best advice is to do completely the opposite of what you've been doing. Do

no think, just react on instinct. If your gut tells you to approach her, then listen. If you're wrong no big

deal.

I agree with the 1-2-3 get over there look theory. The first look is to get her attention or vice versa,

the 2nd look is to ensure you that she notices you, and the 3rd look, well if you don't get over there you must be

on crack b/c she's giving you spelled out signals.

Once you approach her, find something to comment on such as

her outfit or piece of jewelry, her book or work that she has with her. This will show her that you're interested

in what she's doing.

Then just remain calm b/c if she sees that you're nervous, many women can get turned off

by it.

Just ask her questions to keep the conversation going.

Only talk about yourself unless she asks. You

still want to remain aloof at this point as that is a turn on to many women. Don't spill your guts i.e.

If

you've managed to carry on the conversation for a good 20mins+, ask for her phone number &/or e-mail and then tell

her you have to get going and you'll be in touch with her.

If she is interested, this will tend to make her

want to see and speak to you more.

If she asks for your phone #, then give it to her. There's a good

probability she may call you in a few days. And if she calls wanting to get together with you that night or a

Thursday night, tell her you're busy but would like to see her this week.

This will show her you've got a life

and won't come running at the drop of a hat. If she accepts for a later date, than she's definitely into you.



The rest is up to you in how long you want to continue seeing her and so on.

I hope this advice helps you out

as it's certainly helped me out lately.

[DrSmellThis]

Dr. Smell This

wrote:

"I was thinking of stuff I was interested in, and not letting myself have any thoughts that are

unhealthy for attraction. I was in control of my own

thoughts."

__________________________________________________ ____________

Ok, interesting response doc.

But....what thought s are unhealthy for attraction??? I am not getting that. Are you suggesting to keep:dating, sex,

relationships totally out of your mind when goin about to talk with a chic a public place in order to relax a little

more and let it evolve?

Because as I have also seen it....

I thought you SHOULD be somehwat clear that you

have sexual desires and objectives, as well as other objectives for the most part without staring at her tits the

whole time you are talking to her???I have heard you SHOULD let her know you are a dude with those intentione just

like the next guy....without being over-bearing with it. Otherwise she may see you as the "just a cool friend" type

thing.

What are you speaking of here?

HappyGood question. You're not think of dating and

relationships very much because you know nothing about her, and she doesn't know you. You're aware of sexuality

but it is well controlled, and underneath everything. Remember? You have too much respect for yourself to want

something romanatic from a random stranger with random qualities.

Obviously, you are two people of the opposite

sex meeting in a bar. She knows what's up, and you know what's up. You have chosen to talk to her, after all. You

do really think she's hot, which will come across whether you want it to or not; but you are in control of

yourself, and don't want her or need her.

The slight confident glint in you eye is enough. You are a sexual

being with strong sexual energy, not a eunuch or wimp; but it is well-controlled and just comes across as a slight

sparkle. You know who you are and what you're about. You have probably been thinking of your life, things you're

passionate about, what opportunities you have tomorrow, making youself strong in thought. Let her get turned on by

being in the presence of a real man. The reality of who you are is quite enough, and you don't need to act

anything.

You're getting out of your own way and allowing it to happen, not forcing it to happen. You're

setting it up so you can talk to her however you wish. You treat her like a person and talk to her about appropriate

things. You're ready to have a fun conversation, because that's reasonable to expect. Whatever chemistry is there,

you're ready to ride the wave of, which is another topic.

[surfs_up]

that the game isn't about picking up girls or getting laid. The game is a larger thing about consciousness

expansion. The ability to connect with others on a deep level, to communicate in rich, satisfying ways is a SIDE

EFFECT of personal growth.

Things that once seemed impossible (when you are young and before you know too

much) become so easy they aren't even necessary to think about, they just happen like breathing happens... if

you've been doing a ton of growth work, however you do it, the growth energy becomes relational energy, the

capacity to powerfully connect with people, sexually or otherwise, is the consequence of the growth work you are

doing.

I've probably spent $50,000 on study with the best teachers over the last 25 years and about now I

think I finally qualify to be a beginner, a raw white belt only barely strong enough to begin study... when that

humbling piece of awareness became clear it was obvious, painfully glaringly obvious, that this is a deep deep game

of knowledge, there are no ascended masters who know everything, only some strangely driven people out there with

small pieces of a large puzzle, a lot of phonies and hustlers with slick packaging, a small cadre of ethical

teachers who have walked hard paths and can show you a few things to ease your exploration...

