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luxveritas
01-09-2006, 08:20 PM
So now I have the

pheromones and believe they work. Next I'll have to figure out how to play the game.

Besides practice what

would you recommend for working on "game". Have you found any ingenious source of information about what to say to

an average girl in the first 3 minutes of conversation. After 3 minutes I am fine but getting past that mark without

extreme awkwardness has always been my problem. In that first three minutes you have nearly no common ground without

talking about the weather :) How I hate the weather conversation.

In my downtime I think of really interesting

questions to ask a girl after I approach them. Works somewhat on weeding out the girls that would bore the crap out

of me. Usually it is something metaphorical like I was wondering what kind of flower you are. If they look at me

like I am from mars I probably wouldnt like to have a long conversation with them. If they say rose then they are

probably boring. Tulips are sweet and generous, orchids are hot stuff. Dasies are people pleasers. Those are the

only assumptions that I have made so far.

Has any one figured out any decent memorable approaches?

belgareth
01-09-2006, 08:24 PM
I used to make obscure jokes.

If they got the joke they had something in their head beside cotton balls and were worth the time to persue further.

Usually they appreciated it too, if they got the joke. It told them I wasn't the average clown either and that

there were one or two thoughts running through my head. It started things off in a better frame. If she didn't get

the joke, it was time to leave. If she responded with a better one she was well worth the time.

luxveritas
01-09-2006, 08:27 PM
belgareth (member.php?u=122) That is a great Idea... I'll have to

start remembering a few jokes.

belgareth
01-09-2006, 09:27 PM
Honestly, I think that's the

biggest single mistake males make. They are too danged serious about the game. It's no more than a game so have

some fun with it. For me, one of my greatest pleasures (with my clothes on) is seeing how a woman's face lights up

when she is really amused and happy. So I go out of my way to amuse women and have a lot of fun doing it. Despite my

persona on the forum I laugh and joke almost all the time in person. Partially it's because I am happy and

partially it's because I enjoy seeing other people laugh and partially just because I'm a smart a$$. The world is

a very funnny place if you have a good sense for the ridiculous.

All that aside, if you can make a woman laugh

and keep it light and you have the other things, decent appearance, good manners, self confidence and mones, you

can't hardly lose.

Chemist
01-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Women, more often than not, like to

laugh and want a guy that makes them laugh. Just make her laugh. She'll come back for more.

luxveritas
01-09-2006, 09:45 PM
It is true that it helps to

lighten up, tease a little, crack a few jokes and have a good time.

If I can make it past the 3 minute mark, I

have no problem, dead air is very uncomfortable for both parties when you first aproach a new girl. I find that if

i aproach with purpose and break the ice I often do better. Maybe it takes the attention away from my average looks

and puts focus on personality which seems to be almost more important than looks. It seems any guy that is above a

5.5 out of 10 can hook up with a girl of any quality looks. He just has to prove himself worthwhile. I am enjoying

my new hobby (coming out of my shell) talking to every person I interact with in a given day. Good practice, male or

female.

Gegogi
01-09-2006, 10:25 PM
My problem is I'm trimming over

with things to say. Pick a topic and I can go with it. I learned long ago you must first intrigue and entice her,

and then let her talk about herself. Women love to talk about themselves, and they love it even more if you actually

listen. The trick is to keep a balance of interchange so you actually have a conversation and not a sideshow or

lecture.

luxveritas
01-09-2006, 10:41 PM
My problem is

I'm trimming over with things to say. Pick a topic and I can go with it. I learned long ago you must first intrigue

and entice her, and then let her talk about herself. Women love to talk about themselves, and they love it even more

if you actually listen. The trick is to keep a balance of interchange so you actually have a conversation and not a

sideshow or lecture.

That is really good advice. I need to learn when to shut up and ask questions but,

since I have no common ground to start with It tends to be difficult to figure out what to ask them in those first 3

minutes. Some time can be wasted with asking for the name and doing the traditional handshake name exchange

(boring). If anyone has any good light hearted questions to ask in the first 3mins of conversation. I would love to

hear them. That is one of the reasons for my flower question. It is open ended, bizare and memorable.

luxveritas
01-09-2006, 11:20 PM
I guess the reason I am

looking for this information is when I am on the aproach, I am nervous, This translates to an appearance of low

confidence. It is not the girl that i am very nervous about it is possibility of awkwardness that I fear. Regardless

of the source of my anxeity, I will still stink of fear. That is one of the reasons that I am working on good

openings, first impressions, Conversation starters. I believe once I have a few things already made up before the

aproach, when I go blank instead of panic I could pull out a few trusty questions, statements, lies :) and keep the

air of confidence instead of the stink of fear. Eventually with practice these things wont be important but when

learning to swim it is nice to have floaties.

Chemist
01-09-2006, 11:23 PM
If you're freezing up on your

approach - the force yourself to do it - hundereds of times. The first time, you will fall flat on your face, the

5th time - not so hard. By the 100th time, it will be second nature. Just keep at it - over and over again.

Holmes
01-09-2006, 11:25 PM
I have Monopoly, that's

about it.

Game eludes me. Forcing anything eludes me. C&F....I don't know how people can do that with a

straight face (as it were).

I occasionally make obscure jokes (like belgareth), but that's really who I am.

And it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to, anyway, when you're not Robin Williams or you're not

preaching to the converted.

I agree with bel that these things are often approached way too seriously and

even clinically. This is just life and they're just people.

Genuine laughter (with you, of course) is

always the best outcome you can hope for, IMO. It bonds stronger than Krazy Glue - and it can get you both just as

high.

Balance of interchange is crucial, too. Anyone with basic social skills should know that, but it's

truly astounding how many don't.

"Be yourself, no matter what they say..."

Blah blah blah.

DrSmellThis
01-10-2006, 03:09 AM
People often make hellos out

to be too complicated.

With the kind of woman I "target" (remember, I advocate tailoring your approach to the

kinds of people appropriate for you, not all women. This makes it easier to "close", among other benefits), they

will be able to tell by the time I say "Hi" that I'm a sincere gentleman who wants to treat them like a real,

normal, healthy person.

The way I do it, it is not a game. It is a normal, real human interaction; an

introduction.

I recommend enjoying yourself with your small talk. If you are having fun, and enjoying meeting

someone, they will too. But I'd recommend making it small, simple pleasures; rather than going for something

unrealistic and/or greedy/wanton.

It's the way you say it; not what you say. I'm humble on the outside

and confident on the inside. I'm consistent in being who I am; in acting in a way I believe in. I keep it simple,

unless something occurs to me about the moment you both are in.

I trust it will be attractive and let it happen,

as opposed to trying to make it happen.

Whoever you are will emerge, according to your life experiences.

I

do mostly avoid talking about myself unless they ask me -- that's their job, if they're socially skilled

themselves.

I got a hug and kiss on the cheek tonight from someone I had just met with this approach. It won't

go anywhere, because she has a boyfriend; but it did indicate that whatever I did worked.

tim929
01-10-2006, 08:50 AM
Being friendly and injecting

humor into her otherwise boring day has always worked well for me.Being bold and and funny and expressing confidence

that,while Im flirting with you,that doesnt mean Im desperate.Delivery has alot to do with it.And thats probably the

toughest part to learn.And its also hard to clearly define whithout launching into a multi page post about the

subject.Learning to read your target and determine weather or not she will respond well is important too.If you run

into a woman that has obviously had a tough day,trying to be funny and sympethetic works well.If she is a in a good

mood,funny and teasing works well.Testing them by treating them sorta like a little sister...not

condecendingly...just playfuly,works well if they are in a good mood.

Belgareth makes a very good point too in

that using humor and references that weed out the ones with...and I love this statement...cotton balls in thier

heads in place of brains is an important aspect of successful flirting.Girls who have alot going on up stairs (thier

brains not thier chest,look higher,) tend to be alot more fun to flirt with because they have "game" too.They have

the inteligence and the wit to banter back and forth with you and can present a mental and intelectual chalenge that

makes flirting fun.Flirting was meant to be fun and entertaining and if your both good at it,things tend to progress

quite nicely.But that requires brains on YOUR part and hers.


