Help me ask her out

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have a little problem.... same problem.

This is about the gal i was talking about in the topic \"My Attraction+AE Result\". I was finally ready to ask her out but the only time we meet is when i go to their office to fix their computer. So i was there yesterday and all prepared to tell her that she seems nice and that i want to date her but i didn\'t do it. Why? Because her other co-workers took the day off and she\'s so pressured because her boss is all over her shoulders giving commands. But above all these, she still manages to look at me and smile very eagerly although i know she\'s not having a good day. i asked her what\'s the matter and she looked at her boss and rolled her eyes so i just shut up and never bothered her again.

My problem is, now im ready to tell her, how do i? i can\'t just show up there w/o any reason nor call their office and ask for a date. Is it ok to send her a letter? But how do i ask for a date through letter? images/icons/crazy.gif

The only reason im in a hurry is because i want to invite her to a Creed concert on Jan. 16 but i want it to be the 2nd date. So i have to get a date within the 1st week of January.

HELP ME GUYS... PLZ! images/icons/frown.gif
I need a lot of suggestions pls?!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

First off you like Creed so that shows good taste. I think that\'ll help. As for the date ask her out for New Years. It makes sense. Just go on over there and ask her out. Or do it next time you go to fix the computer. Or write her a note. The note seems smarter in this situation. Know what I mean?

I had to take that step recently and it may lead to a date on New Years Eve. Who knows. images/icons/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Jambat! Do u like Creed too? Yeah if i decide to just show up in their office, i might use the dialog: \"I just want to start the New Year by doing one right thing. I\'d like to ask you out for a date.\" .... or something like that. what do u think?

btw, what did u write in the note?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sounds like the perfect cover (new years) i might just do that with some girl i know ask her out for new years in the spirit of the season. Its summer here in australia and its hot and its great weather (ha ha to the northern hemisphere) lol sorry everyone.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks DD,

I\'ve been working with this girl for about 2 yrs. now but as i\'ve said before i only see her at least once a month because of the nature of my work. I never flirted with her it was all pure work but after i used pheromones on her, she started to do things to me that make me attracted to her too. I want her to be looking at my eyes while I\'m asking her out because I wanna see what her reaction will be. Can anyone give me a nice line to say? PLS???

[**DONOTDELETE**]

HEy Red;

Well Creed kicks proverbial ass. And actually you may have missed out on a great opportunity for asking her out. When she was so stressed it would have been a great opening for you \"THE HERO\". Like a hey let me take you out (or whatever your rap is) so you can be stressless etc. Work the situation to your advantage.

TCO

[proteus]

My suggestion FWIW is instead of putting too much pressure on her by asking her out for a \"date\", just ask her sometime when you\'re over there to help her fix the computer if she\'d like to go out to lunch sometime. Way I\'d go about it is when you next go over there as you work on the computer chat with her and then like an off-thought say hey would you like to join me for lunch or something like that. If she\'s interested in you she\'ll say yes. Then get to know her over lunch and take things from there. Used this approach at work in the past and as long as she already knows you, likes/or is interested in you she will say yes and even if it\'s not the same day she will go with you sometime. My problem has always been approaching ladies when I\'m out like in clubs etc. where I don\'t know the lady I\'m interested in and have never seen her before which is why I\'m using pheros.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

TCO,
I was thinking about what u said and I realized i missed one great opportunity. Yeah I could have been the hero and that earns me a lot of points. I\'ll remember that from you coz i know i\'ll be able to use that in the future.

Proteus,
You know what? Ur a clever guy! That\'s lesser pressure on my part and a little different from the other styles too images/icons/smile.gif
I\'ll go there on Monday and try to do that.

[jose]

(smile)\"listen I know you\'re probably busy right now but, I would really like to take you out to dinner and a movie,give me your number and I\'ll call you.\" Once you get the number don\'t have a long conversation on the phone just make the date,be on for exactly three minutes. Then if all goes well on the first date then you can ask her out for the creed concert. She probably has plans for New Year\'s Eve and it will be short notice of you asking her out for that day.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You\'re right Jose, probably she\'s already made plans for the new year\'s.
Dammit, i should have asked her when i was there, now the longer i wait, im having 2nd thoughts again. How do u guys keep ur balls together? images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well for me its easy images/icons/laugh.gif because i usually have a dozen women in the background runnign around trying to get my attention. Giggles etc its really quite itneresting, so i just ask on the quite do they want to get together sometime or make a particular 3 day period when you could get together for a movie coffee something to eat or whatever ( you could ask for straight sex - although in the work enviroment i wouldnt) actually ignore that last bit of advice.

The other thing is fastsedution no theres an idea. Just make it low key and when you meet up and have talked for a while then make youre move.

[jose]

Dude don\'t be afraid, and do it already. I just told you what to say, it gets easier after you say it a few times. See her first thing on Monday(if you can),as long as she doesn\'t give you an excuse about not giving you her number you\'re going to be okay. A woman with high interest level in you won\'t hesitate to give you her number.

Step 1.
Smile say \"thank you\" and then walk away.
Step 2. Call her on Wednesday or Thursday for the date so that you don\'t look desperate.(call after 3 days rule)Don\'t have a long conversation on the phone save it for the date.(exactly 3 minutes) Next thing you know you\'ll be her friend instead of a potential boyfriend.
Step 3. On the date don\'t talk about your ex girlfriends or stupid things you\'ve done in the past. Also don\'t start throwing complements every five minutes about her looks. No talking about sex of any kind it will properly turn her off.
Step 4. Make sure she does most of the talking, try to find everything out about her, family, hobbies,what ever. It will show her your interested in her life and that your listening. Make her laugh if you know any good clean jokes or stories.
Step 5.Don\'t try to make a move until the end of the date, try to kiss her good night. (I personally think your going to chicken out on this one.) A woman will kiss you if you\'re attractive to her, if she pulls away save it for the second date. I\'m not talking about a make out session just a nice kiss on the lips. So here are my tips for a successful first date,after that your on your own.

Remember wear your Pheromones, it will give you a bit of an edge, but don\'t overdose.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: jose ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

jose,

thanks man! big boost! just wondering, have u ever asked a girl and she happened to say that she has a boyfriend? what did u do? were u still able to date her? or if not, how did u back out without feeling embarrassed that u asked?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Uh, you say ...

\"Oh, okay. My bad.\"
And she\'ll say \"It\'s okay, but thanks.\"
And you say, \"So been up?\"

And she\'ll either tell you about her life or go into some mindless chatter, either way it quicky switches from the fact you just asked her out to something else without you looking like a gimp. Check that out. Then they\'ll call you Redcapp a.k.a Big Pimp.

(Okay they probably won\'t call you big pimp but atleast you won\'t look like a goof but I\'m sure she\'d be flattered. images/icons/smile.gif ) Plus if they break up she\'ll know where to find her rebound boyfriend. Which is when you say. \"Uh maybe you should wait awhile, because I don\'t want to be your rebound boyfriend.\"

This makes her want you more because now you\'re just a little out of reach.

See how that works, now aren\'t you all happy I use my powers for good?
images/icons/laugh.gif

[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: jambat ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Lol Jambat! (Big Pimp) images/icons/laugh.gif

Yeah so i have to switch it to another topic right away huh. nice move!
this is how im gonna proceed on monday, since i have no business to be in their office, im planning to call her and tell her to go outside the office where i\'d be standing. then i\'ll tell her i wanna take her out sometime and ask for the number. i don\'t know it just don\'t sound right to me. anybody has another way to do it if you were in my shoes?
or should i ask her first if she has a boyfriend?

[jose]

Don\'t call her see her in person, if she says she has a boyfriend say- \"oh.... I should have guessed, he\'s a very lucky guy.\" \"Well I have to get back to work, I still would like your phone number maybe we can just hang out and just be friends.\" Remember she\'s not married.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m with Jose. You should go in there and do it in person. You\'ll win more points with her that way. Even if she has a boyfriend, she\'ll be flattered that you asked, so there\'s nothing to be embarrassed about. I can be shy when it comes to asking girls out, but I force myself to do it or put myself in the situation where I have to go through with it. I\'ve asked out a girl in a sandwich shop before that was packed with people. One of the guys that worked there later told me that she was really impressed by that. Life\'s too short to let fear of rejection make your decisions for you. Go for it. We\'ll all be cheering you on.

