Scent of Eros: Make your own

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The new product Scent of Eros sounds interesting. Since I already have AE and PI(w), it occurs to me that I could make something similar. SoE has 4 mg NOL and 1 mg RONE, giving a 4:1 NOL:RONE ratio.

If you mix 1 part PI(w) with 3 parts AE, you would have a 2:5:1 NONE:NOL:RONE ratio.

That would roughly be like SoE but with the addition of some NONE and a little copulins.

[Bruce]

Looks like a good mix. SOE has a musk fragrance though that I am hoping will work well with the NOL/RONE. Also, there is something spooky that seems to happen with out the NONE hammering away. Maybe just an experimental phase I\'m going thru. All that said, I am going to try a mix of SOE and NPA today and see what happens. It is hard to get away from NONE.
Cheers,
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What do you mean spooky?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What are we meaning by the term \"spooky\" or have you met fox molder. Or is it the lauging and itnensity response at once.

[CJ01]

Lurker that´s almost the mix I had in mind
I´m gonna mix AE with PI/w but I´m going to use more PI/W than AE.
I guess you will have the male and I´ll have the female version! good luck.
CJ images/icons/smile.gif

[oscar]

Lurker,

I thought I had the forum pretty well covered. I try not to miss anything, but that 4 to 1 ratio in SOE must have slipped past me somehow. Where did you get that?

Oscar images/icons/crazy.gif

[Bruce]

I don\'t know where the ratio came from, but it is correct. Either James or I must have posted it somewhere or maybe I told someone in a private e-mail. It is not a secret. The label says only 5 mg pheros guaranteed, but I am going to put more info on the home page soon.

The \"spooky\" feeling is hard to discribe: mysterious maybe or just subtle might be better. It\'s just that NONE is right in your face. Even when it is mixed with cologne, you really KNOW it is in there and it triggers condition responses. I mentioned before that I can get a phero buzz going just by remembering the smell of NONE. Well, with SOE all I could really smell at first was the musk. That calms down to a richer fragrance pretty quickly and then I got the \"spooky feeling.\" Just \"hmmmm... there\'s something in there that\'s not musk.\" Tall Cool One just posted something on this in his Random Musing on Pheromones, but although most new customers are looking entirely for results from members of the opposite sex they run into, I always apply test batches to my wrists and when I take a whiff, I want to feel something myself too.
Does that help clear it up any?

Quite a few bottles of SOE went out the first day dispite the power outage. I wonder who will be first to get it in the mail. Give us a shout whoever you are.

Bruce

[jvkohl]

Thanks to Bruce and our friendly perfumer SOE is now out there. So, as indicated in earlier posts, I\'ll tell you a bit more about it. First, I think that mixing the OL and RONE yourself might work, but note that many different \"carriers\" were sampled before the decision was made for the musky carrier in SOE. Not that I want to deter experimentation, but I\'ve sampled some carriers that were much too overpowering, and have always preferred a more subtle approach with fragrance. After all, it\'s the pheromones that are most important; the carrier fragrance (processed consciously)is of concern mostly in that it not become offensive. Since women have much better olfactory acuity and specificity for musks (a better sense of smell) by the time a particular mix smells good to the guys it could very well be aversive to the ladies. So, use any of these products sparingly. For example: a study by LeMagnen showed increased olfactory acuity and specificity to musks by up to 100,000% when women were most fertile (most likely to get pregnant). That\'s probably due to increased estrogen levels at ovulation.

With regard to excluding NONE from the SOE mix; this too (like the 100,000% figure) comes from my time spent researching the topic of human pheromones. It doesn\'t take much NONE to produce an unpleasant \"tone.\" This shouldn\'t surprise anyone since NONE is typically described as the urinous smelling component, compared with OL being described as the musky smelling component. Obviously, you don\'t want too much NONE. I\'ve never really heard any complaints about the OL musky component, and only the most sensitive noses (e.g., pregnant women) responded negatively to RONE. The pregnancy effect makes great sense to biologists. If a woman is pregnant the last thing she needs is a man hanging around stinking up her environment. She\'s already pregnant, so from a biological perspective a man can\'t do her any good.

Actually, all of the info on RONE makes good pheromonal sense; it comes from the breakdown of the primary adrenal androgen (male hormone). And men produce more of it than do women. That means its most likely to make a man smell more like a man. This explains why nearly every woman who I\'ve ever exposed to RONE made a decidely sexual reference to its odor, or unconscious effect. \"Smells like sex; smells like my boyfriend; smells like the towel my lover uses to dry himself with---stuff like that. And even when no odor was detected (about 30% of people won\'t be able to smell RONE) women have repeatedly reported a warm feeling originating from deep inside their head (e.g., in my opinion from the hypothalamus. The human hypothalamus--like in other animals--controls behavior by controlling all the hormones that influence behavior--especially sexual behavior. Maybe you\'ve read about oxytocin and PEA. The effect of pheromones extends to influence on oxytocin and on the neurotransmitter PEA. So, when you read about oxytocin and \"bonding\" or PEA and the pleasant feeling associated with eating chocolate, you can rest assured that the same kind of effect can be accomplished more directly with pheromones.