The whole concept is frankly kinda complicated

and difficult to clearly define and explain,but the best thing to do is practice.Learn not to hold your ego and

masculinity too sacred,because in the learning process there will be plenty of opportunity to get your masculinity

handed to you on a stick.If you can blow off getting shot down and learn from it rather than being bitter about

it,you will learn alot about flirting.Flirting is a scocial process that we use to asses the intelect and

personality of the other person.Getting shot down doesnt mean you are inferior or weak or a poor choice for a

mate...its womans way of educating you that you need to be a man and learn how to take control and be a leader.Women

like leaders and men who have a grip on things intelectualy.They have a tough time with over sensative whimps who

cave at the first sign of conflict.Being with a woman requires a strong person with goals and convictions and

strength of character and those are the things that a woman will try to determine in the opening phases of a

relationship.Starting with flirting.

Editors note: This is based purely on supposition and assumption generated

from observing results in my own experience and probably has no basis in reality.:rofl:

luxveritas
01-10-2006, 09:49 AM
Perhaps one of the problems

is that I really need new hunting grounds. Clubs thumping with hip-hop music dont seem conducive to witty

conversation. I just heard about a swing dancing class. Sounds like a great place to meet fun women. My town seems

male heavy so just figuring out where semi-attractive girls can be found has proven quite difficult. When attractive

women are around they are nearly always with a guy or two. That may be one of the reasons that I haven't developed

"great" skills with women. Another hunting ground that I have yet to explore is the local colleges. They have all

sorts of art galleries and shows. College libraries also sound like they rock. Unfortunately if I were to pick up

any classes I would have to pay out of state tuition.

tim929
01-10-2006, 10:24 AM
Classes are a good way to meet

women.As are various community events and voulunteer work.One way to work on your game is to "lightly" flirt ith

retail employees.Understand that in this venue you will be required to develop skills that are rather subtle and

more along the lines of "hit and run" rather than "engage and hold."These girls get hit on many times a day by

everyone from brad pit to the guy with the trench coat and the evil smirk.Its a great way to learn how to seperate

yourself out from the typical drive by flirt and learn how to realy get a womans attention through wit,charm and

inteligence.These hunting grounds require great skill and finess to be successful and not come off looking like a

jerk.

Understand that you will be dealing with a person that would rather be almost anywhere else doing almost

anything else and who has little time for a guy with a pathetic approach.On the plus side,learning how to sneak up

on them is a very chalenging and educational venture that,if you devlope it properly,will help you to learn how to

approach women on the street,in the shopping mall,on the bus,at the DMV,at the doctors office,in line at the

supermarket,at a funeral...what ever.Also understand that the odds of ever actualy getting any milage with women

working in a retail setting beyond just a flirt is about the same as winning the lottory...twice!But its fun and

educational.Also,you might try using the personals on the internet.I have met many women using things like yahoo

personals and match.com.

In this venue,your wit and inteligence has to come out in your writing skills which

makes things alittle more difficult.But if you can make contact with someone,once things transition to phone

conversations you can work on your flirting abilities there.Altho its a weak substitute for actual approaching women

face to face,it may help you to develop some aspects of your game like humor and charm.

belgareth
01-10-2006, 10:57 AM
Hey Tim, How'd you know about

me and my trench coat?

It's really hard to tell you the difference between flirting and simply having a good

time with the people you meet everyday. Tim is right about the clerk in the store, she probably doesn't want to be

there and has likely been hit on by a dozen clowns already and been yelled at by several others. Come across as just

a pleasant person who is being nice and make her smile. You'll get lots of mileage out of a mild joke and a good

attitude. Do it all the time and with everybody you meet and you'll find that very often the next time you walk in

you'll get a welcome smile. You've already broken the ice, now keep it up and you'll make progress.

College

campuses are a great place to meet women. Take just one class in something you are interested in. It will give you a

reason to be on campus and a chance to meet lots of bright women with good futures. I met both my current and past

wife on campus as well as more than half the women I've dated in my life. Just remember to follow Tim's advice and

put your ego in your back pocket and leave it there. A lot of these women are going to be smart and most don't like

a male to start their macho routine. Be a man but a gentleman, not a neandrathal.

tim929
01-10-2006, 08:15 PM
Hey Tim, How'd you know

about me and my trench coat?



I read the article in the paper :rofl:

good point you made bel

about being rather soft spirited in the approach with women in retail.And the other good point you made was that

uppon returning another time,if you have made a solid impression,you will find that you recieve a much nicer

welcome.I have done this many times and have never regreted it.At a local resturaunt that I eat at once or twice a

week,the waitresses all know me and actualy like having me in thier section because they know that I am laid back

and an easy customer.They will even hook me up with freebies like pie or cake thats laying around in the back.I

never get charged for the extras like ranch dressing or tartar suace and they are always as nice as can

be.Unfortunatly they are all married or damn close to it.

But developing that takes time and a fair amout of

skill in the hunt.Sort of like commanding a U-Boat.Patience will give you the opportunity to develop the skill.

belgareth
01-10-2006, 08:36 PM
I read the

article in the paper :rofl:



Pictures too? :frustrate Damn! If I'd of known that he had pictures

I'd have bribed the reporter. What are my wives going to think?

Sounds like you do it the same way I do. It

works pretty well, doesn't it? It doesn't really take any time because I'm going to be those places anywhere so

there's no time invested.

tim929
01-10-2006, 09:50 PM
Thats the beauty of going

places...if your there anyway,you might as well seize the opportunity to flirt with passing young cuties.I once vene

flirted with a girl while in line at the DMV.But finess realy helps and its through flirting that one learns what

finess is and how to apply it properly.Sorta like learning to throw a curve ball.

catlord17
01-11-2006, 12:43 AM
Here are some suggestions for

you.

1. Never shake hands with a woman you want to be more than friends with when you meet her, if you can help

it. Anything but that. Kiss her hand, whatever - just not handshaking. That sends the "let's just be friends"

message. That's why I make it a point to ALWAYS shake hads with any woman I approach with the intent of asking her

if she'd be interested in modeling. It says, "I'm not hitting on you."

2. College libraries do rock. Hotties

left and right. And the great thing is... you don't have to be a student to wander in and hang out. Really! Just

walk in like you own the place. There will be some services that require student ID, but libraries are freely

accessible, as are cafeterias, campus bookstores, and breezeways. Even if I was to drop out right now, I could

still go have all the chances for hotties I wanted at my college.

Don't limit yourself unnecessarily. :)

tim929
01-11-2006, 01:26 AM
LOL...yeah...shaking hands is

right up there with asking her if she wants to change long distance carriers or to purchase suplimental life

insurance.

luxveritas
01-11-2006, 08:31 AM
The swing dance class I

attended last night rocked. I was terrible but had a lot of fun screwing up. It was the best place I have tested my

pheromones so far. Every 2 minutes you switch partners so you have a new person in your pheromone range every 2

mins. I think I need to be careful over my NPA the old ladies were enthralled and one of the younger women went into

bitch mode on me for being so bad at dancing. BTW how do you "dab" NPA. Overall it is not a great new hunting ground

but it is a great new social environment.

catlord17
01-11-2006, 09:38 AM
If you're a beginner, how can

they get an attitude because you can't dance well yet? That's ridiculous.

I'm going to start taking dance

lessons as soon as I can afford it, and anyone gives me a hard time for being clueless is going to get raspberries.

:)

tim929
01-11-2006, 09:53 AM
Something you might want to try

is tempering the NPA with some SoE.Its a very social mix and if used proprly can be very sexual as well.And it also

helps dull the edge of NPA so that you are less likely to get nasty reactions.Another thing is that if you wear too

much NPA to a dance class you might end up going home with someones grandmother.Older women seem to respond well to

NONE.Or egt your head handed to you by a woman with PMS.:whip:

PheroQuirk
01-11-2006, 03:08 PM
The swing dance class I attended last night rocked. I was terrible but had a lot of fun screwing

up. It was the best place I have tested my pheromones so far. Every 2 minutes you switch partners so you have a new

person in your pheromone range every 2 mins. I think I need to be careful over my NPA the old ladies were enthralled

and one of the younger women went into bitch mode on me for being so bad at dancing. BTW how do you "dab" NPA.