[jose]

I would avoid asking her out in front of a bunch of people if at all possible,that\'s like putting her on the spot. If that situation happens tell her you would like to talk to her privately,and can we go out in the hallway or another office. I would really try to get her along if you can,but it\'s better to meet her at her desk.

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: jose ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

the time is near and im trying to gather some memories that can make me more confident for tomorrow. i remember when i was there about lunch time she came to me with two different kinds of candy bar and she made me choose between the two. i told her what she would choose for me and that i would take it. do you think i have a good chance?

hey guys tell me if the above post is the right way for me to go tomorrow. plz?!

[jose]

I would go up to her office or cubicle and tell her in person instead of calling to tell her to come down in front of the building. As long as there\'s no one hovering around her and she\'s alone. There\'s no use thinking about memories the only way your going to find out is if you ask.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[proteus]

I agree with the above. Don\'t call her out of the building or any stuff like that - just go to where she is and ask her out. And don\'t overthink this either - she knows you a little so just relax. I used to overthink things (I think on one of the seduction advice sites they refer to this as \"paralysis of analysis\" - overthinking till you end up either wimping out or freezing up when you do see her). Just relax, ask her to lunch or dinner or whatever but go with the approach that you feel you can do and just do it. In fact my guess is she probably already knows you are interested in her and if you wait too long she\'ll figure you\'ll never ask and will lose any little interest she has.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

sorry i must have caused confusion. i didn\'t mean to ask her over the phone. what i want to do is go there tomorrow morning but i will call her to ask her to come out for one minute so i can talk to her privately. then i\'ll take everything from there. will this work?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Guys,

I appreciate all your help on this one, im telling you, it could have been a lot easier but im in a new situation right now.

I went to their office pretending I need to upgrade something and I was confident enough that I\'ll be able to go home with that magic numbers in my wallet.

But it didn\'t turn out as I\'ve planned. This is how it went before I went home:

She asked me if I\'m going downtown this New Year\'s Eve for the Peach Drop (Im from Atlanta). I said no im staying with my family. I asked her if she was going and she said yes then I asked her who is she going with (trying to find out if she has a Boyfriend). She said she\'s going with some friends and her friend\'s boyfriend. So there was my chance, I asked her how about your boyfriend?
Her face looked blank for 1 second and looked down then she said,
\"No, she\'s going with her sister to...\" I didn\'t even hear what she said because all I heard was that she has a boyfriend. So I asked again to confirm, I said \"So he\'s not spending the New Year\'s with you tonight?\" She frowned and said \"No...\"
It was freaking cold that time coz we were talking outside and she noticed that I was freezing so I said \"Yup. Its cold I better go.\"

I was frustrated and confused to find out she has a boyfriend. What about all those signs? Are they really signs? And I\'m more
frustrated about myself not being able to make any actions from that point. Im living now in the Woulda-Shoulda-Coulda Land.
Should I have asked for the phone number anyway? I didn\'t want to look like a man who can be used as a substitute boyfriend for the New Year\'s so I didn\'t ask for it and just left without anything else to say.
Do you think she knows what I\'m trying to accomplish?

Where do I go from here?
What should I have done and what should I have not done?

--- I guess I can call myself a Shoulda-Coulda Citizen ---

[proteus]

Big mistake asking about whether or not she has a boyfriend. Others here might disagree but you never ask a girl if she has a boyfriend unless she volunteers that herself. See she may have a boyfriend but is not happy etc. and is looking for someone new but by putting her on the spot and persisting on that line your getting her shield up. If she\'s married it\'s a different situation and I want to know it upfront, but I could care less whether she has a boyfriend or not because ultimately unless she is married it means she still hasn\'t fully committed to this guy so the door is still open. So I never ask a girl about her boyfriend and I think you screwed up here. Not sure what you can do to \"fix\" this as from what you describe her whole attitude seemed to change after you asked this.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Proteus,

I know I screwed up probably you noticed my question \"What should I have not done?\"
That\'s excactly what im so frustrated about. It just came out of my mouth I should have never asked that.

When she frowned and looked like sad, it didn\'t look like she changed her attitude towards me. It looked like she felt sad that she couldn\'t spend time with her boyfriend. I hope somebody can answer my next question, \"Where do I go from here?\" (After I screwed up)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Do u guys think it\'s over for me?
Should I just put an end to it before
I make any further damage?

[oscar]

Redcapp,

She TOLD you where she was going tonight! Get your ass down to the Peach Drop. Maybe you\'ll bump into her, maybe not. Don\'t STALK! If you see her say hello. Smile. Look good. Smell good. Meet her friends. MAYBE, by the end of the night, you\'ll be eating something fuzzy and sweet! Are peaches in season now?

Oscar images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bravo Oscar;

Ditto ditto ditto....

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oscar,

i was not feeling well because of the very cold weather so i was just writing down everything i feel right now into a song. when i read your post, i thought ur right and i jumped out of my bed and called my cousins and told them we need to go to the peach drop. nobody would go with me so i felt sick again. images/icons/frown.gif
i can\'t go there alone because there\'ll be 100,000 people coming and once they drop the peach everyone will hug their partners and kiss, while im sticking out my neck hoping to see this girl.

i never thought this thread would grow, for those who had not followed my last question, its on the 1st page.

\"Is it over for me now that i screwed it?\" Should I stop at this point or is there something else I can do?

[ccbythesea]

Redcapp,

I read and re-read your post about what happened today when you spoke to \"her\". I didn\'t see anywhere that she said she had a boyfriend. Did she tell you this outright? Were you so nervous that you may have misunderstood her?

It seems to me that by asking you if you were going to the Peach Drop she may have had one of two things in mind.....

If you had said you were going maybe HER next question would\'ve been \"with who?\" to try and find out if YOU have a girlfriend (or wife). And maybe if she found out you\'re single she might\'ve asked if you\'d like to join her and her friends.

Maybe her disappointment wasn\'t stemming from the fact that she wasn\'t going to be with her boyfriend. Maybe she was disappointed that you weren\'t going and \"staying home with your family\". IF she doesn\'t know you\'re single then family could mean wife & kids.

Anyway, yes, you screwed up but so what? Here\'s my advice from a woman\'s point of view:

Next time you see her just be honest. Tell her you\'d like to get to know her better over coffee, lunch or something like that. If there\'s some reason she doesn\'t want to do that then she\'ll most probably let you know right then and there and you can move on. I\'d certainly give it one more shot if I were you images/icons/cool.gif

Good luck Redcapp and HAPPY NEW YEAR!! images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks CC! Happy New Year to you too!

Well, she knows I\'m single because she already asked me that once. I mean, I asked her then she asked me back asking when i\'m gonna get married? I answered not anytime soon.

Eventhough she didn\'t say directly that she has a boyfriend, i think that\'s what she meant when I asked her if she\'s coming with her boyfriend and he answered \"No\" and when I asked why, she answered \"He\'s with his sister...\". I think I screwed up because instead of asking about his boyfriend, I should have gone directly to the point. Then if she says she can\'t then at least I know I can move on.

Now I\'m stuck in the Shoulda-Coulda Land. So guys, CC told me that I can still try again. Anybody knows how to fix this screw up that I made? Actually I wanna know if she\'s still at least intrested in me.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Redcapp,
Sorry that I could not have recommended it 2 u sooner, but u should read up on the Players Guide found at Fast Seduction (\"http://www.fast-seduction.com\"). There are a LOT of great tips--and I bet if u had that guide down like the back of your hand--that u would have known what to do in that situation--I guarantee that. But--the past is what it is---the past--dont dwell on it bro, at least u did it images/icons/smile.gif and I do not think that its over--just read the Players Guide in the link that I provided use the pheros and u should be well on your way--so keep an open mind and keep pluggin away--it only gets better. Peace. images/icons/cool.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

ChrisLax - Thanks for that link. I\'ve been going to that site sometimes but I never seen that article about \"Boyfriends\". It testifies what Proteus says about not asking her if she has a boyfriend or not. It says she may or may not have a boyfriend but who cares. Maybe she is ready to dump her for you. That\'s probably why she never mentioned about her boyfriend until I extracted it out from her.

What bothered me is when Ross J. said that if you have extracted that information from her somehow, she might just write you off in her mind.

I know you guys would say that I have to try again and that\'s what i would like to do. I want to know how I can proceed from this point. Do I just tell her that our little talks make me intrested to know her more and just pretend that I never knew she had a boyfriend?