Okay, as is typical for me, I\'m getting into more neuroscience than most people want to know. I\'ll simply add that the Across Species Comparisons in Psychopathology newsletter recently picked up on a internet posting of mine on the pheromone-oxytocin-PEA link and published it. And now, I\'ll shut up for a while, and wait to hear from those of you who try SOE. However, I\'ll be adding some info on RONE to my site soon, both for the lay audience and for other researchers. And will try to keep the Pheromone Forum informed as things progress.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Whats up yall? I just got my shipment of AE and SOE today. I havent tried either of them yet--but I will let yall know on my results when I get back 2 college in a couple of days, should be interesting. Later images/icons/cool.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

James Kohl --

I for one (and I\'m sure my science-oriented fellow phero users out there) really appreciate the neuroscience stuff you write here -- so it can never be too much.

Thanks for sharing your research!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

James,

So do you endorse the use -none in phero products in general? One of your reports didn\'t seem too positive about -none, and it\'s not included in SOE. What do you think of heavy -none products like NPA, TE, and PI? Most of the products at Love Scents is -none heavy, and people seem generally happy with them. Should we expect better results with SOE?

[jvkohl]

Results with -NONE heavy products tend to puzzle me. There may be people who respond just as readily to -NONE as to -OL and -RONE, but the OL and RONE response makes more sense given others descriptions of the associated odor (in higher concentrations).

As some of you know, such odor associations are drawing attention from me, since pheromone affects (unconscious) are not typically acheived in the absence of odor (conscious) effects. For example, in my October 2001 Neuroendocrinology Letters article, the link between unconscious affect and conscious effect is detailed. We \"see\" symmetry and can consciously relate to its appeal, but the appeal is due to unconscious odor (i.e., pheromone) associations paired with their effect on hormones.

I could not say whether a positive association between NONE and hormones might be made in some cases, but can say that this positive association is less likely than with OL or RONE.

Think of it this way. Some women like outlaw \"bikers\" or such folk who are less likely to bathe as frequently as other Westerners. They may imprint on the NONE component; associate it with \"macho\" status, and get off on the association. Other women would be put off by the biker types, due to the associated odor.

So, here\'s an idea--if you\'re going to look for ladies in a biker bar, consider a product with more NONE than OL or RONE. That\'s not entirely in jest, of course. Even the best researchers cannot yet say for sure which of these chemicals will win out as the most appealing pheromone.

George Preti et al., at the AChemS conference last April showed the most promise as far as isolating the best pheromone by determining effects of androgenic pheromones on levels of luteinizing hormone in women, for example. I\'m waiting to see when he will publish the paper, which he presented as a poster session at AChemS, to see how far he intends to go with this angle. If he does pursue this, he will almost undoubtedly test NONE; OL; and maybe even RONE (since he and I, and others, discussed its promising future). Still, I doubt that he will test more than one compound in any given study, and RONE would probably be tested only after NONE and OL.

Bottom line: I don\'t think we\'ll know anything soon--at least from the scientific side. That\'s why the approach Bruce continues to take is a good one for scientists and non scientists alike. If users say it works; it most likely works--not necessarily like an aphrodisiac, but definitely to provide a competitive edge.

One very interesting thing about RONE is that homosexual males produce less of it than heterosexual males. But trying to get a treatise published on pheromones and sexual orientation is a scientific challenge. More about this as things progress, and the sexual orientation article either is given a publishing date, or rejected completely.

[travis]

Bruce,

I ordered SOE saturday U.S time when should I receive the merchandise? I can\'t wait for the product to arrive. I know this combo will work pretty good.

travis

[**DONOTDELETE**]

George Preti et al., at the AChemS conference last April showed the most promise as far as
isolating the best pheromone by determining effects of androgenic pheromones on levels of
luteinizing hormone in women, for example.

James, according to you, this is the bottom line, right?! It surprises me that this study hasn\'t been done already, given that it doesn\'t seem too hard.