Overall it is not a great new hunting ground but it is a great new social environment.

hello

luxveritas.

it's a great social environment, but have you found any way to close in the time you have? i

find everybody (at least in beginner's class) is focused on learning the steps and so there isn't so much time for

chit-chat. if you hang around for the later free-style session perhaps it becomes easier to dance with the girl you

like and talk to her then.

luxveritas
01-11-2006, 03:40 PM
The class is in a local

tavern so after the class some people decide to stay for a drink. This makes it a good place to meet people. I am

not a great closer. That is the weakest part of my already mediocre to poor skills. Also, only 6-8 women in the

class iseem to be free agents and only maybe 2 of those are up to my standard and age bracket. It is not a great

hunting ground but it is a lot of fun. Right after the beginners class the advanced class starts, after it is over

in an hour there is free dance. I stayed and talked to one of the girls that was solo and up to my standard but It

was my first lesson (embarassing) and I wasn't in the most social mood. I'll probably see her again when I am more

social.

PheroQuirk
01-11-2006, 04:57 PM
The class is

in a local tavern so after the class some people decide to stay for a drink. This makes it a good place to meet

people. I am not a great closer. That is the weakest part of my already mediocre to poor skills. Also, only 6-8

women in the class iseem to be free agents and only maybe 2 of those are up to my standard and age bracket. It is

not a great hunting ground but it is a lot of fun. Right after the beginners class the advanced class starts, after

it is over in an hour there is free dance. I stayed and talked to one of the girls that was solo and up to my

standard but It was my first lesson (embarassing) and I wasn't in the most social mood. I'll probably see her

again when I am more social.

closing is probly the easiest part once you have her interest. usually

it's pretty easy to invite her to some specific event she has pretty much already implied she would be interested

in - or failing that to drinks on some specific occasions. you're not 'asking her out' so no big deal if she

says no. it's breaking the ice and creating the rapport that I find hardest...

Chemist
01-11-2006, 07:22 PM
Closing is very simple. Once

you've read she is interested, then ask her for her number.

". . . Janine, what's your

number?"

these things come in levels and stages. She must first telegraph her interest - then close with a

method to keep in touch with her.

Then use this method to get in touch with her and meet her later. Don't

use this as an excuse to banter online or on the phone for hours - that is counterproductive, unless you just want a

friend. One step at a time.

Gegogi
01-11-2006, 07:44 PM
1. Never shake hands with

a woman you want to be more than friends with when you meet her, if you can help it. Anything but that. Kiss her

hand, whatever - just not handshaking. That sends the "let's just be friends" message. That's why I make it a

point to ALWAYS shake hads with any woman I approach with the intent of asking her if she'd be interested in

modeling. It says, "I'm not hitting on you."
There are few absolutes in life and everything depends on

the situation and the vibes you send out. I've been formally introduced to women at conferences, they shook my hand

and we ended up drinking and rolling around in our hotel rooms later. Now I knew as soon as we touched and our eyes

locked there was attraction. Shaking hands actually intensified the feeling.

Also, many of my female students

introduce themselves with a handshake and are not shy about coming on to me later. A handshake is just a handshake

but I sometimes wonder if it's merely an excuse to touch you. Nevertheless when you feel electricity and catch a

twinkle in her eyes it means "I want to check you out" or maybe "I want to bear your children." The handshake is

often just a lame way of connecting with you. I prefer a hug...

Rbt
01-13-2006, 05:08 PM
For a bit on the original

question:

Experience experience experience! It takes time. One small step at a time.

Do what some of the

other guys said. Practice on the store clerks etc. Just to get the hang of it.

One way to avoid the "dead spots"

after three minutes is to find a way to walk away for a little while after two minutes... Go to the washroom, get a

snack, a drink, say you have to say hi to a friend, something. You've made the initial intro step and hopefully

broken the first layer of ice. This gives you a moment to think of more to say. Flit around a bit. After a while

you'll get an idea of what works, what doesn't, and how to proceed, etc.

Also remember that everyone is

different. Someone's day may have been good, may have been rotten - and their mood *at that moment* will be

affected. Try again later. An approach that works for one person may not work on another. Don't be to "formula."

Don't look for lines to memorize (unless they are really *great* lines...). There are lots of fish in the sea. If

you stike out with one, or two, or three.. try another. After all you want one that works for *you.* Don't waste

time working on the cotton-balls.

Just a few quick thoughts.

Chemist
01-14-2006, 01:37 AM
Always be the first one to break

contact first. Do not linger around acting like a lost puppy. If it's on the phone, then be the first to hang up.

If it's in real life, leave while the iron is hot. After a good conversation - move on to the next person. Strike

up conversations with all the women in the room. If it's not going anywhere, then leave and don't take it

personally. If it's going well, then leave at keep her in mind. The more women you are seen having favorable

interactions with - the better your value.

Favorable interaction to me means getting to laugh uncontrollably

out loud so other people's heads in the room turn to see what's going on, if only for an instant.

I am

guilty of using a line. I only have one: "Hi, what's your name?"

Last year, I must have said this over 1000

times. It get's very easy to do after a while (it's like driving a car - remember what it was like when you first

started and what it's like now - my apologies to those who don't drive or still suck at it).

There are some

women that I've said that to four or five times because some of them I honestly don't remember. Either that or

they do look distinctly different each time I see them. The ones that take it in stride and find it funny that I

keep asking for their name are keepers. The ones that take offense - I don't remember - and I really mean that. I

can't recall anyone who got offended. Sometimes even after I remember who they are, I will still jokingly ask her

name - and she knows I'm joking and it immediately gets a big laugh and starts the interaction out on the right

foot.

Good topics to follow up after asking her name are how she came to this place (so who do you know here?

What's your story?) or what she's does for work. Keep her talking for 5 minutes or so and see if the interchange

is natural and easy. If it's not, then get the hell out. If it is, then see if she asks anything about you. Then

get the hell out.

Usually in any social environment, there are women I have met previously who will come up

to me while I'm talking to a new person, and literally try to rip me away from who I'm talking to - by approaching

me from behind and trying to make me do a 180 and turn my back on the new woman. Here is a natural way to end the

conversation and move on.

It helps if you have a few good woman friends who will do this for you.

DrSmellThis
01-14-2006, 06:45 AM
That's a good example of a

simple method that works for someone. It could have been a bit different method as well. Whatever, it's not rocket

science; and the magic ain't in the game. If you keep it simple and real, some minor "social techniques" can be

helpful too, as in this case.

Chemist
01-14-2006, 08:26 AM
It might not be rocket science, but

it was something that eluded me for many years. My first step and changing my social life was pheromones. Six years

after that, I stumbled on what I described above - it took a long time to figure it out.

It might not be

rocket science, but one thing is clear, not many guys do it. The technique is very simple and takes 100x less effort

and worry than what I was doing before. I think there are more rocket scientists in this world that natural guys who

know what to do. I certainly didn't.

CptKipling
01-14-2006, 10:12 AM
Almost every single one of my

friends gets this so wrong its funny. In fact they just don't bother most of the time; well either that or go balls

out acting all macho as if they really don't give a sh!t about her and just look like a prat (sometimes the latter

works, but your success will be based entirely on being in the right place at the right time and not on any talent

you have). The bottom line is that most guys abandon the concept of talking to new attractive girls because of

negative feedback from them and friends etc.

Most guys who are thinking about starting a conversation with a

woman are stressing over what to say. Even if they think of something fantastic, they have already lost because they

have missed the point. Ever hear that women find confident, high status men attractive? Yes? Good. Now ponder over

this question for a few seconds: If you are so high status and cool (which should have women dripping off you), why

are you talking to this girl practically begging for her to like you?

You may think that the begging part is a

little extreme, but I promise you that if you went over to talk to an attractive lady you wanted her to like you.

This is not what confident or high status people do, so you are breaking a rule that you have been told over and

over without realising it. Talking confident isn't being confident.

Let me ask another question: Why would an

attractive lady talk to you if you can't talk to anyone else?

Chances are that you are making her VERY

uncomfortable when you approach her. Her internal dialogue, "this guy seems like he is acting cool, but why is he

talking to me? Why do I deserve this attention? Oh, he is just another weak guy talking to me for my looks and is

not comfortable with women. This guy is not genuine. He seems to want my approval..." You get the idea.

The only

direct advise that this post will give anyone is this (there is more if you look closely):

TALK TO

EVERYONE.

CptKipling
01-14-2006, 11:34 AM
1) Don't do that.

2) Do

that first. You can't bore someone into having a converation with you and have them like you afterwards.