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Redcapp ]

[jose]

Redcapp- There\'s nothing you can do now but move on, she knows that you know she has a boyfriend. If you would have done what I told you you wouldn\'t be in this mess right now. I personally wouldn\'t pursue it but if you really like this girl and just want to be friends. I say get her number and take her out for launch or a cup of coffee, but don\'t expect anything and don\'t get too attached. There is a chance she might dump her boyfriend along the way but that\'s a very slim chance. Chuck this one up to experience and next time be more confident and don\'t think so much, just do it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Redcapp, I\'ve found myself in your position many times but the thing I always try to remember is that I AM THE CATCH, NOT HER. The more you stress about her boyfriend, the more you are making her into the catch instead of yourself. Even if she has a boyfriend, girls will leave a boyfriend if they find someone they think is better. Just show her you are better. Be her friend and let her get to know you and see what she is missing. If she likes what she sees, she\'ll drop the other guy in no time. Remember, you are the catch, not her.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Jose - I know I screwed up big time. My whole plan really was to do what u exactly advised and I was ready but for some reason this big mouth acted like it has a mind of his own. Honestly, while I was saying that phrase asking about his boyfriend, I knew right then and there that it was a big mistake, especially when she looked down for 1 second before answering my question. She really looked sad, I don\'t know if it was because she lost interest in me or because she can\'t spend time with her boyfriend.

But then I thought, instead of me thinking every night about what I should have done or what it could have been, i figured what the heck! Its already screwed up and my only loss now is if I still don\'t find out if she\'s still interested. I already lost and the only gain I can get is if at least I can free my mind out of this by either getting a straight no or a straight yes from her. I\'m still gonna tell her that I wanna know her more and if she turns me down, then i can start moving on and if she still accepts me, I will not expect too much and will not act desperate and I will treat her as if IM THE CATCH and not her.

Whatever happens, this sure was a learning experience and im starting to know how to be a PLAYA like u guys! images/icons/smile.gif
(I just hope she comes with me to the Creed Concert.)

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Redcapp ]

[a.k.a.]

Redcapp,
Please, just RELAX. Clear your head of doubts, schemes, scenarios, expectations... This isn’t about diffusing a bomb or wrestling an alligator. This is about asking a girl out, and it sounds like she’s attracted to you.

Don’t try to anticipate what she’ll say or what she thinks. Just be clear about yourself. You’re attracted to her and you’d like to spend some time getting to know her. This is not a crime. If she freaks out or humiliates you (which she probably won’t) that’s her problem. Just go for it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

hey, just one word of advice think positively so u will go in the situation with a smile and confidence. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It helps to have women acting funny DIHL in the background. This helps to get your date friend etc to see you in a *better light*.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Do u think i can use this line when i meet her again. \"Is it too late for me to know you better?\"

[DA]

Red...I agree with the rest of the people who posted. You\'re obsessing a little too much on this one girl, rehearsing the \"proper\" thing to say, etc. I think most guys, including me, will do that when we\'re really attracted to someone. It\'s ironic, but when we put a woman on a pedestal like that, she\'ll be less attracted to us...instead, she\'ll be attracted to some guy who sees her as nobody special, because he\'s able to be comfortable and relaxed around her.

Just to give you an idea...I went for lunch the other day with a 20 y.o. female friend. She\'s a waitress and attractive...somehow, the conversation turned to dating, and she was talking about some of the male customers who ask her out. One regular had brought her flowers and candy as a xmas present. He\'s obviously head over heels for her and makes every effort to be seated in her section, etc. I\'m sure he spends hours thinking about strategy and the \"right thing\" to say, and then analyses the encounter afterward, wondering if she\'s sending positive signals. She thinks he\'s \"sweet\" but said she\'d never go out with him, he\'s not her type. But she\'s still friendly, because it\'s her job and she\'s not a mean person...

The really ironic thing is that this attractive, sexy girl isn\'t MY type, so I\'m completely comfortable with her.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Fellow phero warriors, sorry if i still keep posting on this thread i know we\'re trying to keep the board free from non-phero related posts. But since this problem of mine started because of pheromones, i think you are the only people i can get help from. (Is that a valid excuse images/icons/tongue.gif )

I just don\'t wanna give up without getting a straight no or yes from her so what i did was this:
I called their office this afternoon and spoke to her and told her that i need to go back there on monday for follow-up on their computer problem (of course i made it up). I wanted to see how she\'ll react if i speak to her again in a different manner after 4 days of not hearing from me. Whenever i call their office, I usually talk to her politely and with a happy tone of voice but this time, I toned my voice real down and spoke to her professionally. So this is how the conversation went:
****************************
(She answered the phone)
ME: Hello Mitch. This is Redcapp, how are you doing today?
HER: (In her usual hypnotizing voice) Hi! Im doing fine, how about you?
ME: I\'m doing good. I need to come back there on Monday to see if the terminals are stable, will your office be open til 5?
HER: Oh yeah, we\'re gonna be here.
ME: Oh ok, I\'ll be there after lunch. Thanks a lot.
HER: (She paused then giggled like she wasn\'t expecting me to end the conversation that quick). Ahhh, are you alright?
ME: (Trying to read the tone of her voice, it seemed like a sincerely worried question) Oh yeah! Why did you ask?
HER: You sound mad.
ME: Really? I\'m sorry I didn\'t mean to do that, I\'m just in a hurry so I can call and confirm all my appointments on Monday.
HER: Oh i thought you\'re mad at something. I\'ll see you Monday then.
ME: Bye.
********************************

What do you think guys? Is she still interested? I hope you keep your patience with me. Don\'t worry, its about to end. Whether in favor of me or not, at least i still have pheromones to move on. images/icons/laugh.gif

[proteus]

Hey, I\'ve been where you are so I understand why you want to see if you can still get with her. My advice before reading this post would have been what others above have said, which is to just let it go and move on. However, since you already called her and will see her on Monday as I gather from your post, the best thing would be to just go in, be friendly and DON\'T ask her out or anything. The fact that for whatever reason she said you sounded mad says she did sense you were being cool (aka \" professional \" as you put it to her) towards her and if you still want to get with her, being cold to her won\'t do it. Just be your usual self as you always are with her, friendly but don\'t push anything for now. As for whether she\'s interested in you - who cares??? MAKE her interested in you by being friendly, listening to her, showing her that you have a lot of good qualities. Once y\'all are back to interacting the way you used to, then maybe ask her out to lunch, but don\'t do it now or you\'ll definitely blow it. One other thing - the fact that you did call her and she said what she said tells me she\'s definitely clued into the fact that you are interested in her - she figured you were acting cool because she told you she has a bf so again to repeat, if you want to get with her don\'t act too standoffish, but don\'t pursue anything for now either. If Monday\'s goes okay, then wait a week or so then ask her out to lunch during one of your during one of your lunch hours, and then take it from there. But don\'t ask her out on a \"date\" and don\'t ask her about her bf anymore. This is just my two cents and while I think there a is still a slight chance that things might work out, if you can, your best bet would be to just completely leave things be for now - if you can\'t then try what I suggested above or try what someone else might suggest. Good luck!! images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Uh, dude. Either move on and call it a day or just ask her out point blank. If you know she has a man then don\'t bother. If you\'re not sure then ask. It goes a little something like this...

\"Hi, I just wanted to clarify, something. I\'m very interested in maybe seeing you on a non work basis are you involved.\"

She\'ll say yes or no. If \"no\" then you\'re in if \"yes\" then you say...

\"Oh, okay. I just wanted to make sure. I would\'ve kicked myself if I\'d let the chance slip away.\"

My goodness man this isn\'t rocket science. You\'re either going to get turned down or not. Life goes on and there\'s millions of manless women roaming around the American continent. (Did I spell that right)?

I went out with a chick on New Years. it was nice but I\'m finding she is somewhat strange and over analyzes stuff. I like her but wow! I say only to say she may be cute and all but realize she may not be all you expect. You could be in all this agony for nothing.

You see a chick you like if she\'s sending signals and she\'s not involved you drop a flow to her. And there\'s nothing to be this scared about. Nervousness is fine but this a bit much for a chick you only see every once in awhile when you go to fix her computer. And if you can\'t find a reason to go don\'t, especially now after the New Year. (Before you were on a deadline).

Just next time you have to go over there, go and be polite, be positive and be yourself.