[Bruce]

Hi Travis,
If you ordered on Saturday, it will ship out on Monday. The how long it takes from there is hard to say. If you ordered Fed Ex shipping, you will have it Tuesday if you are in the US. Otherwise, depends a lot on your location, weather conditions, sun spots, phase of the moon, luck, local dogs, etc. images/icons/smile.gif
Good luck! Let us know what you think when you get it.
Thanks,
Bruce

[jvkohl]

CJ,
I should have been more specific about \"outlaw\" bikers; those who treat their \"old ladies\" badly--definitely a macho (e.g., testosterone)thing. Even with good hygiene,
the testosterone, manifest as increased pheromone production can be a real turn on. Same effect with the \"bad boy\" syndrome. Guys who are abusive to women, yet some women can\'t get enough. As soon as they make the final break from one of these guys, they find another one. What\'s the appeal, if not the pheromone-hormone connection to great orgasms?

No info about gay women--except with the stereotypical \"butch\" lesbians. Increased waist-to-hip ratios indicate increased testosterone, so does increased terminal (i.e., dark) hair--like the faint mustache. These indications suggest more masculine pheromone production. Still, compared to men, women are much more difficult to figure--the menstrual cycle confuses everything.

\"I assumed that the gay issue is okay these days, I´ve read articles in science magazines, how come it´s so difficult to get something like this published?\"

Because what I\'m saying for scientific publication goes against the \"grain\" of most other research (e.g., on visual input). Olfactory input conditions the sexual response cycle in men and women, regardless of sexual orientation. In other male mammals the link between pheromones and homosexual orientation is clear. When applied to humans, this approach is quite unsettling. It makes the sexual orientation issue too animalistic for most psychologists; and even some biologists aren\'t quite ready to buy into a pheromonal explanation. This will change in the next few years, but for now it\'s a touchy subject for journal editors.

Truth,
Yes, the LH response is the bottom line. But it\'s not simple to show in women--due to the menstrual cycle confusion. In fact, Preti (with Chuck Wysoki of Monell) first tried (and failed) to show the LH response in 1990.
So, the AChemS presentation was long awaited--since everyone who is familiar with animal studies knew that the human female LH response had to be there. A Japanese group found the LH response to androstenol, but Geoge Preti and some others didn\'t like the data (too much androstenol was used). I haven\'t been able to contact any of the Japanese group to discuss such things. But, the LH response will repeatedly be found, and the likely pheromones that elicit the LH response will be described and detailed further. Sometimes I get impatient, but don\'t have the funding to do my own studies.

[CJ01]

Just a quick comment on the bikers- I´ve always liked bikers, not necessarily in a sexual sense,more in a cool, laid back sense, easy going people etc. However I´ve never liked guys with a macho attitude (fake or genuine) and the thought that someone, no matter who, doesn´t care much about personal hygene is a complete turn off.

To James, about the article you described: this sounds very interesting, have you got any information about gay women? Because we only have one gay person (at least only one we know of) on this board and it´s a lady.- both categories being a real minotity on this forum.

So if you have any research in this area, I´m sure it would be appreciated and I think the rest of us would be interested in more scientific insight.

I assumed that the gay issue is okay these days, I´ve read articles in science magazines, how come it´s so difficult to get something like this published ?
You´d think all publishers would be gagging for this sort of thing, even those who publish `Playgirl´are... images/icons/crazy.gif

CJ

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi Mr. Kohl,

I am the afforementioned one and only lesbian here. images/icons/smile.gif What you said about the testosterone production in women based on their physique is interesting. I wasn\'t even aware we females produce testosterone at all.

One thing that I\'ve mentioned in the past, and I\'ll mention it again now, is about the pheromone reception.

I was thinking, since people get attracted to one another from receiving and reacting to each other\'s pheromones, is it possible that people become gay because of their pheromone reception?

Eg. A male is gay because he is receptive to male\'s pheromones, as opposed to female\'s.
And then, I thought, bisexuals are that way because they\'re receptive to both.

I don\'t know, it just made sense to me that way.
Having an actual researcher and scientist on board is like a gift. I wonder what you think of this.

Thank you, I\'d appreciate your opinion.

[Bruce]

Hi Bush,
Glad you like the SOE. I have been using it almost every day myself. I wouldn\'t use any cologne with it. There are always those special fragrance marriages, but SOE has quite a fragrance all alone, and you want to be careful not to end up with a pickle and peanut butter sandwich.
Cheers,
Bruce

[jvkohl]

I second Bruce\'s opinion, and hope everyone will try SOE on its own before mixing with others or adding another fragrance. Also, if there are any steroid hormone biochemists out there, I\'m interested in learning more about the breakdown of OL to NONE via skin bacteria, and whether the same breakdown might occur with RONE. So far, the info I have on the different make-up of RONE suggests that it is unlikely to breakdown to NONE--but there are many types of skin bacteria, which suggests such a breakdown might be possible.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bruce, I am very pleased to report that w/in 24 hours after placing my order I rcvd SOE. I has a very pleasant yet light scent, almost intoxicating. I can\'t wait to see the results. Would you or James recommend using a cologne with it or just as is? I spray it on my shirt.