3) If

you run out of things to say (or more importantly if it isn't going anywhere), then DO leave.

4) This point

kind of contradicts your previous one, but it does lead me to something important. ALL of the good advise for things

to do comes from people with the right attitude who generally do them automatically. Doing those things with the

wrong attitude is missing the point.

5) Yep.

CptKipling
01-14-2006, 11:49 AM
:)

Whatever.

I wasn't

attacking anyone, I commented on the accuracy of your post.

It was your choice to take it personally.

Chemist
01-14-2006, 12:17 PM
1) Do do that. Humor attracts the

kind of girls that I like - fun and spontaneous.

2) If they're laughing out loud and talking nonstop -

they're not bored.

3) and 4) Leave after 5 minutes. Stay if she begs you. I don't care if the conversation

is boring because we don't gel, or really fun because we hit it off. Break it off and go do something else

ESPECIALLY IF SHE'S HAVING A REALLY GOOD TIME. You'll think its stupid, but ask yourself how many guys do this? It

leaves a good impression on her - the last thing she remembers is that WOW THIS GUY IS A FRICKIN' HOOT. If you

think that she'll feel depressed because you left, then remember guys and girls don't think the same

way.


5) Practice does help.

I can already see that guys on this topic want different things. I

immediately come out of the gate acting like a clown. Those that don't do this are looking for a different type of

women (girl?) than I am.

There is no contradiction here.

Holmes
01-14-2006, 03:48 PM
1) Do do that.

Humor attracts the kind of girls that I like - fun and spontaneous.

2) If they're laughing out loud and

talking nonstop - they're not bored.

3) and 4) Leave after 5 minutes. Stay if she begs you. I don't care

if the conversation is boring because we don't gel, or really fun because we hit it off. Break it off and go do

something else ESPECIALLY IF SHE'S HAVING A REALLY GOOD TIME. You'll think its stupid, but ask yourself how many

guys do this? It leaves a good impression on her - the last thing she remembers is that WOW THIS GUY IS A FRICKIN'

HOOT. If you think that she'll feel depressed because you left, then remember guys and girls don't think the same

way.

Great advice. (That also goes for Kip and others, btw.)

I was always afraid that a

premature bail could end in misunderstandings and blown opportunities rather than amplified intrigue.

But

that fear was just attachment talking. As soon as you're honestly detached from whatever outcome, you really can't

lose.

Bowing out after 5 minutes - especially when things are going great - demonstrates an "abundance

mindset" to her and to yourself. But it's also really hard to pull off if you're stuck in "poverty" mode.

(Demonstrating one code convincingly is pretty difficult when you're living by the opposite.) In that case,

you might as well not bother. Even if you are able to reel somebody in, the scarcity vibe will muck things up later

on.

belgareth
01-14-2006, 09:35 PM
The women who are willing to

laugh and have fun are the best ones, IMO. If they aren't willing to have fun or don't have a sense of humor I'm

gone. They aren't worth the bother.

Remember that all the above are rules of thumb, not cast in stone and it

doesn't always work that way. I can think of at least once it didn't for me but remember that I am definately not

a player. I made some joke to this attractive lady at an evening mixer during a conference we were attending and

she came back with a sharp retort that I responded too. Pretty soon we are both laughing while everybody else was

busy trying to network and impress each other. We ended up leaving and wandered around town most the night getting

into trouble. Other than collecting some clothes she only went back to her hotel room when it was time to go home. I

doubt either of us spoke to more than one or two other people that evening. It just depends on the situation.



Play it by ear, watch what's happening and see how she is responding to you. Assume nothing!

bjf
01-15-2006, 05:51 AM
Great advice. (That

also goes for Kip and others, btw.)

I was always afraid that a premature bail could end in misunderstandings

and blown opportunities rather than amplified intrigue.

But that fear was just attachment talking. As soon

as you're honestly detached from whatever outcome, you really can't lose.

Bowing out after 5 minutes -

especially when things are going great - demonstrates an "abundance mindset" to her and to yourself. But it's also

really hard to pull off if you're stuck in "poverty" mode. (Demonstrating one code convincingly is pretty difficult

when you're living by the opposite.) In that case, you might as well not bother. Even if you are able to

reel somebody in, the scarcity vibe will muck things up later on.

Sounds great when social circles

crossover, but what good does that do you if bailing means you probably won't see her again?

tounge
01-15-2006, 10:24 AM
Sounds great when social

circles crossover, but what good does that do you if bailing means you probably won't see her again?






Great point. A rapport needs to be established and then contact info has to be obtained before

bailing. If you can't get the info, then it was just conversation and you might as well move on.

Rbt
01-17-2006, 12:34 PM
Speaking of "Game" there was a blurb

on our nightly TV news this week about some "pickup game" type book which the title of escapes me. But I got a laugh

out of how it is billed as "the bible" of pickup books and even comes bound looking like a (Christian) Bible...

Marketing...

If anyone knows the name of it I'd love to research it.

Pongo
01-17-2006, 01:49 PM
I like to tell women right off the

bat (hey ~ your pretty) then follow with a nice smile,. If you try it only give her 1 compliment and be nice about

it - remember to *smile* :)

Chemist
01-17-2006, 02:07 PM
I NEVER comment on her looks upon

first meeting her.

Pongo
01-17-2006, 02:10 PM
well we all have our ways - works

well for me.

gamecity
01-20-2006, 02:57 AM
Here's some basics.

Ask

her name or introduce yourself. Please, smile. Don't be nervous, they can detect that. It's a sign of weakness. I

always go with "Hello <pause a little>. <Talk in a smooth cool voice> "what's you name?". Most of the time they are

with a friend that is also a girl. I always go with a wingman when approaching someone unless when I'm

drunk.

Now to compliment or not to compliment, that is the question. When she is interrested, you compliment. If

you don't see a sign of interest then don't compliment. When you compliment, don't say "You are beautiful or you

are stunning". Just say, "You have nice hair" or "that's a nice dress", "You have a cute phone".

Now let's go

with the conversation. Never ever talk about the weather. You should not talk about FACTS. Talk about EMOTIONS. So

don't ask about what her job is, or her parents or how many sisters she has or where she lives, etc. When you say a

word, it has to have an emotion. Example: I love this song. I like this drink. I'm happy I went to this party, I

have a chance to relax. It leads to more words and better conversations. Facts are boring. Never ever talk about it.

She doesn't want to tell you her life story, she wants to have fun just like you.

Practice kino also. I think

that's what it is called. It's a trick where you copy her action. She drinks from a cup, you drink also. She moves

her hand, you move your hand also. She put's her hand on her knee, you do the same thing. Do not listen to the back

of your mind that she is going to notice it. She will never ever notice it. You do all these things so that she

becomes more comfortable talking to you. If she isn't comfortable, she will hardly say a word. So you have to make

her feel comfortable.

Well if you practice all of these, your game should improve.

TylerOC
01-20-2006, 03:02 AM
Here's some

basics.

Ask her name or introduce yourself. Please, smile. Don't be nervous, they can detect that. It's a sign

of weakness. I always go with "Hello <pause a little>. <Talk in a smooth cool voice> "what's you name?". Most of

the time they are with a friend that is also a girl. I always go with a wingman when approaching someone unless when

I'm drunk.

Now to compliment or not to compliment, that is the question. When she is interrested, you

compliment. If you don't see a sign of interest then don't compliment. When you compliment, don't say "You are

beautiful or you are stunning". Just say, "You have nice hair" or "that's a nice dress", "You have a cute

phone".

Now let's go with the conversation. Never ever talk about the weather. You should not talk about FACTS.

Talk about EMOTIONS. So don't ask about what her job is, or her parents or how many sisters she has or where she

lives, etc. When you say a word, it has to have an emotion. Example: I love this song. I like this drink. I'm happy

I went to this party, I have a chance to relax. It leads to more words and better conversations. Facts are boring.

Never ever talk about it. She doesn't want to tell you her life story, she wants to have fun just like

you.

Practice kino also. I think that's what it is called. It's a trick where you copy her action. She drinks

from a cup, you drink also. She moves her hand, you move your hand also. She put's her hand on her knee, you do the

same thing. Do not listen to the back of your mind that she is going to notice it. She will never ever notice it.

You do all these things so that she becomes more comfortable talking to you. If she isn't comfortable, she will

hardly say a word. So you have to make her feel comfortable.