The next idea is maybe finding other girls. I mean, they inhabit the earth like insects. There\'s millions of them out there. No they don\'t all like or want you but I\'m sure some of them wouldn\'t mind cozying up to you. Many people have that infatuation thing were they get stuck on one person. I\'ve learned early on that will kick you in the a$$ all the time.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Its not rocket science for sure but if you put a utility guy into an office to be the new manager, that seems to blow everything that he\'s known before. See, my whole life i lived in another country and i never really had a hardtime pursuing after girls because they just come to me and made the signals \"clear\" and then i make my move from there. Girls from my country will not bother to even talk to a stranger if she\'s not interested but once they talk to you about anything, then you\'re on. When i got here in America, i thought love life would be much easier coz as far as i\'ve known, women here are more open and agressive. Then I\'ve learned that all women here can be so friendly to you and yet they don\'t mean anything. I\'ve been fooled a couple of times and now it\'s confusing me because this one girl seems to be extra nice to me all of a sudden (since i started using pheros), and i don\'t want to read the messages wrong. She has a boyfriend as far as i\'m concerned but that is not confirmed. She didn\'t even mention him until after i asked (which i will never do again). So my goal now is to leave the \'boyfriend\' thought behind and I\'ll just let her know i\'m curious about her and whatever her response maybe, i\'ll take it from there. Whether to move on or move in, i\'ll consider myself a winner coz at least i\'ve learned a lot from you guys and will never make the same mistakes again. images/icons/wink.gif

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Redcapp ]

[jose]

Now you\'re making sense Jambat instead of those long posts that you sometimes write. images/icons/laugh.gif

Go in there Monday with a mission she goes to the bathroom like everyone else, she\'s just normal. Don\'t over analyze what she does or says your just putting more pressure on yourself.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey!!!! I\'d like to thank u guys! Everybody who replied to my post, now im back on track!
Yes, you guessed it right. I got the number! Yup, i got the cellphone number. Now i realize you\'re right, it\'s not that hard at all. But i did mine in a different manner because of the situation around the office. They\'re so busy and the co-workers are around us talking to me too (bec. of the pheros probably) but this girl still is attentive to me, in fact she didn\'t care talking to me even if she\'s busy. She would stop whatever she\'s doing then face me and talk to me like there\'s nothing else to do.

So i got her to conversate with me excitingly before i pulled the trigger. We were talking about the first time we met about 2 yrs. ago and i told her that she was nice to me from day 1. Then she said she\'s really the kind of person who doesn\'t talk to someone who she don\'t know. Then i replied by saying \"Why do you talk to me then, do you know me?\" Then she paused and inhaled and her eyes got bigger as well as her smile then replied \"Yes I know you.\" I said, \"Professionally yes, but do you know me personally?\"

So the conversation went really good then she began complaining about her boss being a bitch and that she\'s really mad. I told her that she has a good way of handling her emotions coz it doesn\'t show at all. I projected a face of someone who is really amazed and curious about her personality. Then this co-worker of hers butted in and I lost my momentum. So what i did was, I wrote a short note on a piece of paper saying this: \"You\'re an interesting person. I\'m curious about you.\" She smiled upon reading it then she whispered \"I\'m not really that interesting.\" (I remembered what Jambat said about girls are sometimes not what i expected at all.)

So i wrote another line saing this: \"I\'d like to see you sometime outside of work. What\'s your phone number?\" Now as she was reading it, she is really smiling big then without hesitation picked up a pen and wrote down her number. She said her cellphone is the only way i can reach her. So i stayed calm and cool then i pretended that my job\'s done (i just made up this job, remember?) Then i said bye to everyone and left the office cool and calm.

Now its her turn to wonder if i\'ll ever call and its her turn to be thinking everynight while i can start sitting down, relaxing and enjoying the fruit of my labor. I\'m planning to call her on Sunday night and ask her out for Monday night. Then hopefully I can get her to come with me on Wednesday night for the CREED Concert. You think its a good plan? Or should I ask her before weekend like for Thursday night? Coz I really like the Creed concert to be the 2nd date.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

WhoooHooooo....RedCappp...You got her digits (Cell Number)....Okay it was allot easier than you had thought, was it not?

But congrats....and let us know how the date goes..

(Giving you a cyber high five)

TCO

[proteus]

Excellent!! Good for you Redcapp. You seem to have gone about this pretty good today so continue to trust your instincts - she definitely is interested so just take it from there. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Good show Red. Creed concert. Good choice. Heck I missed a Creed concert recently and wanted to kick myself. But you\'re going and with a hot chick. I guess I\'ll live through you for awhile. images/icons/wink.gif

I hope this works out for you both. And I\'m glad I could be of help to you. Remember what I said about power, responsibility, truth and honor. And congrats.

[a.k.a.]

That’s great, Redcapp! I knew you could do it.
I think it’s a good idea to get together sometime before the concert too, especially since she likes to talk and concerts aren’t conducive to that sort of thing.
Many guys say make the girl wait before calling. But if it was me I’d call soon (the direct approach seems to be working for you) and set up something she would consider casual fun for much later in the week, or the weekend. (In other words, don\'t let her wait with doubts that she did the right thing. Strike while the iron is hot and THEN let her wait with the anticipation of something positive.)
In the final analysis, however, I’m with proteus. Trust your instincts. Everybody’s got their own style that works best for them.

[jose]

Now listen to me very carefully so that you don\'t blow this. Only use the phone number for dates, don\'t start long conversations on the phone save it for later. Call her on Wednesday for a Friday or a Saturday night so you can get together. Remember to wear your pheromones and dress nice. Just don\'t expect anything, play it cool. That\'s all I have to say for now.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I owe it all to you guys for opening my mind and making me believe that there is nothing to be scared of and that i don\'t have to over-analyze things.

Jose, I\'ve been reading Doc Love\'s advices and he strongly believes that going out on weekends should be a no-no for us in the first few dates so that the girl doesn\'t get the impression that they are the priority and we\'re so excited to be with them. He wants men to act like we\'re doing something else on weekends and if we keep asking them out only on weekdays, it raises the girl\'s interest level by making them ask themselves why they don\'t get to go out with us on weekends. Now in my case, I need to make a 1st date before Jan. 16 (Wed.) because of that Creed concert. I like Doc Love\'s idea of not going out on weekends but I guess I have no choice. How about instead of Friday night, just make it Thursday night? But that would break the 3-day rule right? Well, what the heck! Forget all the rules. Men make the rules! (just kidding ladies)

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Redcapp ]

[jose]

I think you\'re allowed to bend the rules a little here, I mean you\'ve known this girl for what two years? Like I said before don\'t expect anything she has a boyfriend,but if you get the sense she want you to make a move go for it! I do agree with Doc. Love\'s articles, but I wouldn\'t follow every thing he recommends. Guys Have to Make Their own rules.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Careful here Red, if she has a boyfriend, you should make sure you know where they stand. No one needs to come out of this hurt. If she\'s being dishonest with him she\'ll be that way with you. Keep this in mind. But otherwise go out, have a great time. Maybe the the other guy is whack, and you\'ll end up with her. But remember to be honest and let her know what you want and all. (Don\'t hand this to her all up front) but remember have a goal (to get this girl obviously) and you don\'t want that goal sidetracked.

Another thing, if you see that she\'s into her boyfriend and she\'s stringing you along as the guyfriend, get out of that situation. You don\'t want to be the carry on lugguage, you want to be the main man.

-The Bat

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dudes,

I called her to hang-out with me tomorrow night. I got turned down. images/icons/laugh.gif I knew she has to go to class every weeknights but I still asked anyway to see how she will handle it. But the funny thing is, she sounded different than the usual jolly hypnotizing voice, this time she seemed to be very careful with what she\'s saying, like tensed maybe but she still answers my questions with complete sentences and told me how crazy it was today in their office.

Three \'potential\' reasons why she turned down: Maybe her accounting class is a real important class to her, OR... She doesn\'t want to look easy-to-get, OR... She\'s not really interested at all. I don\'t really feel frustrated at all (im surprised actually) because i\'m getting the hang of acting like a \'Big Pimp\' and it comes out naturally as I do it. Now the way I look at it with this girl, i\'m not really that serious at all but i just want to know her real personality outside of work. So what I\'m gonna do (based on Doc Love\'s system), is call her on Sunday night and tell her about the Creed Concert on Wednesday. You know what, it\'s her birthday on the 19th (Saturday) and she kept reminding me that last week, so I\'m gonna put it like I wanna take her to the concert as my birthday treat for her, and that I\'m doing her a favor so if she turns down again, its her loss not mine. She will have class on Wednesday for sure but I wanna see how she\'ll respond to my invitation. images/icons/cool.gif

Worst case scenario is if she turns me down again. But i don\'t really think about it as a \'worst case\' because it\'s still in my favor. I\'m gonna flush her number down the toilet and say to myself, \"Too bad, you missed out on something good.\" Pretty mean huh? But that\'s what \'Big Pimpin\' is all about. And at least, I\'m out of the woulda-coulda land and I can sleep comfortably at night thinking that I did what I should but that\'s just the way it is. AND I DIDN\'T LOOK LIKE A WIMP - That\'s what makes me a winner. images/icons/wink.gif

Thanks to all of you for opening my mind.