If that's what

you're about, the ways you grow, the understandings you mature into, they resolve most of these problems because at

the bottom of it they are consciousness problems...

[happyman]

(after reading the

original thread)

Well the truth is only you is the one who has to do something.Noone will care for you and

feel good or bad but you.If you cant make the first move noone will feel bad or good else other than you.It's all a

mind trick,you have to solve your inner self thoughts and feel ok with yourself.

I was a great wussy some

years ago feeling afraid to approach women to talk to them having all the time in my head the thought "what if she

is with someone else?oh no she will turn me down".

After a lot of trial and error and some painstaking

situations i realized that for most normal women even if they have boyfriends they cant turn you down if you are

really a man in his true role.

I noticed from my long experiments while trying to approach women or groups of

women,that many times women who other people or friends of mine said that: "ok dude stay away from her she has a

boyfriend and she is not willing to be aproached" were actually fine human beings and open to be approached by

someone else!.You just have to act accordingly.

Most women in the situations that the thread maker states,are

natural signal receivers of man's status.They can easily understand if you are the man or not just by your body

language or your voice or in the way your plans (direct and indirect) are for them.Its not what you say or what you

plan to say,its how you say it.

What to do?My advice stop worrying and start enjoying flirt,there will always

be a boyfriend out there,all of them,but remember the better always should win.What do i mean?

The logic that

"all those who have boyfriends we should not approach them" is wrong.You dont care if she has boyfriend or not in

the initial stages of the conversation.Those are the social dynamics.If she has she has.You should not be thinking

it at all.They are women.We are men.We want to find our sex partner.Fine.So do the women.

The fact that there

is a man does not mean that they wear the engagement ring and the wedding ring (at least those who are not married

they are not wearing rings?right?)

After all i noticed that most women even if they have "boyfriends"

sometimes may feel "boyfriendly" status for another man if they date other persons and they are having fun with

them.Most men trigger the "boyfriend" status on relationships by calling women too often by being overall nice an

wussy or by caring for women.

So i think there can be no boyfriend status and relationship matters at least

until you have been going out for about 10-12 dates.(and of course that means that you are not seeing the woman

every day!).

So my advice,you have to feel the desire to turn down the fear inside you and learn to start

casually converstations with women.I would advice to be a little cocky (but always in a funny way with

humor!).

About the body language you mentioned.I used to overanalyze those things until i understood.You do

not have to care about the female's body language.I mean you should have your own correct body language and ways of

using and sending the correct messages,and just once in a while to check to see wether the female responds to this

well.

And do not take too seriously the answers you get,no need to be a jerk,but if a woman turns you down

while you try to be flirty and nice to her,just move on,we are all human beings and the one who hit you hard with

her words could have a rough day at job or had a fight with her family and she could be in bad mood,just move

one.

__________________________________________________ ____________

Excellent post. It

simplified everything, in an intelligent, yet basic way.

I am with you. All this chitter-chatter on how you

gotta be with inner peace, before you can talk to a women...or how you have to tap into that deep connection between

you and her....or how you want to really form a bond with her by engaging in a conversation that connects the two of

you...

I think all that is pretty much over analyzing things. As you said, she is a women, you are a

man....end of Story. Put on your best face and make a go of it. All this deep meaning stuff is really much. All we

are talking about is simply going to talk to a person. Be confident, smooth, and real, and give it your best shot. I

am looking to have fun, talk, go out, or what -ever with who-ever I approach ultimately. I do not need to have some

deep psychological connection and bond. I had that once. It was really good. It didn't work out in the long

run....but it often doesn't always start out that strong. I am out to have a good time, period. Not even so much in

the sense of sex, I mean over-all. If there is a deep connection great, if there isn't, well maybe one will begin,

if not, I'm still not thinking about all that. I am just out to have fun and see what happens, and most importantly

have a good time. I think maybe some of us, including myself over think things. I think this connection, same wave

length stuff is over doing it. Your a dude, and I don't care if she is the Queen of England, Mary Poppins, or a

Playboy Playmate...she is a chic, nuff said.

Make a go of it and see what happens.

Happyman

[Bruce]

Folks,

This is an amazing thread. All happened in a week's time over 6 years ago. Weird that I found it.

Guys, start from the beginning.

B

[DrSmellThis]

We had some nice threads back in the day. Archives here are a gold mine of stuff, to be sure. Used to be ground zero for all kinds of great discussions here. No place on the internet quite llike it, probably, with the mix of characters we had. Plus, we weren't talking a bunch of crap like those pickup sites.