Well if you practice all of these, your game should

improve.


kino is touching her in a sensual way, what your talking about is developing rapport

gamecity
01-20-2006, 03:03 AM
hold a sec, let me look it up.

Yup you are right, kino is a friendly to a sexual touch. Way to advance for beginners.

Pongo
01-20-2006, 03:09 AM
lol, anthony robbins 101?

gamecity
01-20-2006, 03:13 AM
lol, anthony

robbins 101?

Lol who is anthony robbins.

Pongo
01-20-2006, 03:18 AM
who indeed - ha ha

TylerOC
01-20-2006, 04:11 AM
haha i think hes talking about

the whole speed seduction crap and players guide 101. i read through the thing but it seems really bogus to me. dont

believe in it much

Pongo
01-20-2006, 04:21 AM
Speed seduction - I think thats

Ross Jefferies - I have his stuff here somewhere,... If not him then it's David DeAngelo, I have all the stuff from

these guys ~ it really boils down to one damn thing,... DROP THE SHY & GO SAY HI.


Quote me on that, Pongo

out

TylerOC
01-20-2006, 05:33 AM
basically. but i know that i

have had major results with david deangelo. but the ross jefferies thing sounds more like im tricking a girl into

having feelings for me with weird suggestions that i have to memorize and crap. Davids material more molds into your

personality and is a way for me to have more fun with my life by joking around more and teasing

Pongo
01-20-2006, 05:51 AM
There buddies actually and do

interviews together i have been reading this type of stuff for years now its interesting the nlp and all but for

real the main idea is approach & be approachable. Flirting is a rush!


LOL ~ I used nlp today a chick was

hittin hard core on me and told me she was moving to my town - she said she heard my county was "dry" (cant buy

booze) I said ~ha ha ha, its wet, REALLY wet - you can get some~ I had to pry myself away from her - kinda hot

redhead that is scared to move to a new town so she wants someone to show her around - hell you know whos gunna be

showing her the place :) This hit had A LOT to do with mones.

CptKipling
01-20-2006, 11:28 AM
Wow this thread took a

turn...


1) keep it light in the beginning, talk about topical crap like the whether or class or

something

Really, that will not work. Talking about the weather or other such related stuff just looks

as if you want an excuse to talk to her but don't have the balls to say anything interesting or direct. Sure make a

joke about whats going on, but don't force it. If you really want to force it say something like, "...not really, I

didn't think the weather was that interesting. I though you looked like someone cool to talk to. So..."

How

many guys do you think talk about dumb stuff and hope she won't notice that you are chatting her up, or how many do

you think are overly gushy and begging for her approval ("hey, you're just so beautiful...").

The way to

conduct yourself will depend on what you want, but generally being a complete wuss, being boring, or appearing to be

weird and making her uncomfortable are things you should never do.

Does that mean you can't compliment her? No,

but what matters is why you are complimenting her. Do you actually really care and are you interested (imagine a

fashion expert complimenting clothes), or are you just doing it to appear nice and keep her talking to you?




Sounds great when social circles crossover, but what good does that do you if bailing means you probably

won't see her again?

The key is to do what Holmes said...


I was always afraid that a

premature bail could end in misunderstandings and blown opportunities rather than amplified intrigue.

But that

fear was just attachment talking. As soon as you're honestly detached from whatever outcome, you really can't

lose.

Bowing out after 5 minutes - especially when things are going great - demonstrates an "abundance mindset"

to her and to yourself. But it's also really hard to pull off if you're stuck in "poverty" mode. (Demonstrating

one code convincingly is pretty difficult when you're living by the opposite.) In that case, you might as

well not bother. Even if you are able to reel somebody in, the scarcity vibe will muck things up later on.



...but also weave a second meeting into the conversation (such as being interested in a club, going to buy

music, etc.), and then you can say, "hey give me your number so we can <whatever you were talking about> sometime."

This makes it natural for her to give you her number, she might just give it to you straight out.

Kino

(touching) is about trust and her being comfortable around you. You can't escalate the interaction without

touching, but touching in a way that makes her uncomfortable for extended periods will ruin anything you had

previously.

Whatever you say when you approach:
1) BE confident and comfortable with what you are

saying
2) Make her feel good about spending this time with you (be unusual and interesting, be funny, make sure she

is comfortable whether you are being warm, very casual, or very direct.)



Speaking of "Game" there was

a blurb on our nightly TV news this week about some "pickup game" type book which the title of escapes me. But I got

a laugh out of how it is billed as "the bible" of pickup books and even comes bound looking like a (Christian)

Bible... Marketing...

If anyone knows the name of it I'd love to research it.
It's "The Game" by

Neil Strauss.

Mtnjim
01-20-2006, 12:04 PM
Lol who is anthony

robbins.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

This younger generation!:hammer:

Seriously, he's a "motivational

speaker" who's made millions doing it.

Now back to the thread, already in progress!

Above all--
Well, let me

tell you a story--

Last night, I was talking to my GF, planning the week end. She was telling me that she and her

mom had been aout and about "today" (yesterday) and had run into a gut who got all friendly with them. Later he

needed a ride home, because his car was in the shop, so they gave him a ride home. He said he was interested in

meeting up with mom again. Later my GF asked her mom if she was interested in meeting up again with him, and she

said no, because he came across as too needy.

Mom is 90!

Goes to show, come across as needy, and even at 90,

you're toast!!

So, as I was saying, above all, DON'T BE NEEDY!!

MOBLEYC57
01-20-2006, 01:05 PM
The women

who are willing to laugh and have fun are the best ones, IMO. If they aren't

willing to have fun or don't have a sense of humor I'm gone. They aren't worth the

bother.


If you don't find your perfect mone/mix, if you never learn or remember anything,

and if you never learn anything about women ... ALWAYS remember the above statement. Those who are desperategive and

those who give up their nuts to beauty/looks, will never understand the statement, but for all others ... tis sooooo

important to remember, and put at RULE number 1 for what you want out of a woman/relationship. Wonder why women

ALWAYS say they want a man to make them laugh? Even though there are women who request it, but have no sense of

humor to make men laugh/attempt to make men laugh, which falls under MOBLEY's "Never ask me for what you can't

give me" list. Those are also left alone ... with time. To those you say, "just because you're in pain, doesn't

mean you have to be one."

Anywho, I said all that to say ... never forget Bel's statement! :drunk:

phersurf
01-20-2006, 01:27 PM
Speaking of "Game"

there was a blurb on our nightly TV news this week about some "pickup game" type book which the title of escapes me.

But I got a laugh out of how it is billed as "the bible" of pickup books and even comes bound looking like a

(Christian) Bible... Marketing...

If anyone knows the name of it I'd love to research

it.

The book you are refering to is called "The Game" written by Neil Strauss (aka "Style" in the

cummunity).

He is one of the best out there and he is bald, 5'6" and far from attractive. His game is a mix

of many PUA's, but mostly Mystery and David D. He's been with some of the hottest women in LA. His current

girlfriend is Courtney Love's guitar player.

It's actually not a how to book (although there is a lot of

useful info), but more about the characters in the community. It's a very good read.

Lycan
01-20-2006, 03:23 PM
hmm same exact problem as

Luxveritas. I too need to come out of my shell. I'm so unconfident(even tho i'm better than average looking) it

shows when i speak. I fumble a lot, sometimes i speak so softly that i have to repeat myself to be heard. It's jus

pathetic, hate myself for that. I'm way too laid back and submissive. Maybe its because i'm not a happy person.

I'm so frustrated with this person i have become. I've only dated 4 girls so far(i'm a 20 yr old) and i havent

had the opportunity to take any of them vbmenu_register("postmenu_177754", true); to bed. Yeah i'm that pathetic.

I've read so much on this forum and others, trying to improve my verbal skills, hopefully pheromones will help a

bit. Another thing i shud mention is that i jus moved to the US 2 yrs ago, and havent made any friends, atleast not

the type of ppl i'm looking for. So i barely get to go clubbing at all.

Lycan
01-20-2006, 04:27 PM
i get looks from older (ages

27-40) attractive women all the time. But i cant find the courage to do anything bout it :sad:

MOBLEYC57
01-20-2006, 04:39 PM
i get looks from

older (ages 27-40) attractive women all the time. But i cant find the courage to do anything bout it :sad:



:type: Lycan, depending on what's behind their looks, in the I'm interested in yous, all is needed is a

smile and hello, or a wink. If you find it hard to wink, you need work. There are more and more women out there

letting men know they're interested.