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Redcapp ]

[a.k.a.]

You told her you’d like to see her sometime and asked for her number. She gave it to you. So she either wants to see you but other things take priority (which I think is fair enough, unless you’ve got a big fat ego and want girls to drop everything just for you) or she wants to see how BAD you want to see her (which I think is ingenuine and a waste of your time).

If it was me, I’d save the concert for somebody that’s already proven them self — even if it’s a cousin or a friend or some girl that’s just done you a big favor, even if you’re not hot for her. No point in writing this girl off (maybe give her an other chance to hang out when she has no classes), but I don’t see how you owe her any kind of birthday present.

In other words, don\'t be a dick-head but don\'t be a sucker either.

Just my opinion on the finer points. I think you\'ve gone over the biggest hurdle just great.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

a.k.a.-

so many girls give out their phone numbers just to make the guys stop asking and go away. yes this girl may be a little interested based on how i described her actions to me but one thing that i don\'t want her to sense is my eagerness to go out with her. i\'ve been fooled a couple of times already by girls who i think were so interested in me but when i made a mistake of coming in too hard too soon, it blew all my chances. that\'s why i started to ask the forum members to help me ask this girl out because i wanted to make sure i\'m doing everything right. I learned that if i slowly back-off after getting a \"busy\" excuse two times, this will make her think that she\'s losing me so she needs to do something if she is somehow interested in me. But if she doesn\'t do anything, then she doesn\'t want anything to do with me, and at the same time I was able to save myself before she can even give me some big-time whopping and embarrassment. I think it\'s called \"protecting our heart\" as quoted by Doc Love.

So do you guys think I should not ask her for the concert?

[proteus]

I agree 100% with everything a.k.a said - save the concert tickets for someone else and do not ask her.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

She *does* have a boyfriend already, you know...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

a.k.a., proteus -

i haven\'t asked her out yet but i\'m gonna call her on Sunday night --- but of course I won\'t if you could explain to me why i shouldn\'t. it seems like everybody is agreeing with each other\'s idea so maybe my way of thinking is way too amateur compared to yours. images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The bottom line is move on. Treat her as you always have. Don\'t call and find another chick. She\'ll call you or ask you out if she wants to go out. I mean she can\'t get upset because she gave you her number and you never called because, you did call.

Dude you got great ammo in the form of Creed tickets. Some other chick would be happy to o and I bet when it over she\'ll ask about the concert. Face it Red she just may not be interested. You got the number, call her sparingly if it all and move on.

By the way, if she\'s ever having problems with her boyfriend and comes to you, don\'t try to solve them. Simply say \'I\'m sorry to hear that.\" or something like that. Trust me on this one.

-The Bat

[Whitehall]

There are 3 BILLION females on the face of this green earth. So you got shot down by 0.000000033% of the female population - that leaves 99.99999997% to go. Aren\'t big numbers comforting?

If you give up after ONE rejection - you\'ll deserve precious little sympathy from me or anyone else.

Seriously, the name of the game is prospecting - finding a woman who wants what you\'ve got to give. Unless you look like Quesamodo or attend school in some mostly guy Hell Hole like Purdue, there will be other chances. Get out there and look! Pheromones will increase your chances of turning an initial contact into hot closure but if YOU don\'t put yourself out where women can find you (and maybe reject you), nothing will make it happen for you.

Guys with BALLS get to use them.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thank you guys! But I\'m not afraid to move on. Actually what I wanted to do is if I have to move on or not yet. Yes of course I got balls and I use them (although sometimes not the proper way). In fact I got this number from a young lady who was shopping at Wal-Mart but I don\'t want to call her yet til after a week. Jambat, I haven\'t told her about the concert yet so she can\'t be asking me how the concert was. I know I should not chase her too much that\'s why if I can\'t get her to come with me to the concert, I will never bother her again but will still act the same (as her old friend). I don\'t care about taking somebody else to the concert, I can do that without any remorse but I just want to give it a chance by asking her and if she doesn\'t like it, well fine, then at least I know I can move on. Remember during the early part of this thread when I almost gave up without even asking for her number, but i gave it one more shot and she gave me her number. That\'s what I want to do this time, give it again one last chance and either way, I can never be the loser because I did what i\'m supposed to do images/icons/smile.gif And I will never wonder to myself what it could have been.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My advice is if anyone in this situation is to if she isnt really following up like someone else said put her at the bottom of your list stay nice just chase her less or leave her completley as a friend, when they play hard to get etc for a long time ( a little while is ok but if it continues or if you are being led around the bush so to speak go elsewhere and follow up on someone that will respond you only have a limited time here so go after what will work) otherwise you could be chasing and always just being put in the *friend* category.

Just my two cents worth just dont get used everyone.

[a.k.a.]

Redcapp,
I like your attitude. You don’t have to do what we tell you. Everyone’s just expressing their opinion and you’re the only expert with regards to this particular situation.

My opinions aren’t about “what’s the best way to get this girl?” or “how does one get to be a professional player?”. I’m thinking about “how does a guy establish a happy sex life in today’s world?”, and I’ll be the first to admit that I’m far from being an expert on this.

It just seems to me there should be an equivalence of desire. If two people desire each other a lot, that’s great. If they desire each other a little, that’s still pretty good. But if one person desires the other considerably less than the other, there’s going to be considerable dissatisfaction.

If this girl doesn’t want to skip class just to hang out with you, maybe she will skip class to be treated to a concert. But is that a good thing? The question only you can answer is, would you skip class to hang out with her? If not, then it’s probably a good thing she declined because you’d probably end up looking for other “conquests” after a while. If you would skip class for her, but she wouldn’t skip class for you, then there’s already an unequal relationship. Maybe she’s nice and won’t take advantage of it, but why set yourself up?

The romantic approach, that Hollywood’s always pitching, is to constantly up the ante until the girl breaks down, goes out with you, discovers you were meant for each other, and you both live happily ever after. If she doesn’t want a concert, buy flowers. If that doesn’t work serenade her. Etc.
If that’s your personality go for it. Like you say, there’s nothing to lose.

My personality is more easy going. I would never ask a girl to skip class for me in the first place — unless we’re already very close and I’ve got some kind of emergency. But If I asked her to hang out and she said “no”, I’d try something more casual rather than more exciting (like meeting for coffee after work).

[marv14yag]

Hey, redcap...when you wear pheromones..or you are attractive...women will find you attractive, however, that doesn\'t mean that they\'ll go out with you, if they don\'t know you, or etc...if she has a boyfriend, and she doesn\'t want to break up with him, she may still be sending you signals because she finds you attractive HOWEVER! that doesn\'t mean she\'ll go out with you

By the way....I don\'t know what pheromones you are getting, but..maybe you should try primal instinct, as it\'s stronger (a drop behind each ear...more won\'t do anything more..it\'s the concentration that matters) or, you can get the androsteNONE from the chemistry kit..and do not mix it, use it as it is, as it is it is 2 times stronger than primal instinct (which is the strongest you can get), that\'s 8 times a stronger pheromone than your body produces, not too shaby eiigh??
My advice, is to not jump to qestions, ie, go slower, like, get to know her better (plus, her hanging around you, and detecting the pheromones, will make you more attractive to her)

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Marv - That\'s a good piece of info images/icons/smile.gif My brain suddenly went \"oh, that\'s right\" when you said that women can find a guy very attractive but doesn\'t necessarily mean she will go out with you. See, the harder part is always for us guys, of course if i sense that she likes me, and i like her too, then i\'ll make a move. But if she really has no desires to go out, then we\'re in trouble coz we\'re lost. We can\'t even tell if they are just playing hard to get and worse, they don\'t tell you exactly that they\'re not interested. By the way, I used PI on her once and she acted scared to be around me. When I started to use AE+Attraction on her, she acted very comfortable with me and started telling me some personal stuff. She even started to ask me personal questions too. Then I got hooked and lost my sense of reality so I started this thread. These folks in the forum really helped me a lot.

A.K.A. - you\'re right. it always has to be equal interest level. as for me, since i was in highschool, i always skipped school for a girl. i did that too with my girlfriend in college, we would always skip school and go somewhere private. as for this girl, i was really thinking if she goes to the concert with me, maybe she just wants to take advantage of it but will not go with me anywhere else. So this is what i\'m gonna do. She told me she doesn\'t have classes on Monday night. I\'ll try to ask her to meet after work. Maybe go get some fastfood, that way it doesn\'t appear so romantic, instead just regular and casual outing. Then maybe I can mention the concert to her while we\'re talking.

See, you people has always been helpful

images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s the spirit, RedCap. Funny thing is,
once you are actually feeling you don\'t give
a damn, the chick gets interested in you...

I always say... women, can\'t live with or
without them!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s right BadGrass! In the end, it\'s still men who rules! They may be leading us on during the first part but they can\'t continue without men around. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Uhh...I beg to differ? I, for one, certainly do not need a man in my life. images/icons/laugh.gif One of the perks of being a lesbian. images/icons/smile.gif

Anyway, I\'ve been following this thread. Seems that she\'s just real busy.

You\'re in the right track, keep it cool, keep it easy.
But don\'t put her in the \'bad guy\' spot just because she hasn\'t been available, she IS busy, and her life doesn\'t revolve around you - a friend from work.

Sometimes when we\'re pursuing someone we read too much into things. Like, overanalyze everything that she says or does.

One thing I\'ve always believed, when we try to analyze too much we end up reading things that aren\'t there.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

LOL! Titaniumoxide, u rule! Yup, I\'m just gonna treat her like before all these happened, and will act as if none of these happened. And really sometimes end up reading things that aren\'t there but not anymore. Hey, could it be that she herself is wearing pheros for women? Cuz, all of a sudden, I got attracted to her big time! She maybe a member of this forum, who knows! images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey.

I just thought you deserve to know what happened since you were all willing to help me, i just don\'t want to leave this one hanging.

So I called Sunday night, around 5:30 pm., her cellphone rang 5 times then the voicemail message came on. I never left a message, I thought maybe if she\'s waiting for my call, then she\'ll have to keep her phone in her pocket and not let any call pass by. And besides, if she has voicemail, then she must have caller ID too. So either she didn\'t answer the phone intentionally or she doesn\'t have a signal that time. But I figured, what the heck! I\'ll just let this one go, I realized that this isn\'t going anywhere anyway. See, she has full-time job, she goes to class almost every night, and not to mention she has a boyfriend. So what will I be? A filler? LOL images/icons/laugh.gif
I\'ll just leave it like this and in case she does something to get the attention back to her, I\'ll take it from there. But i\'m not expecting it. Meanwhile, I\'m gonna practice being a playa with the aresenals I got from Bruce. images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Just think about it for a moment... best things in life come to you in spite of your efforts, in the least thought moment.

As John Lennon puts it: \"Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans\".

Buddhists think that the harder you try, the farther away you will be from it. Of course this is applicable only to fulfillment, love, meditation and such things.

These things might sound elusive, but they are true, to some extent.

Personally my own way is to work every day on myself, but not to have too many expectations out of life. Try to keep a fresh state of mind.

I think, the bottom line is... just be yourself, and do the things that make you feel happy and fulfilled.


Regards

titaniumoxide, I have a question for you... are there \"roles\" in lesbians? I mean, in male-to-male homo relationships, there is an active member, and a passive one. They are both capable of being active, but most of the time the passive is just that, passive.

[proteus]

Well, the point is you tried Redcapp, and whether or not something \"develops\" in the future with her or not, hopefully you learnt something from this. I\'ll tell you I used to have pretty so-so luck (meaning for every success I had quite a few rejections) approaching ladies, and determined to change this and did two things - first thing was I read a lot on the web and found some particularly helpful stuff at this site:
<A HREF=\"http://www.pickupguide.com/layguide/\" TARGET=_blank>
pickup guide</A>- check it out. Lotsa good info there. and then I also began using pheros fairly recently. This combination has had pretty damn good results for me, although I\'m by no means a \"player/pickup artist\" and would never want to be images/icons/smile.gif . Point is I figured I had to learn what I was doing wrong, make some adjustments and learn from the failures and I\'m still doing this but I can tell you it\'s been worth the time and effort. It\'s been interesting reading your efforts at pursuing this lady and do keep us posted if anything else happens images/icons/smile.gif

P.S. If ladies only knew the stuff we go through just to get with them hey?? images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

BadGrass,

There\'s a lot of misunderstanding about gay relationships, for a good reason. There are a lot of stereotypes on us, and that makes our relationships sound/seem a lot more exotic than it actually is.

A homosexual relationship is just that : a Relationship between two people. There isn\'t a rule in it, or anything like that. Now there might be couples with butch/femme or dominant/submissive energy, but that really depends on their own personality.
If I were a dominant person dating a somewhat passive/submissive person, my relationship would seem to be an active/passive one.

But I think most of the time people are just romanticizing the whole idea too much. A relationship is a relationship.

Anyhoo, EVERYONE Else :

It\'s actually kinda amusing to me, what you said about if only women know what you guys go through just to get together with them.

I honestly didn\'t think you guys talk this much, especially about such stuff.

And I thought WE overanalyze everything. images/icons/smile.gif

[proteus]

Titaniumoxide, with all the testosterone raging through a guy\'s body, most guys are constantly thinking about ladies so I think we are just as guilty on this overanalysis as you are images/icons/smile.gif. This phero board, newsgroups such as alt.seduction.fast are just some places where this is behavior is more visible. Ultimately I guess the point is to figure out what a woman wants which is an impossible task I\'ve come to think. I\'ve always thought that the quote from the movie JFK should really be rephrased as follows \" women are a puzzle, wrapped up in a riddle, inside an enigma \" images/icons/smile.gif Anyways, makes life interesting so.. images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

One last question b4 this thread dies, remember I told u b4 that she kept reminding me about her birthday? Well, its this coming saturday. So I don\'t know if its ok to call her on Friday just to greet her. I think its so unethical if I don\'t greet her just because I didn\'t get a date with her right? And I also told her that I am not 4getting her birthday.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, Redcapp if I were you, and was really interested, I would send flowers to her, but do not call her. Then wait and see how she reacts. I f she calls you, either she is very polite or she is really interested in you.

What do other people in this forum think?

titaniumoxide:

&gt;It\'s actually kinda amusing to me, what you said about if only women know what you guys
&gt;go through just to get together with them.

I have never said so. What I said was, that I truly believe I cannot understand the female mind images/icons/crazy.gif so I used the saying... \"women, I can\'t live with or without them\".


My grandmother had a very funny phrase: \"...women that do not have good luck with men, do not know how lucky they actually are...\"

But my grandaddy would reply: \"you can never trust an animal that bleeds 5 days in a row, once a month and doesn\'t die\"
(please, ladies, no offense, it is only a joke images/icons/smile.gif ).

What I could infere, though, is that you are surprised to find actually thinking men, who are sensitive and intelligent and do analize their actions? images/icons/laugh.gif (no offense guys, just another joke images/icons/frown.gif ).

Yes, my question about female homosexuality is naive, but that is because I am straight and never had such inclinations. But still am curious to know. This is because I do respect all beliefs, creeds and races, so the more one knows about it, the better you know how to show respect.

[proteus]

Okay, no offense intended by what I\'m about to say images/icons/smile.gif : Redcapp I think you oughta think about the advise some of the other forum members gave and just let it go for now. You tried, now let her make an effort to get in contact with you and quit thinking of reasons to call her. You don\'t owe her a call for her b-day just because you told her you would remember it. See the more you are nice and giving of yourself with nothing in return the more you will get nowhere - and sending flowers to her would be a bad idea (no offense meant again images/icons/smile.gif )

[Nutt]

now I don’t know what the situation is socially in your scene, but hares my $0.02 ( well, £0.02 images/icons/laugh.gif)...


If you want to give her one last chance, then appear in the office and pretend to do something, if you can avoid calling first and surprise her so much the better, assuming she’s not likely to be busy.
Probably best to do it as close to the date as possible, but try not to miss it.