No trying to pick up anyone, but for some reason I've started saying

"howdy," and females just burst out laughing or smiling. Maybe it's because I'm in an area where most people say

"hi" "hello," OR, I'm a black man saying "howdy," and I'm not in Texas.

You don't have to do anything out of

the norm, so ... JUST DO IT! :cheers:

TylerOC
01-20-2006, 05:27 PM
:type: Lycan,

depending on what's behind their looks, in the I'm interested in yous, all is needed is a smile and hello,

or a wink. If you find it hard to wink, you need work. There are more and more women out there letting men know

they're interested.

No trying to pick up anyone, but for some reason I've started saying "howdy," and females

just burst out laughing or smiling. Maybe it's because I'm in an area where most people say "hi" "hello," OR, I'm

a black man saying "howdy," and I'm not in Texas.

You don't have to do anything out of the norm, so ...

JUST DO IT! :cheers:


hahah one of my buddies around here (orange county) says howdy all the

time, i dont know anybody else that does

Phan
01-20-2006, 08:18 PM
Last night at my regular club I

noticed that they'd found a new waitress. When she came to see if I wanted a drink, I asked her name and introduced

myself. Then a friend of mine who I met there, another regular, pipes up with:

"Just so you know, we are going

to flirt with you. We flirt with all of the waitresses." He's kinda a jerk in some ways, and definitely doesn't

have a very smooth touch.

"I won't," I said.

"Yes you will, you always do," he retorted. I thought evil

thoughts about my friend.

"Actually, I'm friendly. I think that every kind of relationship begins with

friendship, and I like to get to know interesting people. I make conversation," I explained.

Eventually he

stopped saying stupid things and I was able to have a conversation with her. I asked her what she thought of the

place so far, revealed some small things, asked her more follow up questions, revealed more things about myself, but

let her talk when she wanted to talk and showed I was interested as she did so. If she stopped, I asked her another

question based on something she said, usually something that shows that I understand how she feels about something,

and would like to know more. At one point she stopped making rounds to get people drinks for about 15 minutes to

talk, and she was the only waitress not counting the bartenders. When I left for the night she gave me a warm hug.



This is my pattern. When possible, start with a friendly question, preferably one that allows them to say

something about how they feel about something pertinent, then build from there. It's critical to have the honest

feeling that you want to get to know them, learn more about them, that you care about what they are saying and find

it interesting. Be sympathetic. (sympathy example: I once had a grumpy IRS employee call me about a

misunderstanding. I made a light-hearted joke and then said something about the angry people she must have to deal

with. She then opened up with stories about her experiences, and started looking for ways to help.) In the course of

the conversation you get the chance to show them that you are an intelligent, warm, friendly, interesting person.

Throw in a dash of appropriate touching and flirtatious comments if it seems right. Oftentimes they'll start that

for you if they like what you're saying. Make jokes when you can.

It's very easy to not be shy or nervous with

this approach, because all you are doing is being friendly. What is there to be nervous about with that? If the

conversation falls apart, just try again later or move on to someone new. To practice this, find excuses to strike

up conversations with people that you are not necessarily attracted to. The key here is that it doesn't have to be

brilliant or funny (bonus points if it is), it just has to be warm and sincere.

gamecity
01-21-2006, 05:24 AM
I'm telling you one thing....

do not talk about facts, they are conversation killers. It's ok to bring up facts once in a while but don't talk

about facts in a row. Go with emotions, they are the best and safest way.

bjf
01-21-2006, 05:41 AM
phan, you so flirt with every

waitress. :)

Phan
01-21-2006, 03:00 PM
Ok BJ, you caught me. :) But don't

tell them! It's stealth flirting!

I agree gamecity, feeling topics/questions are much more powerful. Emotion

keeps people connected to a conversation.

I find myself saying things like:
"Oh really? Does that bother you

when..."
"What do you think of..."
"How do you feel about..."
Or doing something similar by making statements of

my own about something.

It also helps to find things that people are passionate about, as long as you can say

something intelligent about the subject.

I'm not one of those people that religiously follows the words of the

dating gurus, but one interesting thing I saw when I went over some of DeAngelo's stuff was when he was talking to

a writer. He didn't ask her, "What do you write?" He asked her, "How does writing make you feel?" A lot less

cliche, a lot more feeling-oriented.

Lycan
01-21-2006, 03:37 PM
interesting :think:
:goodpost:

So Confused
01-21-2006, 05:19 PM
It might not

be rocket science, but it was something that eluded me for many years. My first step and changing my social life was

pheromones. Six years after that, I stumbled on what I described above - it took a long time to figure it out.



It might not be rocket science, but one thing is clear, not many guys do it. The technique is very simple and

takes 100x less effort and worry than what I was doing before. I think there are more rocket scientists in this

world that natural guys who know what to do. I certainly didn't.

This is GREAT news. I've never had

to approach gals before, as all through school everyone knew everyone else and their business from classes and

talking with others. Since I've graduated it's gotten much harder, as with my size I tend to be an intimidator,

regardless of how much I'm smiling. Plus, I get so nervous myself that I often forget to do the little things like

smiling and maintaining eye contact that could induce a gal to come up to me. Seeing you write that you were never

good at it before really gives me hope that someday I'll be able to carry myself the right way too. :goodpost:

luxveritas
02-13-2006, 01:00 PM
I downloaded a few audio

lectures by david deAngelo. This guy rocks. Some of the best advice that I have ever heard. Eventhough I already

knew most of this stuff it helped to solidify my theories by hearing them said by someone else.

I also got a few

lectures by ross jefferies his work is nowhere near as logical or worthwhile.

phersurf
02-13-2006, 05:05 PM
I downloaded a

few audio lectures by david deAngelo. This guy rocks. Some of the best advice that I have ever heard. Eventhough I

already knew most of this stuff it helped to solidify my theories by hearing them said by someone else.

I

also got a few lectures by ross jefferies his work is nowhere near as logical or worthwhile.

Yep. The

seduction comunity outgrew RJ. His stuff is definitely manipulative, where David D is much more about inner game.

THe way you convey your inner game is by not being impressed by her looks, not being needy, being able to walk away,

and just teasing the hell out of her (in a funny way).

Do not comlpliment her on her looks, compliment her on

something less tangible or an acomplishment. The hotter she is, the less a compliment on her looks will work. If she

is more of a girl-next-door type, complimenting her looks can be affective.

Try to put yourself in the

position of a hot girl. They get hit on everywhere they go at all hours. If you come up to her and tell how

beautiful she is (she's probably heard it 10 times the hour before you approached her) you will automatically be

filed in her "average boring chump file". Hot women get the unfair label of being bitches when they are only trying

to mange their time.

Here's an example of a recent interchange I had with a woman (5'2", mid 30's, 100

lbs, very cute) at a cafe in LA at about 6 PM on a Saturday,

She was standing in line to get food to go, I

thought she might have been at the end of the coffee line. I smiled and made strong eye contact, she smiled and

broke eye contact first.

Me: Are you in the coffee line?

Her: No, I'm waiting for food to

go.

Me: I've never eaten here before, what's good?

Her: The "whatever" is really good!

Me:

Great! I'll be sitting over there (pointing to a table) I can't wait to try it.

Her: (laughing)

Me:

(shaking my head in pitty) Taking food home on a Saturday night, how sad.

Her: (laughing again even harder)

No! I'm meeting some friends later! Honestly!

Me: You're trying reeally hard to convince me. These

friends, they're not "The Desperate Houswifes" by any chance, are they?

Her: You're terrible! (getting her

food) Here, let me give you my email address, my name is "her name".

Me: Nice meeting you. (shaking her hand

but holding it just a little longer than is confortable).

We've been out 2 times and been quite physical.

She makes more money than I do, but I'm the one that has the status in the interaction.

jamesdeanmartin
02-13-2006, 05:23 PM
Speed

seduction - I think thats Ross Jefferies - I have his stuff here somewhere,... If not him then it's David DeAngelo,

I have all the stuff from these guys ~ it really boils down to one damn thing,... DROP THE SHY & GO SAY HI.