Pretend to nearly miss her, then notice her and wish her happy birthday for XXXday and Ask her if she’s going out anywhere, not asking her out but simply gauging the mood. If she’s going out with her BF somewhere romantic your out of luck, but if she’s going to a bar or something similar, and she\'s interested ( or even considers you a personal friend) there’s a good chance she\'ll ask you if you can come. (if she’s going with a group of friend then you could invite yourself but Cooley, \"sounds fun, I might turn up if you guys don’t mind? I\'m not sure if I’m gonna be free yet though.\" If possible rush off before you have time to elaborate. Say its your long lost cousins 19 and a half year Birthday drinking contest or some other disposable event you should go to but isn’t a big deal.

Whether you should actually go or not is debatable, and her reaction should help. If you do and the BF is there, then oh well, say Hi and do some hello happy Bday kino on her, then proceed to plan 2, busting out the pheros and launching a attack on her friends ( hey, HB\'s usually have at least a couple of free HB friends images/icons/laugh.gif ) If he’s not there then you have a green light on her. (Humm, BF not there on her birthday night? this chick deserves better, he probably doesn’t exist or she\'s gonna get drunk and forget about him ( on purpose! images/icons/tongue.gif ).


anyway, a lot of that depends on her being the partying type, your ages etc: As always, its what I\'d do, and not by any means a perfect plan. As everyone is saying, there are plenty more fish in the sea ( chicks in the bar? ) but hey, I admit to having a \'pet chick\' who I have a hangup with thats difficult to act on for various reasons images/icons/laugh.gif just dont let her get in the way of the others if you get a chance with them. Shes also not so close to you in work that you cant risk loesing her forever (i.e. until she forgets about it, which she would, but that ain\'t gonna happen. pheros and the attitude your developing make you 150% efficent over most AFC\'s ! images/icons/laugh.gif )

as said before, flowers are a no no, one way or another. take a step back and look at her, yeah shes very to yuo, attractive, but a lot of that is because she\'s your type, features that appeal to you etc: shes not THAT stunning, and she\'s not gonna have as many guys as your subconscious would like to think lining up after her. men like diffrent types, and usualy women go for the type that would like them, its a genetic thing to encourage ( within parameters ) outbreeding (e.g. diffrent immune systems etc: )

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Looks like flowers are out of the question by a vast majority!

I guess you have to move on, then.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'ve already asked her before what her plans are for her birthday. She said she\'s going somewhere with her friends, maybe drink. She never mentions her boyfriend in any of our conversations. The only time she said it was when I asked her about him. She didn\'t even elaborated further about his boyfriend. She never invited me either but I don\'t care, I don\'t really wanna be there.

I don\'t like the idea of giving flowers too, because the last time I did it to a girl, her mom tried to call me and diss me, but she wasn\'t able to reach me though, so she had to tell me through other people.

Well, I was just thinking that maybe if I let her know that I remember her birthday, but won\'t call her at any other circumstances, maybe she will sense that I\'m still interested but not desperate. Then let her do the next move in case she wants a chapter 2 in the story. But if you think its not a good idea to call her anymore, then I won\'t images/icons/laugh.gif

[Whitehall]

Reddcapp,

You\'re obsessing! Go lift weights, dig a ditch, get into a bar fight, whatever, just make it MANLY.

Here\'s one way this might well play out...

You send flowers. She thinks \"Silly smuck!\", she calls you to politely say thank you, you beg and plead to see her, she dains to meet you, you beg and plead some more, she lets you have some to shut you up. You have a Pavlovian response to this intermittant reward scheme and redouble your efforts. She finds you \"easy\" and when she runs out of MEN she\'s really attracted to, lets you suck up to her (which you do, big time.) Eventually, you get married because no one else has asked her.

Once married, she treats you like the WORMBOY you\'ve promised her you\'d be; YOU wash the dishes and clean the bathroom, YOU run to the drugstore in the middle of the night to buy her tampons, YOU hold her purse in public while she spends your paycheck, YOU get to hold the vibrator, YOU let her have those weekly nights out with the \"girls.\"

Sound appealing? Well, you\'re setting yourself up for exactly this sort of relationship. If you can\'t show the strength of character to leave her alone and move on, you don\'t deserve any better.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Whitehall ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok bro, I maybe think that you can get this girl. But you do need to get a little more experience w/ confidence. So do go lift weights (but do this for yourself only not for girls) and let yourself become a better sex symbol and a better flirt and communicator. Try watching the Other Half on TV. Its a morning show. Maybe that will help a little but the most important things are how to be more friendly/talkative and sexy/talkative, two things that you will have to work on so you don\'t miss any oportunities anymore. I think if she didn\'t mention her boyfriend when she talks to you in situations like when you asked her about hey birthday, is a big sign. Because if she didn\'t like you, she could have said \"yea Im going to so, so place w/ my boyfriend\". But she didn\'t. This I think says something. But bro you will have to change something and all I think it is that you have to change is the way you think you should act around this girl. After you do the weights and get intouch w/ the sex-symbol in you you will start to move differently, talk differently, think differently when around women (for instance, \"Wow she\'s beautiful and great, I think I can become her boyfriend.\"
I used to be like you bro, but do get in touch w/ your own sex symbol because it depends very little on looks. This is because women can date tall or short guys, black or white (or Latin) guys, or ugly or good-looking so it is really up to her emotions so remember nothing is holding her back so nothing should be holding you back. So go ahead and become the best person you can. Fix this part of your life. I\'m not telling you to do this all in one day either, take your time and enjoy your journey to a better you. Do at least one thing a day, that makes you happy too. One thing a day that makes you genuinely happy. One of these should be the exercising and weight lifting because you should do these for your self. Maybe subscribe to men\'s fitness I read that magazine and its pretty cool.
Oh and thats right don\'t send her flowers to her bday, unless you feel you are very good friends at least. And if you have had at least one date w/ her because if not the flowers will not ask her out for you neither will they maker here for in love w/ you and that is exactly what you are trying to do by sending her the flowers-- more importantly this is what your feeling. The flowers are inanimate objects. They can not do this for you.-------This should not be what your are feeling. You should be feeling confidence confidence in yourself and confidence in your self to create the same feeling that you have for her in her. This all comes from yourself and thats why you should take care of yourself first to fix your life.
sincerely
DaleSalsa

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Dalesalsa ]

[a.k.a.]

Redcapp,
Whitehall painted a good picture of the worst case scenario. Here’s my impression of the best case scenario. (Maybe you can figure out where you stand in between the two.)

You’re the cute, clever guy that’s handy and reliable and always fixes things. Not to mention you kind of turn her on and make her feel good talking to you. Seems like you’re interested in her, and — even if she has a boyfriend — it never hurts to have someone interested in you. (A girl never knows when she might need something fixed.)

You asked her out a couple of times. Maybe she wouldn’t mind at some other time when she didn’t have class, or her boyfriend wouldn’t get mad, or something; but she had to politely turn you down for now. Then she doesn’t hear from you for a while. Her birthday rolls around and still no word from you. Maybe she wonders if you’re angry, (Of course your not angry. Why would you be angry?) or if you forgot (Must have slipped your mind. You don’t know how it could have happened. Maybe ‘cause you were still pumped from the concert. Who’d you go with? Oh “just a friend”.)

Eventually something will need to get fixed. You’ll see her again, in your usual cute, clever, pheromone laced way. You’ll be friendly and courteous... Maybe you’ll let an insignificant compliment slip through your lips “There you go. All fixed. Hmmm... cute dress. OK, see you later.”

She’ll think. “Hey why isn’t he hanging around trying to chat me up? He didn\'t seem angry, overworked, or in a bad mood. Maybe I justt need to show a little more interest next time.”

Meanwhile — if you’re not already involved with someone else — you can post your experience on the forum and we’ll give you about a dozen different ideas on how to deal with it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Its funny some of y\'all are starting to think that I\'m the obsessed, overweight slob, who doesn\'t have a life all because of my questions I post in this thread! images/icons/laugh.gif Well actually, I started to fix my life already since last year, I did that by using pheros and I did intense workout and strict diet and I am in the best shape of my life right now. That is probably why she showed interest to me. See we knew each other for 2 yrs, seeing at least once a month, but she never acted like this with me. She never saw me for about 3 straight months, and when she saw me, I was the new \"ME\", better shape and equipped with pheros. She showed noticeable interest to me and I just didn\'t know how to react to it the right way. That\'s why I turned to you guys, but it doesn\'t mean I\'m obsessed. And it wasn\'t my idea to send her flowers either, I know that\'s a NO-NO based on my past experiences.