Quote me on that, Pongo out

Just got done reading Neil Straus' "The Game" which covers his life

as one of the top pick up artists. He dropped the following information casually but it kind of reasonated with me

pretty strongly:

Ross Jeffries is a balding, 44 yo guy who still lives with his parents (and when Neil picked

him up for a night of "sarging" Ross' mom tried to show him baby pictures).

How many leaders of fortune 500

companies are taking advice from this guy who still lives with his parents, is ridiculously insecure (as covered

throughout the book) and hasn't been able to actually keep a relationship despite his supposed success as a pick-up

artist.

The book is a fascinating read and there are a handful of things to pull from it. The most

fascinating part is the counterculture aspects of males who were bullied and broken in the "real world" and have now

moved on to the internet finding each other.

A couple more bullet points:
(1) He condemns "the game" in

the end, and says "there is no game" to end the book. He expressed that he is having troubles in his relationship

now and how much hard it is work at a relationship.
(2) As hard as they tried to bring in new women they mainly

accomplished just surrounding themselves with more "lost" males.
(3) The people who are drawn to this are

individuals prone to join any type of cult.
(4) A lot of their "game" is kinda pointless. I've been at enough

bars to know that some of their field reports are ridiculous, especially the Paris Hilton one, where what they took

as genuine interest was just a female being polite or being nice to the weird guy so you can make fun of him five

minutes later with your friends.
(5) Pulling a lot of their "game" will get your face smashed in if you are in

the wrong area. LA, NY etc. is one thing. Middle America is something totally different. The fakeness of LA and the

prevalance of superficial chit chat is a good conduit for their "game" but that doesn't mean it will work in texas.

Also the women in LA may be much more receptive to this kind of stuff. If I pulled any of this shit with a girl in

law school she'd skewer me. (ok, well that is actually the voice of experience there...)

I think the book is

great and definitely worth reading. I just wouldn't take the stuff said in there word for word. I know it has an

appeal to individual's who may not have had a lot of success or experience in general around women but it is much

more of a starting point than a finish line.

What I tend to do, and pheromones definitely help, is completely

not hit on a beautiful woman. Go up, sit by her, treat her likes on of the boys. Meanwhile, hopefully the pheromones

are arousing her and she has this cognitive disconnect that she is attracted to you, but you aren't beeing

subservient trying to hit on her or make her like you. She now wants you to like her and now she's interested. I'm

always surrounded by attractive women in bars because this is generally what I use. The game of "no game." If she's

not interested in you in that way, great you have a hot female friend now you can use for social validation with

other women. I hate the all-or-nothing approach many people take. I stockpile female friends so whenever I am in a

bar I have hot girls to go to even if they are specifically just friends.

Of course, I don't believe in the

LJBF thing either. The pick up artist guys act like this is the worst thing that can ever happen and guys talk about

it all the time. My two major relationships, both over 3 years, started after getting the LJBF talk initially. Sure

it won't happen all the time, but there are ways to get out of the LJBF zone.

take care,
JDM

phersurf
02-14-2006, 11:20 AM
What

I tend to do, and pheromones definitely help, is completely not hit on a beautiful woman. Go up, sit by her, treat

her likes on of the boys. Meanwhile, hopefully the pheromones are arousing her and she has this cognitive disconnect

that she is attracted to you, but you aren't beeing subservient trying to hit on her or make her like you. She now

wants you to like her and now she's interested. I'm always surrounded by attractive women in bars because this is

generally what I use. The game of "no game." If she's not interested in you in that way, great you have a hot

female friend now you can use for social validation with other women. I hate the all-or-nothing approach many people

take. I stockpile female friends so whenever I am in a bar I have hot girls to go to even if they are specifically

just friends.



First you put down the tactics that the PUAs use (that work only in LA, NY

according to you, I'll tell you an experience I had in Houston if you want), then you tell us what your tactics are

and they're the same. Maybe not the same techiques, but you're communicating the same things.

You "go and

sit by her and treat her like one of the boys". Dude, this is David Deangelo 101!

"but you aren't beeing

subservient trying to hit on her or make her like you" again, David D, Style and others. They all teach not to try

to make a woman like you. Almost all their tactics are aimed at exactly this outcome. "I'm hot, why is this guy so

comfortable around my and not trying to hit on me?" Your'e subcomunicating that you're the chooser and this an

atractive trait.

"I'm always surrounded by attractive women in bars because this is generally what I use",

"If she's not interested in you in that way, great you have a hot female friend now you can use for social

validation with other women" You've got David Deangelo, Mystery, Style, et al down cold! Congradulations!



You did it on your own! You're a natural. These exact things are what they teach, this is the

"game".


And yes, there are ways to get out of the LJBF zone. All they say is that it's too much trouble,

and there are so many great woman out there, why waste the time. I don't agree, it can be well worth the

trouble.


Unfortunately many of us didn't get this stuff naturally (you probably think to your self,

"common guys, this stuff is obvious"). We were brought up to pursue woman, tell them how beautiful they are, give

them gifts, take them to expensive restaurants.

slick
02-15-2006, 12:30 PM
There is also direct game which is

getting very popular in the community, where you do the opposite to mystery and others where you just go up to the

girl and say i like you and i want to meet you, at the end of the day i guess what style suits you best. The best

thing david taught me was all the wuss traits i had which i have eleminated most of them.

Rbt
02-17-2006, 03:40 PM
First you put down

the tactics that the PUAs use (that work only in LA, NY according to you, I'll tell you an experience I had in

Houston if you want), then you tell us what your tactics are and they're the same. Maybe not the same techiques,

but you're communicating the same things.

You "go and sit by her and treat her like one of the boys". Dude,

this is David Deangelo 101!

"but you aren't beeing subservient trying to hit on her or make her like you"

again, David D, Style and others. They all teach not to try to make a woman like you. Almost all their tactics are

aimed at exactly this outcome. "I'm hot, why is this guy so comfortable around my and not trying to hit on me?"

Your'e subcomunicating that you're the chooser and this an atractive trait.

"I'm always surrounded by

attractive women in bars because this is generally what I use", "If she's not interested in you in that way, great

you have a hot female friend now you can use for social validation with other women" You've got David Deangelo,

Mystery, Style, et al down cold! Congradulations!

You did it on your own! You're a natural. These exact things

are what they teach, this is the "game".


And yes, there are ways to get out of the LJBF zone. All they say is

that it's too much trouble, and there are so many great woman out there, why waste the time. I don't agree, it can

be well worth the trouble.


Unfortunately many of us didn't get this stuff naturally (you probably think to

your self, "common guys, this stuff is obvious"). We were brought up to pursue woman, tell them how beautiful they

are, give them gifts, take them to expensive restaurants.

I read his post over a couple of times and got

the impression it was RJ and NS and "The Game" he was putting down the most, not DD.

I take most of that stuff

with a large grain of salt anyway. I have tried to look over them all (just now getting around to checking out

Mystery). I do think that DD's early, basic stuff is pretty much "old hat" to me, but mostly true. But then again

I've had 30+ years to learn it, and to some of the "youngsters" it may be a revelation.

What I've seen of

DD's later "advanced" stuff does get a little over the top to me, but then again, he is a marketer intent on making

some money and selling to a specific receptive audience, and he tends to aim his pitch at that market.

And of

course, in the end, it depends on what the "customer" wants, and what works for them.
Like the man said, if nothing

else DD's stuff pointed out some of what he felt were his weak spots. He acted on them and was satisfied with the

results. That alone sounds good to me.

I often read over all the "help" books in almost any subject I have an

interest in, and consider each point made by the author. Some apply, some don't (some are downright ridiculous).

But in doing the consideration, I may find a grain of truth or at least a new direction to explore.

No one

"system" will probably work, just like there is usually no *one* right answer to any question or soulution to a

situation. As long as the material gets you to thinking, then it's done something positive. Whether you choose a

"right" or a "wrong" path based on that info is part of what and who you are, and part of the learning/personal

development process.
:think:


Now look what you've done. I've gone off and become "serious" again... Time

to put on the Puffy Ami Yumi DVD again or something.
:hammer:

a.k.a.
02-18-2006, 11:31 AM
The more I read these posts, the

more I become convinced it’s a question of faith. I believe that we are all sexual animals trying to escape the

bonds of social conditioning. I put my trust in sexual chemistry and the ultimate inadequacy of social norms. I’ve

gotten great milage out of some of the lamest lines you could imagine (“you look familiar”, “I like your tattoo”,

“is this guava fresh”).
The thing is, before I approach a woman, I’m already convinced that we are both hot,

hormone pumping, sexual animals just looking for an excuse to drive each other over the edge. Most of the time I

have no idea what I’m going to say. I just physically put myself into a position where I have to say something and,

somehow, I always do. (I think it’s only natural.) If I start to choke, then that becomes part of the “game” too.

It’s a sign that she’s very hot and I’m not much of a player.
My feeling is that many guys are more

interested in being in control than in hooking up. And that seems to be the kind of guy that pick-up guides appeal

to.
A line that you see in some of the old movies is, “You can’t fight this. It’s bigger than both of us.”


I never actually use this line, but I never even bother unless I believe it in my heart.

jamesdeanmartin
02-18-2006, 06:52 PM
I read his post

over a couple of times and got the impression it was RJ and NS and "The Game" he was putting down the most, not

DD.
:hammer:

I actually wasn't intending to put anyone down really. I was just looking to open

up discussion. When I saw the initial response I just ignored it because I figured he didn't get what I was

saying/what I said didn't come out as I had intended.

I've read a lot of the stuff, its more interesting to

me as an excursion into the sociology of the guys who swear by this as opposed to some sort of divine mathematics

that will get us all laid. Straus' book was fascinating to me and I read it in two days (putting away all reading

for classes). I haven't formed a full opinion on it yet but I have a lot of ideas, most of which were bulletted

above.

I write screenplays on the side, a number of them deal with the bonding rituals and such of the male

in the world we are living in today. (Think Fight Club, Swingers, etc.) I think "The Game" is an excellent companion

to those works. I do feel the book is at times a condemnation of "the game" and the levels to which con men will go

to bilk people out of money (as well as perhaps the absurdity of living with dozens of males under one roof to

somehow "get women", you have to admit there are homoerotic undertones to a lot of it.)

My main reason for

posting is because we get a lot of people around here who seem to have a decent amount of disposable income and a

strong yearning for attention from the opposite sex and I don't want them falling into the trap of thinking this

stuff is mana from heaven (especially when these seminars cost like $2500 a pop). I've seen a number of people

suggest RJ and others through the years around here. I read David DeAngelo's stuff he posts on Askmen.com, I think

most of his stuff is pretty dead on, or at the very least, psychologically speaking what these men need to hear

(myself included).

Anyway, I have very little natural game, but I've been sitting in coffee shops and bars

and cafes for 7 years straight talking to any woman I can meet to learn as much as I can from them. A lot of it

coincides with what DeAngelo and others say. Some of it doesn't. Your mileage will always vary with this

stuff.

In the end though, "game", "pheromones" etc. what I do see time and time again is some guys are

attractive enough to get by with snorts and grunts. A close friend of mine is considered a knockout by female

standards and he bags a bevy of hot girls, meanwhile the rest of my crew could go up to these girls and recite

Shakespeare to them or play every "game" in Straus' or RJ's aresenal and still get nowhere. I guess the secret is

moving on from those girls and finding the ones who will give you an openning.

take care,
JDM

Gegogi
02-19-2006, 12:22 AM
The women who are willing

to laugh and have fun are the best ones, IMO. If they aren't willing to have fun or don't have a sense of humor

I'm gone. They aren't worth the bother.
Although I generally agree with this statement I keep an open

mind, especially if I'm really horny. I've met women who seemmed to have absolutely no sense of humor but, once I

got to know them, I realized they held it inside or merely had an entirely different perspective on life and humor.

That is, they though it odd I found certain things funny and vice versa. A truly sober minded woman is a bore but

those out in left field or holding it in are oft extremely passionate in the sack. I've dated lots of women from

foriegn countries, most of my GFs were FOBs, and other cultures are often reserved and very different as far as

what's funny and how they express it. :rant:

Netghost56
02-19-2006, 01:01 AM
So what it comes down to is:

"You either got it, or you don't." :(

BTW, is there some dictionary that you guys pull all these abbreviations

from? FOB???

gamecity
02-19-2006, 01:05 PM
So what it

comes down to is: "You either got it, or you don't." :(

BTW, is there some dictionary that you guys pull all

these abbreviations from? FOB???

No no no..... if you don't have it, you can learn it. Practice makes

perfect. Noone is born a perfect person.

luxveritas
01-31-2007, 02:08 PM
My God have I come a long way

since starting this thread over a year ago. When I started I was not very confident and thought there must be some

kind of magic secret to attracting women. I am very grateful that I found this forum. It has really expanded my

knowledge and understanding of social interactions. I have learned so many things in this last year of pheromone use

and dating and I am much happier and more confident because of it. Almost all of the techniques listed in the posts

above are great but they cannot be techniques they must be part of who you are.

Things I have learned in the

last year.
It seems impossible to really work on “game” as an academic pursuit. No one can tell you exactly how

to get more women. For me it was an introspective process of figuring out how to present the best side of who I am.

The best reading material I have encountered has been by David DeAngelo. However just reading this material did

nothing for my game. I had to incorporate it into my daily philosophy before it really helped me.

Confusing

women with my words has been my best, most bizarre technique. It is really the only conscience “game” technique I

use. All other techniques just come naturally or seem intuitive. I found that while my behavior told the girls I

liked them, when I used cryptic comments slightly to the contrary, they stayed up late at night thinking about me

which is never a bad thing. I have found that making comments contradictory to my body language and actions works

very well for keeping women confused. Confusion is an emotional reaction and it is good for a woman to associate you

with a non-negative emotional reaction.

Going on many non-date dates has given me much more field experience

and confidence. I never go into them with any expectations or stress. These dates are merely coffee with another

person. If I hit it off then great if not, I still had fun BSing with someone for a while. This has really helped me

with my shyness.

In this last year, I discovered that it was very important to find a responsive audience.

People would describe my personality as a little different and only very specific women really find common ground. I

am very friendly, funny and talkative but I am also geeky so most normal girls I encounter have very little in

common. Most of the girls I have met in the bars are very normal people. They might find me attractive but when we

start talking one of us would become bored very quickly. So, I discovered that finding women that I like was a very

niche market. Using craigslist has been the most effective way to tap into this niche market. Every woman I have met

on craigslist has had a college degree of some sort and a few of them have had a masters degree or higher and for

some reason nearly all of them are vegetarians. Your experience might vary depending on your posting but using an

online service allowed thousands of women to check me out before ever making introductions. This greatly increased

my odds of finding compatible women.

Pheromone use was a great start for me, an attractive 24 year old white

guy with little game, but I have found so many things that were so much more important. When I first received my

pheromones in the mail, I went exclusively to bars to meet women. Whenever I approached any of them I am sure my

body language and vocal tones reeked of desperation and awkwardness. No pheromone can fix your body language. One

year later, I am much happier and more self-confident. Long story short “Game” doesn’t seem important anymore. At

least not as important as being the best you can be and presenting the best side of your personality to the kind of

women you want to attract.

Mtnjim
01-31-2007, 05:19 PM
:goodpost:
COOL!!!
Someone who

"gets it""

Wah Hoo!!:drunk::drunk::cheers:

Netghost56
01-31-2007, 05:41 PM
Well, I've had a steady

girlfriend now for the past 3 months. Been spending so much time with her that I haven't visited any of my old

stomping grounds online.

A year ago I was in the same place I'd been for the previous 5 years- shy, depressed,

and lonely.
Now....:kiss: :lovestruc :cheers:

Holmes
01-31-2007, 08:06 PM
Excellent post, lux. Nice to see

you around.

Likewise, Ghost. Good to see you posting again.

And happy belated, btw.

belgareth
01-31-2007, 08:13 PM
Well, I've

had a steady girlfriend now for the past 3 months. Been spending so much time with her that I haven't visited any

of my old stomping grounds online.

A year ago I was in the same place I'd been for the previous 5 years- shy,

depressed, and lonely.
Now....:kiss: :lovestruc :cheers:
That's great news! I'm really happy to hear

it.

belgareth
01-31-2007, 08:14 PM
:goodpost:
COOL!!!
Someone who "gets it""

Wah Hoo!!:drunk::drunk::cheers:

A rare

event!

DrSmellThis
02-01-2007, 04:19 AM
Lot of good posts, folks.