I like a.k.a.\'s idea and I guess everybody else agrees with it. Yup I think all I have to do is stop pursuing for now, forget her birthday, forget about asking her out, continue to stay friendly and calm, maybe give one insignificant complement then stay away, and let her do the thinking. Very nice! images/icons/wink.gif

Hey dudes! About the Creed concert, I posted another thread about it. Check it out!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR> You send flowers. She thinks \"Silly smuck!\", she calls you to politely say thank you, you beg and plead to see her, she dains to meet you, you beg and plead some more, she lets you have some to shut you up. You have a Pavlovian response to this intermittant reward scheme and redouble your efforts. She finds you \"easy\" and when she runs out of MEN she\'s really attracted to, lets you suck up to her (which you do, big time.) Eventually, you get married because no one else has asked her.

Once married, she treats you like the WORMBOY you\'ve promised her you\'d be; YOU wash the dishes and clean the bathroom, YOU run to the drugstore in the middle of the night to buy her tampons, YOU hold her purse in public while she spends your paycheck, YOU get to hold the vibrator, YOU let her have those weekly nights out with the \"girls.\"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whitehall, with all due respect, this is macho BS!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

damn glad your doing alright man. I was starting to worry, but you got it figured out bro. Don\'t worry, there\'s no need to stress it. (man is this a reggea song or what, somebody drop a beat on some steel drum haha images/icons/cool.gif )
good luck

[Whitehall]

Dear Mr. Bad_Grass,

I\'m afraid that your \"political correctness\" is getting in the way of your perception of reality. Or perhaps, you are just young and inexperienced and have only television to go on. The scenario I painted is real and it\'s is common. Neither person in the couple I described would be happy with the relationship.

This is not to say that the other extreme is any more desirable - \"macho\" over-dominance is just as destructive of happiness. However, I don\'t see that in Reddcap\'s future with this particular female given the behavior he has reported so far.

What works best are the time-tested roles of male leadership and female support with a female-centric homelife. Biology, anthropology, almost all religous traditions - all recognize male dominance and female proceptivity. Mutual attraction, respect, and interaction as peers, albeit with differing roles, is the sound basis for a relationship.

Of course, you, Mr. Bad-Grass, are free to be just as pussy-whipped as you chose to be.

[jose]

I agree with a.k.a. don\'t even acknowledge her birthday don\'t call her,Let her think what she did wrong. She\'s probably waiting for you to get her a gift or a phone call. Meanwhile continue to look for girls that want to spend time with you.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

titaniumoxide, was I at an extreme? I think not. I cannot agree more with what you say. I think respect goes both ways. I actually like sharing duties/activities with the people I love, and I actually enjoy holding the dildo for them!!! images/icons/smile.gif

Seriously, I guess that respect, starts with self respect. I mean, I do not feel ashamed when I wash the dishes, or cook.

Whitehall, I am 37 y/o.

[Whitehall]

Relationships are two way streets. That IS the point. My warning was that, by the guy being too much the supplicant, he\'s setting a dangerous precedent that might well lead to the perverse outcome I described. Yes, I painted a graphic picture of courtship gone bad - but it is a realistic one that happens all too often - deny it if you will, for whatever personal reason. Calling it \"Macho BS\" is a misreading and a provocation. Had a female Forum member asked for advice about how to better grovel for a male\'s sexual attentions, I would have offered an equally severe scenario about male abuse as a warning. Neither scenario is recommended nor advocated - both extremes are to be avoided.

BTW, in English, he\'s called \"Ovid\" - my translation has...

\"but lavish fine words on some young girl\'s profile
And sooner or later she\'ll lavish herself as a fee,
An ample reward for your labors...\"

I like your translation better.

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Whitehall ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

WhiteHall, Bad_Grass,

I think you are looking at this scenario in an extreme point of view.

I\'ve seen a lot of very happy couples where the relationship doesn\'t have to be role-based.
Equal relationship IS real, you know.

What\'s wrong with having the guy washing the dishes every now and then? What\'s wrong with guys letting their girls having \'girls night out\'s?
After all, in this age, most females work too, so they contribute their paycheck to the household.

If the girls can work AND wash dishes, I can\'t imagine that being too hard to do for guys. And, guys ALWAYS have \'guys night out\'s too you know, football nights, anyone? \'Hanging out with the buddies\', anyone?

However, I\'m not suggesting that the guy should be so whipped that he\'s too submissive.
All I\'m saying is there should be equality, and as long as both parties are sharing equal roles, yes I think guys that sometimes cook are sexy.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Whitehall, I think the beauty of human beings is that we are all different. A very old saying points out that things that do not bend, simply break.

Then cultural differences play big time here. Sending a bouquet here in Latin America, is no big deal.

Do not misundertand my point of view, I do not want to provoque, hurt, or insult anyone.

I read a lot of Buddhist literature, and they keep saying, that being humble is actually a \"virtue\". Now here is a different scenario, since we are talking about the woman heart.

Ovid says, that in the bottom of a woman\'s heart is the need to \"surrender\". To feel take over.

Was not Ovid the Jeffries BC?

[Whitehall]

Be it resolved:

1) Groveling for sex by either gender is distasteful and counter-productive.

2) Dignity and mutual respect is the basis of a sucessful relationship.

3) Guys who can cook are sexy.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Okay, that\'s funny. images/icons/laugh.gif

I agree though.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I say phero bomb the ones that drag you around never letting you get to close (the leash anyone) OD get the good mixes jambat something that will wake em up hit em hard then walk away be the one they never had just make it good, hey its good for the ego then go find someone who will be the woman you want get with her (be nice) but make sure she doesnt treat you like shit either cause those ones are just needing to be beaten over the head or they have the attitude that they should use all men because they are weak shit anyway (even if they are perfect) or if you do get with em, fuck their brains out (sounding really egotistical will upset most females (dont care anyway) just dont get em pregnant give me a good time then if they float away to someone else move on safe in the knowledge you did it you were good enough to get through to the thick headed user of a woman.

That should get some comments lol images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Insider tips everyone to do with this and the getting used post, if she is hanging on for you and you are getting her hot and horny by holding off be safe in the knowledge she is holding other guys off till you come to her, so that by holding off sometiems waiting cause women will hardly ever move first (call it nature or laziness) anyway she is getting frustrated so you are doign some mental wear and tear even if she is doing the same to you, just a bit of a comfort to some who may miss out.

[marv14yag]

I agree with Donald Duck...You need to stop screwing around....OD on some mones....anyon UP for some pure none from the kit! He he he!

She\'s just a big bitch....leave her alone, if she want\'s to play around she can F*CK OFF....

I\'ve had my problems with girls like that myself, the young ones think they can get ANYONE they want....a year or two later, and than what? They don\'t have one! Those bitches!

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

As far as anything goes if shes fluffing as i call it stuffing around being silly leading you on etc, either leave her completley alone (dotn get nasty, just spend less time with her and more time with someone else instead) or OD on the mones nol rone or none and just run amok and get attention or hers show her that you aint shit lol, cause she just wants a man anyway with strong pheromones so just supply what she wants. Or learn NLP and play mind games with her. That could be good to but be nice it can be done that way with spectactular results.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well... i still don\'t think she\'s a bitch at all. I mean, she\'s been nice to me and she really hasn\'t done anything real bad for me to just put her behind me. See, I have only asked her once and it turned out that she was busy. Maybe she just really was. Then the 2nd time i called, I got an answering machine. Was it enough reason for me to just leave her alone? Although, I still believe that if she really was interested, she should have made a counter-offer if she was busy right? But what if she\'s too naive to do that? I really have a feeling that she\'s not the player type of girl. She seems so inexperienced with this whole dating game. But I don\'t have any remorse guys, I\'m happy with the decision i\'ve made, i\'ve not called her since that answering machine thing, i never called her on her birthday, and i haven\'t heard from her since. I think i\'m having more fun this way images/icons/wink.gif

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Redcapp ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don\'t mean to be off topic, but this is an unreal amount of posts with out the system going south (knock knock) I guess the sys admin had some wheaties...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This really took off weve covered everything, but looks like the sytem can cope with all these postings and if not bruce will just start up a new forum area.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Redcapp, I think it is ok to let things cool off, but if you change your mind let us know!!! (I really want to know where this story ends).

[marv14yag]

Oh, I know it all too well with these \'younger girls\'....They may not be \'playing you\', but they still will, I don\'t know, they want to play around with you, they think they\'re better than you, even if they aren\'t playin around

That\'s why I like the none thing. It may not make it easier for conversation, but you\'ll get to the point, and if they want what you do, you\'re fine.

Bart